GMs, fix our bramble. Seriously.
Comments
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Didn't read all the replies, but Otonio's point is valid : without bramble, a veno is nothing.
And to those who say "yeah brah but you have your pet and sht"... Well, in PvP a pet isn't the most useful thing against a melee class.
Being a BM, I don't even remember hitting a pet, I just go straight to the source : the poor veno that has an average survival of 4 hits (charm tick included) and considering I'm 5 APS, it lasts like 2sec before the veno goes down.
So yeah, not fair that bramble doesn't work in PvP.
Go get them Otonio ! b:laugh0 -
Venos's pet definitely require a buff, Nix is either one shotted or two shotted by with the gear that we have available today.
Sure nix was OP two years ago when TT99 was uber rare, but now ppl is either R8/TT99/Nirvana/Dreaded R9 and those ppl mostly ignore the pet or two/three shot it (one shot from R9) leaving the veno to fend by themselves.
My opinion is that nix status should be changed to increase as the gear of the veno gets better like mystic pets, WE PAID 200 USD FOR THAT DAMNED PET AFTER ALL and is useless as it is right now. Also bramble needs to be fixed so it works ALWAYS, is beyond me how pw developers think that ASSASSIN'S STEALTH IS NOT OVERPOWERED AND IS NOT NERFED AT ALL, BUT BRAMBLE IS, what kind of **** logic is that. Leave bramble to work all the time as it was intended.0 -
Rubride - Lost City wrote: »
Fine, try to kill the Ape boss in HH2-2 and HH2-3 or any other boss that buffs itself.
I do that boss without venos all the time o.o
Drak if you're 4 hitting someone with fists then it's not because their class is underpowered, it's because they have **** gear. Giving them a reflect skill in open PvP wouldn't help. If you're gonna use an example to prove your point then use one that's at least viable, not one that involved a 5APS melee facerolling someone lesser geared. A well geared veno that knows what they're doing can kill, just like any other well geared class that knows how to play. End of story.
The only "unfair" thing about venos not having a reflect skill for open PvP is that Psychics have one while theirs doesn't work. That's really it.
EDIT: Also, the argument that a 200$ pet should be able to compete in any way with gear that is over three times the cost is, well.. it's ****. "Our bird should be able to hurt people, we paid so much for it!!!" Well guess what? Those people that your bird isn't having a large impact on spent way more on their gear than you did on your nix. That's like me saying "Hey, I just bought +4 Deicide and a few pieces of TT99 that are all +3, I should be able to take down a R9!!!".0 -
Otonio - Heavens Tear wrote: »I'm waiting for some rational explanation as to why veno's bramble guard and bramble hood don't work in PK.
You do realize that that's basically a veno's only line of defense, right? Our only heal skill sucks, soul transfusion and feral concentration are iffy, why would you take that away?
We're just sitting ducks for melee users because we have very little way to defend ourselves.
I can understand why people QQ about bramble hood-- the more you hit, the more 200% of return damage is going to hurt, but honestly? Venos are hardly OP. I honestly don't care if aps users suicide themselves hitting us... buy a bow. We have to deal wih the various buffs other classes have.
If veno's bramble skills got nerfed in PK, then fine, nerf stealth. Nerf stun. Nerf unpurgeable buffs. And WHY is it that psychic's reflect buffs work in every circumstance, given that those aren't even just melee?
Especially given now that anyone with a fac base just pan gu pot spams like a noob, I fail to understand the reasoning behind giving this huge disadvantage to venos. It's rather unfair to us. Either give it back, or let's take some skills away from other players and even out the playing field. Quit **** over one of your oldest and most quintessential classes, kthx.
Venoes are hardly OP... LOL.... Do duels and TW and stop QQin?I, II and III spark is the most cheesiest skill in PWI and it should be removed or massively nerfed.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Cytte - Harshlands wrote: »Also Kritty tell PWE to fix their forums, every time I click the color button to color a second post it puts the rgb code instead.
Though I agree, why are psy's self buffs not purge-able, & why are they allowed to have an all dmg bramble?
This is actually only on some browsers. I've noticed that the problem doesn't exist on IE, but it does on Chrome (what I use). I don't know if something's broken in the coding or something, but yeah...
What I do to fix it is just re-select the color box in the drop-down menu.Yami_ - Dreamweaver wrote: »What I'm seeing It's only people and mods trolling, like a former Wizard let me say something instead of those noobs:
How was I trolling? People have yet to point that out to me...
