Damascene Ores

_Skai_ - Raging Tide

So it has come to my attention after obtaining Rank 8 recast for ~3 months now that the main material at the moment for reshaping that seems a bit improbable to obtain is the Damascene Ore. For those who don't know what Damascene Ores are for, they're the main material to use for "reshaping" recasted items, similar to how you reforge a Nirvana item with Uncanny Crystals and Rapture Crystals after 2nd casting them. Ever since I obtained my first Rank 8 recast piece, I've been on the lookout ~daily for any ores that happen to be on sale or in the market.

And to this day, well over 3 months of daily searching (up to 3-4 hours a day sometimes), I've only been able to obtain one piece of it. And you need 3 of them to reshape once. Not only does this apply to armor, but to weapons as well. And to be frank, the supply is almost non-existent to the point where even if I'm willing to pay 25m per ore, no one has any to sell. At least that's how bad it is on Raging Tides.

There is the obvious question of "Why don't you just go farm it with your faction?". While that is a very true statement, here's a few things some people might not know:

1.) Damascene Ores are only dropped by the bosses in the 5th-9th trial, meaning the first 4 trials will not have any. And even then it's a chance to drop them.
2.) The chests that spawn in the 5th-9th trial after the boss is dead also have a small (11%) chance to obtain 6 Damascene Ores.
3.) The ores that drop from the bosses are event-bound, meaning if the material isn't open, it will disappear upon logout or leaving the faction base. Opening the event-bound Damascene Ore Pack will bind them to a character, meaning they can't be traded.

Knowing all of this, very, very few tradable Damascene Ores are introduced into the game. Not only this, but the few that do are mostly bound to a faction. Now this shouldn't be a problem if the faction does trials constantly and consistently right?

Wrong. I am in one of the top factions on Raging Tides, full of capable, friendly, and strong players who do trials daily. We have it all set up so at least 1-2 trials are done a day. But we have over 175 players in our faction. Splitting that small amount of mats over 175 players, or many of them that need the Damascene ores, is impossible unless literally years are spent doing trials.

I'm not a person used to making posts like these, but I do notice scarcity like this after a while. People want to farm their R8 recast, but some mats just take improbable amounts of time to make it worthwhile. Three ores per reshape per armor or weapon piece is just too much with the amount that's being introduced to the game.

Not only that, but not all factions have a faction base. Not all factions have the head count and power to do trials 5-9. But one thing that did bring attention to my eye is this thread, which focuses on the NPC "Aurora Agent".

Now on the 4th post you can see the GM Genotypist make a post about the NPC. I know for obvious reasons why it's not a good idea to implement such a NPC to PWI. Sure it would make CSing a very tempting thing to do and would bring forth a lot of money to PWI, but it would utterly destroy the PWI economy even further than it has already. Even our fellow GM stated that in the post. They realize the state of the economy on most servers.

But what I want to ask is, is there any way to make these a bit more probable to obtain? Something like altering the NPC such that it doesn't reward such a flow of Nirvana Crystals or flyers or whatnot? It's easy to go farming to reforge Nirvana gear, but it's next to impossible (on a time rate) to farm Damascene Ores to reshape. It's not about the cost of anything, it's just the supply that I notice that seems to be the problem.

I hope you all read the whole post, and that some GM would shed light upon this topic. Rank 8 recast has been out for quite a while, and obtaining only one Damascene Ore via non-faction over the course of 3 months of daily searching is just crazy to think about.

-Skai

T_i_m - Dreamweaver

If you do enough trials you can trade your warrior seal for some.

_Skai_ - Raging Tide

T_i_m - Dreamweaver wrote: »

If you do enough trials you can trade your warrior seal for some.

Then there's the other option that seems a bit improbable. It requires 40 Warrior Seals to make just one Damascene. And you get one warrior seal per trial completed/attended. That's 40 trials per Damascene ore for oneself.

Even with a blooming faction like the one I'm in, which does trials daily, that's roughly .66 to 1.33 months just to obtain one ore. And as I stressed in my original post, that'll be roughly 2 to 4 months just to reforge one piece of rank 8 recast. And don't even get me started on the percentages of recasting attributes.

