Damascene Ores

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  • The__Sun - Dreamweaver
    The__Sun - Dreamweaver Posts: 336 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    Valirah - Sanctuary wrote: »
    No, you will get the almost identical Ores that also have the "scene only" tag and must be distributed and opened before leaving base.

    Yes, you are correct sorry I mistyped on that meant to say the pack is tradeable but when you open they arn't
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  • _Skai_ - Raging Tide
    _Skai_ - Raging Tide Posts: 3,407 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    @Aziz Exactly. I normally don't go asking for things to be easier, as this is not about that, but more on the lines of "hey, at least make this more reasonably available to people". As another analogy, it's like limiting normal Nirvana to just like Caster Nirvana, only with the same drop ratios.

    In other words, it's like saying you can only do Nirvana 3 times a day, and 3 times only. You can stack your keys, but after 3 a day you aren't allowed into the instance until the next day. And then making the chance for a mirage 90%, flawless shards 2.4% each (4 of them), 100 p stones in the first chest 0.2%, and Cannies 0.2%. And for the final boss in each, making cannies a 30% chance, Raptures 5%, and Mirages 65%.

    The above example would make normal Nirvana a pain to do, let alone make it reasonable to farm Nirvy gear. That's how it is like for Damascenes. Seriously.
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  • _Skai_ - Raging Tide
    _Skai_ - Raging Tide Posts: 3,407 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    I wc'd on and off every hour for a good portion of the day whilst I was doing other things online today. No replies at all.

    Talked with a few leaders of pretty big factions. All of them said "I'm sorry, but we can't sell Damascenes outside of the faction because they're so rare. Plus there are a lot of people here that need them as well".

    Even the faction I'm in said Damascenes are always in low stock, even though we do daily trials.

    Problem? Yes, I think so.
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  • Valirah - Sanctuary
    Valirah - Sanctuary Posts: 522 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    _Skai_ - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Talked with a few leaders of pretty big factions. All of them said "I'm sorry, but we can't sell Damascenes outside of the faction because they're so rare. Plus there are a lot of people here that need them as well".
    What are the distribution policies of these factions? Seems like not everyone who attends gets a fair share of the faction loot.

    My faction is the leading Trial runner on Sanctuary (we were the first to complete set 1, set 2, and as of last week set 3). All faction drops are pooled and given a credit value. Those who attend earn credits which they can the turn in for mats. As long as you have the credits, you're free to chose what you want from the loot pool and what you want to do with your purchase.

    I've cashed out I think 8 Damascenes and 3 Hapatizons, of which I've used 3 Damas to reroll an alt's armor. The rest has been sold off to the general public. This "can't sell out side of faction" business is ****. Everyone who participates should earn a portion of the faction drops. It's hardly fair to everyone else if a select few get to buy rare drops at a price below market value.
  • Vancore - Sanctuary
    Vancore - Sanctuary Posts: 262 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    Azizsixer - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Much easier way would be to adjust the drop rate of the ores from the lil box thingy u get at the end of each trial.

    Normally I would argue against increasing stuff like that since it'd make it easy to obtain an op piece of gear, but I mean come on, the odds of getting anything remotely close to good adds on R8 recast are so low even with Dama ores available I'm sure i'd be a pain in the **** getting good recast adds.

    Heck even the "perfect" nirvana dagz are still pretty rare and raps are easy enough to farm o.O

    Question though, does double drops affect the stuff that drops from trial bosses?

    2x has no effect of trial boss drops but does effect the mobs that drop stuff
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  • Traz - Dreamweaver
    Traz - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,843 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    Valirah - Sanctuary wrote: »
    What are the distribution policies of these factions? Seems like not everyone who attends gets a fair share of the faction loot.

    My faction is the leading Trial runner on Sanctuary (we were the first to complete set 1, set 2, and as of last week set 3). All faction drops are pooled and given a credit value. Those who attend earn credits which they can the turn in for mats. As long as you have the credits, you're free to chose what you want from the loot pool and what you want to do with your purchase.