Last I heard, expressing one's opinion wasn't trolling, and that was all I did. Just because you think I'm wrong doesn't mean I'm trolling, it just means that we have differing opinions.
*le gasp*
b:surrender0 -
Stop calling Soul of Vengence a reflect.
It's not a reflect. It has absolutely nothing to do with the amount of damage you inflict on the Psychic. And it does a LOT less potential damage than a Veno's Bramble or Bramble Hood. A Psychic's MAX reflect (55k soulforce at Demon SoV) is 1.6k per hit after PvP reduction. Period. This is a lvl 105 +12 EVERYTHING r9 Psychic. End of story. And that 1.6k per hit gets further reduced by your PDef. Yes, this can cause some cumulative damage over time, especially if you are trying to APS the Psychic, but similar to Bramble? Heck no. Any Psychic who is not full +12 is doing much less damage to you as Soulforce has its peak benefit at +11 to +12.
Now, should Venos have Bramble in PK? Yes! Veno pet bleed is negligible on a decently defended enemy, Venos just use their pets for Pounce and some added damage to tick a charm these days before the pet is killed somehow. Sins can faceroll most things, even a brambled Veno, but Bramble on Defense Level does provide an appropriate challenge. A 16k crit returns something like 4k damage on Demon Bramble while the damage gets reduced by defense level, the Bramble Output remains the same. Calling Venos gimped mages at any point I disagree with, however. A Veno is an entirely different class and while their DD is good, mostly they are amazing support. AoE purge on Sage, Sage Soul Degen, Amp... NOVA b:shocked T_T CRUSH VIGOR.Obviously summer sprint isn't terribly useful in PVP situations unless you're running away like a noob...
I guffawed. It is not noob to run.blahblah short range AoE classes blah blah DB is useless in PvP
Psy also have a short range AoE. So do Clerics. Both of these skills have immobilize options or procs for reasons I do not quite understand. DB is a continuous AoE, like Barrage, so there always remains the option of using Expel on yourself and becoming immune to Physical Damage while still keeping the DB up and going. This is useful in TW. Emberstorm makes me chuckle, though.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
How was I trolling? People have yet to point that out to me...
Last I heard, expressing one's opinion wasn't trolling, and that was all I did. Just because you think I'm wrong doesn't mean I'm trolling, it just means that we have differing opinions.
*le gasp*
b:surrender
you were trolling because you were stating opinions you could not possible hold if you have any experience with the subject, and stating them in order to start an argument, if that isn't trolling, then i just dont what is.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
SashaGray - Heavens Tear wrote: »you were trolling because you were stating opinions you could not possible hold if you have any experience with the subject, and stating them in order to start an argument, if that isn't trolling, then i just dont what is.
You remind me a lot of Yulk. >_>
1)Kritty made a statement.
2) You FLAMED Kritty for his statement, just like you do when ANYONE else posts ANYTHING you even REMOTELY disagree with.
3) Kritty went 'wtf'.
4) You started posting stuff and **** that honestly, nobody is gonna read, or if they bother, care about.101 Sage Sin*/Archer
100 Demon BM*/Barb
96 Demon Cleric/Sage Seeker
95 Demon Wiz/
94 Sage Veno
85 Psy/80 Mystic
And a handful of other alts, all 79 and under.
*Pre RB level0 -
Sarrafeline - Sanctuary wrote: »You remind me a lot of Yulk. >_>
1)Kritty made a statement.
2) You FLAMED Kritty for his statement, just like you do when ANYONE else posts ANYTHING you even REMOTELY disagree with.
3) Kritty went 'wtf'.
4) You started posting stuff and **** that honestly, nobody is gonna read, or if they bother, care about.
I don't know when you fell in love with me, and decided everything I say is somehow addressed to you, but it isn't. Your responses are neither constructive, informative or invited, and I don't love you back.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Otonio - Heavens Tear wrote: »Cause I don't rely on my pets to be a good veno, and neither do many venos I know.
Um, I use my pets all the time. Being a "good" veno is knowing how to control yourself and your pets at the same time.0 -
there are other pets than phoenixes that have FR and cause a bleed.FR can be put on any pet, and cause the same damage...Unless it's a nix, with that OP bleed...b:cry[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
(and hugs to Flauschkatze for the sig!)
"Thanks for writing me-- it's always great to hear from a vet.
