GMs, fix our bramble. Seriously.
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Okay, so now that the bickering is calming down, I'm going to come back again to the crux of the matter:
1. Why should a caster class have a 10m range on two skills that are ESSENTIAL to them being able to PK, due to their low DD. Venos need to purge to kill BMs, Barbs, Seekers, and well geared Psys and Wizards. This is an absolute fact.
2. Why should psys have a reflect, and have it work on all types of damage, when venos, whose reflect only works on melee phsy damage have theirs nurfed.
3. Why should our only practical defensive damage reduction skill require 2 sparks every 30 seconds, when we don't actually get the reflect effect from it, thereby making it not worth 20 sparks?
4. And also, I append the other points made by other venos.
If you cannot answer these, then leave the thread and stop heckling the veno voicing effort. Go play your own class and let venos worry about theirs.snufalufaguss wrote:What about WoG? Sure it will only lasts a few seconds, but those few seconds could be the best time of your life.
Not to mention that they also get an antistun right after.0 -
TheRevenant - Lost City wrote: »says the random ? avater veno who is probably just as unimportant.
Ps: Zanryu you're an archer? i always saw you as a cleric
Yeah, I wish someone would have told me.. here I was useing axes and fists for PvP, man I sure suck at being an Archer.
By the way, tf...
1. Purge isn't an essential skill for killing most enemies. Especially if they're only self buffed.
2. Wouldn't know, I never understood that myself.
3. Really? Having the chance to save yourself isn't worth two sparks? I guess Barbs shouldn't use Invoke either, I mean it takes two sparks and has a long cooldown so it's worthless.
4. .
Also, read through my posts.. I never said Archers had no damage immunity skill, just that they have no actual defensive buff. The only thing they get is an evasion buff and a fire damage buff.0 -
What I'm seeing It's only people and mods trolling, like a former Wizard let me say something instead of those noobs:
Wizard is the most fail class... untill lv9x++ when they get a lot of -cast% gears, then a Wizard can two shot a Nix, if they go demon the job It's easier. Good luck for those lv100+ Wizards that we have on this forum, because Isn't easy for reach the level that you guys have, but most certainly worth.
Next Nix, if I had money for buy a Nix I wasn't playing with Sin, since I like more to play like Veno than Sin, also people nowdays don't have only the Twilight gear for endgame armor like we had in the past, the game time nerfed Itself the Nix. I don't know if the players here are morons or what, we can see the Venos complaining in many threads that Nix Isn't effective like It was in the past, we have genie skills for anti-bleeding too if this Is the problem.
I don't see the reason for nerf Bramble Guard, Venomancers have the highest HP pool of the magic chars because they was made (I belive) for be DURABLE, the Veno Isn't the char that kill (I'm not saying that they can't kill), but they are the char that most certainly will help you to kill someone, Venomancers are an great damage support and good PK partners.
And for Bramble Hood... this is the kind of skill that once you die for a Veno using It you don't make the same mistake twice, unless youre a failure, this skill have a heavy two chi for a Veno (Veno Is hard for get chi you know that?) and only have 15 secounds of duration, It means that you should stun/sleep/silence the Veno and run away, or kill their pet if you alread didin't killed It.
Last, stop to talk like if Venos play without their pets, this was the most fail argument that I saw here.0 -
No it doesnt have any real affect on flying, go fly past any mob that shoots ice at you since it normaly comes with an anoying slow, and you will see thatSlows work in the air, and even if I'm wrong about that it really doesn't make any point -- I have a veno, a wiz and a low level archer. I main my veno, and to my knowledge my slows worked on my wiz, or they look like it, which is why I also use Gush in the air; regardless of whether or not that was placebo, it invalidates nothing.I
A lot of people0 -
It's coaled balance. Wanna know why purge on a bow proc is so nasty? Because you get hit before knowing wtf happened and suddenly all your buffs are gone, making you as good as dead. Venos only need amp/purge when in the mid to high-end teir of gear. At the low end, ream is OP. At the very high end, everyone can 1-shot everyone else... except sins who are immune to 1-shots.1. Why should a caster class have a 10m range on two skills that are ESSENTIAL to them being able to PK, due to their low DD. Venos need to purge to kill BMs, Barbs, Seekers, and well geared Psys and Wizards. This is an absolute fact.