    I've cashed out I think 8 Damascenes and 3 Hapatizons, of which I've used 3 Damas to reroll an alt's armor. The rest has been sold off to the general public. This "can't sell out side of faction" business is ****. Everyone who participates should earn a portion of the faction drops. It's hardly fair to everyone else if a select few get to buy rare drops at a price below market value.

    They problem is everyone gets their r8 reforged fast then everyone is on the same step.... re-rolling.... and the supply is not even enough to support the faction doing the trials let alone having enough overflow to support the market.
    BladedZero - Sanctuary
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    -And we wonder why this game has gone to hell b:cute
  • _Nerox_ - Dreamweaver
    _Nerox_ - Dreamweaver Posts: 753 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    Traz - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    They problem is everyone gets their r8 reforged fast then everyone is on the same step.... re-rolling.... and the supply is not even enough to support the faction doing the trials let alone having enough overflow to support the market.

    then just add them to the shop like r9
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  • Traz - Dreamweaver
    Traz - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,843 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    _Nerox_ - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    then just add them to the shop like r9

    That's completely unnecessary step. We've already had several option that are very sound to really boost the market for damascene and hep.
    BladedZero - Sanctuary
    "Also I don't think actually playing through the game helps your skill either."

    -And we wonder why this game has gone to hell b:cute
  • Valirah - Sanctuary
    Valirah - Sanctuary Posts: 522 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    Traz - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    They problem is everyone gets their r8 reforged fast then everyone is on the same step.... re-rolling.... and the supply is not even enough to support the faction doing the trials let alone having enough overflow to support the market.

    I certainly agree that the supply is low, but it seems rather unfair to those that aren't rerolling to be cut out of the Damascenes. Everyone puts in their time, rewards should be split evenly. The ones that are planning on rerolling have the advantage of being able to make use of the "scene only" drops. All others should be divided among participants, where people can chose to sell if they so desire.
  • Traz - Dreamweaver
    Traz - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,843 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    Valirah - Sanctuary wrote: »
    I certainly agree that the supply is low, but it seems rather unfair to those that aren't rerolling to be cut out of the Damascenes. Everyone puts in their time, rewards should be split evenly. The ones that are planning on rerolling have the advantage of being able to make use of the "scene only" drops. All others should be divided among participants, where people can chose to sell if they so desire.

    No one is cut out, there is a waiting list. That's just how it has to be since there isn't enough supply to give out to everyone that needs it. I'm not even in a faction that can do trials so i'm 2nd degree removed from ever being able to re-roll my chest plate.... and I had my chest plate since november.
    BladedZero - Sanctuary
    "Also I don't think actually playing through the game helps your skill either."

    -And we wonder why this game has gone to hell b:cute
  • Valirah - Sanctuary
    Valirah - Sanctuary Posts: 522 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    Traz - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    No one is cut out, there is a waiting list. That's just how it has to be since there isn't enough supply to give out to everyone that needs it. I'm not even in a faction that can do trials so i'm 2nd degree removed from ever being able to re-roll my chest plate.... and I had my chest plate since november.

    Not exactly clear on the waiting list notion. What does it take to get on the list? Does someone who attends a few Trials but is recasting get precedence over someone who attends frequently but has no direct use and intends to sell?

    Our system is designed to avoid waiting lists. Everyone who attends earns credits, the more you attend, the more you earn. Mats are priced according to their supply and demand. Scarce, high demand items like Damascenes are priced high. Once you have the required credits, you submit and receive, first come first serve. Damascene prices have shot up recently on Sanct causing increased demand which may finally exhaust our banked supply. This will be remedied by increasing their cost to a point where they are no longer the most efficient use of credits, decreasing demand.
  • Traz - Dreamweaver
    Traz - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,843 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    Valirah - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Not exactly clear on the waiting list notion. What does it take to get on the list? Does someone who attends a few Trials but is recasting get precedence over someone who attends frequently but has no direct use and intends to sell?

