Official Territory War Bidding Rules

Andres - Dreamweaver

*Moved it to DW Forums*
http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=872062

tori2

Andres - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I hope someone took the screenshot of Equinox overbidding planes of Farewell, quickly followed by Tempest and Dynasty bid. As that was a violation of this particular point. Then we can all report it.

I have screenshots!!! Who wants them?

Kupuntu - Sanctuary

Conavar - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Ladies and Gents plz **** and take it to the DW section of the forums.

The constant petty server arguements are going to do nothing but get a valid thread locked

Ty

b:surrender

That would just make the whole thing much more interesting tbh. Drop in a couple of bans and we got a great drama going on here.

Shadowfire - Dreamweaver

Just going to ask that all of us from dreamweaver move it to our forum section. Let's not get this thread locked for epic derailment, some legitimate and important questions are being asked that need to be answered, and i'd rather us not get it lost/locked with our inter-faction trolling and drama. And it's easier to read when i get home tonight if it's in our forum section too b:laugh

Pacothenoob - Dreamweaver

Clearly you all forget this is a game and need to learn to have some fun tori2 which im sure is alaxan why hide behind the alt? And Father Ted that wasnt just aimed at you ive heard repeatedly of us being an EQ alt faction yet we arent. Not everyone of our EQ alts was even there and not all of them have +10 weapons. I have only a +5 and i killed tons of your members including you. And our cala alts one that was there is only an 83. We dont depend on a few alts to win a tw. And Tori/Alaxan if you want to get people banned what about the offer you made to me about calamity GIVING us land if we will promise to take only one land and not try for more you know you remember that. When you had the tw in which you were to gain a land but the members wouldnt allow it. It came from your own lips. And my response to you was we would Earn our land. Enough said there is no need to live your life here causing drama over a game grow up and get a life.

Anarchy - Dreamweaver

Conavar - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Ladies and Gents plz **** and take it to the DW section of the forums.

The constant petty server arguements are going to do nothing but get a valid thread locked

Ty

b:surrender

lol, so glad I wasn't the only one that noticed.

Welcome to Dreamweaver, where the drama is plentiful and the QQing forever rains, as long as there are scraps of insecurity to prey upon.

(Don't let them fool you...they are all guilty..but damn its fun to watch them try to justify themselves)

Ana

Borsuc - Raging Tide

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

(reposted from a closed thread in regards to smaller/lower level guilds bidding, unedited because it still directly applies to the GM statement)

Look at SG1OWNS for the first year and a half of the server. They may have not been able to win any except during times when they took advantage of double or triple attacks, but their leader kept bidding, letting their faction members *experience* TW. They knew they'd most likely never win, even though they did manage to win a land a couple of times...

...they did it just so they could do something as a faction.

I thought SG1 was pretty fail in most of the things they did, but I do respect Uberhurts for giving their members the chance to at least experience it for themselves.

GM's publicly dismissing this as against the rules is just another nail in PWI's coffin. It's actually quite stupid of them to make the changes as they have, especially with TW being dead on most of the servers now.

It's kinda like **** for the last time before Forsaken World launches their new servers.

Detect the ulterior motive yet? (I actually have a hard time believing that they would tank one game just so the other would get more players... but you actually can never really know...)

I actually find myself agreeing with Michael for once. b:shocked

Slivaf - Dreamweaver

Conavar - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Ladies and Gents plz **** and take it to the DW section of the forums.

The constant petty server arguements are going to do nothing but get a valid thread locked

Ty

b:surrender

I must admit that the constant talk about the ban is getting a little old, however a lot of us felt it was unjust, and some of us are even trying to make sense of these new rules, using that ban as an example, some people are now afraid to bid just because they might get banned for it if they get rolled in minutes, no matter what their tactic may be. <<

It was a pretty messed up reason to ban someone in the eyes of many. =x

but aye... *last post ill be making about that subject.. I hope.. =x lol

ShadowOfLife - Dreamweaver

tori2 wrote: »

That was addressed here http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=10329872&postcount=156

Trully though, it's an indirect bashing of Aubree. She has clearly violated a number of the rules, yet so quickly pointed a finger at Alaxan and Inversion. Simply because she was butt hurt that her collaborating was disrupted.

