is 5ap being removed?

Paramedic - Dreamweaver

fixing 5aps .uhh

they could like.. umm. add npc to 99lvl+ instances which sell 100lvl attack blessing just for magic classes or some buffing cookies b:chuckle



hard to fix what they did with -int b:surrender

Tsubakey - Heavens Tear

Teny - Heavens Tear wrote: »

The (most recent) complaint seems to be that 5.0 needs to be nerfed because casters and bow archers can't possibly match up to the damage on a per second basis.

Things need to go back to the way they used to be! Have barbs tanking bosses, archers slowly hitting with their bows and sparking once every 10 minutes, casters and their 3 second channeling skills, but because they're pure magic they are the ultimate DDs!

/sarcasm

Gtfo, make an interval char and stop crying already, Jesus Christ.

+1 qft

Borsuc - Raging Tide

Tsubakey - Heavens Tear wrote: »

you fail to realize how unpractical 5 aps is in PvP and just go on this tangent about how OP it is. the majority of people are against you and you still run that tangent. get over yourself.

I'm sorry but you have no clue what you're saying. When you Occult Ice a target, or stun it, and his genie is on cooldown, you will use 5aps, and you WILL **** through his charm, sometimes glitching without even ticking, even though an individual hit isn't a 1-shot. To see this charm glitch in action, look at Adroit's latest PvP vid. Now, obviously, the fact that it glitches charm ticks isn't a legit argument showing how broken it is I suppose? (no it wasn't mine)

Nevermind that they have insanely high DPS when BMS ARE NOT A DPS CLASS. (could say different about sins, but daggers are even slower, only thanks to their rank8 top they can get near).

What do YOU do when you get stunned, you just used Expel and genie out of energy, and then you get stunned or Occult Ice'd back, and he's hitting you with 5aps. For crying out loud 5aps people, who have physical attacks mind you, and thus suffer from more reduction, take down a stunned cata barb faster than mages can.

This is a game where scissor beats paper AND rock, because of -int.

Now EVEN IF 5APS IS NOT USED MUCH IN PVP, because it isn't, that only means REMOVING IT WON'T IMBALANCE PVP MUCH, it will just fix it a little... but it would MASSIVELY rebalance PvE.

Tsubakey - Heavens Tear wrote: »

seriously i am going to say this again. go learn how to play your own damn class. if you still want to go in this "sins are OP" "5aps is OP" "force stealth is OP" tangent then go make a sin because its not going to change. infact if you noticed anything at all sins were already nerfed a few times before.

Cool but this thread isn't about sins or about force stealth, or about nixes, or whatever.

Teny - Heavens Tear wrote: »

The (most recent) complaint seems to be that 5.0 needs to be nerfed because casters and bow archers can't possibly match up to the damage on a per second basis.

Things need to go back to the way they used to be! Have barbs tanking bosses, archers slowly hitting with their bows and sparking once every 10 minutes, casters and their 3 second channeling skills, but because they're pure magic they are the ultimate DDs!

/sarcasm

Gtfo, make an interval char and stop crying already, Jesus Christ.

gtfo and buy more packs.

Kupuntu - Sanctuary

Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »

Nevermind that they have insanely high DPS when BMS ARE NOT A DPS CLASS. (could say different about sins, but daggers are even slower, only thanks to their rank8 top they can get near).

Tell me, are going to say so because it'd be OP if it was so? If yes, one class being OP is nothing new. And no, the traditional Warrior role may not fit but it doesn't matter since this is not Western MMO where things actually matter.

Capping aps to 3.33 wouldn't balance PvE enough and capping it to a point where wizards could out-dps a BM would make BMs unable to perform well in PvP. Or who knows, but if we go back to point where you kill people with axes hoping for a zerk crit... Nirvana axes can change that as well.

Conavar - Heavens Tear

Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »

Nah that's not fair at all... only way to escape is to use immunity skills or genie... and in that case, the damage can be infinite, it doesn't mean it's balanced.