That's just not what I think PWI intended. Not to mention I can't do trials every day due to work reasons.

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary

_Skai_ - Raging Tide wrote: »

Then there's the other option that seems a bit improbable. It requires 40 Warrior Seals to make just one Damascene. And you get one warrior seal per trial completed/attended. That's 40 trials per Damascene ore for oneself.

Even with a blooming faction like the one I'm in, which does trials daily, that's roughly .75 to 1.33 months just to obtain one ore. And as I stressed in my original post, that'll be roughly 2.25 to 4 months just to reforge one piece of rank 8 recast. And don't even get me started on the percentages of recasting attributes.

That's just not what I think PWI intended.

Eh.

This gear, with the right attributes, is quite powerful. Having to wait a little for it... I don't really see the problem with it.

On the other hand, I can't even DO trials because the 4 factions I'm in either don't do them (one of them), or do them while I'm working (the other three). >_>

Traz - Dreamweaver

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary wrote: »

Eh.

This gear, with the right attributes, is quite powerful. Having to wait a little for it... I don't really see the problem with it.

On the other hand, I can't even DO trials because the 4 factions I'm in either don't do them (one of them), or do them while I'm working (the other three). >_>

it's 1 in 23 re-rolls to get one -int. If it takes you 2 months to get 3 damascene ore that's 46 months or nearly 4 years.... wait .. a little LOLERZ

_Skai_ - Raging Tide

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary wrote: »

Eh.

This gear, with the right attributes, is quite powerful. Having to wait a little for it... I don't really see the problem with it.

On the other hand, I can't even DO trials because the 4 factions I'm in either don't do them (one of them), or do them while I'm working (the other three). >_>

With the right attributes is correct, but the chances of getting the right attributes are minuscule, if you've seen the PWDatabase numbers. You either get really lucky, or just keep reshaping.

And I just don't see how anyone would farm through a whole year of daily trials for 365 days just to get 12-24 Damascenes to most likely fail in 4-8 reshape attempts. And your last statement is another point of what I'm also trying to emphasize.

Traz - Dreamweaver wrote: »

it's 1 in 23 re-rolls to get one -int. If it takes you 2 months to get 3 damascene ore that's 46 months or nearly 4 years.... wait .. a little LOLERZ

I've only been playing this game for a lil over 2 years. I can't imagine farming for 4 more years just to maybe get -int on one of my pieces.

Traz - Dreamweaver

_Skai_ - Raging Tide wrote: »

With the right attributes is correct, but the chances of getting the right attributes are minuscule, if you've seen the PWDatabase numbers. You either get really lucky, or just keep reshaping.

And I just don't see how anyone would farm through a whole year of daily trials for 365 days just to get 12-24 Damascenes to most likely fail in 4-8 reshape attempts. And your last statement is another point of what I'm also trying to emphasize.



I've only been playing this game for a lil over 2 years. I can't imagine farming for 4 more years just to maybe get -int on one of my pieces.

Right now the market is to disproportional. People that get the ore save them for themselves so there is no overflow to sell. Once people get the items they need, they stop doing trials so that curves the market for a major lack of supply with huge demand. I see 3-4 people shouting a day to buy damascene ore. This has been going on for a few weeks now and it's the same people.

_Skai_ - Raging Tide

Traz - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Right now the market is to disproportional. People that get the ore save them for themselves so there is no overflow to sell. Once people get the items they need, they stop doing trials so that curves the market for a major lack of supply with huge demand. I see 3-4 people shouting a day to buy damascene ore. This has been going on for a few weeks now and it's the same people.

I've been one of the very few that WC often trying to buy some Damascenes. What you say is definitely what seems to be happening. In my gut I just have that feeling that didn't plan to make these ores like so. Even Hapatizon Whetstones are more common than Damascenes, and they're only used for honing, which is done after one is satisfied with the stats on their reforged armor/weapon. It's strange.

