GMs, fix our bramble. Seriously.
Otonio - Heavens Tear
Posts: 78 Arc User
I'm waiting for some rational explanation as to why veno's bramble guard and bramble hood don't work in PK.
You do realize that that's basically a veno's only line of defense, right? Our only heal skill sucks, soul transfusion and feral concentration are iffy, why would you take that away?
We're just sitting ducks for melee users because we have very little way to defend ourselves.
I can understand why people QQ about bramble hood-- the more you hit, the more 200% of return damage is going to hurt, but honestly? Venos are hardly OP. I honestly don't care if aps users suicide themselves hitting us... buy a bow. We have to deal wih the various buffs other classes have.
If veno's bramble skills got nerfed in PK, then fine, nerf stealth. Nerf stun. Nerf unpurgeable buffs. And WHY is it that psychic's reflect buffs work in every circumstance, given that those aren't even just melee?
Especially given now that anyone with a fac base just pan gu pot spams like a noob, I fail to understand the reasoning behind giving this huge disadvantage to venos. It's rather unfair to us. Either give it back, or let's take some skills away from other players and even out the playing field. Quit **** over one of your oldest and most quintessential classes, kthx.
You do realize that that's basically a veno's only line of defense, right? Our only heal skill sucks, soul transfusion and feral concentration are iffy, why would you take that away?
We're just sitting ducks for melee users because we have very little way to defend ourselves.
I can understand why people QQ about bramble hood-- the more you hit, the more 200% of return damage is going to hurt, but honestly? Venos are hardly OP. I honestly don't care if aps users suicide themselves hitting us... buy a bow. We have to deal wih the various buffs other classes have.
If veno's bramble skills got nerfed in PK, then fine, nerf stealth. Nerf stun. Nerf unpurgeable buffs. And WHY is it that psychic's reflect buffs work in every circumstance, given that those aren't even just melee?
Especially given now that anyone with a fac base just pan gu pot spams like a noob, I fail to understand the reasoning behind giving this huge disadvantage to venos. It's rather unfair to us. Either give it back, or let's take some skills away from other players and even out the playing field. Quit **** over one of your oldest and most quintessential classes, kthx.
me lavo las manos con la sangre de newbitos
Post edited by Otonio - Heavens Tear on
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I like how you didn't mention pets at all in the post but said that venos are defenseless.
editOtonio - Heavens Tear wrote: »Cause I don't rely on my pets to be a good veno, and neither do many venos I know.
Well then good luck since by not using your pet you're basically gimping yourself.
Using a pet will never be a disadvantage, unless a 'disadvantage' is controlling 2 things at once..but being a 'good veno' you should know how to micromanage.SashaGray - Heavens Tear wrote: »pets are almost completely useless in PK and totally useless in tw, venos nerf themselves if they rely on their pet.
You're implying that a veno can only control 1 thing at a time, the pet or yourself. Veno's nerf themselves if they RELY on their pet. They DO NOT nerf themselves if they USE their pet. There's a difference.
I dont see how you can call a class 'defenseless' when you admit you aren't utilizing the class to it's full potential (i.e. using pets)
Edit2:
Okay before you read this thread, keep in mind
that every post after about page 5 is
worthless. The thread devolves into a massive
argument involving tfi2f, Zanryu, and
TheRevenant. It's stupid.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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StormHydra - Sanctuary wrote: »I like how you didn't mention pets at all in the post and said that venos are defenseless.
Cause I don't rely on my pets to be a good veno, and neither do many venos I know.me lavo las manos con la sangre de newbitos0 -
Otonio - Heavens Tear wrote: »Cause I don't rely on my pets to be a good veno, and neither do many venos I know.
The problem is, having a pet is what makes a veno a veno; otherwise you nerf yourself to being a weak mage.b:surrender0 -
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SashaGray - Heavens Tear wrote: »pets are almost completely useless in PK and totally useless in tw, venos nerf themselves if they rely on their pet.
Unless it's a nix, with that OP bleed...b:cry0 -
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Unless it's a nix, with that OP bleed...b:cry
Um, really?
Any intelligent PKer or TWer will kill a veno's nix first, so if a veno relies on their nix for defense, they're SOL as soon as it dies off. Ideally, it'd be nice to have a backup (bramble) for when the nix (or whatever other pet) is dead.
Saying that a veno without a pet is a "weak mage" is pretty ignorant.me lavo las manos con la sangre de newbitos0 -
Otonio - Heavens Tear wrote: »Um, really?
Any intelligent PKer or TWer will kill a veno's nix first, so if a veno relies on their nix for defense, they're SOL as soon as it dies off. Ideally, it'd be nice to have a backup (bramble) for when the nix (or whatever other pet) is dead.
