What the hell is up with APS...

Elviron - Dreamweaver

Well so what if there are some/half the people with 5.0 aps or interval junkies? The others can still form squads amongst themselves and work it out right?

I am slowly working towards interval gear (only 2.22 with fists now) but still primarily use my bow over my FC gold fists. I only switch to fists when a mob comes into melee range and has a lot of hp left or when the squad agrees to let me tank it (instead of reducing my atk rate) over a barb/bm who apparently cant hold aggro over my bow damage even when am not sparking, provided I am a 100% certain I can take the damage in the fist place (well uncharmed ppl like me have limitations :P).

However if there is a competant tank in the squad, I let them do the honours of tanking the thing and let the run take its time.

Not sure how it would be for Nirvana, but I still find the majority of my bow skills much more useful in squads than my fists, whether it be BHs, FBs, FCs, TTs, probably cos i dont have uber cool armours and just TT90s and normal ornaments. I still love the fact that I can kill many mobs before they come upto my face or the fact that I can AoE a bunch of them using my barrage which i cant obviously do using my fists :P.

Fact is, some of us are casual players while others are high achievers. I am somewhere in the middle where I'd like to aim for the uber equips (personal goal) and at the same time prefer a mix of classes in the squad working together and achieving something if it can be helped.

Other classes still have equal importance in most of the other aspects except with a few people who wanna get things done asap.

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Shadowvzs - Lost City wrote: »

u try tell me in group pk/tw u dont have time? also was few ppl talked about ~ -90% channeling what bigger lol than 5 aps (also -channeling less effective coz not reduce only the channeling time) :P (since every **** must be on u -channeling and u must be damn lucky for that also need buff/3rd spark for that and ur pdef is lower than mdef to any -interval class with pdef ornament)

Umm... what? I don't even think you understood what I said.

In group PvP, which is the type of pvp that happens most commonly on our server, a BM rarely triple sparks in PK. That's the only time that 5aps would even matter in PK. Triple spark gives you 3 seconds to figure out how to avoid dying and to get away. Many of the red named fist/claw BMs you see PK on LC aren't even 5aps. The only time a BM or any other 5aps class will actually HIT you 5 attacks per second are if they are triple sparked, and if you die it's mostly because you're just stupid, unprepared or your gear is just horrible.

Instant casting is pretty amazing. Try some Zooming Thunder Powder and see what instant-cast would be like. It would break the game if that were easy to achieve. Yes, PWI does have a few players with over -60 channeling, and guess what? It really does help a lot. It doesn't make DPS equal to 5aps permasparked, and it shouldn't. Casters are a DPH class and to increase their skill attack speed significantly would make PvP completely broken... ****, I feel like I'm explaining this to a 10 year old.

so absolute domain/expel after that i could die coz i cant use the genie for a longer time, i understanded well? acctually most of ppl use fist lv49 skill what is 20% boost (demon version) and pretty fast compared with 3rd spark.

If you're prepared and can't kill them or get away in that time, learn to play. Learn to kite. Learn to evade. As a caster, you're not supposed to try to tank a BM, ever. If you see a BM triple spark, immune and run.

b:bye

Borsuc - Raging Tide

Michael_Dark - Lost City wrote: »

Casters are a DPH class and to increase their skill attack speed significantly would make PvP completely broken... ****, I feel like I'm explaining this to a 10 year old.

I'm just wondering where you are pulling this all the time? No casters are NOT a DPH class. Well, they might be now, because of -interval. But most class skills are DPH based. Since casters are 100% about spamming skills, it's only normal they have a bit higher DPH even with basic spammable skills (like Gush, Aqua Impact, Cyclone, etc). A BM that spams skills will also get more DPH than using fists and -interval.

You wouldn't say this **** before -interval was common, you don't decide on a whim what a class is about just because -interval made the DPS for fast weapons broken. It's not the DPH that is low on spamming skills, or the DPS that is low on skills, it's the DPS on fists/claws/daggers that is broken.

What you say is something like:

A game has 2 classes. Both have somewhat similar DPS and DPH. An expansion comes, and adds a 3rd class, that has 5 times the DPS but lower DPH.

