I heard they changed Nirvana....

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Paramedic - Dreamweaver wrote: »

if u need that for nirvana then to learn play properly

Ever hear of a support cleric, or are you one of those failed metal mages with horrible gear? How much HP you have? 4k? lol

VlLKASS - Sanctuary

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

My lvl 100 cleric has 6.5k hp unbuffed. What's so hard to believe about that?

Learn how to stat properly. b:bye

To be a fail vit cleric? No ty b:bye

I support just fine while being squishy.

Redmenace - Heavens Tear

VlLKASS - Sanctuary wrote: »

b:embarrass charmed NV.... lol


Since you're talking about "normal" squads, where I suppose a puppy is tanking, I'm sure they can take 1-2 extra hits while the cleric takes care of the party...


Already done that boss a few times. It's only a prob if the cleric is very bad & metal maging instead of healing the party, so when aoe hits seal that tank got no staked IH & gets wasted... + If you're going with barbs I'm assuming by 100 they know the skill invoke if they notice others in squad are in trouble...

You pick.

Enough chi to spam FleshReam to keep aggro from 5.0 DDers

or

Enough sparks for invoke.

While you're at it, make sure that barb is uncharmed, since you're convinced it's a crutch.

RedMenace

\again, glad there's more than one server

Redmenace - Heavens Tear

Rawthorne - Heavens Tear wrote: »

3. It's an end game instance; it SHOULD be difficult and require ppl to work together and have decent gear. I like it cuz it's harder so thus the prices will go up cuz all the nubs w/ **** gear and don't know how to play their class will give up on nirvana. I'm one of those masochists who prefers old ff/lunar. Now if I can only stop going w/ those nubs and working my **** off to keep them aliveb:angry.

Great Job PWI for making the instance easy for the first few months, assuring the already heavy-hitters had enough time to farm it and nirvana everything they wear.

Then change it as the rest come up behind them to challenge.

Tease > Nerf > sell moar packs > PROFIT

RedMenace

Balthier - Dreamweaver

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

Ever hear of a support cleric, or are you one of those failed metal mages with horrible gear? How much HP you have? 4k? lol

Altough you have alot of good posts on alot of topics Michael, I really wouldn't try to ridicule a cleric you don't know anything about ^^

I take pride in being a very good (maybe even outstanding o.O) cleric, and I can do most things alot better than lvl 100+ clerics with much more HP than me (speaking from experience having run countless instances with said clerics), but on one run with Para I quickly learned to take the back-seat (ok, so it was my 1st 3-3, so that wasn't too hard to do), he is a damn good cleric, even if he has less HP than me b:laugh

HP is no way to determine if one cleric will survive a run or not, knowing if the cleric is skilled is. I've done duo Belial runs with a BM many times, with my HP at that time being around 4.8k. Things arn't hard if you know what to do, im just saying

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Balthier - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Altough you have alot of good posts on alot of topics Michael, I really wouldn't try to ridicule a cleric you don't know anything about ^^

I take pride in being a very good (maybe even outstanding o.O) cleric, and I can do most things alot better than lvl 100+ clerics with much more HP than me (speaking from experience having run countless instances with said clerics), but on one run with Para I quickly learned to take the back-seat (ok, so it was my 1st 3-3, so that wasn't too hard to do), he is a damn good cleric, even if he has less HP than me b:laugh

HP is no way to determine if one cleric will survive a run or not, knowing if the cleric is skilled is. I've done duo Belial runs with a BM many times, with my HP at that time being around 4.8k. Things arn't hard if you know what to do, im just saying

Yes, well I guess since everything has been nerfed, a cleric doesn't need much hp. My ep's build was basically made for old frost/old lunar and for TW cata team. You needed a lot of HP for these, it's quite important. If you don't have the HP to survive all the skills in the world won't matter, which is why any hybrid or support cleric is basically recommended ot have 100-150 pts into vit, because you don't need to have metal-god status matk, you need to be able to survive so you can heal. It's also why a Nirvana cleric should have over 5k hp unbuffed. Circles, exploding turkeys, whatever. It's not fun dying every time someone else makes a mistake.

Usually, clerics that get the most defensive about their HP are the metal mages.

VlLKASS - Sanctuary

Redmenace - Heavens Tear wrote: »

You pick.

Enough chi to spam FleshReam to keep aggro from 5.0 DDers

or

Enough sparks for invoke.

While you're at it, make sure that barb is uncharmed, since you're convinced it's a crutch.

RedMenace

\again, glad there's more than one server

Learn to read... I was talking about normal squads.... Not runs with a bunch of 5 apsers...

Hot_one_G - Heavens Tear

yes they have changed it and i am a cleric and got the random aggro ......didnt die from it tho if the cleric are dying then thier tank must suck lmao or they are very squishy cleric , unless maybe on the running boss ....and of course they would rather you buy gold for packs or lunar ....hello why else would they change it if it werent for money ...seems thats what all the changes are for .....so they make more money ....just to bad that it was so easy for some and now so hard for the rest .....but really nirvana is still not that bad ....if you have a good squad . btw did anyone notice difference in 3-3 as well, did one last night and OMG.