Saying that a veno without a pet is a "weak mage" is pretty ignorant.
Then why are you complaining about them not having bramble? If they are strong without their pet, then they wouldn't need it.
Without agreeing with me, you already proved my point.b:surrender0 -
Um, I'm sorry but as a Veno the Nix bleed is far from OP in any sense of the word, its been nerfed before, and since r9 my Nix does almost no damage to most classes. Apart from TT 99 and below geared people my Nixes bleed hardly effects people like it did a year and a half ago in TW. A veno has to be more than their pet if they're to survive and do anything, my Nix is easily killed on the battlefield but I survive to fight another day.
Bramble hood is not that bad of a skill, it is a nice defense against melee attackers and evens the playing field. I don't really see why bramble doesn't work in PK considering the Psychic's reflect skill works in PK. Then again with that reasoning one must ask why mystic's have a PvP knock back skill that works and psychic's, wizards and archer's do not.0 -
Then why are you complaining about them not having bramble? If they are strong without their pet, then they wouldn't need it.
Without agreeing with me, you already proved my point.b:surrender
That's like saying why would you want to drive a car when your bicycle is faster without training wheels. Stop being a ridiculous troll.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
GM's can't do anything about your bramble, stop asking the GM's to do anything game changing they are powerless in that department.
The Devs (aka THE DEVELOPERS OF THE GAME) are the ones you want.
de-vel-op-er/diˈveləpər/
Noun:
A person or organization that creates something.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
SashaGray - Heavens Tear wrote: »That's like saying why would you want to drive a car when your bicycle is faster without training wheels. Stop being a ridiculous troll.
What are you talking about?
I was merely saying that venos without a pet (and without bramble, as is the current case) in PK are like weak mages... Are you going to disagree with that assessment? If so, then disagree in a civil manner, instead of automatically resorting to childish name-calling.
Even in the position I'm in, I have the right to an opinion, no matter how wrong you think I might be.b:bye0 -
Then why are you complaining about them not having bramble? If they are strong without their pet, then they wouldn't need it.
Without agreeing with me, you already proved my point.b:surrender
Well, let's see.
Clerics have their many many buffs and heals. Those don't get nerfed in PK.
Archers have evasion buff/damage reducing skills. Those don't get nerfed in PK.
Barbs have turtle skills, maximum HP buffs, those don't get nerfed in PK.
BMs have increased phy def buff, plus both of their marrows. Those don't get nerfed in PK.
Wizzies have the two varying shields to change their defenses. Those don't get nerfed in PK.
Psychics have their reflect skill (soul of vengeance?), plus the silencing buff, plus white/black voodoo. Those don't get nerfed in PK.
Sins have NOT ONLY stealth, but also the evasion of attack/debuff skills, plus the one that keeps them from dying. Those don't get nerfed in PK.
Mystics have heals, plus the wood/phy def buff. Those don't get nerfed in PK.
Can't say much on behalf of seekers, because their skills in general seem a little lacklustre, but perhaps one can chime in.
Venos have bramble... and summer sprint. Obviously summer sprint isn't terribly useful in PVP situations unless you're running away like a noob... so that leaves bramble.
All of the above classes are strong without pets, so let's put pets aside. Even without them, venomancers are severely lacking in self defense skills. I understand that pets are an additional element to venos, but I'm sure mystics could back me up on not relying on their pets to be strong.
It makes no sense for you to take away our one buff. I'm honestly a little disappointed. I was expecting flaming, but from a mod? Since you're someone in a position of power, how about an actual answer as to why this was done instead of trying to win an argument?me lavo las manos con la sangre de newbitos0 -
Otonio - Heavens Tear wrote: »It makes no sense for you to take away our one buff. I'm honestly a little disappointed. I was expecting flaming, but from a mod? Since you're someone in a position of power, how about an actual answer as to why this was done instead of trying to win an argument?
I'm not trying to win any argument, I'm trying to avoid one by pointing out that my opinion is my own.
Also, I have no answer for you as to why Bramble was nerfed, and neither will the GMs here (unless they first ask China). It is nerfed here because the devs on the Chinese game (from which our version is translated) felt that it needed to be nerfed there.
EDIT: Also, I'm not flaming. I'm actually making more of a case for you guys to have Bramble, if you read my posts thoroughly. Where did I say that you shouldn't have it? I merely made the point that you should have a pet, and rely a little on it. Without it, you are a weak mage... which means that you guys should be somewhat helped. Bramble, I agree, would be a good addition to a veno's repertoire.0 -
Otonio - Heavens Tear wrote: »
(stuff that doesn't matter)
I was expecting flaming, but from a mod? Since you're someone in a position of power, how about an actual answer as to why this was done instead of trying to win an argument?
