Official Territory War Bidding Rules

Rawrgh - Raging Tide

MsEvilness - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Have you ever tried to coordinate a gank? Getting the same timeslot is/was harder than you think, both under the new system and the old system.

Under the old system, it was based on land positioning- which means that if the 2nd/3rd/4th guilds had lands, it could be hard/impossible to do, given the other no-name guilds who regularly bid also. Even if the lands were all close together, other guilds could still easily influence timeslots, even though they may not know it.

And this new system... well it all seems a bit random to me, so really, try coordinating a gank on the strongest guild and see if you get in the same timeslot, because more often than not, you will fail.

If anything these clarifications of the rules make it easier to coordinate a gank.

On Raging Tide my faction has both been ganked as well as ganked.

A couple weeks ago we attacked with another faction on one of the top factions on our server. Unintentionally, we never formally agreed to attack and we would have anyways, but we both bid on the same target.

Well, our TWs were on different days, why? Because 2 factions that have never been heard of before and according to the guild launch thing only have 6 members for one, and 14 for another. Which, is one of the things this statement of the rules outlines as in violation of the rules. So if anything this thread will help coordinate a gank.



And well.... the factions that are trying to gank my faction, are managing to do so pretty successfully.

Also, when I was on lost city and spectral riot and ragequit were all ganking conqueror, they managed to get a triple attack very often as well.

Zoe - Heavens Tear

Bludd - Harshlands wrote: »

This. Why they don't remove the 3x limit on simultaneous attacks and allow people to choose when to attack is beyond me. It would be impossible for one faction to hold the entire map if every land they controlled was attacked at the same time. And, it would remove allegations of "messing with time slots for others".

Still waiting for GM response to my previously bolded questions. Your update answered nothing.

One thing I've noticed in every single mmo I've ever played. The devs rarely ever do anything intelligent, like adding in what you just suggested.

Venoblaster - Dreamweaver

Knownase - Heavens Tear wrote: »

So the GMs are monitoring TWs now? They haven't before?


Also, based on some very vague interpretations the rules made, I bet you can find "grounds for banning" in every single TW faction on HT if GMs decided to go really strict....

But honestly, I don't expect anything to happen........

Me neither. It was just a single, upcoming faction that was singled out because we managed to take the land of the 2nd strongest (and rapidly degenerating) faction on our server. That upset the leader and her in-game hubby that happens to spend thousands or dollars a month on this game. And we had to pay for it. Now if we ever attack again and lose our leader has been threatened with a perma ban and, under the language of the official TW rules, he will be considered a perpetrator of a crime.

I support a name change, from GM (game master) to IM (income master).

MsEvilness - Heavens Tear

Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »

If anything these clarifications of the rules make it easier to coordinate a gank.

I don't see how that is the case, at least on the HT server. With around 9 bids on enrage (guild with the whole map) each week, it is very difficult for the 2nd/3rd/4th strongest guilds to get the same timeslot.

Asheera - Raging Tide

MsEvilness - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I don't see how that is the case, at least on the HT server. With around 9 bids on enrage (guild with the whole map) each week, it is very difficult for the 2nd/3rd/4th strongest guilds to get the same timeslot.

Tell the noobs to stupid bidding so you can have guaranteed triple attack b:quiet

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973

Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »

Honestly if a faction manages to take an entire map then the server is to blame for not doing anything to stop it.

The problem with this statement is that a single faction conquering the entire map happens on pretty much every server. Have you seen Heaven Tear or Dreamweaver?

It is not rare at all for a single faction to be able to defend against the entire server and that suggests a systemic design flaw of TW.

Poorly thought out TW design is not surprising given the poor mechanics present in the rest of the game. A quick fix would be to increase the difficulty of defending large amounts of land by increasing the simultaneous attack limit from 3 to 4 or 5. Really I don't see a reason for such a limit at all since a guild shouldn't be allowed to control more land than they are capable of defending.

thmm

This is a great thread.... They have never enforced TW rules so what makes peeps think they are going to start?

This is laughable at best...........

Leaders can be banned but IPS can be cloned / changed lol.. so one could just create a low level char and rejoin the faction.

Or just borrower a char from someone that cant attend the tw after the ip has been cloned / changed...


So no point in this thread even if they were to enforce the rules....

