is 5ap being removed?

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  • Okeano - Harshlands
    Okeano - Harshlands Posts: 4,943 Arc User
    edited October 2010
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    Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »

    The rock-paper-scissors format is a game mechanic -- like for instance, heavy armor being weak to magic attack (unless you equip and refine elem ornaments), it's not based on player skill.

    Rock beats paper that doesn't pay attention. :P

    Because you see everyone in a TW.

    And Arcane armor is suppose to be strong against magic attack but guess what, AA still gets one shot by the Wiz being in the AoE.
  • Olbaze - Sanctuary
    Olbaze - Sanctuary Posts: 4,242 Arc User
    edited October 2010
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    Tsubakey - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    before packs there were 5 aps fist BMs. and before packs there were TT farmers ad DQ farmers. there were many ways for 5 aps fist BMs to get 5 aps without having to CS. harder? yes, but still very possible and doable for endgame fist bms.

    Um, what?

    Before packs, you couldn't get tomes with -interval and Nirvana wasn't implemented. So, what you got was TT100 fists, a Lunar cape, TT99 ornaments, TT99 wrist + boots. That adds to 2.86 aps, not the 3.33 that you'd need for 5 aps. But well, 2.86 aps would spark to 4 aps, which would nearly allow permasparking.

    Though yes, nowadays you can get 5 aps without any of the items you get from the packs. TT100 fists, Nirvana leggings, TT99 ornaments, TT99 wrist + boots, an interval cape (such as TM69, TM79 or the special Lunar cape), and woo, you got 5 aps.

    Now, if anyone bothered to get TT100 fists for an Archer, they would've been able to reach 5 aps. But you said fist BMs.
    I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
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  • Borsuc - Raging Tide
    Borsuc - Raging Tide Posts: 1,526 Arc User
    edited October 2010
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    Okeano - Harshlands wrote: »
    Because you see everyone in a TW.
    Everyone who can shoot at you, yes. If you press T you'd know that. But if you, personally, as a player, do not look, how is that the fault of the rock, for instance? I can go afk and get decimated by anything.

    Besides, even if rock drops all people in one shot... it still can't happen unless others distracted them; which does not mean the rock took them all by itself.
    Okeano - Harshlands wrote: »
    And Arcane armor is suppose to be strong against magic attack but guess what, AA still gets one shot by the Wiz being in the AoE.
    True because we're squishy (squishy = low hp) which is a thing most people completely forget when adding to the disadvantages we get for being ranged.
  • Okeano - Harshlands
    Okeano - Harshlands Posts: 4,943 Arc User
    edited October 2010
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    Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Everyone who can shoot at you, yes. If you press T you'd know that. But if you, personally, as a player, do not look, how is that the fault of the rock, for instance? I can go afk and get decimated by anything.

    Besides, even if rock drops all people in one shot... it still can't happen unless others distracted them; which does not mean the rock took them all by itself.

    True because we're squishy (squishy = low hp) which is a thing most people completely forget when adding to the disadvantages we get for being ranged.

    T? Everyone has their slogan on so you are actually going to sit there and click through everyone in T to see who will shoot at you?

    In group PvP, who is not distracted? Just because people are distracted, it doesn't change the fact that Wiz can one shot EVERYONE. Your rock-paper-scissor argument is a joke. With the Jone's Blessing, Wiz can kill a BM thought kitting without the BM even has chance to take use of his own blessing. Wiz was extremely OP at endgame and still is. There are CS Wizs on HL that CS fists BMs rarely beat. In case you forgot 5 APS requires demon spark, so most PvP situation involves 3.33 APS.
  • Borsuc - Raging Tide
    Borsuc - Raging Tide Posts: 1,526 Arc User
    edited October 2010
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    Okeano - Harshlands wrote: »
    T? Everyone has their slogan on so you are actually going to sit there and click through everyone in T to see who will shoot at you?
    First of all, there is a damn class filter for you to use. Who even looks at names?

    Secondly do you realize how **** this argument sounds? "X is OP because MY PLAYSTYLE is xyz"...