The point is Inversion leader DID violate rules and this was actually quite clear, if you can show a screenshot of your "30-40" people in the TW as claimed by many of your members then fair enough. Yet funnily enough no one seems to be able to show any proof.

This therefore leads to proof that a fake bid was made by inversion overbidding a Legitimate bid by vanquish. Not "JUST" because inversion overbidded them but intent on also losing on purpose, when Inversion could have bid on any other land.

Inversion broke 2 rules at once. Proof was given and the GMs deemed this reason to be good enough.

Now just because this happened Inversion and some of Calamity are nit-picking and trying to make every possible accusation on EQ saying how EQ violated this and that.

Point is... GET PROOF. Most if not ALL of these accusations are false and funnily enough you have NOTHING to back up your accusations with.

Slivaf - Dreamweaver

ShadowOfLife - Dreamweaver wrote: »

The point is Inversion leader DID violate rules and this was actually quite clear, if you can show a screenshot of your "30-40" people in the TW as claimed by many of your members then fair enough. Yet funnily enough no one seems to be able to show any proof.

This therefore leads to proof that a fake bid was made by inversion overbidding a Legitimate bid by vanquish. Not "JUST" because inversion overbidded them but intent on also losing on purpose, when Inversion could have bid on any other land.

Inversion broke 2 rules at once. Proof was given and the GMs deemed this reason to be good enough.

Now just because this happened Inversion and some of Calamity are nit-picking and trying to make every possible accusation on EQ saying how EQ violated this and that.

Point is... GET PROOF. Most if not ALL of these accusations are false and funnily enough you have NOTHING to back up your accusations with.

Ok I lied... so what sue me. =X

How do you all even know they outbidded vanquish, anyone can bid on any land, maybe vanquish should have went after a different land, not to mention inversion would of had to put in a bid that is OVER vanquish's, and attack the same land vanquish was going after, according to my reports vanquish hasn't attacked the past 2.. or 3 weekends. =x i know this doesn't mean they didn't attack, but it does suggest to me that perhaps they didn't even bid.

Meh whatever your reply may be I ama go afk for a long time to prevent myself from posting here again about that... unrelated topic to the thread. =x

EDIT: Not to mention the lack of proof that inversion didn't show up and did NOT attack cala's crystal.

Proof is lacking all over. =x

Toxic - Dreamweaver

ShadowOfLife - Dreamweaver wrote: »

The point is Inversion leader DID violate rules and this was actually quite clear, if you can show a screenshot of your "30-40" people in the TW as claimed by many of your members then fair enough. Yet funnily enough no one seems to be able to show any proof.

This therefore leads to proof that a fake bid was made by inversion overbidding a Legitimate bid by vanquish. Not "JUST" because inversion overbidded them but intent on also losing on purpose, when Inversion could have bid on any other land.

Inversion broke 2 rules at once. Proof was given and the GMs deemed this reason to be good enough.

Now just because this happened Inversion and some of Calamity are nit-picking and trying to make every possible accusation on EQ saying how EQ violated this and that.

Point is... GET PROOF. Most if not ALL of these accusations are false and funnily enough you have NOTHING to back up your accusations with.

Apparently in the next TW I'll take screenshots.

All the GM's have to do is go look through the logs and they will see we did indeed have around 40 people there, we built towers and got our catas on their crystal. And I was IN that TW in an attack squad that was on their crystal and there was NO intent to lose.

I really don't see how all the Inversion and Cala people who were in that TW saying we did try to take that land isn't proof enough. You weren't there and you don't know.

tori2

Pacothenoob - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Clearly you all forget this is a game and need to learn to have some fun tori2 which im sure is alaxan why hide behind the alt? And Father Ted that wasnt just aimed at you ive heard repeatedly of us being an EQ alt faction yet we arent. Not everyone of our EQ alts was even there and not all of them have +10 weapons. I have only a +5 and i killed tons of your members including you. And our cala alts one that was there is only an 83. We dont depend on a few alts to win a tw. And Tori/Alaxan if you want to get people banned what about the offer you made to me about calamity GIVING us land if we will promise to take only one land and not try for more you know you remember that. When you had the tw in which you were to gain a land but the members wouldnt allow it. It came from your own lips. And my response to you was we would Earn our land. Enough said there is no need to live your life here causing drama over a game grow up and get a life.