    Our system is designed to avoid waiting lists. Everyone who attends earns credits, the more you attend, the more you earn. Mats are priced according to their supply and demand. Scarce, high demand items like Damascenes are priced high. Once you have the required credits, you submit and receive, first come first serve. Damascene prices have shot up recently on Sanct causing increased demand which may finally exhaust our banked supply. This will be remedied by increasing their cost to a point where they are no longer the most efficient use of credits, decreasing demand.

    What kind of crazy assumption is that? If you need it you get on the list. If you show up the most frequent you then get them. There is so few supply you will always be able to award out to everyone that needs. Theoretically if you get a r8 reforged piece you will need to probably re-roll at least once so everyone does need. If you're r9 helping faction out you can get other things that not everyone needs to sell or do whatever with if that's what you choose.
    BladedZero - Sanctuary
    "Also I don't think actually playing through the game helps your skill either."

    -And we wonder why this game has gone to hell b:cute
  • Valirah - Sanctuary
    Valirah - Sanctuary Posts: 522 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    Traz - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    What kind of crazy assumption is that? If you need it you get on the list. If you show up the most frequent you then get them. There is so few supply you will always be able to award out to everyone that needs. Theoretically if you get a r8 reforged piece you will need to probably re-roll at least once so everyone does need. If you're r9 helping faction out you can get other things that not everyone needs to sell or do whatever with if that's what you choose.

    So, contrary to your earlier statement, those that aren't going to directly use rare mats are indeed cut out of distribution. The vast majority of the value of faction drops comes from the rare mats. By cutting R9's and others who don't directly need these mats from their fair share of the rewards these factions are gimping themselves. R9's shoulder the most burden and have the power to enable completion of higher runs yet they are snubbed on loot because they don't "need" it. No wonder these mats are in such short supply.

    Trials are flourishing in my faction and I'm sure a major reason is our fair distribution system. As a major TW faction, we have a decent number of R9's and other well geared folks in no need of recasting R8. A good portion of these regularly attend trials and are suitably rewarded for their efforts.

    The majority of my earnings from Trials runs comes from the credits, not from the reward boxes. I worked out that a reward box is worth about 1m on average. Credits can be worth 300-500k each. Each Trial earns you 2 credits, doubled for second set, tripled for third set. This means that even on a first set run, the credits are worth as much as the box. Running a third set Trial means the credits can be worth up to 3x the average value of a box, a total of about 4m for the run. Now that's what I call incentive.

    Keeping the most well geared folks out of the reward loop only serves to handicap a factions ability to run Trials.
  • Lyritha - Heavens Tear
    Lyritha - Heavens Tear Posts: 447 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    welcome to my world... I sure would love some purified perfect stones or warsoul weapon mats but PWE is set on not selling them in the cash shop having them drop or uh much of anything.

    Will they go sale them like the R9 in the cash shop? Probably not...
  • Traz - Dreamweaver
    Traz - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,843 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    Valirah - Sanctuary wrote: »
    So, contrary to your earlier statement, those that aren't going to directly use rare mats are indeed cut out of distribution. The vast majority of the value of faction drops comes from the rare mats. By cutting R9's and others who don't directly need these mats from their fair share of the rewards these factions are gimping themselves. R9's shoulder the most burden and have the power to enable completion of higher runs yet they are snubbed on loot because they don't "need" it. No wonder these mats are in such short supply.

    Trials are flourishing in my faction and I'm sure a major reason is our fair distribution system. As a major TW faction, we have a decent number of R9's and other well geared folks in no need of recasting R8. A good portion of these regularly attend trials and are suitably rewarded for their efforts.

    The majority of my earnings from Trials runs comes from the credits, not from the reward boxes. I worked out that a reward box is worth about 1m on average. Credits can be worth 300-500k each. Each Trial earns you 2 credits, doubled for second set, tripled for third set. This means that even on a first set run, the credits are worth as much as the box. Running a third set Trial means the credits can be worth up to 3x the average value of a box, a total of about 4m for the run. Now that's what I call incentive.