Oh wait they could penalize the entire faction by not rewarding Mirages... lol


Note: I don't condone anything I mentioned above:)

Rawrgh - Raging Tide

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

The problem with this statement is that a single faction conquering the entire map happens on pretty much every server. Have you seen Heaven Tear or Dreamweaver?

It is not rare at all for a single faction to be able to defend against the entire server and that suggests a systemic design flaw of TW.

Poorly thought out TW design is not surprising given the poor mechanics present in the rest of the game. A quick fix would be to increase the difficulty of defending large amounts of land by increasing the simultaneous attack limit from 3 to 4 or 5. Really I don't see a reason for such a limit at all since a guild shouldn't be allowed to control more land than they are capable of defending.

If someone is capable of defending a 3 way gank from the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th then I say it's safe to assume that they are capable of defending their land.


What the problem is, is that the high levels that aren't in the dominating faction, should get together in one faction and prevent that from happening.



But what happens instead is some will end up in a faction that has a low chance of winning, and instead of the other well geared 100+ on the server going to support them and help them keep the map from being dominated by one faction, they all join a small faction basically so everyone there will kiss their *** 24/7 cause to them they're so pro. Or, even worse, they make their own faction and think they'll be the one to stop the red/blue/pink beast.


RT has been out for 9 months now and we don't even have a single faction that even owns half of the territories, much less all of them. Our "red beast" at one point had over 20 factions, now it's died out because other factions sucessfuly triple attacked it and were able to take land.

ElderSig - Dreamweaver

Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »

Our "red beast" at one point had over 20 factions, now it's died out because other factions sucessfuly triple attacked it and were able to take land.

That and most of them decided RT was boring and came back to Dreamweaver.b:embarrass

hot4

Inversion fake bidding on Dreamweaver.
Great job, GMs.

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973

Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »

If someone is capable of defending a 3 way gank from the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th then I say it's safe to assume that they are capable of defending their land.

Actually its only safe to say they are capable of defending 3 lands. Does that really entitle them to the entire map? Again RT is one server, go look at HT or DW or what has already happened on Sanctuary and LC.

If the artificial limit were removed, I bet you'd still have guilds get like 8 or 9 lands but it would take an amazing guild to hold the whole map. Keep in mind a 3-way attack is still 200vs240 in terms of players capable of entering TW.

Rawrgh - Raging Tide

3 factions with 80 online during TW is not uncommong.


1 faction with 200 online? Now that's unheard of.


During a TW weekend, during the ideal time, getting ganked, best you would see is 240 vs. 140.


That's a 100 person advantage, if a guild can take the map even with those odds against them, then yes, they deserve the entire map.

Woneo - Harshlands

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

Actually its only safe to say they are capable of defending 3 lands. Does that really entitle them to the entire map? Again RT is one server, go look at HT or DW or what has already happened on Sanctuary and LC.

If the artificial limit were removed, I bet you'd still have guilds get like 8 or 9 lands but it would take an amazing guild to hold the whole map. Keep in mind a 3-way attack is still 200vs240 in terms of players capable of entering TW.

Yes, but can a 4th guild really fill a war with 80?
on our server the 1st 2nd and 3rd can, but the 4th can only fill about 60.

Lutirica - Harshlands

i still think it would be better if they had practice wars b:surrender

Woneo - Harshlands

Lutirica - Harshlands wrote: »

i still think it would be better if they had practice wars b:surrender

Id be all for it if they gave free charms and repairs... and towers.. and cata scrolls..

Lutirica - Harshlands

Woneo - Harshlands wrote: »

Id be all for it if they gave free charms and repairs... and towers.. and cata scrolls..

well thats the who point of practice wars that would be about all they give you

Crazydan - Heavens Tear

Umm real question is how often is 2 3 4 up against 1 in the same time slot? Dont think it has ever reali happened on HT

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973

Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »

3 factions with 80 online during TW is not uncommong.


1 faction with 200 online? Now that's unheard of.


During a TW weekend, during the ideal time, getting ganked, best you would see is 240 vs. 140.


That's a 100 person advantage, if a guild can take the map even with those odds against them, then yes, they deserve the entire map.