SashaGray - Heavens Tear

_Skai_ - Raging Tide wrote: »

3.) The ores that drop from the bosses are event-bound, meaning if the material isn't open, it will disappear upon logout or leaving the faction base. Opening the event-bound Damascene Ore Pack will bind them to a character, meaning they can't be traded.

Boss drops are neither character bound, nor will they disappear upon logout/leaving instance. They are only character bound once you open them, I suspect someone is lying to you

Bellefleurs - Raging Tide

_Skai_ - Raging Tide wrote: »

I've been one of the very few that WC often trying to buy some Damascenes. What you say is definitely what seems to be happening. In my gut I just have that feeling that didn't plan to make these ores like so. Even Hapatizon Whetstones are more common than Damascenes, and they're only used for honing, which is done after one is satisfied with the stats on their reforged armor/weapon. It's strange.

I could not love you any more than i do right now Skai. I've felt this way for 3 months now... since we all know im stuck with THIS. Shoot I'm even putting off getting the rest of my r9 armor to finish my bow. b:cry

Valirah - Sanctuary

SashaGray - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Boss drops are neither character bound, nor will they disappear upon logout/leaving instance. They are only character bound once you open them, I suspect someone is lying to you

Slight bit of confusion. OP is referring to the pouches which can be found inside Faction Treasure Chests which appear after killing the later bosses. These pouches contain several "scene only" mats, which must be opened (and hence bound) prior to leaving the base or they go poof.

Olbaze - Sanctuary

Looks like someone's getting a bit desperate for that 5.0 R9 +12.

SashaGray - Heavens Tear

Valirah - Sanctuary wrote: »

Slight bit of confusion. OP is referring to the pouches which can be found inside Faction Treasure Chests which appear after killing the later bosses. These pouches contain several "scene only" mats, which must be opened (and hence bound) prior to leaving the base or they go poof.

Also not true.

The pouches in chests, when opened either inside or outside the instance, will turn into several non-bound packs that when opened inside or outside the instance will then grant the bound crafting material.

I was running the bank for my faction's trial runs. The faction chest item that yields six damascene ores was traded to the bank alt outside of the base, opened on the bank alt, yielding 6 single ore bags, and from there were traded to othere players.

Nniotora - Lost City

_Skai_ - Raging Tide wrote: »

While that is a very true statement, here's a few things some people might not know:

1.) Damascene Ores are only dropped by the bosses in the 5th-9th trial, meaning the first 4 trials will not have any. And even then it's a chance to drop them.
2.) The chests that spawn in the 5th-9th trial after the boss is dead also have a small (11%) chance to obtain 6 Damascene Ores.
3.) The ores that drop from the bosses are event-bound, meaning if the material isn't open, it will disappear upon logout or leaving the faction base. Opening the event-bound Damascene Ore Pack will bind them to a character, meaning they can't be traded.

-Skai

1. not true Damascene only drop in 5th 6th and 7th 8th and 9th drops Hapatizon
2. true but these will be bound to a faction member
3. you mixed up chest and boss drops.Boss drops are not bound therefor sellable Chest on the otherhand you need to open otherwise they dissapear if you leave base so you have to open them

Traz - Dreamweaver

SashaGray - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Also not true.

The pouches in chests, when opened either inside or outside the instance, will turn into several non-bound packs that when opened inside or outside the instance will then grant the bound crafting material.

I was running the bank for my faction's trial runs. The faction chest item that yields six damascene ores was traded to the bank alt outside of the base, opened on the bank alt, yielding 6 single ore bags, and from there were traded to othere players.

And if all the damascene ores are only given out to faction mats for the next 3 years with no overflow to be sold, how are people not in the top 3-4 factions on server going to be able to re-roll?

This is skai's main point and also mine. The r8 system is not done very well.

Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »

Looks like someone's getting a bit desperate for that 5.0 R9 +12.

I've had my plate since November, I've seen 5-6 total sold on my server. Desperate? No. Do I think this system is way out of proportion? Yes.

To put it into more of perspective to something everyone knows:

It's like people spend 250 uncanny to get a 2nd stage nirvy armor, but making it 50 raptures to re-roll that same piece of armor and making the max stat of 10 3x harder to get.

