Cube Should Not Be Pk Enabled!!!!

LenieClarke - Heavens Tear

Eoria - Harshlands wrote: »

It doesn't matter. PK is a part of the challenge of Cube otherwise it wouldn't be enabled in certain rooms (obvious exception being rm1).

if PK is "part of the challenge", why do you think it is "obvious" that there should be any exceptions to it at all, ever?

you're posting from a PvP server, saying there should be enforced PvP in some parts of the PvE servers. do you also object to having safe zones --- any safe zones, anywhere, ever --- on the PvP servers? if not, why not? surely it'd be more of a challenge if there were no such things.

some fine day, i'd like to be involved in designing an MMO. i'd make PvE servers and PvP servers. the PvE ones would have dueling, down the PW lines only more nerfed; nothing else --- no going whitenamed. the PvP ones would have no such thing as blue names --- not at any level --- and no safe zones, anywhere. those who wanted to PK, would know where to go do it. i can imagine the whining and QQing there would be, and i would laugh and laugh and laugh.

Eoria - Harshlands

Zoe - Heavens Tear wrote: »

To these people, it IS a big deal. When you are blue named you are as such for the express purpose of being impossible to pk.

It's not a big deal to get pked. Especially in Cube where you don't drop anything. And it's not like dice tickets/do-alls are that expensive either.

Once again, PK is part of the challenge of Cube. Stop whining about it.

Zoe - Heavens Tear

Eoria - Harshlands wrote: »

It's not a big deal to get pked. Especially in Cube where you don't drop anything. And it's not like dice tickets/do-alls are that expensive either.

Once again, PK is part of the challenge of Cube. Stop whining about it.

You stop being an idiot about it. These people are on a pve server to AVOID ALL FORMS OF PVP while being able to do every aspect of pve. Get it through your head.b:surrender

In my view, the only place pk should be possible ever, is in a place like TW where the entire purpose of the place is pk. If there is anything to do other than pk, pk should not be allowed. (unless you are white named)

Angel_Spawn - Sanctuary

You can`t expect pvp "hardcore" players to understand why most people roll on pve servers b:bye

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I knew that I just wanted to point out the silliness of the argument that you PK because you wanna control the market price of PoF. It's a pointless reason to PK people because you can't successfully do it. And now your real reason came out, you do it because you can and you don't care how others feel about it. You're not really gaining anything by doing that. Well not anything tangible. Well as tangible as digital items can be...You don't gain anything from PK in the cube except for the two pk rooms in which case you save a little money on do-all cards. In the other forced pvp instances, this is not the case at all. The only thing to gain from PK in the cube is the satisfaction in ruining someone elses progress and wasting their money.

I doubt anyone play this game for anything tangible. If I wanted something to show for my time... I won't be here playing this game. Considering that after what... 4-5k of gold spent on gears... I still haven't got a piece of **** to show for it all. And let me correct you there... my reason for playing this game... especially when i do pk people... WILL ALWAYS BE TO **** THEM OVER. That shall always be the primary reason... anything else I said will always take second place to that.

Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Even though, y'know, your "market protection" theory has been proven wrong by at least three people now? Yeah. You keep telling yourself that, buddy. Keep trying to rationalize what can't be rationalized. *goes to make more popcorn and watch*

Proven wrong by who... you and that other one shot cleric... both non-factor in any scheme of things? I am still waiting for your explanation of how a page of fate... that supposedly can cost less then 16k to get (you own numbers of 8k to room 32) can sell for 400k. If anyone can enter cube and drop 16k to get a page... why would they pay 400k for it. The mark up is only there because of the danger associated with cube... either its the 100 second stand rooms, the pk rooms, the jail rooms, or just people like me... who will **** you over for their own agenda.

Zoe - Heavens Tear

This is why mmos end up failing in the end. They fail to permaban people like kiyoshi. The moment a player starts doing things for the sole purpose of **** over other players, they need to be permanently removed from the game.