-FrankieRaye"
Playing here since '08b:heart0 -
This is actually only on some browsers. I've noticed that the problem doesn't exist on IE, but it does on Chrome (what I use). I don't know if something's broken in the coding or something, but yeah...
What I do to fix it is just re-select the color box in the drop-down menu.
How was I trolling? People have yet to point that out to me...
Last I heard, expressing one's opinion wasn't trolling, and that was all I did. Just because you think I'm wrong doesn't mean I'm trolling, it just means that we have differing opinions.
*le gasp*
b:surrender
Yea youre a troll cat b:chuckle but I like to read your posts b:victory0 -
FoxRunning - Heavens Tear wrote: »there are other pets than phoenixes that have FR and cause a bleed.FR can be put on any pet, and cause the same damage...
I was referencing an example to which most people could relate.b:chuckle
I know that it can be put on other pets (such as the Petite Sawfly) and still have the same general effect.
And I refuse to be called a troll. I'm just an opinionated person.b:surrender0 -
I agree that BG shouldn't be nerfed while others aren't. What many dont realize is that a veno can deal a lot of damage and do it quickly. My veno is pure sage mage with all mage skills plus FF, Amp, and Purge sage and have -42% channeling with 1% crit and I can steal aggro like nothing and I'm not even in rank gear. Pets can only do so much at the higher levels and my nix is the only one that can hold aggro against me most of the time. With the right gear and right build, a veno can keep pace with a lot of other races.
BTW, the whole sage/demon veno argument isn't valid since both have good and bad bonuses. For me, sage gives more constant, slightly higher damage over demon with the advantage of gaining a lot more chi and that bonus "OMG, save your butt from p-atk" moment with sage FF and a 1min CD purify while demon is better for sporadic high output damage and higher FF attacks while being immune to stun. Both sage/demon are great and suck at the same time. There are obviously other advantages/disadvantages to both that I have not mentioned but arguing over which is better is a mute discussion, it depends on your build and preference.
For those continuing to argue about things are the way they are and why this is nerfed but this aint and why is this better than that and that mine is bigger than yours, etc, remember this one statement, arguing on the internet is like running in the special olympics, even if you win you are still **** (no offense to those who are mentally disabled).0 -
i would reallu wish this bramble to work on veno and also with barb demon roar.
the only one who i see complaining are melee classes but seriusly just cos u like aps so much shouldent mean there should be a counter for this.
no pvp would not be dead it would balance things out it might even bring more caster out to play cos some would not survive but that is how pwi grows and addapts.
so the same ppl who say learn ur class and less qq do urself a favor and imagne a world with bramble ooh it would we glorius.
less aps pk and more magic and more controll skills YES YES YESb:pleased0 -
FoxRunning - Heavens Tear wrote: »there are other pets than phoenixes that have FR and cause a bleed.FR can be put on any pet, and cause the same damage...
FR bleed is calculated off your pets base damage. And nix has the highest of that so ya... nix bleed is way stronger than it would be on another pet ^.~[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
What confuses me about this entire topic... is how can you say bramble doesn't work in PvP when I see people QQing all the time about dying to veno bramble? I, myself, have nearly killed myself on my assassin to a brambled veno in a non duel setting. I actually pk'ed the veno but nearly died in the process.
Even confirmed with a friend of mine who TWs weekly and she said it works in TW. So what exactly is there to fix...? Just want to make sure I'm not missing something here...
Edit: My question was answered when my friend and I tested the theory. GMs, pass the message along to the Devs to fix bramble in the NORMAL PvP setting... Cube is nice and all.. but in normal pvp would be GREAT! kthx
_Jaysun_'s Wife
Heaven's Tear--
Retired
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
For all those that told me Lunar Gold wasn't worth the hassle of farming... but now have the Nirvana versions... I laugh at you. Hypocrites.0 -
i got un idea why not tell the devs to make a cash shop item wish let a class get all skill working pvp wise this way ppl get what they wanted and devs get there coin and we all win.
idk a item to a singel class in a acc so if say a account have 6 spots the player would need 6 of this items but hey we all get working skills of the class and even if the game get somewhat inbalanced i dobt it can get more inbalanced .The devs are happy and we are happy.
win win no just make all skills work as they were intended.
if game become totally inbalanced dev can always blame the player base and they can sleep well at night for giving the player what they want.
aint i smart.
the bramble does work in duel and in tw BUt not in open pk where you see so many sins.
the reason is cos the biggest qq would end up with bm and sin and anybody else who is 5aps.
its not hard to see why i still cant find many player who cant pk without abusing aps for there kills.0 -
VKnightV - Lost City wrote: »the bramble does work in duel and in tw BUt not in open pk where you see so many sins.
the reason is cos the biggest qq would end up with bm and sin and anybody else who is 5aps.
its not hard to see why i still cant find many player who cant pk without abusing aps for there kills.