SashaGray - Heavens Tear

Traz - Dreamweaver wrote: »

And if all the damascene ores are only given out to faction mats for the next 3 years with no overflow to be sold, how are people not in the top 3-4 factions on server going to be able to re-roll?

This is skai's main point and also mine. The r8 system is not done very well.

I agree the drop rates are terrible, my point was that none of the drop or faction chest mats are bound untill the person holding them opens them for the faction chest they would have to.open them twice for them to be bound, and none of the recast mats disappear when you leave the instance or base, and whomever is saying they are/do is deceiving others for their own gain.

Traz - Dreamweaver

SashaGray - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I agree the drop rates are terrible, my point was that none of the drop or faction chest mats are bound untill the person holding them opens them for the faction chest they would have to.open them twice for them to be bound, and none of the recast mats disappear when you leave the instance or base, and whomever is saying they are/do is deceiving others for their own gain.

The pop up on the items says it. Everyone says that because PWI has it on the pop up...

ArenaSkies - Sanctuary

With the amount of time it takes to farm + the countless times to reforge the gear to the stats you want... might as well get R9.

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973

Looking at pwdb you should always get 3 Damascenes from each of the trial 5,6, and 7 bosses and there are 8 faction treasure chests to dig for a total of about 14 damascenes per full set 1-9.

That means 4-5 people are going to be able to do 1 reroll per week per full set of trials. There are probably like 6 factions on your server capable of a full trial run so that makes 30 rerolls per week per server.

I'd expect just as many people are making complete new r8 gear from scratch. It's probably not realistic to expect the average R8 gear to be rerolled more than once.

Probably the best way to get this is to offer to buy it from your faction mates at some very high price. Everyone has their price.

Traz - Dreamweaver

ArenaSkies - Sanctuary wrote: »

With the amount of time it takes to farm + the countless times to reforge the gear to the stats you want... might as well get R9.

R9 doesn't have -int chest or boots, you may leave the thread now.

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

Looking at pwdb you should always get 3 Damascenes from each of the trial 5,6, and 7 bosses and there are 8 faction treasure chests to dig for a total of about 14 damascenes per full set 1-9.

That means 4-5 people are going to be able to do 1 reroll per week per full set of trials. There are probably like 6 factions on your server capable of a full trial run so that makes 30 rerolls per week per server.

I'd expect just as many people are making complete new r8 gear from scratch. It's probably not realistic to expect the average R8 gear to be rerolled more than once.

Probably the best way to get this is to offer to buy it from your faction mates at some very high price. Everyone has their price.

I'd guess 60%-75% of the server is not in a faction that can do it, and this is under the assumption they do it every day. 1 re-roll per week for 30 people with the average of 1 in 23 chance means that 30 people need all the mats possible for 6 months (1/2 year) to get -int on plate. This doesn't take into consideration the harder changes for boots and all the mages that want better stats on theirs. Keep in mind I didn't even start to take into consideration for weapon chances for purges and GoF etc.... The r8 reforged system doesn't account for enough supply.

PS Damascene Ore sells for 20-25m on Dreamweaver. That's 75m just in those mats + others for 1 re-roll. I paid about 100m to get my plate.... (3 days after it was avail and prices were much higher) this system is out of control.

b:surrender

Nniotora - Lost City

anyway while they have valid points i rather have gear i have to work for some time then credit card swipe game it already is.Sometimes i wonder if ppl still remember the days where you had to farm like a week with a guild for hh70 gear. Rank 8 recast system is good we are jsut lazy gamers and want stuff fast it toke me 1 year to farm rank9 +12 with josd and it was worth it it makes the game much more fun

SashaGray - Heavens Tear

Traz - Dreamweaver wrote: »

The pop up on the items says it. Everyone says that because PWI has it on the pop up...