KLisa - Dreamweaver

If not for the PK enabled rooms, the cube will not be a chalenge. The only room i find dificult (if not the pk enabled) is the last 100s stand, tho with charm and food i can just run around there without a problem. Rooms 14 and 34 give a thrill to the instance. I hate being pk-ed without any purpose like in room 48 where we dig only chest, but i can live with it.
Without the pk enabled rooms the Cube will be just another eaaaaaaaasy farmable instance.
And remember: the Cube is instance based on luck. Some days i would pass it in 15 minutes, other (rarely) in 2 hoursb:pleased

Miugre - Heavens Tear

Zoe - Heavens Tear wrote: »

where the entire purpose of the place is pk

Let me restate (for anyone/everyone), that this is half my argument.

The other, more important half being, PK should not be enabled in situations where it does not directly and quantifiably benefit the PKer (i.e. in the form of items, experience, etc. as a direct result of PKing the other player).

tl;dr There is NO valid reason anyone should be PKing in Cube other than rooms 14 and 34 because they will NEVER receive any direct, measurable benefit from it. There is no rationalization for it. The only reason it is done is for the express purpose of causing hardship to others.

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote:

Proven wrong by who... you and that other one shot cleric... both non-factor in any scheme of things? I am still waiting for your explanation of how a page of fate... that supposedly can cost less then 16k to get (you own numbers of 8k to room 32) can sell for 400k. If anyone can enter cube and drop 16k to get a page... why would they pay 400k for it. The mark up is only there because of the danger associated with cube... either its the 100 second stand rooms, the pk rooms, the jail rooms, or just people like me... who will **** you over for their own agenda.

I already gave you a handful of reasons three or four pages back, which you ignored in favor of irrelevant posturing (despite the fact that you even quoted it, which is really amazing). Try responding to what's already out there before you conveniently forget it, because I refuse to dignify your inflammatory non-logic of "factors" and "losers."

SinFulGodX - Sanctuary

Eoria - Harshlands wrote: »

PK is part of the challenge of Cube. It's not going to be removed.

[/end thread]

QFT



/10char

Zoe - Heavens Tear

Other than 2 rooms, the cube is not a pvp dungeon.

Any challenge should be inflicted by the dungeon itself by being difficult, not by other players.

The cube will not have an invisible creature that stuns and kills you instantly.
The cube will not kill you as you are teleporting into a room.
The cube actually gives you a chance.

LilNai - Harshlands

LenieClarke - Heavens Tear wrote: »

if PK is "part of the challenge", why do you think it is "obvious" that there should be any exceptions to it at all, ever?

you're posting from a PvP server, saying there should be enforced PvP in some parts of the PvE servers. do you also object to having safe zones --- any safe zones, anywhere, ever --- on the PvP servers? if not, why not? surely it'd be more of a challenge if there were no such things.

some fine day, i'd like to be involved in designing an MMO. i'd make PvE servers and PvP servers. the PvE ones would have dueling, down the PW lines only more nerfed; nothing else --- no going whitenamed. the PvP ones would have no such thing as blue names --- not at any level --- and no safe zones, anywhere. those who wanted to PK, would know where to go do it. i can imagine the whining and QQing there would be, and i would laugh and laugh and laugh.

Yeah, the SZ around Swiftwind and Allies Camp is rediculous. Half of that needs going. The SZ around DW port well over extends the bounds of the city, For some reason the Scarlet Gate is an SZ (I kinda like this tho, lets me AFK nearer my grind spot on my sin), the SZs in Lothranis dont cover the area well and are too large by most accounts, same for Momagnon.

However we accept that there are times when people need to be able to not get their ***** camped to hell, and shrinking most of the safezones would likely create huge amounts of lag with people afking in more compressed areas.