I will address Paco first. Alaxan has not once had any issues speaking his mind as himself. You of all people know that. I actually wish he would come forward and post, but he's a tad bit frustrated with the game and everything here.

Second, you can take it up with Alaxan, but I am pretty certain he doesn't make deals for Calamity. As far as I know your relationship with Inversion has always been a solid one even. Your ally picked a fight with Inversion. Went so far as to cry about it to GM's when their plot was foiled and is now using you as a new pawn. Enjoy it while it lasts.

tori2

Slivaf - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Ok I lied... so what sue me. =X

How do you all even know they outbidded vanquish, anyone can bid on any land, maybe vanquish should have went after a different land, not to mention inversion would of had to put in a bid that is OVER vanquish's, and attack the same land vanquish was going after, according to my reports vanquish hasn't attacked the past 2.. or 3 weekends. =x i know this doesn't mean they didn't attack, but it does suggest to me that perhaps they didn't even bid.

Meh whatever your reply may be I ama go afk for a long time to prevent myself from posting here again about that... unrelated topic to the thread. =x

EDIT: Not to mention the lack of proof that inversion didn't show up and did NOT attack cala's crystal.

Proof is lacking all over. =x

Aubree has stated in a previous post. She knew Alaxan bid immediately at TW bid open. They knew Vanquish was bidding and Vanquish made a fail attempt at overbidding Inversion. Vanquish placed their bid second according to the assumptions here. They also didn't bid high enough. They had an opportunity to bid on any other land on the map. They were collaborating to obtain specific time slots. It's why the first faction to bid up north, this week, was overbid by Equinox. So they could manipulate the timing of the fights with their collaboration between themselves, Tempest and Dynasty. All three of which bid within moments of each other. All three of which should, by the rules here in this post, not be allowed to TW. At the very least they should be suspended upon further investigation.

Tyranny - Dreamweaver

FROM PWI CUSTOMER SERVICE:

Greetings, Your account has been banned until 2009-10-16 for its involvement in a fake territory war bid. As the guild master of a guild that has benefited from an illegitimate bid, you must face the repercussions for this violation. A fake territory war bid can be defined as, but is not limited to: "practice" battles, as well as battles created simply to disrupt the Territory Wars attack times. This is regarded as an exploitation of the Territory Wars system!
Please refer to the following rules in our Terms of Service: You may not:
(k) Cheat or utilize unauthorized exploits in connection with the Games or the Service;
(l) Using or exploiting any bugs, errors, or design flaws to obtain unauthorized access to the Service or to gain an unfair advantage over other players
Thank you for your cooperation. We must stress that future infractions can and will result in a more severe ban.

So if indeed Aubree or any other guild member has broken TW rules, it should be her and the CURRENT guild leader of EQ that BOTH get banned for a week, as has been set by precedence from last year.

Psytrac - Dreamweaver

Tyranny saves his emails, scarry. but good of ya to put that up.

intandem

tori2 wrote: »

Aubree has stated in a previous post. She knew Alaxan bid immediately at TW bid open. They knew Vanquish was bidding and Vanquish made a fail attempt at overbidding Inversion. Vanquish placed their bid second according to the assumptions here. They also didn't bid high enough. They had an opportunity to bid on any other land on the map. They were collaborating to obtain specific time slots. It's why the first faction to bid up north, this week, was overbid by Equinox. So they could manipulate the timing of the fights with their collaboration between themselves, Tempest and Dynasty. All three of which bid within moments of each other. All three of which should, by the rules here in this post, not be allowed to TW. At the very least they should be suspended upon further investigation.

EQ had already planned on taking that land up north. Second only 4 bids were made this week, yes we overbid a faction for the land we wanted anyway. Regardless it was just a couple hours before bidding ended and the other 2 factions bid. Those were the only factions bidding and we would have been slotted together anyway. Simply because there were no other bids.

Bludd - Harshlands

Coming from a version of the game that was ruined by fake bidding (amongst many, many other things); I do have a lot of sympathy for wanting a fair TW bid system.
However, I can promise you that if I get banned because I choose to attack another land even though my faction may have no reasonable chance of winning, I will sue for the sum total of everything I have ever spent on here plus court costs.

And before people start foaming at the mouth to shout about what the ToS says; I would point out that you are not familiar with recent similar court cases. Juries and even judges have increasingly shown very little patience with mandatory ToS contracts (ie you MUST click okay to play/use/whatever) and finding in the plaintif's favor. Personally, I like my chances in court.