Yes it is fair .. If I have to use immunity skills or genie to survive to get into range to stun and attack you .. Damn right I should have the advantage in melee and make you use immunity skills or genie.

Your talk of balance seems to be wanting everything in your favour .. which isnt balance at all

Aelo - Harshlands

Its sad but as usual those who can achieve or afford will always overlook the truth to support their character. The truth is that interval gear alone is too overpowering. Sure so is warsoul weapons and jones blessings but at least Warsoul is near impossible to get and everyone can benefit from the blessings. In PvE anything over 3 aps is just too much regardless of class and in PvP it is just as rediculous.

The claim to balance is that all the classes are now equally unbalanced lol, sin stealth, everyone 5 aps (possible), veno pheonix ream, casters insane damage against low magic defense classes, etc etc. But the point remains that all of the imbalances need to be fixed but are being blatantly ignored because they bring a monetary boon to the game. Either be it packs or gold trading etc, there is alot of real money involved in allowing the instances of brokeness to continue.

The whole debate exist because there are one group of players who either have the time and money or both to get these overpowered additions while there is a group that cannot. It creates a divide that is insurmountable and so creates a class structure within the game. Those at the bottom want to have what those at the top do but cant acheive it. If everyone could get a pheonix, or 5 aps characters etc then I doubt there would be as much complaints or debate. After all in a level playing field the main difference would then be skill/luck.

PWI isn't however about maintaining a level playing field. As a bm @ lvl 86 people look down on you becaues you don't have Gorenox vanities or because @ 90 you don't have a full mountcrasher set of gear with a gold interval wrist. Furthermore in PvP the difference is real and even with as much skill and experience I have battling characters like these with my meagre gear (not that bad though, I have cash shopped a little) is not in any way balanced, so I understand how those who don't have feel.

So far though I am not impressed by PWI as a company because so far they don't seem to have the balls to make the changes that are unpopular but that would make the game more interesting. So far it seems its a delicate balance between keeping the cash shoppers happy and keeping the servers full which still depends on the rest who can't cash shop as heavily.

For sure if anyone wants to see what the result of the imbalanced system is just take a look at who owns territories on the map and look at what gears they have. Not like its THE best indicator but it sures does point the arrow in a useful direction.

Okeano - Harshlands

Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »

QQ

I've seen a Wiz one hit a BM, a Barb, another Wiz, Sin, Veno, Psy, Cleric and Archer, AT THE SAME TIME without them even noticing the Wiz was there. Paper beats rock and scissors?

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear

Ok, have your 5ATS character. But you don't realize, that game is broken. Why? Try little thinking. The classes was make for some reason and cooperation. Barb should tanking, cleric healing, veno should have solo-class, wizard should have DPH class(with high channeling and chi requiring for high damage), etc. And what happened? 5 ATS and stealth totally ruined the aim of whole game. Make lot of classes unnecessary for playing making HUGE advanced for melee classes.
Do you really think this game is balanced? Did you ever play another MMO? probably not because you wouldn't think this game is ok? No it isn't. The 5 ATS and Sins are in game just only to catch money from players, but this game is far away from be balanced. New classes will be even more OP to old classes to make new cycle suck the money.
If you like the game, where magic classes are weak and cannot do anything, then just play and enjoy. For me is this game already death. Even private servers without so many interval and tideborns are much funner.

Conavar - Heavens Tear

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear wrote: »

If you like the game, where magic classes are weak and cannot do anything.

You have a disadvantage Vs Bosses and in getting into squads that deal with alot of bosses ( TT/Nirvana) that is true and I cant deny that.

But please stop playing the martyr,Mag classes ( when played well ) are far from "weak "

Typhyse - Sanctuary

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Ok, have your 5ATS character. But you don't realize, that game is broken. Why? Try little thinking. The classes was make for some reason and cooperation. Barb should tanking, cleric healing, veno should have solo-class, wizard should have DPH class(with high channeling and chi requiring for high damage), etc. And what happened? 5 ATS and stealth totally ruined the aim of whole game. Make lot of classes unnecessary for playing making HUGE advanced for melee classes.
Do you really think this game is balanced? Did you ever play another MMO? probably not because you wouldn't think this game is ok? No it isn't. The 5 ATS and Sins are in game just only to catch money from players, but this game is far away from be balanced. New classes will be even more OP to old classes to make new cycle suck the money.
If you like the game, where magic classes are weak and cannot do anything, then just play and enjoy. For me is this game already death. Even private servers without so many interval and tideborns are much funner.