Now they have not changed the original classes at all, yet you start and say "the original 2 classes are about DPH". No they are not. More correct would be to say "the third class is about INSANELY BROKEN DPS".

Big difference.

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »

I'm just wondering where you are pulling this all the time? No casters are NOT a DPH class. Well, they might be now, because of -interval. But most class skills are DPH based. Since casters are 100% about spamming skills, it's only normal they have a bit higher DPH even with basic spammable skills (like Gush, Aqua Impact, Cyclone, etc). A BM that spams skills will also get more DPH than using fists and -interval.

-interval does not affect a BM's DPH.

Also, mage not a DPH class?

Wizard Forum Title wrote:

Wizard
Like seeing big numbers pop up on your screen? Chances are you're a Wizard.

Umm.. what exactly does that mean then?

/facepalm

A BM will never get the numbers a Wizard does by spamming skills. EVER.

You wouldn't say this **** before -interval was common, you don't decide on a whim what a class is about just because -interval made the DPS for fast weapons broken. It's not the DPH that is low on spamming skills, or the DPS that is low on skills, it's the DPS on fists/claws/daggers that is broken.

Umm.... Look at my join date. I was a BM for 9 months, and nearly lvl 100 before -interval was even an issue.

A BM never had the DPH potential of a Wizard before interval. EVER.

What you say is something like:

A game has 2 classes. Both have somewhat similar DPS and DPH. An expansion comes, and adds a 3rd class, that has 5 times the DPS but lower DPH.

Now they have not changed the original classes at all, yet you start and say "the original 2 classes are about DPH". No they are not. More correct would be to say "the third class is about INSANELY BROKEN DPS".

Big difference.

/facepalm

Before -interval, at level 100, a BM was worthless... if you were a 100 BM what did you do? You rerolled to a class that was useful at end-game. Mages ruled PK/PvP/TW back then, they still do now. They were also wanted far more than BMs before -interval.

At end-game BMs weren't wanted... mainly just for rebirth. For everything else? They were mostly excluded.

Of course, you like talking out your **** when you're just completely clueless.

Knownase - Heavens Tear

Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »

I'm just wondering where you are pulling this all the time? No casters are NOT a DPH class.

Mages hit freakin hard. Sure, Wizards may suck in the PvE farming world, but in PvP, they can own the scene.


Wizards are nukes.

Borsuc - Raging Tide

This is exactly why it's always pointless to argue with you. When did I say anything about MAGES? For goodness' sake learn to read and argue properly for once.

Mages do NOT hit freaking hard either, some of their skills do. Get it? Skills do. Because mages, like ALL CASTERS, have basic DPS spells like Gush. Compare that to Cyclone, Aqua Impact, etc. Big difference? I don't think so. Unless you use BIDS for DPS, but really?

When you say casters, you are referring in general, not to a specific class' ultimates. There are other skills besides that you know, something generic to all classes in general.

Oh wait, barbs have DPS and DPH. Imagine, a claw barb doing insane DPS, but also having DPH with arma. It's just a skill, however, you seem to have this notion that a "class" is defined by a skill, and class "type" (i.e caster) as well, ignoring the generic skills shared.

I mean, there is a generic DPS for every caster class, be they clerics, wizards, psychics, whatever. They ARE a DPS class by using those skills -- at least more so than barbs... or at least WERE until the -interval craze.

You are mixing apples with... idk what. Confuse points and overall ramble.

Lutalo - Lost City

I am glad I found a thread on APS. I am 95 BM with HH90 gold wrists, Energetic Robe, and Deicide. The thing i noticed is that when I upgraded from Gorenox Vanity (-.05 INT) to Deicide (-.10 INT) my regular APS went from 2.00 to 2.22, however, my demon sparked APS stayed at 2.86 for both weapons. Can anyone explain why I don't get more of a boost with my demon spark? BTW, I get 2.50 APS when I use Cyclone Heel, Relentless Courage, or am in Red Bubble.

krisnda

Closed for necro, and you may want to look in the BM forums for that answer.