Mod of the forums will know all game secrets, yeah sure.b:laugh[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Damage immunity skill, anti stun to go along with that, 15m/s speed indefinitely, fox form, and a pet that can stun your attacker as soon as they go after you. Even if they go for your pet first that still buys you time to target them and launch a counter attack.
Stop crying and learn your class.0 -
1) a veno with demon fox form can perma-run 10m/s without a mount. No melee class could chase them down for long. Sins can for a short time until stuff gets to cool-down.
2)They're long ranged
3) They have nix. The nix itself isn't enough, but if combined with a veno - duh. Oh and the nix can stun.
4)Long ranged stun with short cooldown
5)They can purge 100% success. =/ =/ =/
6) They can amp
If bramble worked in pk, no melee class could touch anyone who is tanky enough. EVER. - as shown when SP was pk-enabled.
Soul of vengeance barely reflects anything and it can onlybe cast on one person at a time. The damage only is high when the psy himself has a high soulfource, whereas veno's buff has a highdamage output no matter what.0 -
Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »Damage immunity skill, anti stun to go along with that, 15m/s speed indefinitely, fox form, and a pet that can stun your attacker as soon as they go after you. Even if they go for your pet first that still buys you time to target them and launch a counter attack.
Stop crying and learn your class.
None of those things are unique to venos, save fox form, which is unique only in animal choice.. learn other classes before you try to act like an expert on ours.
I don't find KrittyCat's brushing off of my question satisfactory, nor completely true based on what I've been hearing from people. If you're so powerless, then tell me who to get in touch with and I'll gladly do it. It will never get resolved if people don't speak out against it, and I sincerely hope that other venos realize about this ridiculous nerf against our class and will also find it unfair so hopefully it can get resolved someday.Lord_Shinra - Archosaur wrote: »1) a veno with demon fox form can perma-run 10m/s without a mount. No melee class could chase them down for long. Sins can for a short time until stuff gets to cool-down.
2)They're long ranged
3) They have nix. The nix itself isn't enough, but if combined with a veno - duh. Oh and the nix can stun.
4)Long ranged stun with short cooldown
5)They can purge 100% success. =/ =/ =/
6) They can amp
If bramble worked in pk, no melee class could touch anyone who is tanky enough. EVER. - as shown when SP was pk-enabled.
Soul of vengeance barely reflects anything and it can onlybe cast on one person at a time. The damage only is high when the psy himself has a high soulfource, whereas veno's buff has a highdamage output no matter what.
While you do have a good point about a constant high damage output from bramble (given that the attacker does a lot of damage), purge isn't really 100% successful now that there's a whole gamut of unpurgeable buffs, not to mention barb's turtle skills.
I still don't think the things you've mentioned are enough to warrant veno's being "op," and still don't answer the question as to why we in particular got our buff nerfed. Yes, they make a veno harder to kill, but that just makes it more of a challenge.. That's no reason to deny a class their defenses.me lavo las manos con la sangre de newbitos0 -
What are you talking about?
I was merely saying that venos without a pet (and without bramble, as is the current case) in PK are like weak mages... Are you going to disagree with that assessment? If so, then disagree in a civil manner, instead of automatically resorting to childish name-calling.
Even in the position I'm in, I have the right to an opinion, no matter how wrong you think I might be.b:bye
Hate saying it, but if you search by name, you pretty much find that that particular person pretty much just posts posts like that. Figure out how to get the forum ignore function to work and it makes it much more pleasant.
As for Pets. When I'm on my Archer in TW, and I see a Veno/Nix, I wait for the Nix to get out away from the Veno, then I stun it, and end it's life in a very quick, efficient manner. This usually unbalances the Veno, and gives me a moment to kill either the Veno or someone else in their squad.
I've seen Venos kite back away from the 'front lines' only to be facerolled by a random Sin, summon a new air pet (which tends to be a 1 or 2 shot for me), or in one case, summon a second Nix (wtf!). Some will drop to the ground and pull out a Herc. But in almost every case, there's 3 to 10 seconds where they're not purging, attacking, or doing anything constructive, which can open possibilities up for breaking their squad apart or wiping it out.101 Sage Sin*/Archer
100 Demon BM*/Barb
96 Demon Cleric/Sage Seeker
95 Demon Wiz/
94 Sage Veno
85 Psy/80 Mystic
And a handful of other alts, all 79 and under.
*Pre RB level0 -
Sarrafeline - Sanctuary wrote: »Hate saying it, but if you search by name, you pretty much find that that particular person pretty much just posts posts like that. Figure out how to get the forum ignore function to work and it makes it much more pleasant.
