Sins need a nerf

DaKillanator - Raging Tide

They do. That's not even a debate anymore, it truly isn't. At this point even Sins joke about how OP they are.
Sins are the best class in the game for PvE and PvP. Every other class in the game is balanced where they might be good in PvP, but excellent in PvE. And others are excellent in PvP, but just alright in PvE.
An example would be wizards. Obviously we're excellent in PvP (especially mass PvP) but we're a joke in 90% of all instances in the game.
Another example would be Blademasters. They're excellent in PvE with 5aps, but they aren't that great in PvP. I know there's good PvP Bms, but rarely can equally geared bms beat an equally geared caster.

But then you have sins. They may not be the best in mass PvP, but they dominate 1v1 (with the possible exception of r9 +12 psychics). And then they have 5aps and BP, which makes them a force in PvE.

Basically, Sin is the class you play if you want to play PWI on easy mode.


So what is there to do?
The sins need some form of nerf.

Now I don't really know how to nerf them in PvE, so let's look at PvP and their skills.

Tackling Slash- deal some extra damage, paralyze the opponent, and gain 50 chi? Are you kidding me? A paralyze skill on any other class would cost chi, probably a spark. Why is this one giving chi? Make this skill take 25-50 chi, not give it.

Focus Mind/Tidal Protection- skills that give you a 25/50% chance to avoid any damage/status ailment respectively. They have no drawback. No chi cost and the cooldowns are fairly low. Not sure how to nerf these, just know that they're OP.

Stealth- PWI is the only game I know of where stealthing not only has zero drawbacks, it rewards you with a spark. Originally the mp cost was obviously meant to be a balancing factor, but that's out the window. Between mantou, cleric buffs, and mana potions mp cost is a nonfactor.
A simple way to nerf stealth used in other games is to give a large speed debuff to Sins while they're in stealth.
It won't stop them from running from fights, but it makes it harder for them to stealth gank someone, force them to use up their AD/Apoth, restealth, and kill them after it wears off.
Another way to nerf stealthing would be to freeze all cooldowns while the sin is in stealth. A lot of sins will force stealth, hover around their target until everything is cooldowned, then just try again.

Deaden Nerves- survive a killing blow by getting back 20% hp. Makes a charm bypass impossible. Only balancing factor is the long cooldown, which atm is a joke since Sins can go into their own personal safe zone (stealth) until the cooldown is over.
To nerf it, I'd say to make it paralyze the sin for 4seconds on activation.


All suggestions for nerfs are just first thoughts, and I don't think they're the 100% be all end all solutions.
If you have a better one, suggest it.
I also don't think every single one needs to be implemented. We don't want to kill off sins, just nerf them.

RouxLouka - Dreamweaver

Instead of a nerf, how about a buff for everyone else? Anyone with celestial sage/demon culti should be able to see sins. Most celestial skills suck anyways, so it would make it worth doing.

tidesuxbadly

wow what a lier.. I will say this only once.. We sins are Absolutely Not Overpowered by any means , we are so delilcate and fragile creatures that need love and care. b:cute

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary

tidesuxbadly wrote: »

wow what a lier.. I will say this only once.. We sins are Absolutely Not Overpowered by any means , we are so delilcate and fragile creatures that need love and care. b:cute

Learn how to spell.

SilverCleric - Lost City

Like I haven't heard threads like this before..... b:sweat


I'm sorry to say, but I have seen so many threads related on how to nerf sins/sins are OP since the first few months of the TB expansion. Nothing has been done then, so most likely nothing will be done now.....

I suggest ether get use to it, re-role a sin, or get OP R9 gear.. other than that, there's not much else left.... b:surrender

Evict - Heavens Tear

Show me a Sin that can do this, then maybe I will consider Sins overpowered.

Asthariel - Dreamweaver

tidesuxbadly wrote: »

wow what a lier.. I will say this only once.. We sins are Absolutely Not Overpowered by any means , we are so delilcate and fragile creatures that need love and care. b:cute

With such a name, I suppose it was irony ? xD
I hope so <.< if it's not, go away sir troll

Btw, OP. Your suggestions have already been given 100k times. It won't change anything

/inb4flamewarandclosedthread

DaKillanator - Raging Tide

Evict - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Show me a Sin that can do this, then maybe I will consider Sins overpowered.

You mean a sin that can hit 4m while triple sparked frenzied on a HF'd 7x mini boss?

No, I suppose I can't show you a sin that can do that.


But then, why would anyone care...

Jennalicious - Sanctuary

The only ones who think sins are OP are those who lack the skill to best them in pvp.

I recently saw a barb take down 2 sins in a 2-1 attack. Barb killed both with no problems. No one was complaining that the barb was OP.

DaKillanator - Raging Tide

Asthariel - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Btw, OP. Your suggestions have already been given 100k times. It won't change anything

People like you who say "it hasn't changed yet, therefore we shouldn't try" are the type that let companies like PWI get away with whatever they want.

I made a thread about the TW changes about a month after they were released and people said that it was a waste of time, but obviously mine and dozens of other threads all culminated into something that got PWIs attention.

So there.

DaKillanator - Raging Tide

Jennalicious - Sanctuary wrote: »

The only ones who think sins are OP are those who lack the skill to best them in pvp.

I recently saw a barb take down 2 sins in a 2-1 attack. Barb killed both with no problems. No one was complaining that the barb was OP.

Actually, I've beaten sins in PvP. Problem is, they were stupid. Really stupid.

I'm not an especially skilled pker, nor do I have good gear. The sins I've beat were just plain stupid.


But for the rest of us with average IQs, who fight sins with average IQs, we think it's a bit lopsided.