    Assume, I like to get afk every 5 seconds even though I have the best gear in game. NERF OTHER WIZARDS BECAUSE THEY KILL ME.
    Okeano - Harshlands wrote: »
    In group PvP, who is not distracted?
    Game mechanics isn't distracted.
    Okeano - Harshlands wrote: »
    Just because people are distracted, it doesn't change the fact that Wiz can one shot EVERYONE. Your rock-paper-scissor argument is a joke. With the Jone's Blessing, Wiz can kill a BM thought kitting without the BM even has chance to take use of his own blessing. Wiz was extremely OP at endgame and still is. There are CS Wizs on HL that CS fists BMs rarely beat. In case you forgot 5 APS requires demon spark, so most PvP situation involves 3.33 APS.
    I wasn't singling out 5aps because 3.33 is already high dps as it is. (but there's 4aps sage BMs)

    The argument wasn't even one-shotting, not my fault people have low HP. Rock-paper-scissor works for resistance and effectiveness. If I hit 10k on a barb but 2k on a wiz, and one-shot the wiz but not the barb, sorry but I'm FAR more effective on the barb even if I kill the wiz and not the barb. 5 times more effective to be exact. Wiz just has low HP, not my fault he has under 2k HP (in this example).

    Group PvP is no argument FOR the wizard/whoever because even if the wizard ends up killing everyone when they are amped with HF, for example, HE DIDN'T DO IT BY HIMSELF.

    Only idiots look at who actually pulled the kill instead of thinking "wow would this wiz still do good without the others?". Doesn't that mean the others actually did the job? To me the BMs or whoever kept the people distracted are who deserve the recognition here.
  • Rawrgh - Raging Tide
    Rawrgh - Raging Tide Posts: 6,790 Arc User
    edited October 2010
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    Where are people getting 5aps before packs?


    Last I recall, the first person with 5aps on any server was HeadTramua, who had it after the release of packs.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "My understanding of women only goes as far as the pleasure. When it comes to the pain, I'm like any other bloke - I don't want to know."
  • ElderSig - Dreamweaver
    ElderSig - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,247 Arc User
    edited October 2010
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    Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Where are people getting 5aps before packs?


    Last I recall, the first person with 5aps on any server was HeadTramua, who had it after the release of packs.

    Idk o.o;, honestly I think some people on both sides are pulling stuff out their asses XD
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • ArchSaber - Sanctuary
    ArchSaber - Sanctuary Posts: 1,440 Arc User
    edited October 2010
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    Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Where are people getting 5aps before packs?


    Last I recall, the first person with 5aps on any server was HeadTramua, who had it after the release of packs.

    It was only possible to get 5aps with three level 5 tomes, farm lunar claws and mantle of radiance. It was super expensive with bm, but archer is way cheaper.
    AP classes are a real butt pounding...
  • Borsuc - Raging Tide
    Borsuc - Raging Tide Posts: 1,526 Arc User
    edited October 2010
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    rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »
    where Are People Getting 5aps Before Packs?
    pw-cn.
  • Olbaze - Sanctuary
    Olbaze - Sanctuary Posts: 4,242 Arc User
    edited October 2010
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    ArchSaber - Sanctuary wrote: »
    It was only possible to get 5aps with three level 5 tomes, farm lunar claws and mantle of radiance. It was super expensive with bm, but archer is way cheaper.

    Two errors: TT100 fists would be more common. And pre-packs, you could only make level 5 tomes, so no -interval from there.

    The highest pre-packs was 4.0 aps.
    I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
    If you see b:cute be sure to take a second, calm look at anything I said.
  • volst
    volst Posts: 180
    edited October 2010
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    Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Two errors: TT100 fists would be more common. And pre-packs, you could only make level 5 tomes, so no -interval from there.

    The highest pre-packs was 4.0 aps.

    wut?

    http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=d7bc891ebdb0c7bd 5 aps sparked bm (game rounding up)
    http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=8d42c04b45b02779 5 aps unsparked archer

    Sure highly unlikely, but 5 aps was still possible before packs.
  • Mumintroll - Heavens Tear
    Mumintroll - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,393 Arc User
    edited October 2010
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    volst wrote: »
    wut?

    http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=d7bc891ebdb0c7bd 5 aps sparked bm (game rounding up)
    http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=8d42c04b45b02779 5 aps unsparked archer

    Sure highly unlikely, but 5 aps was still possible before packs.