While we've all agreed that psy reflect being available while venos isn't is unfair, you're ignoring something important in favor of QQ. With Bramble, the stronger your opponent, the easier they kill themselves... and it's spammable and can be used on ANYONE. With SoV, the psy casting it is the one that has to be strong for it to be more than a slight annoyance... and it can only be cast on one person for the duration of the buff. While we've all agreed hood is fine as is, normal bramble would need a massive nerf if it were to work in open PK.2. Why should psys have a reflect, and have it work on all types of damage, when venos, whose reflect only works on melee phsy damage have theirs nurfed.
.... Are you stupid or something? You use hood for the damage reduction, not reflect. Considering it reduces ALL incoming damage by 75% for the duration with no limits (making it, essentially, an invoke for venos) only a noob would QQ over the lack of reflect. The 200% melee reflect would just be icing on the cake that those who are competent as venos would abuse to the fullest.3. Why should our only practical defensive damage reduction skill require 2 sparks every 30 seconds, when we don't actually get the reflect effect from it, thereby making it not worth 20 sparks?
How about this thread have a requirement for knowledge of game basics before people are allowed to comment in it? It'd weed out a whole lot of people, yourself included.If you cannot answer these, then leave the thread and stop heckling the veno voicing effort. Go play your own class and let venos worry about theirs.
Edit: Oh and as for chi complaints... venos can give themselves free sparks with sage/demon lending hand. Closest other classes can get to that is master li's (sages in general), awaken (hellz yes 15 minute cooldown!), and.... assassins but they don't count.0 -
Um, Hood only reduces physical damage b:surrender0
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Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »1. Purge isn't an essential skill for killing most enemies. Especially if they're only self buffed.
Wrong. Go play a veno. Endgame PvP requires every advantage you have. It's not like I only want to PK TT99 and rank 8s. Or is that what you were thinking?2. Wouldn't know, I never understood that myself.
Thanks -- that's all I wanted you to say.3. Really? Having the chance to save yourself isn't worth two sparks? I guess Barbs shouldn't use Invoke either, I mean it takes two sparks and has a long cooldown so it's worthless.
Barbs also wear HA and have very large HP pools, and their run speed can rival venos. Coming into a Veno problem discussion thread to tell venos that their complaints are irrelevant because of the skill set of a barbarian is beyond illogical. The wizard comparison made more sense, tbh.
Kk, so leave venos to discuss their problems and try to have their voices heard please? Let them be free to propose solutions to frustrations they have with their class as they play is from day to day. Thanks....... Are you stupid or something? You use hood for the damage reduction, not reflect. Considering it reduces ALL incoming damage by 75% for the duration with no limits (making it, essentially, an invoke for venos) only a noob would QQ over the lack of reflect. The 200% melee reflect would just be icing on the cake that those who are competent as venos would abuse to the fullest.
Go and READ MY POST AGAIN, and see that my wording meant the following:
"Bramble hood currently requires 2 sparks. It has 2 inscribed effects: (1) Reflect 200% of melee damage. (2) 75% damage reduction. We do not get the reflect effect, so therefore it is not worth 2 sparks; 2 sparks for a 15 second damage reduction is too much."
If you want to contrast that, then look at Plume Shell and even Feral concentration. Feral is 1 spark for 10 seconds of IMMUNITY. Realistically speaking, since we do not get the reflect, Hood is not worth 2 sparks and the chi requirement should be significantly lowered.How about this thread have a requirement for knowledge of game basics before people are allowed to comment in it? It'd weed out a whole lot of people, yourself included.
I agree fully. I also think there should be a certain minimum English reading and comprehension prowess requirement.0 -
Wrong. Go play a veno. Endgame PvP requires every advantage you have. It's not like I only want to PK TT99 and rank 8s. Or is that what you were thinking?
Thanks -- that's all I wanted you to say.
Barbs also wear HA and have very large HP pools, and their run speed can rival venos. Coming into a Veno problem discussion thread to tell venos that their complaints are irrelevant because of the skill set of a barbarian is beyond illogical. The wizard comparison made more sense, tbh.
Kk, so leave venos to discuss their problems and try to have their voices heard please? Let them be free to propose solutions to frustrations they have with their class as they play is from day to day. Thanks...
if you only wanted venos to discuss this then i request a MOD to move this to the rightful section of the forum, The Venomancer Discussion subforum0 -
Wrong. Go play a veno. Endgame PvP requires every advantage you have. It's not like I only want to PK TT99 and rank 8s. Or is that what you were thinking?
The only time purge would make any real difference is if someone is fully buffed or if they use a damage reducing/defense raising genie skill/apo. Otherwise they'll just reapply whatever buffs you purged off unless you have enough damage output to kill them then and there, which you can't because venos are soooo underpowered. Right? Right?
