I heard they changed Nirvana....

Paramedic - Dreamweaver

those guys dont waste charms or apo cuz they dont use them. too expensive to rely on them when you farm

cheaper is to use p.shell, 79 skills, sparks and genie


anyway, in that 2nd link i would change hat to OHT or 80lvl green one even - since it s way cheaper to get it (1m) and then you can 4 sock it (10 grade)


also 99 gold boots are kinda waste of money

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

VlLKASS - Sanctuary wrote: »

VILKASS: [/COLOR]6-7.8 mgk atk at 100.... lol... you serious?... b:embarrass yeah sure if you plant your cleric on follow that just runs around after you while you tank, like Deceptistar has mentioned... then maybe that's ok... [/SIZE][/b]

um yeah lol... most melee just look for over bloated slaves.

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

8817-11261 matk

http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=ca4e92fc6cdb094c

That's a decent and solid build any non-cash shopper should be able to get with a little effort. The only thing crappy is the Perfect Attendance Ring.

Also, this IS an average build for a cleric that is applying for one of the top guilds. Anything less and they'll likely be turned down. Most of the clerics in our faction are far better geared than this.

i saw the pdef and cried a little inside.

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Rawthorne - Heavens Tear wrote: »

http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=b2aee575005f2639

Made a few minor adjustments for ya there Michael. 1. Coa ring is 15kk+ on HT and not worth it imo for magic classes on a budget so I replaced w/ a 98 mold ring (tempted replace attendance ring as well w/ a mold ring but not much diffference either way). 2. TT90 gold helm...bah for price of gold mats etc. may as well go for warsoul helm since it also refines better.

CoA ring was there just to put a ring in. The molder ring you put in is ****. Any OHT ring with good stats would be better. The HH90 hat and 99 boots are there because they can be nirvana'd. Boot boss is BH boss, so perhaps the mats would be easier for someone to get. Nirvana helm is so much better than Warsoul helm. I didn't put Warsoul helm because it's an event item. I wanted to keep the build free of 'cash shop' items. Cape of Elite Leather would be pretty much standard if you couldn't afford -chan or pdef cape, both of which are cash shop items... and you know how borsuc likes to QQ about event stuff.

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

i saw the pdef and cried a little inside.

Paramedic thinks 4k pdef is fine, so I didn't bother sharding garnets.

Of course this wouldn't be my ideal ep build, it would just be a cheap and generic one showing that 5k hp with 3 vit isn't all that difficult to get nor is it a cash shop or even elite build.

Anyone who has spent enough time to hit 100 should be able to farm and refine close to that without any real effort.

Rawthorne - Heavens Tear

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

CoA ring was there just to put a ring in. The molder ring you put in is ****. Any OHT ring with good stats would be better. The HH90 hat and 99 boots are there because they can be nirvana'd. Boot boss is BH boss, so perhaps the mats would be easier for someone to get. Nirvana helm is so much better than Warsoul helm. I didn't put Warsoul helm because it's an event item. I wanted to keep the build free of 'cash shop' items. Cape of Elite Leather would be pretty much standard if you couldn't afford -chan or pdef cape, both of which are cash shop items... and you know how borsuc likes to QQ about event stuff.

Coa ring goes for 15-20kk on ht. Mold ring goes for 2-400k. Mold ring has 136 mag attack and 8 vit (if max stats) while a 3 star oht ring has 85 mag attack (b4 adds) so very difficult to get good oht ring that's better (w/out spending an arm and a leg; which I thought was the point of this build and tbh idk if I've ever seen a "better" oht ring vs mold ring when you factor in all of the adds). Yes tt90 helm etc. can become nirvana....but for the cost vs warsoul (when warsoul can be refined higher and is much better) warsoul wins vs tt90 gold anyday cuz its pretty much cheaper/similar cost to get a warsoul helm vs a shtty **** tt90 helm. The whole point in this exercise was a min cost Full mag cleric w/ over 5k hp @ level 100 I thought. Where you go f/ there is up to everyone's personal choice. If you wanna say use tt90 gold helm cuz it can become nirvana (rather then using warsoul helm) you might as well use tt90 gold cape (rather then elite leather) for exact same reason you posted. But you already know...not worth the hassle/price when cheaper/similar alternatives work much better and worry about Nirvana sht much later.