    From where did you get this cape? I don't think is cape before cap. Also there is set up bonus gear which you need 2 pieces to give it 0.05 not every piece have it, just 2 of it has 0.05.
    So you have -0.05,-0.05,-0.05(cape don't this you can have it before packs), -0.1 fist and with wrist you must be kidding right?
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  • Kupuntu - Sanctuary
    Kupuntu - Sanctuary Posts: 3,008 Arc User
    edited October 2010
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    Mumintroll - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    From where did you get this cape? I don't think is cape before cap. Also there is set up bonus gear which you need 2 pieces to give it 0.05 not every piece have it, just 2 of it has 0.05.
    So you have -0.05,-0.05,-0.05(cape don't this you can have it before packs), -0.1 fist and with wrist you must be kidding right?

    The cape is from Trophy Mode (79 in this case, I have the feeling 89 TM was open before packs) and yes, the wrists are unlikely to come up. He just showed what was possible.
    100% F2P player. Started PW: March 2007, Quit PW: March 2011.
    pwcalc.com/e7016929e7b204ae "Pure axe" 8k HP multipath BM, last one of my kind.
  • Mumintroll - Heavens Tear
    Mumintroll - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,393 Arc User
    edited October 2010
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    Kupuntu - Sanctuary wrote: »
    The cape is from Trophy Mode (79 in this case, I have the feeling 89 TM was open before packs) and yes, the wrists are unlikely to come up. He just showed what was possible.

    This cape I have same feeling. It's trophy mode cape so unable to get it before pack. Because trophy mode was open just recently.
    And craft this wrist is impossible. I bet with any1 that no player ever who played PW not just PWI does have it. You will win lottery sooner than craft this wrist.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Olbaze - Sanctuary
    Olbaze - Sanctuary Posts: 4,242 Arc User
    edited October 2010
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    volst wrote: »
    wut?

    http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=d7bc891ebdb0c7bd 5 aps sparked bm (game rounding up)
    http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=8d42c04b45b02779 5 aps unsparked archer

    Sure highly unlikely, but 5 aps was still possible before packs.

    Um, that cape is from TM79, which did not exist until a while after packs.

    And he said 5 APS fist BM, not fist archer.

    Also, good luck on getting those bracers. Also, have fun with the theoretical -18% channeling rings, right? There's a reason why no one has such bracers, or -18% channeling rings. They're statistically just-about-impossible.
    Kupuntu - Sanctuary wrote: »
    The cape is from Trophy Mode (79 in this case, I have the feeling 89 TM was open before packs) and yes, the wrists are unlikely to come up. He just showed what was possible.

    TM89 does not give an interval cape. The only -interval capes are TM69, TM79, TMFrost and TMLunar, out of which TM69 and TM79 did not exist until a while ago, TMFrost never did. However, you could get the other Lunar Cape with -0.05 interval.
    I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
    If you see b:cute be sure to take a second, calm look at anything I said.
  • Tsubakey - Heavens Tear
    Tsubakey - Heavens Tear Posts: 473 Arc User
    edited October 2010
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    you people must be overestimating the age of packs. the first pack came out last year for the 1st aniversary. there were 5aps archers and fist BMs a few weeks before then altho extremly rare. after the first set of packs 5 aps just became more common. thats all packs did, made everything easier to obtain...

    and even if packs never existed at all 5 aps would still be obtainable with all the new things that was added to the game since the first set of packs were released. so the only thing packs are really responsible for regarding 5 aps is it being easier to obtain. but u still dont have to spend a dime in cs to get 5 aps nowadays.
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  • Mumintroll - Heavens Tear
    Mumintroll - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,393 Arc User
    edited October 2010
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    Tsubakey - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    you people must be overestimating the age of packs. the first pack came out last year for the 1st aniversary. there were 5aps archers and fist BMs a few weeks before then altho extremly rare. after the first set of packs 5 aps just became more common. thats all packs did, made everything easier to obtain...

    and even if packs never existed at all 5 aps would still be obtainable with all the new things that was added to the game since the first set of packs were released. so the only thing packs are really responsible for regarding 5 aps is it being easier to obtain. but u still dont have to spend a dime in cs to get 5 aps nowadays.

    Ok so post prove. You have http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/ so give us example. Because I'm still more and more convinced, that you know nothing about game and especially game before pack went out.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Olbaze - Sanctuary
    Olbaze - Sanctuary Posts: 4,242 Arc User
    edited October 2010
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    Tsubakey - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    you people must be overestimating the age of packs. the first pack came out last year for the 1st aniversary. there were 5aps archers and fist BMs a few weeks before then altho extremly rare. after the first set of packs 5 aps just became more common. thats all packs did, made everything easier to obtain...