    Keeping the most well geared folks out of the reward loop only serves to handicap a factions ability to run Trials.

    Damascene's go to people that are getting r8 period. The majority of the damascene ore is supplied from the faction treasure that is instance bound anyway. That is distributed to those that have or are getting r8 reforged. The people getting damascene aren't going to be considered for rare mats if they already got stuff... what kind of messed up system would that be? I said nothing else about how any of the other mats are distributed. There is a short supply because the drops / system sucks, not because there are hardly any trials getting done.

    PS r9 aren't needed to do trials so the whole "shoulder the burden" did make me giggle.
    BladedZero - Sanctuary
    "Also I don't think actually playing through the game helps your skill either."

    -And we wonder why this game has gone to hell b:cute
  • Valirah - Sanctuary
    Valirah - Sanctuary Posts: 522 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    Traz - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    PS r9 aren't needed to do trials so the whole "shoulder the burden" did make me giggle.
    No, R9 is not needed to get Trials done, you just need enough people to provide enough DD on the timed runs to be able to advance. Biggest hurdle with getting Trials done is getting enough people together at the same time. Fully refined R9's can do the work of several lesser geared people. Highest costs are incurred by those who tank the bosses and mobs. So yeah, when I do the work of 3, burn charm, and have repair costs in the hundreds of thousands, I feel entitled to my fair share of the faction drops.
  • Traz - Dreamweaver
    Traz - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,843 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    Valirah - Sanctuary wrote: »
    No, R9 is not needed to get Trials done, you just need enough people to provide enough DD on the timed runs to be able to advance. Biggest hurdle with getting Trials done is getting enough people together at the same time. Fully refined R9's can do the work of several lesser geared people. Highest costs are incurred by those who tank the bosses and mobs. So yeah, when I do the work of 3, burn charm, and have repair costs in the hundreds of thousands, I feel entitled to my fair share of the faction drops.

    The translation I got was:
    **** the person in your faction that needs the damascene ore and was there putting in the work. Since they didn't tank the boss you want it instead because of said things you stated, otherwise it's totally unfair to you?
    BladedZero - Sanctuary
    "Also I don't think actually playing through the game helps your skill either."

    -And we wonder why this game has gone to hell b:cute
  • Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973
    Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 Posts: 7,881 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    Traz - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    I'm not even in a faction that can do trials
    Traz - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    PS r9 aren't needed to do trials so the whole "shoulder the burden" did make me giggle.

    It sounds like your faction needs more R9 people to help you do trials.
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  • Traz - Dreamweaver
    Traz - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,843 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »
    It sounds like your faction needs more R9 people to help you do trials.

    I was in Regenesis and we had over 20 full r9s... I've done trials already and I know how our system worked, but this notion that a r9 should get damascene ore when they don't even need it is silly. They should get fair share of all the other drops with the damascene awards taken into consideration for the rest of the hand outs.
    BladedZero - Sanctuary
    "Also I don't think actually playing through the game helps your skill either."

    -And we wonder why this game has gone to hell b:cute
  • Valirah - Sanctuary
    Valirah - Sanctuary Posts: 522 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    Traz - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    The translation I got was:
    **** the person in your faction that needs the damascene ore and was there putting in the work. Since they didn't tank the boss you want it instead because of said things you stated, otherwise it's totally unfair to you?
    Not sure just how you came up with that. I just want a FAIR and EQUAL share of the community loot. Sure some people need Damascenes for rerolling their gear, I have a need for the 18m I can sell one for. Why should my needs take second place? If I put in the same amount of time as someone else, why shouldn't I be able to get the same rewards?