There is actually nothing in the system preventing a defending guild from fielding 100% of their roster in a 3-way while attackers are always limited to 40% of theirs. If a defending guild doesnt have a problem defending with alot less than 100% it sounds like TW defense is too easy.

Ideally TW territory size would be proportional to guild strength. If one guild is twice as strong as another they deserver twice as much territory. They dont deserve the entire map.

Love_Arrows - Harshlands

Does tw even have a real good reason behind it i mean what do you get if you own every last land b:shocked

Monoftalmus - Heavens Tear

Was about time. I hope TW and PWI gets more interesting and competitive now.

1st Year of PWI on HT Gms were very active about enforcing ToS TW rules but during the 2nd year it seemed more liberate.

Because of the fake bidding factions problems: Training Wars, Small guilds and Factions that don't have independent leadership - Maps on PW servers WORLD WIDE were rapidly turning 1 colored.

Not to even mention that on PWI server and my server there were and are TW factions that have officers that are alts of the other Main TW faction. One of the great boosts for main TW guilds are having alts as officers in other competitive TW factions.

This means that TheEmpire/Enrage leaderships from HT are getting banned I think. TheEmpire have had 15-35 Enrage alts as main TW force, and have been exchanging them during the last several months. Having Enrage officers as members in TE, and Enrage members alts as officers in TE, is a violation from what I can read in the 1st post. And yes they have been bidding against other factions only, until 1 got land locked and had no more choice.

But honestly. To put this aside, I really hope for NEW TW features and diverse maps and innovations, rather than simple coin and bidding work out etc. Don't want to mention other MMOs but there are ways to increase the TW times for more fun by placing Gates rather than Empty space at the keeps, gates have power to hold off enemy and make every TW last at least 30min.


kk good luck all b:bye

Lutirica - Harshlands

wow is a pwi goal to get players kicked?

Khaz - Dreamweaver

MsEvilness - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Have you ever tried to coordinate a gank? Getting the same timeslot is/was harder than you think, both under the new system and the old system.

Under the old system, it was based on land positioning- which means that if the 2nd/3rd/4th guilds had lands, it could be hard/impossible to do, given the other no-name guilds who regularly bid also. Even if the lands were all close together, other guilds could still easily influence timeslots, even though they may not know it.

And this new system... well it all seems a bit random to me, so really, try coordinating a gank on the strongest guild and see if you get in the same timeslot, because more often than not, you will fail.

Careful, this is against the rules. Though it's easier now with the new system in place. Merely have each of the three factions you want to fight together bid at the same time. Of course, this will lead to a ban as it's collaborating with other factions to gain an "unfair" advantage.

Firesong - Dreamweaver

Safe to say, I do not partake in TW, but have been a casual observer of the map turning red here in DW. As I tend to stray more towards PvE than PvP, this little effects me. However, I do wish to raise a question or two.

Once a faction gains an entire map, what will happen? As they cannot intentionally lose the war, they will not be able to redistribute the map themselves. I was informed a while back that the map would not be reset. As of writing this, Calamity owns all of DW except King's Feast. Aside from a gank, I do not see this changing, unless Cala falls apart. This I also do not forsee anytime soon. What will happen to the map? I am aware that Calamity has the power to swiftly kill most of the factions in DW.

This excludes most of us under the "no legitimate chance" rule. I do not see why TW has to be limited strictly to the High-Level factions. Perhaps it is not all about land. For some, it is the fun of the massive battle. For some, it is a chance to learn, to grow. For me, it is the perfect opportunity to blare OneRepublic's "All the Right Moves" on loop.

I also find a flaw with all the scattered high-level's banding together. Many of us are in factions with a moderate number of both high and low level players whom we like and enjoy the company of, and sometimes go out of our way to avoid factions where joining would start drama with another member. Yes, there are those who would like to see the top faction fall. But how many of them are willing to abandon their friends or potentially rip a hole in the dramanet just to make an attempt?

I understand fake bids are a nuiscence, and allies bidding on each other's lands (another thing--what do you define as allies?) should be frowned upon. But if a smaller faction assumes it will have the strength on the day of the battle, and issues come up, what would happen?

I miss seeing the smaller names popping up on the map--whether or not their hearts were in it.

And this silence, above all, worries me.