    Um, how exactly would you get 5 aps on a fist bm with no Nirvana leggings nor a tome? And don't theory-craft a -0.15 interval bracer like the other guy, those don't exist.

    5 aps archers were always possible due to Rank armors.
    and even if packs never existed at all 5 aps would still be obtainable with all the new things that was added to the game since the first set of packs were released. so the only thing packs are really responsible for regarding 5 aps is it being easier to obtain. but u still dont have to spend a dime in cs to get 5 aps nowadays.

    Well of course, Nirvana, Trophy Mode, Level 6 tomes. That's gives quite a bit of new options for getting 5 aps.

    And yes, nowadays, with Nirvana and Trophy Mode and the Level 6 tomes, you can get 5 APS without CS'ing at all. Before Nirvana or Trophy Modes, you couldn't.

    And again, only TM in Lunar, 69 and 79 give -interval capes.
    I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
    If you see b:cute be sure to take a second, calm look at anything I said.
  • Tsubakey - Heavens Tear
    Tsubakey - Heavens Tear Posts: 473 Arc User
    edited October 2010
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    Mumintroll - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Ok so post prove. You have http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/ so give us example. Because I'm still more and more convinced, that you know nothing about game and especially game before pack went out.

    an example was already given. pay attention.
    Um, how exactly would you get 5 aps on a fist bm with no Nirvana leggings nor a tome? And don't theory-craft a -0.15 interval bracer like the other guy, those don't exist.

    5 aps archers were always possible due to Rank armors
    Hint: dont use heavy armor.

    2nd hint: genies.
    [SIGPIC]http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=10046531006&dateline=1291585534[/SIGPIC]
  • Olbaze - Sanctuary
    Olbaze - Sanctuary Posts: 4,242 Arc User
    edited October 2010
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    Tsubakey - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    an example was already given. pay attention.

    Yeah and the only way was to include a fictional -0.15 interval OHT bracer.
    I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
    If you see b:cute be sure to take a second, calm look at anything I said.
  • Michael_Dark - Lost City
    Michael_Dark - Lost City Posts: 9,091 Arc User
    edited October 2010
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    There were no -interval capes or tomes before packs were introduced. G13 Lunar -interval cape was added much later. G12 Lunar -interval cape was never in the forges. Trophy Mode didn't exist.

    All the extra interval gear came out when packs were first introduced (cape and lvl7 tome), then later when the Tideborn Expansion came out (Nirvana pants and lvl6 tomes). Trophy Mode capes are either part of the TB expansion or came out later, I don't remember... but when they were put in-game, there was still no way to get them for some time.
    I post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.
  • Quilue - Sanctuary
    Quilue - Sanctuary Posts: 5,787 Arc User
    edited October 2010
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    You guys are confusing packs with game content. Do you think there would not be Nirvana without packs? Do you not think that they would've implemented it eventually?

    Also, don't need 5.0 unsparked to permaspark:

    http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=368f33860bcf9932
    Elena Costel: I wash my hands of this affair.
    Legerity: *drags you back* *stains your hands with said affair*
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  • Tsubakey - Heavens Tear
    Tsubakey - Heavens Tear Posts: 473 Arc User
    edited October 2010
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    Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »
    You guys are confusing packs with game content. Do you think there would not be Nirvana without packs? Do you not think that they would've implemented it eventually?

    thats why i said even if packs NEVER existed 5 aps would still be possible because of the numerous updates that have happened and will happen in the future.

    people just love to blame **** on the CS because they have some hate fetish against ppl that actually have spare money to spend on some damn entertainment.
    [SIGPIC]http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=10046531006&dateline=1291585534[/SIGPIC]
  • Olbaze - Sanctuary
    Olbaze - Sanctuary Posts: 4,242 Arc User
    edited October 2010
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    Tsubakey - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    2nd hint: genies.

    Speed bonuses don't stack, so using a genie wouldn't achieve anything. And to use a genie to permanently get 5 APS, you'd need 4 APS unsparked. Now show us a total of -0.45 interval pre-packs.
    You guys are confusing packs with game content. Do you think there would not be Nirvana without packs? Do you not think that they would've implemented it eventually?