Evict - Heavens Tear

DaKillanator - Raging Tide wrote: »

But then, why would anyone care...

Because it's a perfect example of a Wizard's viability in both PvE and PK. Why should anyone care what a level 96 Wizard who probably hasn't experienced high end PvP thinks about endgame Assassins? The overpowered ones you're naming are the guys who've spent over$9000 to be a "force". Rawrgh made a thread naming the costs of engame caster gear in comparison to what a Sin/BM needs to be a self-efficient farmer and from what I remember, you guys had it easy.

SilverCleric - Lost City

Evict - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Show me a Sin that can do this, then maybe I will consider Sins overpowered.

Show me any class that can do this.... ijs. lol b:laugh

But its not like its easy being able to do something like that though.... lol >_>

endlesstorture

sins are overpowered

Asthariel - Dreamweaver

DaKillanator - Raging Tide wrote: »

People like you who say "it hasn't changed yet, therefore we shouldn't try" are the type that let companies like PWI get away with whatever they want.

I made a thread about the TW changes about a month after they were released and people said that it was a waste of time, but obviously mine and dozens of other threads all culminated into something that got PWIs attention.

So there.

The fact is that since the TB expansion over a year ago, 70% of the threads posted in "general discussion" and "suggestion box" are QQ and "ways to nerf aps/sin skills". Gms don't bother reading this anymore. Plus Gms can't do anything about this, only the devs can. And, y'know, seeing how China is nowadays, if they wanna get away with whatever they want, they will.

Adroit - Lost City

Sins are OP, and not just by a little bit. I could go into this very long explanation as to why, but honestly those that haven't figured it out by now probably couldn't follow along anyway. The only people who think sins are not OP either don't pk.. or have an IQ below 85. An 8x sin with mediocre gear can go head to head with a 10x "original" class with good gear.. which is broken. A sin with good gear that actually knows how to play their class has no equal. Just look at cheze/Rinc. The only person that either of them has a challenge with on the server is each other, but 99% of the sins that roam the server are so fkn bad its embarassing.. so it may be hard to see what the class is really capable of (if you're extremely unobservant or something). I thought for a while that perhaps r9 psychics with full +10/+12 gear might be the end all, but honestly they just pull in a little below sins in terms of brokenness. An end game sin will STILL have the advantage over an end game psy, and both will totally **** on any of the original classes. I'm going to reserve judgement on earthguard as they are so new.. but my guess is that they are going to be pretty decently balanced with the original classes.. tideborn will still rule pvp.

sins obviously need a nerf, I'm not going to bother suggesting what I think would fix them.. as devs don't read this.. but I'll at least post my disgust with our class "balance" if you can even call it that anymore.

_blood_rain - Sanctuary

Evict - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Show me a Sin that can do this, then maybe I will consider Sins overpowered.

Your argument is invalid
Anyway. This argument is old.
Its true they are overpowered, but don't expect PWE to give a damn.

Mushi - Raging Tide

Lmao
Roll a sin,
Then you tell me how you feel playing it. Yes Sins are OP but so are every other class. Depends on how you play and how good you can play your class. This is useless ******** ijs

DaKillanator - Raging Tide

Evict - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Because it's a perfect example of a Wizard's viability in both PvE and PK.

Really? Getting a hit like that, which might happen 1 or 2 times a year, is a good reason why we're viable in PvE?

Fundamental misunderstanding of what dps means and it's significance in PvE is fundamental yo b:bye

DaKillanator - Raging Tide

Mushi - Raging Tide wrote: »

Lmao
Roll a sin,
Then you tell me how you feel playing it.

Have one.

It's 88

On a PvP server

Boring. Like I said, it's PWI on easy mode.

My 8x sin craps all over r8 clerics. That's not right.

_blood_rain - Sanctuary

Mushi - Raging Tide wrote: »

Lmao
Roll a sin,
Then you tell me how you feel playing it. Yes Sins are OP but so are every other class. Depends on how you play and how good you can play your class. This is useless ******** ijs

I have a sin.
I can't play it because everytime I log on it I feel like a traitor

I'll just stop there.

But I do agree with you on the point that this whole argument is pointless

Pointless.

ResMePls - Heavens Tear

1)This thread was made by DaKillanator

2)He is from Raging Tides

3)Oh look this thread again.....~removed~

_blood_rain - Sanctuary

ResMePls - Heavens Tear wrote: »

1)This thread was made by DaKillanator

2)He is from Raging Tides

3)Oh look this thread again.....~removed~

You make an excellent point.

Quilue - Sanctuary

I calculated that a R9 sin can triple spark zerk crit around 1m with Frenzy, HF, amp, and EP

krittycat

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

I calculated that a R9 sin can triple spark zerk crit around 1m with Frenzy, HF, amp, and EP

Would the Seeker skill Heart Shatter stack with those debuffs?

Quilue - Sanctuary

I haven't seen the debuff, but it probably can since it's a new PvE-only debuff...

TheDan - Sanctuary

This thread again...

/...

krittycat

TheDan - Sanctuary wrote: »

This thread again...

/...

You seem...

Disenchanted?

Yet...not in the least surprised...

b:mischievous

Sharki - Dreamweaver

Sins don't need a nerf, other classes just need power-ups.

TheDan - Sanctuary

KrittyCat wrote: »

You seem...

Disenchanted?

Yet...not in the least surprised...

b:mischievous

Water under the bridge; imbalance is part of normal game-play at this point. Some people will never adapt. For me, it's easier to move on and save myself the wasted time and effort.

krittycat

Sharki - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Sins don't need a nerf, other classes just need power-ups.

I want a star...

Dang...I am bored...