Anyway... nearly every other class has to make due without purging their opponent, Venomancers have the same capability to do so, even if they have to go about it more tactfully.
Thanks -- that's all I wanted you to say.
Barbs also wear HA and have very large HP pools, and their run speed can rival venos. Coming into a Veno problem discussion thread to tell venos that their complaints are irrelevant because of the skill set of a barbarian is beyond illogical. The wizard comparison made more sense, tbh.
Your whole argument is the spark consumption, because of that you think it's pretty much worthless without the reflect. It's simply not true, I was merely using a class with a similar skill as a comparison.
Kk, so leave venos to discuss their problems and try to have their voices heard please? Let them be free to propose solutions to frustrations they have with their class as they play is from day to day. Thanks...
Replies in red.0 -
TheRevenant - Lost City wrote: »if you only wanted venos to discuss this then i request a MOD to move this to the rightful section of the forum, The Venomancer Discussion subforum
Go read the post again. Take a few reads and read it over again. English is a complex language and there are many, many subtle changes in meaning to the interpretation of a sentence when even a single word is added or omitted, or glossed over. Go read my post again and see if your response made any sense.0 -
Go read the post again. Take a few reads and read it over again. English is a complex language and there are many, many subtle changes in meaning to the interpretation of a sentence when even a single word is added or omitted, or glossed over. Go read my post again and see if your response made any sense.
Obviously too complex for you, judging from the errors you constantly make. b:surrender0 -
i was gonna reply here but then noted it wasnt worth the effort as some are really into veno underpowered ... there for half the rpks are venoes but lets nerf pets to i mean that groth rate on them nerf it to veno own stats i wanna see a veno pet with less then 4k hp and 2k pdef and talking about useless 2 spark moves go look seeker zhen and edged blur zhen is useless in pvp cuz no reliable stuns ppl move out of it so fast and edged blur usefull in some case but only last 12 sec so plz gm make our zhen 50 chi b:surrender100% F2P legit 105 since starting this game. Full rank9 jaded +12 seeker. .tinyurl.com/nocashshopHaters gona hate cuz they cant play a game0
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Go read the post again. Take a few reads and read it over again. English is a complex language and there are many, many subtle changes in meaning to the interpretation of a sentence when even a single word is added or omitted, or glossed over. Go read my post again and see if your response made any sense.
you want venos to voice their problems, discuss the problems with skills and suggest fixes
that means this belongs in either VENO sub forum if venos are going to discuss each other or SUGGESTION BOX since you want to suggest fixes0 -
/ragequit \o/
It's only me anyway, against about 2-3 others, I can only keep refreshing the page and disproving simultaneous focus fire for so long. GG, venos don't need any help. 2 sparks for their only practical defense skill is logical. I should stop QQing and rely on a skill that has a 5 minute cooldown so that I can have A WHOLE LONG AMAZING 10 seconds of immunity every FIVE MINUTES. I should use my 2 sparks for Nova so I can freeze/seal 66% chance for 8 seconds. That's worth 2 sparks.
I should stop QQing. My nix does negligable damage against endgame opponents and my class has the lowest DD of all casters. I also have only ONE control skill that doesn't require sparks, so I have to choose whether to use my sparks on Hood, Stunning Blow or Freezing Scarab.
I'm sure that means I should use them on scarab naturally, and not on my damage reduction skill. I should stop QQing so much. My class affords me good coverage of a wide range of situations, and bolsters me well with a nice array of strategic advantages so be used skillfully in PvP, such as control skills.
/ragequit.0 -
bramble is broken? its been working as intended for years. those qq'ing to get reflect turned on in world pvp obviously don't tw, it works there, and it's so overwhelmingly powerful that melee classes solo themselves on normal bramble. l2play an op class or gtfo0
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Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »Um, Hood only reduces physical damage b:surrender
It's actually both, just most don't realize it because they kinda assume from the reflect and nobody corrects them.
This SS of damage log I took literally 30 seconds ago on an undergeared arcane veno pretty much shows it. First two hits are with hood, the rest are when it faded. vs Yan the traitor at range where he's throwing rocks (were the rocks phys, the veno would have been taking 4 digit damage once hood wore off).0 -
/ragequit \o/
It's only me anyway, against about 2-3 others, I can only keep refreshing the page and disproving simultaneous focus fire for so long. GG, venos don't need any help. 2 sparks for their only practical defense skill is logical. I should stop QQing and rely on a skill that has a 5 minute cooldown so that I can have A WHOLE LONG AMAZING 10 seconds of immunity every FIVE MINUTES. I should use my 2 sparks for Nova so I can freeze/seal 66% chance for 8 seconds. That's worth 2 sparks.