Really, it is just not that god damn difficult for the GMs to do their freakin' jobs and actually investigate what goes on during these supposed "fake bids"; rather than opine draconian, poorly thought out nonesense they would have us believe are rules. I mean, god forbid you actually determine someone has broken the rules before you ban them!

How about a GM explain this one to me. How can it possibly be a fake bid if no one else is bidding on the land and you have the intention of showing up (even if it's only to buy poison pots; which I have done before)?

I'm pretty sure the idea behind TW changes was to make things more competitive. How the hell do you expect new factions to learn about and compete in TW if you BAN THEM for going before they are sure to win? This doesn't even make sense! Did no one bother to think through what you posted?

You make it nearly impossible to defend any of your decisions when you make rediculous, boneheaded statements like these TW rules.

Anyways, I'm serious about the bolded statements. I would really, really, really like to have an answer to them from a GM or other PWI official.

Khaz - Dreamweaver

intandem wrote: »

EQ had already planned on taking that land up north. Second only 4 bids were made this week, yes we overbid a faction for the land we wanted anyway. Regardless it was just a couple hours before bidding ended and the other 2 factions bid. Those were the only factions bidding and we would have been slotted together anyway. Simply because there were no other bids.

I've been sittin by and watching long enough. First, there was a bid on the spot you overbid. It was done so, to allow you the time slot in TW vs Calamity by manipulating your knowledge of how the scheduling is done to gain an unfair advantage. This is nothing new for Equinox, under Aubree's rule or any other. Ajay was the one to teach me how to watch and where to bid for strategic advantages.

Second, Paco, Aubree, Tori. Enough! I am awaiting final investigation into the ordeal. I have escalated it further to a higher authority at PWE. I was online and watched the timing of each of the bids that took place. Equinox, Dynasty and Tempest included are all in violation of taking part in bending the rules to gain an unfair advantage. I was punished over an accusation with no physical proof. Be ready for the same thing to occur for each of you.

Third, on subject here. The rules are far too easily manipulated and skewed in order to twist things to one side or the other. It's all based on the view point of the person looking at them. Just remember it's easy to point a finger at someone else. You will always have the rest of them pointing back at you. That said, it needs to be made crystal clear on the "rules" of territory wars so as to avoid further issues like this arising.

Fourth, on my ban. The only thing I've been told at all by any GM, thus far, is that my bid "negatively effected" others enjoyment of the game. I can't count how many people their decision "negatively effected" the enjoyment of the game. I hope it comes to a reasonable resolution in the end and everyone can manage to either find some enjoyment in the game, or move on to another one.

Alax

Bludd - Harshlands

First, there was a bid on the spot you overbid. It was done so, to allow you the time slot in TW vs Calamity by manipulating your knowledge of how the scheduling is done to gain an unfair advantage. This is nothing new for Equinox, under Aubree's rule or any other. Ajay was the one to teach me how to watch and where to bid for strategic advantages.

When I read this and GM's email to the other guy all I see is, you can't use strategy. Of course, if we don't use strategy the rules say we'll get banned for that too. So really, we're just ****ed.

Conavar - Heavens Tear

Bludd - Harshlands wrote: »

How about a GM explain this one to me. How can it possibly be a fake bid if no one else is bidding on the land and you have the intention of showing up (even if it's only to buy poison pots; which I have done before)?

Easy dont need a GM. It's the same rule there has aways been.

If you bid with the intention of not fighting or trying to win or turning up with 2 ppl to buy pots then it is a fake bid because it influences the times of the other legitimate bids.

It's how guilds stop ganks they know they cant win

Which falls under :

to circumvent the fair play of the system is prohibited.

Lutirica - Harshlands

To me it seems the main thing that needs to change are the "to low lvl and not enough people" pwi gets money still for even low lvls joining in they may not win tw by themselves but factions always have low lvls to fill the tw entrance amount of people.

1. so you should simply change the to low lvl part

2. and the to few people part basically

b:thanks

Bludd - Harshlands

Incorrect. If I'm bidding to buy pots, then that is, in fact, fair play. It's the ONLY way to get pots. If it changes other people's TW that really isn't my problem or concern.