The forced blue/whitename nature of a PvP server is like that purely to stop little **** campers ruining people who havent even levelled once yet and not giving them an opportunity to learn neither the controls nor any skills. After that comes a sort of code of honour. Aside the redname drop / shatter penalties, your actions in PVP genuinely cause you to be hated or loved by different groups of people, becoming either a target, neutral (I maintain this to my best usually), or someone generally considered a "good" person.

You on the other hand go in the cube, likely with most of your skills level 10/11, in hopefully half decent gear and you know how to play. (Hopefully). The fact that assassins camp there is the fault of those assassins and not the design of the game.

All you have on PvE without any PvP is people who help do easy **** and people who take help to do the easy ****.

You yourself still want duels? Really? Awesome, some people occasionally want to be an ******* in the cube. You take away cube PK and you should lose the right to duels, TWs at all,PvE too, its not part of how it was designed to repeatedly reset, land owned can only be attacked by PLAYERS, who might decide to GRIEF your TINY LITTLE UNPREPPED FACTION who managed to get some land off the pathetic PvE in this game.

I wish it would happen. Id rather go for a Virtually SZless PvP server (Say only arch, 1k and the 5 main cities) than a PvE server where you can do nothing but kill a bunch of **** easy mobs for gear youl put to use only in killing more now easier mobs. (I do believe w0ws PvP server are only "safe" in the 2 large main cities. Although the 2 sided war balences the idea of griefing or lowbie killing out since you can only usually kill the other group...).

~~EDIT:
This makes less sense than it should. Eoria, be a sweety and reword it plox, you should know what I meant xD

CandyCorn - Raging Tide

Lets take pk out of the cube of fate....until its useful to me.

See what I did there

Zoe - Heavens Tear

To counter the wall of text above me. Lets remove all pvp from the pve servers and remove all pve from the pvp servers. All you have is pvp, nothing else. You are all level 1 and can't get exp since there is no pve.

That gave me an idea for an april fools prank. Turn the entire pvp server into a safe zone for the entire day. =0

LilNai - Harshlands

Zoe - Heavens Tear wrote: »

To counter the wall of text above me. Lets remove all pvp from the pve servers and remove all pve from the pvp servers. All you have is pvp, nothing else. You are all level 1 and can't get exp since there is no pve.

That gave me an idea for an april fools prank. Turn the entire pvp server into a safe zone for the entire day. =0

Touche, I will conceed that point, if youl conceed that forced PvP is a-ok on PvE servers occasionally (Cube for example). Especially when your death has no penalty.

Zoe - Heavens Tear

Oh but you see, the entire complaint here is that dying in the cube DOES have a penalty.

It's called losing all your progress, spent coins/charm/tickets/time. I'm sure if the people didn't lose all of that this entire topic would not exist.

LenieClarke - Heavens Tear

LilNai - Harshlands wrote: »

[...] we accept that there are times when people need to be able to not get their ***** camped to hell, [...]

The forced blue/whitename nature of a PvP server is like that purely to stop little **** campers ruining people who havent even levelled once yet and not giving them an opportunity to learn neither the controls nor any skills [...]

i think you may have ALMOST seen my point of view. just stretch a little further.

The fact that assassins camp there is the fault of those assassins and not the design of the game.

the fact that assassins --- or anyone --- even CAN camp there most certainly IS a fault in the design of the game. even FPS games recognize this; campers camp when and where they get a chance to, and the way to stop camping is to design out the possibility.

You yourself still want duels? Really?

no, not really. i never duel, because there's no point. but i'm willing to allow for duels, and tolerate their existence, because they hurt noone and do not inconvenience me (or, far as i can tell, anyone else) in the least. unlike forced PvP.