I should stop QQing. My nix does negligable damage against endgame opponents and my class has the lowest DD of all casters. I also have only ONE control skill that doesn't require sparks, so I have to choose whether to use my sparks on Hood, Stunning Blow or Freezing Scarab.
I'm sure that means I should use them on scarab naturally, and not on my damage reduction skill. I should stop QQing so much. My class affords me good coverage of a wide range of situations, and bolsters me well with a nice array of strategic advantages so be used skillfully in PvP, such as control skills.
/ragequit.
Here, let me get you a donut, it must be hard to sit with all that butthurt0 -
Yo, Zan. Did you see my post at the bottom of the last page? If you have a veno, it's useful. If you fight venos, it's also useful. b:cute0
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Yo, Zan. Did you see my post at the bottom of the last page? If you have a veno, it's useful. If you fight venos, it's also useful. b:cute
LIAR! The screenshot honestly proves nothing seeing as you can't see which attacks he's actually using on you in it, besides... IT R DOEZ REDUKT PHYZ DUMAGE!!!!0 -
... I'm on a forum! *cue old spice theme*0
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OP has quit the topic this thread should now be closed where is kritty when you need him0
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TheRevenant - Lost City wrote: »OP has quit the topic this thread should now be closed where is kritty when you need him
Off trolling somewhere probably, before this closes let it be known that Hood does indeed reduce magic damage! b:avoid0 -
Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »Off trolling somewhere probably, before this closes let it be known that Hood does indeed reduce magic damage! b:avoid
b:laughb:thanks0 -
Lol, or I was asleep? Job, work, etc.
Gosh, so many replies, hard to address them all... had to light on:Lord_Shinra - Archosaur wrote: »Then by all means run away to a safe place. A veno can run 10+ m/s permanently.
Cause that just... lol.
People keep acting like feral concentration is some sort of justification for our bramble having been nerfed.. Feral concentration is a **** skill. It wastes a spark, it has a 5min cooldown, and it stuns you. So okay I use it, I'm immune for a few seconds, and then whatever aps user can go back to beating the **** out of me? All that did was buy me a few seconds to look like an idiot standing there. Oh, I should have used AD before casting it? Most likely if I'm using feral concentration, it's because I already used expel and I've still got some melee trying to **** me to pieces.
It'd sure be nice to watch an aps user suicide themselves if I used my three sparks to bramblehood, then feral concentration, though.
(edit: in hindsight, you're right, this was a stupid oversight, thanks maiira xd)
Anyway, while I appreciate your lively debate it seems like many of you are getting caught up in irrelevant semantics... I just want my bramble skill.bramble is broken? its been working as intended for years. those qq'ing to get reflect turned on in world pvp obviously don't tw, it works there, and it's so overwhelmingly powerful that melee classes solo themselves on normal bramble. l2play an op class or gtfo
hood doesn't... try it out sometime.
There's really no need for the flame war, and perhaps some of you don't like bramble cause you've killed yourself against it in duels, but learn from your mistakes. It's a part of our class and seeing as it's still in the game, there's really no reason we shouldn't be able to take advantage of it.me lavo las manos con la sangre de newbitos0 -
hood then feral would be the biggest waste ever cause it reflects based on damage you take. if your immune to damage u don't reflect anything. if bramble was allowed aps users would have to just get smarter... or do what the 5.0 sins in sp learned. hit absolute domain when u start hitting a brambled veno since your immune to the reflection. but hey. my veno ***** allot of sins in sp cause they couldn't comprehend anything other than auto attack. for anything that anyone is given. there is a way to get around it. if you actively pk and you dont use every weapon available to you in your arsenal then you have gimped yourself. with genie skills and apothecary and pets and fighting in 3 dimensions with air. there are alot of possibilities to counter whatever can be faced. just need to stop QQing cause its "believed" that 1 skill will be the maker/breaker of your class. when there are a lot of other options.
though ill admit the unpurgable buffs and psychics having a reflect ability that works in pvp is a bit unfair.lvl101 LA/AA demon veno ftw, 15251 hp buffed, 13508 buffed pdef in human. able to use tt100 fists at 5 aps w/ genie. all from 2 years of work... WASTED
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
was fun while it lasted0 -
I agree with the OP. Bramble (and archer's knockback arrow) should work in pvp. Newer classes have skills that have the same effect and aren't nerfed in pvp. It won't give venos a huge advantage, but it will help.