Alaxan - Dreamweaver

This entire thread was posted because of the GM's decision to suspend my account due to a "fake" bid. The fact of the matter is simple. They do NOT police this. They wait for players to report from their angle what they feel happened. They then refuse to give any type of merrit to you (the accused) or your argument after you find out you have been banned.

I led Inversion (among the top 5 strongest factions on Dreamweaver) into a fight against a faction we are friendly with. We are not allied with them directly, but we share a like mind for the future of the server and support each other where we can. We went into the instance and left our friendship at the door. Calamity understands there is nowhere else to bid on the map aside from them. We hold competition against each other though we are friends. Is that REALLY a concept that GM's are posing against now?

I was told my faction "held no reasonable chance to win". We beat Equinox and took land from them! Yes their forces were split. Calamity's forces were split too at the time we went into our fight. I was not once told by any GM in the tickets "you bid on an ally so you were banned". I was told we aren't good enough! That is why there is an issue! 50 members averaging 90+ went into that fight! A small squad went out to their crystal on the attack while another group stayed on defense to attempt to stop the steamroll. It was a FIGHT. It was not false, it was not pre organized by myself and Calamity.

There needs to be some proper accountability to the GM's who are "enforcing" and "policing" the rules here so that one person does not read a statement from another and say "yup you're guilty". Cause by that line of thinking. There's not a faction on any of the servers that has no tin one way or anothher violated these rules. And not a faction leader who shouldn't be penalized in some form or fashoin.

On the record, I will bid again against Calamity or Tempest. I will bring my faction into the fight with full intetion of winning. I will also take any punishment delt to me for doing so.

Celric - Heavens Tear

Alaxan - Dreamweaver wrote: »

This entire thread was posted because of the GM's decision to suspend my account due to a "fake" bid. The fact of the matter is simple. They do NOT police this. They wait for players to report from their angle what they feel happened. They then refuse to give any type of merrit to you (the accused) or your argument after you find out you have been banned.

This is VERY VERY VERY true. I once killed a noob in the pk room in cube and that noob started flaming me. calling me a hacker and all. Then reported me to gms as if i killed him in the CoF spawn. Next day i was banned like wtf. I had to email the gms to explain the exact situation of what happened.

Slivaf - Dreamweaver

Alaxan - Dreamweaver wrote: »

This entire thread was posted because of the GM's decision to suspend my account due to a "fake" bid. The fact of the matter is simple. They do NOT police this. They wait for players to report from their angle what they feel happened. They then refuse to give any type of merrit to you (the accused) or your argument after you find out you have been banned.

I led Inversion (among the top 5 strongest factions on Dreamweaver) into a fight against a faction we are friendly with. We are not allied with them directly, but we share a like mind for the future of the server and support each other where we can. We went into the instance and left our friendship at the door. Calamity understands there is nowhere else to bid on the map aside from them. We hold competition against each other though we are friends. Is that REALLY a concept that GM's are posing against now?

I was told my faction "held no reasonable chance to win". We beat Equinox and took land from them! Yes their forces were split. Calamity's forces were split too at the time we went into our fight. I was not once told by any GM in the tickets "you bid on an ally so you were banned". I was told we aren't good enough! That is why there is an issue! 50 members averaging 90+ went into that fight! A small squad went out to their crystal on the attack while another group stayed on defense to attempt to stop the steamroll. It was a FIGHT. It was not false, it was not pre organized by myself and Calamity.

There needs to be some proper accountability to the GM's who are "enforcing" and "policing" the rules here so that one person does not read a statement from another and say "yup you're guilty". Cause by that line of thinking. There's not a faction on any of the servers that has no tin one way or anothher violated these rules. And not a faction leader who shouldn't be penalized in some form or fashoin.

On the record, I will bid again against Calamity or Tempest. I will bring my faction into the fight with full intetion of winning. I will also take any punishment delt to me for doing so.

That is pretty disturbing to hear, I am sure in their eyes the accused must always be saying whatever they can think of to get off with breaking a rule, I would hate for someone to believe I broke a rule, that I didn't commit, have some proof that could easily be open for interpretation/be made by someone else, and me get a ban over it.

As for the "held no chance of actually beating cala" please... as you said you all could have easily have upset them as you did with equinox. Not only is that real insulting, it just seems like they are trying to cover their butt. =x

That isn't the only thing insulting either that I have heard gms say over the past 48 hours... that bit about... "The people questioning it are trying to find a way to abuse the system."