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Rawthorne - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Coa ring goes for 15-20kk on ht. Mold ring goes for 2-400k. Mold ring has 136 mag attack and 8 vit (if max stats) while a 3 star oht ring has 85 mag attack (b4 adds) so very difficult to get good oht ring that's better (w/out spending an arm and a leg; which I thought was the point of this build and tbh idk if I've ever seen a "better" oht ring vs mold ring when you factor in all of the adds). Yes tt90 helm etc. can become nirvana....but for the cost vs warsoul (when warsoul can be refined higher and is much better) warsoul wins vs tt90 gold anyday cuz its pretty much cheaper/similar cost to get a warsoul helm vs a shtty **** tt90 helm. The whole point in this exercise was a min cost Full mag cleric w/ over 5k hp @ level 100 I thought. Where you go f/ there is up to everyone's personal choice. If you wanna say use tt90 gold helm cuz it can become nirvana (rather then using warsoul helm) you might as well use tt90 gold cape (rather then elite leather) for exact same reason you posted. But you already know...not worth the hassle/price when cheaper/similar alternatives work much better and worry about Nirvana sht much later.

No, the whole thing wasn't designed as a 'min cost' build or I wouldn't even have bothered with 99 sleeves or boots. Just an average solid build I came up just to prove a point.

Like I was even bothering to put an optimized build in there. A 3* 91 arcane hat with a couple +pres or an OHT hat with +pres would even be better than waroul hat and much cheaper too. So that argument is pretty stupid. Sorry, Warsoul arcane hat is **** and a waste of a championship scroll. Coa ring can be farmed for free, duh. Why the hell pay for it if you can use it, sell it later to help buy a lunar ring? I have two that cost nothing except a few guild runs. Besides, if you even read the post.... I wasn't even concerned with matk. That was just a quick and simple 'hey it's not hard'. I even forgot to refine the pants.

I'm sure my 3* OHT ring with +7 vit +35 matk +31 matk is much better than that crappy mold, as well as a few more rings HP rings or matk rings that I have in my bank that cost nothing. Hey, I could also use 4 socket 3* OHT wrists or boots that I have in bank as well, but that's just me. At 100 you should have at least crafted a few good OHT items.

Why bother not using gear that can be later upgraded? Sorry, don't see what your point is because obviously you missed mine. b:bye

Jette - Lost City

yay cleric debate FTW.... I used to be very stubborn about my full mag build cleric... ... my first concern was I couldn't heal as good by adding vit, because before then I was able to out heal and out dd (when I was free to) any cleric up to 10 lvls higher than me... but when I got kicked from my first rebirth squad do to low hp before even starting despite having the creater of the squad vouch for me it kind of made me wonder... was definitely a blow to my pride.

So I restated at around the time bhs came out...and I will admit I liked having a bit more health at that lvl...did my heals and pve go down...yea a bit...but wasn't a drastic knock off like I thought...but it also gave me some liberty with my healing members who hadn't taken aggro of every single mob. (thank god for guardian's light)... am I a full support/ full vit cleric... no... if I attended to be I would have gone sage instead of demon...I like 1v1 pvp but in TW and other things full vit has an advantage... so no point of bashing it...

I don't play my cleric much anymore so I haven't bothered to regear it and restat it. I did plan to go back to full mag when I save up for enough dragon orbs to refine the armor good enough to have 6k hp unbuffed...was working with the idea on one of the pw calculator programs...it comes to personal tastes... Vit builds do have the advantage in TW, but geared right full mag can be successful most of the same areas.

Solandri - Heavens Tear

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

The molder ring you put in is ****. Any OHT ring with good stats would be better.

Here's the probability table for the OHT rings:
http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/items/20391

The mold ring is +134 matk and +7/8 vit, which works out to +70/80 hp for most casters, +84/96 hp for venos.

For the OHT ring to be better than the mold ring, you need 2x +28 or better matk, and +7/8 vit or one of the +hp mods. Your chance to get +28, +31, or +35 matk is 7.59%. Your chance to get +7/8 vit, +120 hp, or +135 hp is 4.68%. Assuming a 25% chance of 0, 1, 2, or 3 add-ons (which I really doubt - 3 add-ons seems to be rare), that works out to a 0.0067% chance to make an OHT ring better than the mold ring. Or 1 in 14,836.

I'd say it's a heckuva lot easier just to get a pair of the mold rings than to create almost 30,000 OHT rings trying to match or better its stats. I've managed to nab four OHT rings with >134 matk and +str or +mag for my heavy veno over months of camping AH. In that time, I've only ever seen two OHT rings for sale with 2x +matk and max +vit/hp mods.

Borsuc - Raging Tide

Well it's just Michael_Dark spreading **** again about "little" effort and "a few" hard work that doesn't match reality nor experiences (except maybe his). Little effort means several months of 16/7 playing like a dork (which wouldn't surprise me) and "a few" OHT items obviously means tens of thousands.