WTF is ATS?

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »

Err the post you quoted wasn't about the suggestion it was arguing with you since at tha ttime the thread was derailed. b:chuckle

The post I quoted illustrates how I treat you because of what you are. Even in your posts since this, all you're doing is crying. It's pretty pathetic, and a reason why not many people take you seriously. lol

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear

Typhyse - Sanctuary wrote: »

WTF is ATS?

Attacks per second or APS or ATS.

DaKillanator - Raging Tide

5aps is what happens when cashoppers complain that their wallets are too full. PWI happily gave them something to empty it for.

5aps wont go away because it wouldnt make just ANY group of people angry, it would make the beloved CASHOPPERS angry.
PWI doesnt care about angering regular players because they dont make them money. But angering cashoppers? forget it.

Oh, and as for those preaching that if you dont like 5aps, you should roll a 5aps:

there's a reason we have classes and everyone's not forced to play as one class; your supposed to be able to choose a class according to how you like to play, which is why people get angry when one class has an obvious advantage over all others endgame- it forces you to roll as that class to be succesful.

But none of that changes anything. Fact of the matter is: mele classes own atm, and may be on top for a long time.
To the caster classes reading this: just hang on as long as you can, cross your fingers, and hope we get an OP update so that sometime in the future, mele classes will be making QQ threads about us b:laugh
hey it could happen if it will fill pw's wallets right?

Typhyse - Sanctuary

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Attacks per second or APS or ATS.

I know what you meant. My questions is: how the hell does ATS stand for Attacks Per Second?

Tsubakey - Heavens Tear

DaKillanator - Raging Tide wrote: »

5aps is what happens when cashoppers complain that their wallets are too full. PWI happily gave them something to empty it for.

5aps wont go away because it wouldnt make just ANY group of people angry, it would make the beloved CASHOPPERS angry.
PWI doesnt care about angering regular players because they dont make them money. But angering cashoppers? forget it.

Oh, and as for those preaching that if you dont like 5aps, you should roll a 5aps:

there's a reason we have classes and everyone's not forced to play as one class; your supposed to be able to choose a class according to how you like to play, which is why people get angry when one class has an obvious advantage over all others endgame- it forces you to roll as that class to be succesful.

But none of that changes anything. Fact of the matter is: mele classes own atm, and may be on top for a long time.
To the caster classes reading this: just hang on as long as you can, cross your fingers, and hope we get an OP update so that sometime in the future, mele classes will be making QQ threads about us b:laugh
hey it could happen if it will fill pw's wallets right?

you are just as big of a idiot as borsuc is. you do know cash shop has NOTHING to do with it seeing as how there are MANY ppl that have 5 aps witout spending a single dime in cash shop.

Typhyse - Sanctuary

Reguardless, there are even more 5aps-ers who CS. The point is simple, PW makes too much money off it to remove it. Plain and simple.

Devoted - Lost City

Ah General Discussion... you are dependably ****.

ElderSig - Dreamweaver

Tsubakey - Heavens Tear wrote: »

you are just as big of a idiot as borsuc is. you do know cash shop has NOTHING to do with it seeing as how there are MANY ppl that have 5 aps witout spending a single dime in cash shop.

*cough* packs *cough*

People wearing said item don't have to cash shop for said item to be a cash shop item.

That's like saying cash shop has nothing to do with mounts/fashion


P.S. Yes I know some -int gear is farmable, but most of it comes from packs, therefore it is a cash shop item.

ijsb:surrender

DaKillanator - Raging Tide

Tsubakey - Heavens Tear wrote: »

you are just as big of a idiot as borsuc is. you do know cash shop has NOTHING to do with it seeing as how there are MANY ppl that have 5 aps witout spending a single dime in cash shop.

lol way to make yourself look like an idiot.