That just infuriates me to no end, it almost makes we want to... just say **** this game, and every other game made by pwe. << I am not going to try to tell you all how to run your business, or how to do your job, but the actions I have seen from gms as of late, have left a pretty bad taste in my mouth. Though I will probably still be playing this game for a little while, I doubt I'll be playing for much longer.

We all had a good reason to question these poorly written.... unwritten rules of TW, that a LOT of us didn't even seem to know there was any unwritten rules or tw, sure it may have been safe to assume some of these rules were always rules, but sometimes you have to lat out all the rules, or people will start to assume it is ok to do something they don't see written ANYWHERE. =x

magyarwarlord

Alaxan where do i start. This guy deserves to be banned. He has been mixed up with cala ganking and fake bidding for a long time now. When i was in calamity he even paied Tyranny to get free land then the entire faction revolted against the decision to give him the free land and went ahead and defeated inversion Against the officers decision. Finally the gm's cought up with you on your ganking and fake bidding alaxan you deserve it.

Tricannon - Dreamweaver

magyarwarlord wrote: »

Alaxan where do i start. This guy deserves to be banned. He has been mixed up with cala ganking and fake bidding for a long time now. When i was in calamity he even paied Tyranny to get free land then the entire faction revolted against the decision to give him the free land and went ahead and defeated inversion Against the officers decision. Finally the gm's cought up with you on your ganking and fake bidding alaxan you deserve it.

lol this made me chuckle b:chuckle mag sorry to say but i have known alax long enough that this is more BS then anything i have encoutered (could think of something compareable but its from another game so dont count really XD). We at inversion dont pay **** to anyone nor do we take bribes nor anything else. just like every other faction we use our own strength to get what we want. sure we are not always successful but we keep trying. sorry we messed up ur factions little gank which yall have clearly stated u planned b4 and collaborated with each other about it but honestly to make up bogus and to get others banned? honestly how low has EQ gone since i left....anyways i honestly am praying EQ does turn around at some point cause not only for me but for many others its severly crushing to see EQ goin down the hole so much. so with this i bid you goodnight and cya whenever i decide to wake up XD

RedsRose - Lost City

I think we can lay down more then a few facts here from this entire thread:

- Fake bids have and continue to happen. The new system just took away the "refund" with which you could immediately tell if the guild was "fake"...10k return? ijs

- "Practice TW's" have always taken place between two guilds to whom were friendly and just wanted some fun. I have been in more then a few TW's in which we wore our starter town gear and even one in which we used NPC weapons that were not for our class (this one was an amazing war and one of the funniest I have ever been in).

- TW's have for the most part always been "timed" in terms of bidding for specific slot times to 2/3 way attack on one faction. Look at CQ on Lost City, the 3 way attacks were endless once they held most of the land.

- Factions that bid have often bid for the reason of 2/3 way attacks and MOST of the guilds involved knew going in they had no chance to win, even if one of the larger guilds sent in one party of 6 to defend.

- There have been more then a few cases of "Alliances" bidding on land and being "given" land in order to hold for another faction. This is/was often done to block in te potential for other guilds to attack.


These rules posted have always been here. However, to post them now after 2 years, after never having really never enforced them or enforced them extremely poorly is very much a downer to the already "broken" TW system.

All I can think of for now but the fact is MANY of the things outlined have been done and continue to be done. How the heck can you even prove or disprove some of these thing?

Heartstone - Dreamweaver

Tricannon - Dreamweaver wrote: »

lol this made me chuckle b:chuckle mag sorry to say but i have known alax long enough that this is more BS then anything i have encoutered

just ignore that dude.. and hope he dont post again ^^



but anyway the rule enforcing in pw aint good.

most rule breaking in pw u can do as u want to. as long no1 report you, you'll be fine. they may be able monitor, but as long no1 complain usually nothing happens. and yes many been banned for nothing cos noobs send in false reports. its like GM's not even check if the reports are true, be it TW or whatever.

i see nowhere to believe they would investigate a Tw issue fake bid, when they dont with so many things. and after what happened to inversion that just proved it right, they do not check their logfiles before ban.