I wish it would happen. Id rather go for a Virtually SZless PvP server

why "virtually"? go hardcore, get rid of them ALL. hey, if somebody camps you, PK the buggers back! that's what y'all roll on PvP servers for in the first place, isn't it?

it is, isn't it? i mean, what other reason could there be? i'm not even taunting you, i really can't imagine any other reason.

edit:

LilNai - Harshlands wrote: »

I will conceed that point, if youl conceed that forced PvP is a-ok on PvE servers occasionally (Cube for example).

why on earth should we concede that? have you not read a single one of our arguments against it?

(and why do you even CARE about that question to begin with --- is your avatar out of date, have you rerolled your main on some PvE server?)

Zoe - Heavens Tear

I've actually seen a game when the red names, if they die, do not spawn in safe zones. The results aren't pretty. No safe zones at all would amount to quite a dead server.

Tremblewith - Heavens Tear

17 pages on a pointless thread. Can you guys get to 20? Omg, the suspense is killing me.

Angel_Spawn - Sanctuary

Good point LenieClarke if you meant it like this that if some ******* kills you in cube you cant

hunt him/her down like you could on a pvp server, only opportunity would be if you both went

white (low chance) or if you would catch the same person again in cube, again low chance,

the stupidity that we CAN`T even kill the ******* after.

CandyCorn - Raging Tide

Easy solution, don't go cubing alone. Go with a few friends. So if someone tries to pk you, well you can then gank them.

LenieClarke - Heavens Tear

Angel_Spawn - Sanctuary wrote: »

Good point LenieClarke if you meant it like this that if some ******* kills you in cube you cant

hunt him/her down like you could on a pvp server, only opportunity would be if you both went

white (low chance) or if you would catch the same person again in cube, again low chance,

the stupidity that we CAN`T even kill the ******* after.

...no, actually, i didn't, because that entire mindset is like martian to me. the notion that my wild guess as to why people go all PvP, constant whitename might have been that close to the truth is somewhere between mindboggling and horribad, now that i think about it.

Zoe - Heavens Tear

CandyCorn - Raging Tide wrote: »

Easy solution, don't go cubing alone. Go with a few friends. So if someone tries to pk you, well you can then gank them.

That would work if you could all make sure you end up in the same room. However if someone is camping a room there is a good chance only one of you will end up there at a time, making a gank impossible. Also the fact that people will pk you while you are still loading into the room also makes it impossible to even move before you are dead.

Miugre - Heavens Tear

CandyCorn - Raging Tide wrote: »

Easy solution, don't go cubing alone. Go with a few friends. So if someone tries to pk you, well you can then gank them.

Not to assume things but, have you ever actually done the cube? Even doing it with friends, the likelihood that you'll end up in the same room is very low, and even if you do, there's a 5/6 chance that you won't be on your next die. So this "gank strategy" is not feasible except in extremely rare occasions, and even then, we have people in this game who can beat two or three people of their same level without breaking a sweat, just thanks to their gear. :-/

.....inb4 Tremblewith making another pointless post about pointlessness.

LenieClarke - Heavens Tear

CandyCorn - Raging Tide wrote: »

Easy solution, don't go cubing alone. Go with a few friends. So if someone tries to pk you, well you can then gank them.

pro troll, good sir, pro troll.

naw, who am i kidding. amateurish, UN-FUNNY troll. try harder next time!

CandyCorn - Raging Tide

Zoe - Heavens Tear wrote: »

That would work if you could all make sure you end up in the same room. However if someone is camping a room there is a good chance only one of you will end up there at a time, making a gank impossible. Also the fact that people will pk you while you are still loading into the room also makes it impossible to even move before you are dead.

comment below v

Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Not to assume things but, have you ever actually done the cube? Even doing it with friends, the likelihood that you'll end up in the same room is very low, and even if you do, there's a 5/6 chance that you won't be on your next die. So this "gank strategy" is not feasible except in extremely rare occasions, and even then, we have people in this game who can beat two or three people of their same level without breaking a sweat, just thanks to their gear. :-/

.....inb4 Tremblewith making another pointless post about pointlessness.