Like other venos have said, pets are only useful in pvp while they're alive. Everybody goes for the pets first, then most arcane venos are easy to kill.
I see lots of people in this thread complaining about veno's speed buffs and invincibility skills. There's a couple of things I'd like to point out. Sage venos can not run 10m/s forever. Even if they could, you can't attack and run at the same time. Everybody has the ability to use holy path too, so this "advantage" is completely useless. As far as feral concentration (invincibility buff) goes, we can't move during it, it takes one spark, and has a five minute cooldown. Think how great that works in TW. And besides, everbody has spark, which also makes you invincible for 3 seconds.
Veno's are great for a lot of things, but there's a reason there's not too many new ones being created. They just aren't as useful as the new, overpowered classes.0 -
Otonio - Heavens Tear wrote: »I'm waiting for some rational explanation as to why veno's bramble guard and bramble hood don't work in PK.
You do realize that that's basically a veno's only line of defense, right? Our only heal skill sucks, soul transfusion and feral concentration are iffy, why would you take that away?
We're just sitting ducks for melee users because we have very little way to defend ourselves.
I can understand why people QQ about bramble hood-- the more you hit, the more 200% of return damage is going to hurt, but honestly? Venos are hardly OP. I honestly don't care if aps users suicide themselves hitting us... buy a bow. We have to deal wih the various buffs other classes have.
If veno's bramble skills got nerfed in PK, then fine, nerf stealth. Nerf stun. Nerf unpurgeable buffs. And WHY is it that psychic's reflect buffs work in every circumstance, given that those aren't even just melee?
Especially given now that anyone with a fac base just pan gu pot spams like a noob, I fail to understand the reasoning behind giving this huge disadvantage to venos. It's rather unfair to us. Either give it back, or let's take some skills away from other players and even out the playing field. Quit **** over one of your oldest and most quintessential classes, kthx.
I rarely do pk, but in PvE the reflect buff is great. We're lucky most bosses don't got it (even thought a veno will be wanted in every squad just to purge if they did).Devs, fix venos purge. Seriously. It should have only a 50% chance and a 24h cooldown. Most rpker r venos - for a reason. Cz its an easy mode CS class (nix) which is op. Fix it, seriously.
Fine, try to kill the Ape boss in HH2-2 and HH2-3 or any other boss that buffs itself.Yami_ - Dreamweaver wrote: »What I'm seeing It's only people and mods trolling, like a former Wizard let me say something instead of those noobs:
Wizard is the most fail class... untill lv9x++ when they get a lot of -cast% gears, then a Wizard can two shot a Nix, if they go demon the job It's easier. Good luck for those lv100+ Wizards that we have on this forum, because Isn't easy for reach the level that you guys have, but most certainly worth.
Next Nix, if I had money for buy a Nix I wasn't playing with Sin, since I like more to play like Veno than Sin, also people nowdays don't have only the Twilight gear for endgame armor like we had in the past, the game time nerfed Itself the Nix. I don't know if the players here are morons or what, we can see the Venos complaining in many threads that Nix Isn't effective like It was in the past, we have genie skills for anti-bleeding too if this Is the problem.
I don't see the reason for nerf Bramble Guard, Venomancers have the highest HP pool of the magic chars because they was made (I belive) for be DURABLE, the Veno Isn't the char that kill (I'm not saying that they can't kill), but they are the char that most certainly will help you to kill someone, Venomancers are an great damage support and good PK partners.
And for Bramble Hood... this is the kind of skill that once you die for a Veno using It you don't make the same mistake twice, unless youre a failure, this skill have a heavy two chi for a Veno (Veno Is hard for get chi you know that?) and only have 15 secounds of duration, It means that you should stun/sleep/silence the Veno and run away, or kill their pet if you alread didin't killed It.
Last, stop to talk like if Venos play without their pets, this was the most fail argument that I saw here.
I agree with every word you just said.Getting back onto PWI again. Should be fun XD
Rubride - Lv100 Sage Amp Veno (2nd Reborn)0 -
The problem is, having a pet is what makes a veno a veno; otherwise you nerf yourself to being a weak mage.b:surrender
Good joke. Nix is a one shot these days. Can't even bother rezzing that thing all the time in TW.
WTB bramble in pk. b:cute And bramble hood too. Oh and working 100 skills too while you're at it, thanks much.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0
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