To be honest, I still see people QQ about stealthing sins and others who use Ironguards. The QQ won't ever stop, whether there are nerfs or not. As spoons said (if I recall right), some people just can't be pleased_Jaysun_'s Wife
Heaven's Tear--
Retired
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
For all those that told me Lunar Gold wasn't worth the hassle of farming... but now have the Nirvana versions... I laugh at you. Hypocrites.0 -
well stealth does work as intended bramble doesnt.
if a class may use his charactiristic why cant another class use his.
i knew i remmeber mod saying freetoPlay games need a easy to play class to allure the masses. but i dobt bramble is op in itself as stealth and deaden nerv.
bramble only affect close combat and not bow and magic so it should not affect much of pwi tho the reason ppl qq is cos atm there is more sin and bm who are abusing aps to win.
with bramble they can still pk but they would need to use there brain more then auto attack wish is the point.
this should affect nothing but sin bm some barb and some archers. so now i ask why is bramble so hard to counter when 4 out of 10 classes would we affected by it.0 -
Yeah, totally! Let the bramble available in PvP!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfZ9Qbq4WJc
/Sarcasm off
the price of the IG will raisewell stealth does work as intended bramble doesnt.
if a class may use his charactiristic why cant another class use his.
i knew i remmeber mod saying freetoPlay games need a easy to play class to allure the masses. but i dobt bramble is op in itself as stealth and deaden nerv.
bramble only affect close combat and not bow and magic so it should not affect much of pwi tho the reason ppl qq is cos atm there is more sin and bm who are abusing aps to win.
with bramble they can still pk but they would need to use there brain more then auto attack wish is the point.
this should affect nothing but sin bm some barb and some archers. so now i ask why is bramble so hard to counter when 4 out of 10 classes would we affected by it.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Kylin: thrashtalk everyone, win TWs, serious faction -Dralighte0 -
bramble is definitely a solution to even up the pvp unbalance in this game. Wonder how many sins are gonna QQ when they go aps on a barb and are dead b4 they even realize it b:laugh but doubt this is ever gonna happen(the bramble thing) b:surrender0
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I send in tickets once in awhile about this and they respond as if they're forwarding it to the developers.... yeah do it every 4 or so months and get the same response and the same non-fix
the fact that it works in The Theater of Blood, Secret Passage, PK tournament and TW is just a insult... if it works in there obviously it is not OP
bramble hood is hardly OP it is up to the attacker to determine if they have the defense needed to survive it and if they cannot there are non-damage seals or stuns.
So the high deflect for hood is acceptable.... my computer sucks and I cannot see the graphic is not a excuse.0 -
LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL
you are about 2.5 years to late to QQ about this.Exegesis-103-Psychic--blackballs, blueballs, pinkballs, hairless balls. You got a lotta balls to be applying to Enrage...AND ask for a private denial reason? gg man. gg.0 -
Lyritha - Heavens Tear wrote: »bramble hood is hardly OP it is up to the attacker to determine if they have the defense needed to survive it and if they cannot there are non-damage seals or stuns.
The stronger the attacker, the more damage bramble does to them. The weaker the attacker, the less the veno needs to use bramble to begin with. Put demon bramble on a well-geared arcane and most melee will auto-kill themselves if they don't run in with IGs (which leaves only archers and other casters able to do anything to them). Put it on a well-geared HA and not much changes except that folks in melee won't be too happy about trying to support the casters fighting the HA.