I've done the cube many times. And I know there's not a likelihood that you would appear in the same room as your friend. That's why you bring more people. The ones who die, well to bad for them.

LenieClarke - Heavens Tear wrote: »

pro troll, good sir, pro troll.

naw, who am i kidding. amateurish, UN-FUNNY troll. try harder next time!

b:bye you responded so
successful troll is successful b:thanks

Miugre - Heavens Tear

CandyCorn - Raging Tide wrote: »

I've done the cube many times. And I know there's not a likelihood that you would appear in the same room as your friend. That's why you bring more people. The ones who die, well to bad for them.

I'd like to see you organize enough people to make that effective even once, much less regularly, without the coordinated effort of a large faction behind you. :P And even then, the idea that several will die anyway kind of defeats the purpose, don't you think?

CandyCorn - Raging Tide

Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I'd like to see you organize enough people to make that effective even once, much less regularly, without the coordinated effort of a large faction behind you. :P And even then, the idea that several will die anyway kind of defeats the purpose, don't you think?

Well you can have a faction cube event...
And several "might" die. Who knows maybe none will die. IT all depends on their fate.

Miugre - Heavens Tear

CandyCorn - Raging Tide wrote: »

Well you can have a faction cube event...
And several "might" die. Who knows maybe none will die. IT all depends on their fate.

Clever troll, you. *wags finger*

But my point stands; bringing more people won't help matters significantly, because the increased number of people playing the cube will also increase the number dying in the cube due to PK.

And whether you call that "fate" or not, we certainly don't need to pad the PKers' egos any further by letting them think they're some sort of fate-based gods.

CandyCorn - Raging Tide

Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Clever troll, you. *wags finger*

But my point stands; bringing more people won't help matters significantly, because the increased number of people playing the cube will also increase the number dying in the cube due to PK.

And whether you call that "fate" or not, we certainly don't need to pad the PKers' egos any further by letting them think they're some sort of fate-based gods.

Now Now. More people could increase the chance of people successfully completing the cube, definitely if you got some rank 9 players. As for the "fate" matter I was mentioning both pkers and type of rooms (like the hands rooms (who knows they (the pker or the one who trying to avoid the pkers) might fail there and go back to room 1)). With more poeple in the cube that supports your goal, the higher the chance that you can go into a room where you know you can maybe be safe and or survive to finish your daily cube.
Besides it would be funny to see the pkers go on world chat claiming that they are so (insert e-peen message here) blah blah blah in the cube.

Miugre - Heavens Tear

CandyCorn - Raging Tide wrote: »

Now Now. More people could increase the chance of people successfully completing the cube, definitely if you got some rank 9 players.

This is a pointless assertion. A rank 9 isn't going to need any backup. XD

CandyCorn - Raging Tide wrote: »

As for the "fate" matter I was mentioning both pkers and type of rooms (like the hands rooms (who knows they (the pker or the one who trying to avoid the pkers) might fail there and go back to room 1)). With more poeple in the cube that supports your goal, the higher the chance that you can go into a room where you know you can maybe be safe and or survive to finish your daily cube.

But having friends in a room with you won't help you with the room's challenges, except in specific cases (consequence rooms, room 26 if someone distracts the mob for you, etc.). And while that can certainly speed up the process a little bit, I wouldn't call that measurably reducing the chances of being PK'd. Except, again, in the cases of rooms 14 and 34.

As far as the basic room challenges go, well, that is the essence of the cube. That's where the fate comes in. Or to put it more crudely: it's supposed to be the cube of fate, not the cube of being killfarmed for someone else's e-peen. :P

CandyCorn - Raging Tide wrote: »

Besides it would be funny to see the pkers go on world chat claiming that they are so (insert e-peen message here) blah blah blah in the cube.

Meh, WC is usually just taken up by the TW e-peen ranters. :P

EDIT: Oh lookie, page 19. Once again, inb4 Tremblewith ._.