    What I get from your statement is "**** the guy who is making the run easier or even possible, I want to get mats at below market value".
  • Bobobejumbo - Raging Tide
    Bobobejumbo - Raging Tide Posts: 934 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    Valirah - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Not sure just how you came up with that. I just want a FAIR and EQUAL share of the community loot. Sure some people need Damascenes for rerolling their gear, I have a need for the 18m I can sell one for. Why should my needs take second place? If I put in the same amount of time as someone else, why shouldn't I be able to get the same rewards?

    What I get from your statement is "**** the guy who is making the run easier or even possible, I want to get mats at below market value".

    Your greed, from your own faction mates no less, is repulsive b:faint
  • T_i_m - Dreamweaver
    T_i_m - Dreamweaver Posts: 200 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    Valirah - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Trials are flourishing in my faction and I'm sure a major reason is our fair distribution system. As a major TW faction, we have a decent number of R9's and other well geared folks in no need of recasting R8. A good portion of these regularly attend trials and are suitably rewarded for their efforts.


    This sounds like a great system that everyone benefits from. Personally, I'm reforging a few R8 bits that i don't really *need* but want for long-term projects. Without priority access to Damascenes or an equivalent incentive, I'd have little reason to help out with trials. By keeping folks like me who don't *need* trials for their gear invested, you enable faster therefore more runs which means more mats on the market for people who have greater need for the gear. It's certainly more productive than a "share the wealth" mentality.
  • Traz - Dreamweaver
    Traz - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,843 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    Valirah - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Not sure just how you came up with that. I just want a FAIR and EQUAL share of the community loot. Sure some people need Damascenes for rerolling their gear, I have a need for the 18m I can sell one for. Why should my needs take second place? If I put in the same amount of time as someone else, why shouldn't I be able to get the same rewards?

    What I get from your statement is "**** the guy who is making the run easier or even possible, I want to get mats at below market value".

    Because your coin needs can be handled through other mats. They can't satisfy their re-roll needs any other way.
    Bobobejumbo - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Your greed, from your own faction mates no less, is repulsive b:faint

    That was my thoughts when I read it. :(
    BladedZero - Sanctuary
    "Also I don't think actually playing through the game helps your skill either."

    -And we wonder why this game has gone to hell b:cute
  • Valirah - Sanctuary
    Valirah - Sanctuary Posts: 522 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    T_i_m - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    This sounds like a great system that everyone benefits from. Personally, I'm reforging a few R8 bits that i don't really *need* but want for long-term projects. Without priority access to Damascenes or an equivalent incentive, I'd have little reason to help out with trials. By keeping folks like me who don't *need* trials for their gear invested, you enable faster therefore more runs which means more mats on the market for people who have greater need for the gear. It's certainly more productive than a "share the wealth" mentality.

    BINGO! Somebody gets it. More people = more Trials = more mats.

    Traz - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Because your coin needs can be handled through other mats. They can't satisfy their re-roll needs any other way. :(
    Except my coin needs CAN"T be satisfied with other mats. Rare mats make up the majority of the coin value of the faction drops. The **** mats are not nearly enough to make up equal shares.



    Greedy are people who want others to do work while they get the spoils.
  • Apostasy - Raging Tide
    Apostasy - Raging Tide Posts: 1,197 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    Here's the only answer to the problem atm : Without Damascene Ore being reasonably available... => Buy another initial R8 piece... Recast With Oriculum / Platnum Ores...

    b:lipcurl
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  • Traz - Dreamweaver
    Traz - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,843 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    Apostasy - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Here's the only answer to the problem atm : Without Damascene Ore being reasonably available... => Buy another initial R8 piece... Recast With Oriculum / Platnum Ores...

    b:lipcurl

    Depends on how you want to do it. For me, that way to re-roll is 20m more then damascene, but I will obviously get it much faster. So I need to decide if i want a 1 in 23 chance it with a 20m more per roll (460m more coins on average) or if i want to go slower and save the coin.

    Honestly damascene is to scares to buy so the first option is probably the only reasonable one.
    BladedZero - Sanctuary
    "Also I don't think actually playing through the game helps your skill either."