I'm still waiting to hear how factions learn to TW, especially against big, established factions without "practice wars". Or are you perhaps suggesting we all go play a private server for that kind of experience?

Slivaf - Dreamweaver

Conavar - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Easy dont need a GM. It's the same rule there has aways been.

If you bid with the intention of not fighting or trying to win or turning up with 2 ppl to buy pots then it is a fake bid because it influences the times of the other legitimate bids.

It's how guilds stop ganks they know they cant win

Which falls under :

I am still curious as to how it isn't fair for the defending faction, guess the unfairness outweighs the single fairness for one faction. =x

Which sounds oh so wrong.

But meh, whatever, it doesn't seem like we will be getting a clear cut reason as to how these rules are really suppose to be enforced any time soon. Some of which are obviously unclear to many.

Lutirica - Harshlands

Bludd - Harshlands wrote: »

Incorrect. If I'm bidding to buy pots, then that is, in fact, fair play. It's the ONLY way to get pots. If it changes other people's TW that really isn't my problem or concern.

I'm still waiting to hear how factions learn to TW, especially against big, established factions without "practice wars". Or are you perhaps suggesting we all go play a private server for that kind of experience?

i think the answer may be in the question......

Practice wars why dont they just simply make practice wars? Where you can practice just not get anything out of it? have it just against mobs if the faction that enters cant take on the mobs they cant enter territory wars? Now that would make matters simple.

b:thanks b:thanks

tori2

Lutirica - Harshlands wrote: »

i think the answer may be in the question......

Practice wars why dont they just simply make practice wars? Where you can practice just not get anything out of it? have it just against mobs if the faction that enters cant take on the mobs they cant enter territory wars? Now that would make matters simple.

b:thanks b:thanks

One error in this thinking. That would require work to be done.

Lutirica - Harshlands

tori2 wrote: »

One error in this thinking. That would require work to be done.

oh like that would hurt them they would get more money if they did it b:laugh

Conavar - Heavens Tear

Slivaf - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I am still curious as to how it isn't fair for the defending faction.

Well I dont think the system was supposed to be 100% fair for the defending faction if they own multiple lands. It's why they allow more than 1 att . The problem lays when the defender tries to tip the " fairness " in their favour by lessening the number of att's on them at any given time.

quiv

In all due respect...

Having played (and was VGM of one of the top 3 guilds) PW-MY which was riddled by fake bids from a certain one or two guilds to avoid loosing lands.

The new changes in the system does make it more difficult to know who is bidding on whatever particular piece of land... There is no more "gold return".. any coin bid.. is lost.. no matter the outcome... all very good changes.

And.. while having the "extreme limits" of what is fake bidding, such as small guilds, mid-lvl guilds etc, that also is restricting somewhat the amount of TW that occurs.. with the result being.. a single color map... which is happening from what I've been seeing.

"Fun TWS" or "Training TWs" arent really "fake bidding" imo.. if its a 2 min war.. its a 2 min war.. Guilds here have max 200 members, and only 80 may go on one battlefield at a time. If is a nooby guild.. all you need to do is send one party.

Fake bids are when the guild leader (or other ranked person), bids on a piece of land that is legitimately being bid on, with a max bid (200m on PW-MY as of today even) to avoid having to defend it.. The winning guild, got back "most" of the gold/coin they bid.. and there was no repercussions. Which is not the case today.

Alliances and strategy when it comes to bidding is what "not as strong" guilds need to do in order to take out the "big guys" that own the majority of the map. On PW-MY i've seen alot of different strategies when it comes to bidding.. things to do to avoid being fake bidded back, things to "set times", have it so every single land of the "big guy" is being attacked... I've seen (and been a part of) "pot buying TWs" for several weeks in a row.. only to have the defending guild finally give in the "boy who cried wolf", and seize a land (after a long TW).

The new changes to the TW system, requires another look at the current rules. The current situation on the servers is much different now.. than they were when those rules were made. Times changes.. so must the rules that we are forced to live by After all.. you don't see men waving lanterns 50 feet in front of an automobile anymore, now do we... In the city that I live close to.. that is still a law in the books... of course.. no one does it... cause that law was made back in the late 1800s.

Lutirica - Harshlands

What practice wars would be is a chance to tw against mobs to train and gain entrance to the real tw land takeing b:shutup

quiv

I disagree... TW is about guild vs guild.. not guild vs npc...