Let's think this out.

Before packs was there 5aps? No. items from packs are are a must for 5aps (technically not, but 5aps used to be muuuuuuch hader to get. Maybe 2 people had it pre-packs)

So what does that mean? People had to spend money on packs to put those items into circulation.

Now lets say someone farms the supplies and money to get the 5aps items. They'd still have to buy said items off another player, who opened packs for those items. It all goes back to packs, and packs=money.

Oh, and let's not kid ourselves. The MAJORITY of people with 5aps cashopped for it. It's like venos and hercs/nix's. Yes some are farmed, but an undoubtebly gross percentage used the cashop.

And saying I'm "just as big an idiot as borsuc is" isnt much of an insult, seeing how he's not an idiot, ijs b:bye

Aelo - Harshlands

Thank you, many of these items were not farmed but came from cash shoppers particularly FC gold items. So even if a few players are able to get to 5 aps without using the cash shop and I stress a few, they still were dependent on cash shopped items to get there.

My point though is not about who cash shopped or not. My point is that there are some instances where a skill (stealth with almost no limit or drawback, phoenix ream not having a PvP reduction) or system (e.g. the maximum attack speed achievable) or even items (FC gold for e.g.) are overpowered. People are not saying to do away with them completely. What we are saying is that some type of balance needs to be achieved and this can be done by some slight nerfing.

I have a background in mmos which emcompases quite a few PvP oriented games and the developers were never afraid to make nerfs when they saw balance being upset. PWI on the other hand seems quite content (thus far) to allow things to stay as they are.

Does this mean I will stop playing? No, because I like the game. What it does mean is that I know my place in the game. I set achievable goals for myself and ignore the heavily cash shopped characters. Trying to keep up with the Joneses is not easy and can become frustrating. As is, PvP for me boils down to having some fun because with a system that has these instances of unbalance I cannot take PvP here seriously.

After all a serious PvP system that supports charms? LOL, try a real PvP system where skill decides your survival and not a second life item. But wait, don't let me go there because some people here believe they know what real PvP is..............

Knownase - Heavens Tear

Ok, lost track of this discussion, why should 5.0 aps be removed?

re-cap zzzzzzz

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Aelo - Harshlands wrote: »

After all a serious PvP system that supports charms? LOL, try a real PvP system where skill decides your survival and not a second life item. But wait, don't let me go there because some people here believe they know what real PvP is..............

Yeah, tell us why we should be allowed to double jump in chess. b:chuckle

Borsuc - Raging Tide

Conavar - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Yes it is fair .. If I have to use immunity skills or genie to survive to get into range to stun and attack you .. Damn right I should have the advantage in melee and make you use immunity skills or genie.

Your talk of balance seems to be wanting everything in your favour .. which isnt balance at all

err there's plenty of things you can use, even magic defense charms.

Okeano - Harshlands wrote: »

I've seen a Wiz one hit a BM, a Barb, another Wiz, Sin, Veno, Psy, Cleric and Archer, AT THE SAME TIME without them even noticing the Wiz was there. Paper beats rock and scissors?

If they didn't notice someone who doesn't possess stealth ability, then it's their fault sorry. b:surrender

Aelo - Harshlands wrote: »

After all a serious PvP system that supports charms? LOL, try a real PvP system where skill decides your survival and not a second life item. But wait, don't let me go there because some people here believe they know what real PvP is..............

lol ikr XD but that's for another topic

Tsubakey - Heavens Tear

DaKillanator - Raging Tide wrote: »

lol way to make yourself look like an idiot.

Let's think this out.

Before packs was there 5aps? No. items from packs are are a must for 5aps (technically not, but 5aps used to be muuuuuuch hader to get. Maybe 2 people had it pre-packs)

So what does that mean? People had to spend money on packs to put those items into circulation.