If bramble were to work properly in all forms of PvP, it'd need to be nerfed somewhat or capped in some way so it doesn't become completely broken as gear advances. Frankly, I'd prefer to simply see SoV and mystic knockback be treated the same way as bramble and other knockbacks since that'd make things more fair to the other classes.0 -
it only would affect aps really if u see a player with bramble on pk u wont use fist that is true you would use bow and then try a good hf and kill.
beside if devs think bramble is Op do we need to remind them that stealth deaden nerv and anti all stats wish one class have is OP.
ofc i would love to let barb demon roar work in open pk its 100% bramble but take this its only 10 sec so sis it op nope.
iff devs do not wana bring bramble then nurf sin skills to make them balanaced to rest of the melee classes and make stealth nurf enough to only we usefull as a SUPPORT skill not give a spark. make the ****ing game balanced or let bramble work as i see it you cant have bouth.
wish would you guys want that all skills work as they were intended or that all classes get nurfed on there op skills in pk.
i prefer the 1st one it would balanced the classes and ppl would have to again use a brain.
see this way aps dont need to be nurfed at all just wont we as easy to aps a player like ts is working now.
actually bramble should we a personal self buff on bouth of the buffs bramble guad and bramble hood this way if you wish this protection you would have to play as a veno and veno would we a wanted class again.
i cant see how this is wrong.0 -
Seriously are you people still wondering why some things don't work in open PK? Basically you cast it on everyone and their mother and what are melees supposed to do? Tick their charm on attacking and just get two shot?
In mass PvP events they have a role, and that role is to stun and HF - Bramble isn't going to stop that. In open PK, melees play a much less supportive role, making Bramble's effects much more prominent.
If you still can't play against melees in open PK as a ranged caster, and want melees nerfed even more...in this Jones Bless R9 infested PvP era, make Bramble work in open PK.Elena Costel: I wash my hands of this affair.
Legerity: *drags you back* *stains your hands with said affair*
Elena Costel: Noooo... I don't want to have a dirty affair with Lady Legerity...
Qui: b:dirty0 -
What of BMs and barbs? Archers would use bows anyways, sins could use bow for the purge proc then switch, and seekers have skills that deal metal damage... but BMs and Barbs would be kinda SoL here. And, of course, there's the fact that if you have enough offense it is actually quite possible to kill yourself on bramble. And this is without taking into consideration that the person you're attacking would be fighting back too.VKnightV - Lost City wrote: »it only would affect aps really if u see a player with bramble on pk u wont use fist that is true you would use bow and then try a good hf and kill.
Everyone knows sins are OP in 1v1. They're pretty much the devs' baby class so let's not bring how stupid it is into this. Just because one class is so clearly nuts is no reason to make everything else go screwy.*rest of your post*
And as a veno owner, I'd love for bramble to work in open PK as well. Just that I see the need to rework the skill somewhat if it did work everywhere. After all, if you can make someone kill themselves because they have better gear than you do, there's something slightly wrong with that, don't you think?0 -
there is another thing wish i remember if ppl dont remember it.
some talk about gm talking about making aps less usefull.
and the dev did try that thing with not gaining chi from 3rd sparking i heard they qq.
so that didnt come to our server so might again our cm and gm and mods bring bramble as a effectiv counter to aps.
i mean this way you aint effecting aps by removing there chi gain from spark and you do not need to remove there aps either.
just get bramble back and i am sure it would rebalanced the playing field.
think about it for a sec a fish come out of stealth with two spark stun his victim and start to aps and dies without noticing it.
instead of a stun hit heal and use bow and kill victim. b:pleased see balanced alredy there a player have to learn to counter bramble instead of a easy kill wish is the point.
if this is not gona happen might cm tell us what cm and mods0 -
The stronger the attacker, the more damage bramble does to them. The weaker the attacker, the less the veno needs to use bramble to begin with. Put demon bramble on a well-geared arcane and most melee will auto-kill themselves if they don't run in with IGs (which leaves only archers and other casters able to do anything to them). Put it on a well-geared HA and not much changes except that folks in melee won't be too happy about trying to support the casters fighting the HA.
If bramble were to work properly in all forms of PvP, it'd need to be nerfed somewhat or capped in some way so it doesn't become completely broken as gear advances. Frankly, I'd prefer to simply see SoV and mystic knockback be treated the same way as bramble and other knockbacks since that'd make things more fair to the other classes.
I have been hit in TW and in PK instances such as the theater of blood while the skill was active... not regular bramble but the double spark skill bramble hood with its 200% damage deflect. The current end game gear can withstand returned blows from it.
Now if you're talking your run of the mil assassin who has DOTs and just keeps attacking when they shouldn't given they have stealth advantage anyone capable of simple strategy can know the skill cool down and use stealth after the skill is cast then return after it wears off.
Blademasters shouldn't die to it in anyway they can stun. Their stuns cause no damage.
People sucking at playing the game is not a excuse for it not working as it is fair in TW 1 v 1 when that happens and it is fair in Theater of Blood.0
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