It didnt say that last month. i imagine there would have been quite the uproar if drops and chests were made from tradeable to untradable.

like i said, i was the trial banker for my faction, and dug the faction chests, nothing is untradable, nothing disappears. proof or BS

Traz - Dreamweaver

Nniotora - Lost City wrote: »

anyway while they have valid points i rather have gear i have to work for some time then credit card swipe game it already is.Sometimes i wonder if ppl still remember the days where you had to farm like a week with a guild for hh70 gear. Rank 8 recast system is good we are jsut lazy gamers and want stuff fast it toke me 1 year to farm rank9 +12 with josd and it was worth it it makes the game much more fun

As I said earlier, 1 in 23 chances to get -int on my plate. It would probably take me 2 months to buy 3 of them (not in a faction that does trials). That's about 4 years of re-rolls.... Yeah I dont' mind farming my stuff either... but 4 years just to re-roll one piece of gear.... no.

SashaGray - Heavens Tear wrote: »

It didnt say that last month. i imagine there would have been quite the uproar if drops and chests were made from tradeable to untradable.

like i said, i was the trial banker for my faction, and dug the faction chests, nothing is untradable, nothing disappears. proof or BS

When the servers are back up I'll SS it for you.

Nniotora - Lost City

Traz - Dreamweaver wrote: »

As I said earlier, 1 in 23 chances to get -int on my plate. It would probably take me 2 months to buy 3 of them (not in a faction that does trials). That's about 4 years of re-rolls.... Yeah I dont' mind farming my stuff either... but 4 years just to re-roll one piece of gear.... no.




When the servers are back up I'll SS it for you.

;o 2months to buy 3 i can get 9 a week i guess dreamweaver is worst then lost city in that way

Traz - Dreamweaver

Nniotora - Lost City wrote: »

;o 2months to buy 3 i can get 9 a week i guess dreamweaver is worst then lost city in that way

It's a complete **** on our server to find anyone selling them.

b:surrender

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973

It sounds like on Dreamweaver it would be almost cheaper to make a new R8 piece than to reroll an existing one b:chuckle

If they make Damascenes easier to get let's hope they make Summerwind Tokens easier too.
I know I'm having a fun time working towards the 8 billion coins I need for r9 recast...
I wouldn't mind Summerwind Tokens in the Boutique at 200 gold each at this point.

Nniotora - Lost City

Traz - Dreamweaver wrote: »

It's a complete **** on our server to find anyone selling them.

b:surrender

i feel you for us its more oricalcums hard to find some otherwise they are 15mil+ more then damascene which are 10-12mil

SashaGray - Heavens Tear

Traz - Dreamweaver wrote: »

When the servers are back up I'll SS it for you.[/QUoOTE]

I know the mats are bound after you open them.

Unless you are going to show me a SS of a picked up boss drop that is untradable or a faction chest item pack that says it will disappear, I find your offer of proof dubious.

Traz - Dreamweaver

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

It sounds like on Dreamweaver it would be almost cheaper to make a new R8 piece than to reroll an existing one b:chuckle

If they make Damascenes easier to get let's hope they make Summerwind Tokens easier too.
I know I'm having a fun time working towards the 8 billion coins I need for r9 recast...
I wouldn't mind Summerwind Tokens in the Boutique at 200 gold each at this point.

I +7'd it with about 150 mirages, but I have no shards and don't even use it. I'm starting to consider this option.... sadly. You know a system is flawed if it's easier to make a whole new piece of gear then to re-roll it......

b:surrender

SashaGray - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I know the mats are bound after you open them.

Unless you are going to show me a SS of a picked up boss drop that is untradable or a faction chest item pack that says it will disappear, I find your offer of proof dubious.

I'm not talking about the mats themselves, I'm talking about the pouches they come in. There is one version that is tradable and another that needs to be opened or it goes poof.

deadwieght

an easy solution would be to make plat ores tradeable for dama ores at the forges. something like a 20:1 ratio. that way the smaller factions who cant farm the dama ores still can use the plats for something. this wouldnt hurt any part of the game economy either because plat ore are not hard to get and are utterly useless at this point. i think they are sold for less than whetstones on dreamweaver..

deadwieght

10:1 ratio or 12:1 ratio is a better idea, assuming plat ores sell for 1 mil each. that would put the recast cost on par with the nirvana gear recast costs. thats 30-35 mil plus the other needed mats and cost per recast. that seems fair to me.