    It's not about the additional content that came after packs, it's about 5 aps before packs were implemented. That implies no Nirvana and no Trophy Mode. It's not about what could've been, it's about what was.
    I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
    If you see b:cute be sure to take a second, calm look at anything I said.
  • Tsubakey - Heavens Tear
    Tsubakey - Heavens Tear Posts: 473 Arc User
    edited October 2010
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    Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Speed bonuses don't stack, so using a genie wouldn't achieve anything. And to use a genie to permanently get 5 APS, you'd need 4 APS unsparked. Now show us a total of -0.45 interval pre-packs.



    It's not about the additional content that came after packs, it's about 5 aps before packs were implemented. That implies no Nirvana and no Trophy Mode. It's not about what could've been, it's about what was.


    ok so lets say 5 aps didnt exist before packs and 4aps did. what is your point? the past is the past and the present is the present. whatever happened in the past is GONE and is never coming back. the only thing that matters is RIGHT NOW. the past does not matter for **** anymore. in the past gold was 100k per 1 gold. now its like 500k. those days are gone and are never coming back.

    stop living in nostalgia. there is a song that relates to this, its called pastime paradise by stevie wonder. you should go check it out.
    [SIGPIC]http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=10046531006&dateline=1291585534[/SIGPIC]
  • Olbaze - Sanctuary
    Olbaze - Sanctuary Posts: 4,242 Arc User
    edited October 2010
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    Tsubakey - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    ok so lets say 5 aps didnt exist before packs and 4aps did. what is your point? the past is the past and the present is the present. whatever happened in the past is GONE and is never coming back. the only thing that matters is RIGHT NOW. the past does not matter for **** anymore. in the past gold was 100k per 1 gold. now its like 500k. those days are gone and are never coming back.

    stop living in nostalgia. there is a song that relates to this, its called pastime paradise by stevie wonder. you should go check it out.

    Oh, but I am not complaining. I wasn't even close to being a factor pre-packs, considering that I started a bit after Age of Spirits was launched.

    And yes, looking back at the discussion, it looks like the starter was indeed saying that packs were a requirement for 5 aps or that it was nearly impossible before them. Well, pre-packs it didn't exist.

    And again, 5 aps Archers would've been possible with TT100 fists and Rank 8 armor. Just that the cost was unrealistically high due to no easy access to reputation or TT100 mats, both of which were changed with packs.
    I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
    If you see b:cute be sure to take a second, calm look at anything I said.
  • Tsubakey - Heavens Tear
    Tsubakey - Heavens Tear Posts: 473 Arc User
    edited October 2010
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    my main beef right now is even if 5 aps didnt exist and it was caped at 3.3, ppl would still just be QQing over venos. and sins still have the highest DPS even if 3.3 aps was capped so there would still be some QQ. not to mention the insanely high ammount of atk lvl they are capable of getting.

    people are never happy. remember that old saying? you can please some of the people some of the time, but you cant please all of the people all of the time. the game is fine as it is and 5 aps are assloads of help in squads. so i do not understand why you people even WANT them gone if there such a big *** help in pve squads.

    i dont know about you, but if it was nerfed pve would become a pain in the ***. unless you people want to go back to the slow *** time it took to farm instances. even pre packs wizzards still werent all that valued in squads seeing as archers were chosen before them. wizards were usually the last pick in a squad.

    Edit: correction, venos without a herc were last picked in a squad.
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  • Michael_Dark - Lost City
    Michael_Dark - Lost City Posts: 9,091 Arc User
    edited October 2010
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    It's not going to get capped.

    5.0 is the "killer app" for BMs, barbs, sins and even venos that generates a LOT of money for PW.

    Any time that people have asked for ANYTHING that would be detrimental to PWI's bottom line it has been ignored.

    Look at all the "nerf Flesh Ream" QQ that's been going on for what, a little more than a year and a half. They actually did fix it on the CN servers... for like a week. So many people complained that the change was reverted there and never even made it here.

    NEWSFLASH: >>> APS will not be nerfed. <<<
    I post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.
  • DaKillanator - Raging Tide
    DaKillanator - Raging Tide Posts: 2,965 Arc User
    edited October 2010
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    Michael switch back to your old siggy, it represented you better b:pleased
  • Michael_Dark - Lost City
    Michael_Dark - Lost City Posts: 9,091 Arc User
    edited October 2010
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    DaKillanator - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Michael switch back to your old siggy, it represented you better b:pleased

    It was getting old.. time for a change xP
    I post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.

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