Or, yet again, he got lucky and is giving his **** advices as if everyone could get it. (it has to average out... for refines, for example, for every above-average luck there's someone with below-average luck).

He doesn't understand logic, statistics, or math, nor listen to them. It's pointless to argue.


And wow saying warsoul arcane helm is a waste of championship scroll, I facepalmed so hard. There's a stat in it not available in any other helm but I wouldn't be surprised if he missed it.

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »

Well it's just Michael_Dark spreading **** again about "little" effort and "a few" hard work that doesn't match reality nor experiences (except maybe his). Little effort means several months of 16/7 playing like a dork (which wouldn't surprise me) and "a few" OHT items obviously means tens of thousands.

Or, yet again, he got lucky and is giving his **** advices as if everyone could get it. (it has to average out... for refines, for example, for every above-average luck there's someone with below-average luck).

He doesn't understand logic, statistics, or math, nor listen to them. It's pointless to argue.


And wow saying warsoul arcane helm is a waste of championship scroll, I facepalmed so hard. There's a stat in it not available in any other helm but I wouldn't be surprised if he missed it.

It's pointless to argue with someone as stupid as you are.

QQ more about how hard the game is... surprise they made it even harder. Beg more for coins.

You're a hyper-oracle nub. And an idiot to boot.

"omg interval is so horrible and mages suck"

Go away. You're beyond ridiculous. You're just sad and pathetic. Way to bash me on a necro'd thread. That's JUST how much sense you make. b:bye

WaffleChan - Sanctuary

Way to bash me on a necro'd thread.

knock it off noobs, necros are nono

Borsuc - Raging Tide

Are you on crack or something? Because I don't see anything of what you said has any relevance to what I said. I mean where the hell do you pull this off, I just cannot understand how anyone could have such a logic.

I was talking about your **** advices... completely unrealistic, and not down to earth for any sane person (it may apply to no-life dorks, I dunno). Most of them also show a lack of skill by compensating with gear. Your expectations for gear are absurd, not because they are unreachable or hard to get, but because they are mostly worthless for the job at hand... unless you play like a noob.

Not just about builds & gear but also your advices in delta like everyone should be charmed. Hyper noobs do full run with TT90 with few refines uncharmed and you "old school pros" have to be charmed to complete it. b:chuckle

And lastly don't bother responding if all you add is the same generic **** you put in all threads personally against me. QQ more about hyper nubs that have better skill than you. Because we know you want the level/stat advantage cause you otherwise suck.

EDIT: I don't care about necro I was just going along the line of the statistical data/example provided by Solandri

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »

Are you on crack or something? Because I don't see anything of what you said has any relevance to what I said. I mean where the hell do you pull this off, I just cannot understand how anyone could have such a logic.

I was talking about your **** advices... completely unrealistic, and not down to earth for any sane person (it may apply to no-life dorks, I dunno). Most of them also show a lack of skill by compensating with gear. Your expectations for gear are absurd, not because they are unreachable or hard to get, but because they are mostly worthless for the job at hand... unless you play like a noob.

Not just about builds & gear but also your advices in delta like everyone should be charmed. Hyper noobs do full run with TT90 with few refines uncharmed and you "old school pros" have to be charmed to complete it. b:chuckle

And lastly don't bother responding if all you add is the same generic **** you put in all threads personally against me. QQ more about hyper nubs that have better skill than you. Because we know you want the level/stat advantage cause you otherwise suck.

EDIT: I don't care about necro I was just going along the line of the statistical data/example provided by Solandri

You really have nothing worth directly commenting, so you want to be a nub idiot, be one, but I'm going to call you on it especially when you feel some inane urge to attack me for no other reason than you being absolutely horrible at your class.

You said:

Little effort means several months of 16/7 playing like a dork (which wouldn't surprise me

Your 'featured' achievements (the ones you selected to show off) Log in Once a Day for 30 Days... 'What's Sleep'... logged in for 12 hours or more in a day... and Cash Shop King... OMG farming is too hard for you... playing is too hard for you. **** and go away. Pokemon online is probably better suited to you.

You're a freaking moron. Cash shop more because you can't farm. Mr "mages are horrible at everything"... yes, I'm quite sure YOU are the horrible one.

Go away until you actually have an intelligible statement worth responding directly to that doesn't directly contradict whatever else you choose to say.

WaffleChan - Sanctuary

see i can argue like borsuc too.

You really have nothing

you dont either, you poor, destitute and deprived character!