As for Pets. When I'm on my Archer in TW, and I see a Veno/Nix, I wait for the Nix to get out away from the Veno, then I stun it, and end it's life in a very quick, efficient manner. This usually unbalances the Veno, and gives me a moment to kill either the Veno or someone else in their squad.
I've seen Venos kite back away from the 'front lines' only to be facerolled by a random Sin, summon a new air pet (which tends to be a 1 or 2 shot for me), or in one case, summon a second Nix (wtf!). Some will drop to the ground and pull out a Herc. But in almost every case, there's 3 to 10 seconds where they're not purging, attacking, or doing anything constructive, which can open possibilities up for breaking their squad apart or wiping it out.
Then by all means run away to a safe place. A veno can run 10+ m/s permanently. Since you're talking about TW, guess what happens to the sin that tried to kill the veno in the middle of the enemy?0 -
I think it should be un nurf'd but only as a self buff and stay nurf'd for party buff. But really they need to increase pets dmg i gave up on my veno awhile ago. There pets are awesome at lower lvls but once you get to a high lvl they just dont do enough dmg.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0
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if u dont like to rely on ur pet for defensive purposes..
go reroll since u want to be a wood mage..
plenty of venos adapted to the fact that bramble doesnt work in pk..
why cant u?Attacking at the speed of Suck since 20090 -
if this was brought bck i think it should be changed some how for pvp could make B guard just reflect 20% if atked by a player and B hood should just stay the way it is it costs 2 sparks so i think its fair enough how does tht sound sounds pretty fair to meCollector of pet eggs, armor, weapons, fashion, and mountsb:chuckle0
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Bramble + HA = good luck killing the veno for a melee class b:bye[SIGPIC]http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=14516063001&dateline=1364756666[/SIGPIC] Ty Silvy
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Otonio - Heavens Tear wrote: »I don't find KrittyCat's brushing off of my question satisfactory, nor completely true based on what I've been hearing from people. If you're so powerless, then tell me who to get in touch with and I'll gladly do it. It will never get resolved if people don't speak out against it, and I sincerely hope that other venos realize about this ridiculous nerf against our class and will also find it unfair so hopefully it can get resolved someday.
I was brushing off your question? And what part of it was against what you've been hearing?b:puzzled
I've never had any power of any sort whatsoever, except to edit/move/close posts and threads here on the forums.
Also, players have spoken out about this subject many, many times before you. Don't think that you're the first to come up with the idea.b:chuckle0 -
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As a veno myself, I would love to see this change happen. However, personally I think 60% (or 75%) reflect is way too much. If it were to be implemented it should still retain its reflective nature, just nerfed a little bit. Maybe down to 25-20%? As for bramble hood, well... 200% reflect for a 2spark 'ulti' isn't too much. Besides, any attacker can see you channeling bramble hood; it has its own unique animation. That gives then time to stop attacking so.. What's the problem, really?
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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Atlantasia - Sanctuary wrote: »I don't really see why bramble doesn't work in PK considering the Psychic's reflect skill works in PK. Then again with that reasoning one must ask why mystic's have a PvP knock back skill that works and psychic's, wizards and archer's do not.
Valid points imo.AKA PermaSpark, Heartshatter0 -
The problem is, having a pet is what makes a veno a veno; otherwise you nerf yourself to being a weak mage.b:surrenderUnless it's a nix, with that OP bleed...b:cryThen why are you complaining about them not having bramble? If they are strong without their pet, then they wouldn't need it.
Without agreeing with me, you already proved my point.b:surrender
These posts. These posts from the front page. These posts made my blood crawl because of how incredibly, unfathomably, utterly stupid and cretinously moronic the poster must be to have made them.
Play a veno before you talk about pets being OP. Nix is I emphatically assert, NOT IN THE LEAST BIT overpowered. It's a joke.0 -
Lord_Shinra - Archosaur wrote: »1) a veno with demon fox form can perma-run 10m/s without a mount. No melee class could chase them down for long. Sins can for a short time until stuff gets to cool-down.
2)They're long ranged
3) They have nix. The nix itself isn't enough, but if combined with a veno - duh. Oh and the nix can stun.
4)Long ranged stun with short cooldown
5)They can purge 100% success. =/ =/ =/
6) They can amp
Purge and amp get cancelled out because using them ruins your kiting. From the time you get into 10m range of any melee class to purge or amp, you either die, or get ganked...which means you die.
There is no other caster class whose skills require him to get up in his opponent's face and use things at 10m range. NONE. Go play a veno before you talk BS. Archers can purge you from 30m+ range. Why should veno purge be at 10m?0
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