    -And we wonder why this game has gone to hell b:cute
  • _Skai_ - Raging Tide
    _Skai_ - Raging Tide Posts: 3,407 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    Likewise with Tim, I only am getting r8 recast as a side project I'm working on, as have been said many times, to try to achieve 5.0 aps sparked with r9 daggers. But unlike your system Valirah the rare mats are stored in our bank and only are available to those who actually want them. And the only way to get them is to trade in rarer mats that other factionmates need in a ratio standard (i.e. 1 Damascene per x Whetstones, for example). This is to decrease the chance of giving ores to people who don't even have r8r, or even aiming to go in that direction.

    But even then, every faction seems to be focused on not distributing rare mats outside of the faction. By rare mats I mean Damascenes and Hapatizon Whetstones. Every other r8 recast mat is easily available in the public market. Why can't Damascenes and Hapatizons be as well?

    Or even better yet, why can't more of them be dropped per 7-9 trial? It would be nice if the boss dropped amounts based on how many people are in a faction.

    And @ Apost that method equates to Damascenes costing about 30m-ish each. Even if someone cses, that price is a bit too much to aim for for decent stats on r8r. As Traz said, the scarcity of Damascenes would make this method more reasonable in terms of time-frames, but a lot pricier. :/
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  • Bobobejumbo - Raging Tide
    Bobobejumbo - Raging Tide Posts: 934 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    Valirah - Sanctuary wrote: »

    Greedy are people who want others to do work while they get the spoils.

    Let's say your R8 guild mate is putting forth 100% effort in the Trials, and you, a fully refined R9 (that's what I gathered from this, correct me if I am wrong) also put forth 100% effort.

    Now clearly with the difference in gears, your 100% is going to accomplish more than their 100%. Am I correct in understanding you feel that because your full effort produces more of an effect, you are entitled to a larger portion of the spoils because you are "carrying" them?


    If that is the case, I'll admit I'm slightly disgusted by such a thought process. I was under the impression it was a team effort to improve the team as a whole. Not a competition. If you feel you need to be compensated for helping your team out for anything beyond the overhead costs involved, yes that IS greed.


    Anyways, sorry for derailing it Skai.
  • _Skai_ - Raging Tide
    _Skai_ - Raging Tide Posts: 3,407 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    No problem Bob. Our system is set up so our whole team gets the boost. There's really no room to improve as a full r9, but it never hurts to help out a factionmate(s) that need this recast r8 and can't afford r9.

    Unless you're a faction hopper, I consider a faction a home, and your factionmates your family. I'm up for helping factionmates when they need it.

    Needless to say the bottom line is that Damascenes are too low in supply because getting them is improbable. Only 3 trials out of the 9 that drop them from the boss, and 5 trials in total that have a chest that has a chance to get them at such low quantities is not enough to support a faction, let alone anyone outside of the faction.
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  • Traz - Dreamweaver
    Traz - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,843 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    Bobobejumbo - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Let's say your R8 guild mate is putting forth 100% effort in the Trials, and you, a fully refined R9 (that's what I gathered from this, correct me if I am wrong) also put forth 100% effort.

    Now clearly with the difference in gears, your 100% is going to accomplish more than their 100%. Am I correct in understanding you feel that because your full effort produces more of an effect, you are entitled to a larger portion of the spoils because you are "carrying" them?


    If that is the case, I'll admit I'm slightly disgusted by such a thought process. I was under the impression it was a team effort to improve the team as a whole. Not a competition. If you feel you need to be compensated for helping your team out for anything beyond the overhead costs involved, yes that IS greed.


    Anyways, sorry for derailing it Skai.

    That was articulated much better then I did, but that's my viewpoint on it. Hopefully an admin can at least acknowledge this thread at some point. It is a very big concern to some pretty high up cashers PWI. *wink wink nudge nudge*
    BladedZero - Sanctuary
    "Also I don't think actually playing through the game helps your skill either."

    -And we wonder why this game has gone to hell b:cute

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