(the ones you selected to show off)

i can show off because im freakin awesome.

too hard

thats what she said!

'What's Sleep'

its when my body wants to rest, noob

Cash

i have some and you dont haha

OMG

no wai.

Borsuc - Raging Tide

LOL what the hell are you talking about? You don't "select" those achievements those are automatically put in there based on their buggy logs, I never even went to my profile since ages ago. (ok I was today to look at it, new system and all).

I don't know how I got cash shop king, all I ever bought from normal boutique (not event boutique, don't think that matters does it?) was like 50 1* D.orb packs (of 10, maybe it counts it as 10 items) with like ~90 gold... with the sale, that I used to refine my weapon. Seriously all other boutique-stuff I have like mount & aerogear and tome were bought from other players (wind widgets, tome pages, etc).

It's not based on what you charged either, because all the 90 gold was bought for around ~320k each from AH (in 30 gold chunks) way before the D.Orb sale... when gold was cheap like that (no packs in boutique either, except Corals ofc).

I even got an email saying something like "we've seen you level up all the way to 100, but you never charged your zen! now is your chance special 15% off for f2p players" (ok not EXACTLY like that but same idea... they would never say f2p players ofc) a while back. (yes I've been 100 for a while, I didn't even hyper "FC" (meh) except helping friends with FC, I do run cube daily though, QQ more about 1 mil exp reward ???).

Only days I've been staying up so late were when doing multiple deltas one after another because of friends buggin me... and then I admit I didn't even sleep b:shocked I almost fell asleep farming herbs once after that day until the squad was ready... delta surely keeps me awake lol (my personal action music helps too :P).

Lastly, I never said the game is too hard as in CHALLENGING. Maybe except the new TT3-x of course... delta is challenging & fun without OP gears and charms. It's why I like it. (also the fact that a wiz is highly useful there). Too bad not many ppl run it

But I said the game is too hard as in getting your stuff regardless of challenge. There's nothing challenging about grinding, for example, or farming a simple TT, but it can be HARD to get your **** done or farmed. I hate hard games, I love challenging games. This game is former and not very challenging in most instances, which is why you saw me QQ about stuff before (not anymore since I won't repeat it over and over). Blame me.

I don't know why I posted this stuff... maybe because I just found your post too funny lol.

You made me facepalm so hard rofl. You seriously just made my day with that post. b:laugh

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »

I've been 100 for a while, I didn't even hyper "FC" (meh) except helping friends with FC, I do run cube daily though, QQ more about 1 mil exp reward ???).

lol, you got form 92 to 100 in less than a month? On just dailies? lol riiight. No worries, I have no problem with people hyper frosting. As for the achievements... last I looked they were empty spots.... so whatever. *shrug*

Lastly, I never said the game is too hard as in CHALLENGING. Maybe except the new TT3-x of course... delta is challenging & fun without OP gears and charms. It's why I like it. (also the fact that a wiz is highly useful there). Too bad not many ppl run it

Oh, BS... You used to whine and complain how the game was too hard, it was too hard to farm, you didn't level fast enough and you couldn't make any coin so you wanted a stupid coin quest rewards.

Delta? Oh, I thought you never had 2-3 hours to sit and play the game? You used to complain about how things shouldn't ever take so long because you didn't have that kind of time to dedicate to one thing in-game. My, how things have changed. xP

But I said the game is too hard as in getting your stuff regardless of challenge. There's nothing challenging about grinding, for example, or farming a simple TT, but it can be HARD to get your **** done or farmed. I hate hard games, I love challenging games. This game is former and not very challenging in most instances, which is why you saw me QQ about stuff before (not anymore since I won't repeat it over and over). Blame me.

I don't know why I posted this stuff... maybe because I just found your post too funny lol.

You made me facepalm so hard rofl. You seriously just made my day with that post. b:laugh

You hate hard games but you want a challenge. lol. That's just too funny. I won't even take that anywhere because it's hilarious enough... so you want tic-tac-toe with the complexity of chess. Good luck with that one.

kenlee

oh you lvled an archer and wiz too?

btw, this thread need to be closed

Michael_Dark - Lost City

kenlee wrote: »

oh you lvled an archer and wiz too?

btw, this thread need to be closed

Who me?

On this account I have my 102 BM, a 90 WF, 50 MG on LC. On HL I leveled and abandoned a 72 EA and 4x WF before packs or BH were introduced... Miji's over Swiftwind, Skull Mountain, Foxies and bats the old fashion way.