Now lets say someone farms the supplies and money to get the 5aps items. They'd still have to buy said items off another player, who opened packs for those items. It all goes back to packs, and packs=money.

Oh, and let's not kid ourselves. The MAJORITY of people with 5aps cashopped for it. It's like venos and hercs/nix's. Yes some are farmed, but an undoubtebly gross percentage used the cashop.

And saying I'm "just as big an idiot as borsuc is" isnt much of an insult, seeing how he's not an idiot, ijs b:bye

before packs there were 5 aps fist BMs. and before packs there were TT farmers ad DQ farmers. there were many ways for 5 aps fist BMs to get 5 aps without having to CS. harder? yes, but still very possible and doable for endgame fist bms.

i should have known some idiot would blame 5 aps on "packs" sooner or later. if packs never existed people would blame TT farmers for everything wrong with the game. dont beleive me? right before packs check how many QQ threads about TT farmers there were around general and venos soloing TT with hercs.

Asheera - Raging Tide

Those people were kinda crazy to get 5 aps before packs, that means, farmed Lunar Cape and worst of all a farmed Pan Gu O.o

Oh and in case you didn't notice even "farming" Pan Gu needs cashshopping for tome pages.

Borsuc - Raging Tide

Tsubakey - Heavens Tear wrote: »

before packs there were 5 aps fist BMs. and before packs there were TT farmers ad DQ farmers. there were many ways for 5 aps fist BMs to get 5 aps without having to CS. harder? yes, but still very possible and doable for endgame fist bms.

i should have known some idiot would blame 5 aps on "packs" sooner or later. if packs never existed people would blame TT farmers for everything wrong with the game. dont beleive me? right before packs check how many QQ threads about TT farmers there were around general and venos soloing TT with hercs.

herc = cashshop
tomes = cashshop
packs = cashshop

But yes getting most -interval pieces available was doable... doesn't mean it wasn't broken, just that not everyone would roll the easy way to 5aps seeing as it took a long time to farm.

I_Snipe - Lost City

Aelo - Harshlands wrote: »

My point though is not about who cash shopped or not. My point is that there are some instances where a skill (stealth with almost no limit or drawback, phoenix ream not having a PvP reduction) or system (e.g. the maximum attack speed achievable) or even items (FC gold for e.g.) are overpowered.

Stealth does have a limit. It drains MP, but most Assassins are smart enough to either equip MP recovery items or have Cleric buffs to help counter that. Also, 'Sins used to be able to Triple Spark in Stealth, but that has been patched.

Btw, it's Flesh Ream. This is something that hasn't been fixed since...forever. And at this point, it won't be fixed. At higher levels, it doesn't hurt as much as it used to, plus you have Genie Skills to help counter that.

Since when were single items such as Frost Gold weapons overpowered [with the exception of Warsoul and Rank 9]? If that's the case, then I guess you consider LG and TT99 weapons overpowered as well right?

Balthier - Dreamweaver

Pang Gu tome didnt exist pre-packs. lvl 6 tomes got introduced when Script's of Fate appeared in packs.

Before that and Nirvana got introduced a BM could get max 4 aps.

Okeano - Harshlands

Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »

If they didn't notice someone who doesn't possess stealth ability, then it's their fault sorry. b:surrender

And what does that have to do with one shoting every class? You see and pay attention to EVERYONE in a TW?

Borsuc - Raging Tide

Balthier - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Pang Gu tome didnt exist pre-packs. lvl 6 tomes got introduced when Script's of Fate appeared in packs.

Before that and Nirvana got introduced a BM could get max 4 aps.

I thought Pan Gu was lvl5 tome.

EDIT: oh nvm mistaken it. XD

Okeano - Harshlands wrote: »

And what does that have to do with one shoting every class? You see and pay attention to EVERYONE in a TW?

The rock-paper-scissors format is a game mechanic -- like for instance, heavy armor being weak to magic attack (unless you equip and refine elem ornaments), it's not based on player skill.

Rock beats paper that doesn't pay attention. :P