If you weren't directing that at me.... b:avoid

Loltank - Harshlands

To be fair to at least one of Borsuc's points, mages ARE pretty terrible at farming. As now-mediocre PvE DDs, our life is a lot harder when it comes to gearing up than, say, a 5APS character.

I had to buy every mat for all of my TT gear from AH since I was 6x. I'll hit 99 this weekend sometime, which means no more buying mats for me. I'm going to have to just suck it up and pray I can find a squad generous enough to donate the mats I need.

But hey, that's why you have guildies: to get things done.

NightRage - Raging Tide

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

Who me?

On this account I have my 102 BM, a 90 WF, 50 MG on LC. On HL I leveled and abandoned a 72 EA and 4x WF before packs or BH were introduced... Miji's over Swiftwind, Skull Mountain, Foxies and bats the old fashion way.

If you weren't directing that at me.... b:avoid

WFMGEAMEEEEEEEEEEEEEEJEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEee lol.

b:kiss

Borsuc - Raging Tide

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

lol, you got form 92 to 100 in less than a month? On just dailies? lol riiight. No worries, I have no problem with people hyper frosting. As for the achievements... last I looked they were empty spots.... so whatever. *shrug*

???

I said "I've been 100 for a while". Hint: not many people take lvl100s or even lvl99s to FC because of nerf. Hypering in FC is worse than hypering in 3rd map due to nerf at lvl100. I'm just amazed where did you get the lvl92 to 100 stuff, just where are you pulling this stuff from? I was talking about lvl100-lvl101... I only went to FC like 2 times and only because lvl100 friends asked me to, got maybe around 7% from both (at lvl100 i mean). Rest was from events, cube, delta, whatever else. (no I do NOT run those for exp... cube i run for page of fate, events for rewards (obviously) and delta for drops/frags/coins...)

And empty spots... the CORE system is supposed to highlight the ones you accomplished, and mark grey the ones you still have yet to accomplish. Automatically. Only way to prevent others from looking at it is by disabling access to strangers in your profile -- why would I do that, I don't care either way.

Do note though that while most of my "achievements" are true, some of the logs are false. It says I haven't completed any unique quests at all, for example. I've done almost all quests, only ones remaining are Harpy Wraith demon quest, TT3-3 quest and warsong quest (nobody does full warsong anymore, just for bh *sigh*), and lunar quest to kill 20 frigoris prajnas or whatever they are called (is it trophy mode or what?). For some people, many of them are reset or totally wrong. Some even had their kill count reset (something which was working ok before). I didn't expect PWE to make anything without bugs or wrong info on their logs.

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

Oh, BS... You used to whine and complain how the game was too hard, it was too hard to farm, you didn't level fast enough and you couldn't make any coin so you wanted a stupid coin quest rewards.

Delta? Oh, I thought you never had 2-3 hours to sit and play the game? You used to complain about how things shouldn't ever take so long because you didn't have that kind of time to dedicate to one thing in-game. My, how things have changed. xP

I still don't understand why you are missing the point.

But yes I probably didn't use the right words I apologize for that. So let me define stuff in advance to avoid confusion on the statement.

Hard = tedious repeating stuff over and over and over again, so many times it takes you a lot of time to do it. It can be even AFK-macroed but it would still take time. Heck even a bot could do it. Most lower TT runs fit into this category. Absolutely YUCK. Even Nirvana fits the bill. I mean, sweet Jesus, 100 raptures just for g13 weapon... how many runs would that take. Even though a run is easy to do & not difficult, it is freaking hard (if you get what i mean by this definition). Boring, snorefest, craptastic is all I can say.

Difficult/Challenging = struggling to do something JUST ONCE or A FEW TIMES, but due to its challenging nature, it is difficult and requires tactics & skill and whatever. It can be time-consuming.

Hard is BS, yes I complain game is too hard on the coin aspect. It was too hard before bh for exp aspect as well.

The 2nd one is awesome tho. Does this answer your question?


I have nothing with 2-3 hours a day since it's continual challenge not repeating UNCHALLENGING stuff. Getting coins through grinding for 2-3 hours, in comparison, is plain boring (i.e "hard" since it takes a long time) but not challenging.

There's a huge difference between a, let's say, challenging 2-3 hours (like a TW for example!) and 2-3 hours of repeating what you just do in 3 minutes (AOE grinding). If a game requires 2nd form to "get stuff done" it's yuck.

Unfortunately very few challenging stuff has that good of rewards to match up, making this game pretty bland. -_-

WaffleChan - Sanctuary

Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »

???

too much ****

be the bigger man, and ignore him.