Balthier - Dreamweaver

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

Yes, well I guess since everything has been nerfed, a cleric doesn't need much hp. My ep's build was basically made for old frost/old lunar and for TW cata team. You needed a lot of HP for these, it's quite important. If you don't have the HP to survive all the skills in the world won't matter, which is why any hybrid or support cleric is basically recommended ot have 100-150 pts into vit, because you don't need to have metal-god status matk, you need to be able to survive so you can heal. It's also why a Nirvana cleric should have over 5k hp unbuffed. Circles, exploding turkeys, whatever. It's not fun dying every time someone else makes a mistake.

Usually, clerics that get the most defensive about their HP are the metal mages.

Haha, well, that might be true. I can assure you I'm not a metal mage though And indeed, my life got alot easier with 5k+ HP. I would've loved to be able to be a CT cleric. I was one time, I actually did manage to keep my barb up for a bit longer (ninja-cleric-hiding-behind-the-corner-wall ftw b:victory (then alt-tab got invented >.<)), but without the ability to cash-shop (poor students b:surrender), I have resigned myself to being in defence teams for now. When my merchanting career starts to get me back to a competitive point, I will most likely alter my stats somewhat to better be able to support my faction in TWs, but thats still a way off. I do have 75 base VIT though (added from 50 to get over the 5k HP barrier).

I've obviously never done Nirvana, so I can't really contribute to this discussion, but if the cleric has 5001 HP he can easily outperform a cleric with 7k HP. And I must say I like that they tweaked Nirvana to make it harder. Gives people like me the chance to earn coins while the Oracle/Hyper noobs QQs and ragequits, cause they cant handle the slightest difficulty b:victory

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Balthier - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Haha, well, that might be true. I can assure you I'm not a metal mage though And indeed, my life got alot easier with 5k+ HP. I would've loved to be able to be a CT cleric. I was one time, I actually did manage to keep my barb up for a bit longer (ninja-cleric-hiding-behind-the-corner-wall ftw b:victory (then alt-tab got invented >.<)), but without the ability to cash-shop (poor students b:surrender), I have resigned myself to being in defence teams for now. When my merchanting career starts to get me back to a competitive point, I will most likely alter my stats somewhat to better be able to support my faction in TWs, but thats still a way off. I do have 75 base VIT though (added from 50 to get over the 5k HP barrier).

I've obviously never done Nirvana, so I can't really contribute to this discussion, but if the cleric has 5001 HP he can easily outperform a cleric with 7k HP. And I must say I like that they tweaked Nirvana to make it harder. Gives people like me the chance to earn coins while the Oracle/Hyper noobs QQs and ragequits, cause they cant handle the slightest difficulty b:victory

Well I've been in Nirvana before the changes, honestly can't say that i've been asked to do it since and haven't been bothered to even try it. Clerics with less than 5k hp would just die if they or someone else screwed up... well more than clerics with more hp. Skilled or not.

I honestly would have been happier had they started out with a more difficult instance and brought down the difficulty than increased it, the latter is quite unfair to be honest.

Sure they needed to really fix it from people who would run 2 or 3 person parties, but due to the high crystal requirement and low drop rates you pretty much had to run parties like that to farm any gear, or participate in some sort of guild system, which I was lucky enough to benefit from.

And we all know it's not really about fairness or game balance.. it's all about their bottom line.

Illyana - Dreamweaver

Pfft, lots of QQ here.

Who takes clerics to Nirvana these days anyway? b:chuckle Do the math for charm/event food.

VlLKASS - Sanctuary

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

Well I've been in Nirvana before the changes, honestly can't say that i've been asked to do it since and haven't been bothered to even try it. Clerics with less than 5k hp would just die if they or someone else screwed up... well more than clerics with more hp. Skilled or not.

I honestly would have been happier had they started out with a more difficult instance and brought down the difficulty than increased it, the latter is quite unfair to be honest.

Sure they needed to really fix it from people who would run 2 or 3 person parties, but due to the high crystal requirement and low drop rates you pretty much had to run parties like that to farm any gear, or participate in some sort of guild system, which I was lucky enough to benefit from.

And we all know it's not really about fairness or game balance.. it's all about their bottom line.

The instance was easy as hell... They added a seal & random agro once in while... I don't see much of a problem with it...

Then how about you go try it... To see it's not that much harder, before going around proclaiming yourself as some pro with superior built that isn't even required for such a weak **** dungeon.


PS: b:angry vit clerics

Who takes clerics to Nirvana these days anyway? Do the math for charm/event food.

QQ no BP for me

Paramedic - Dreamweaver

most deaths on racist boss happen when he start to AoE, so even 5001 hp wont help u since you wont have full hp ( more like 1/2 - 3/4 ).
so to feel really comfortable you would have to get 7k+ hp there or even 10hp if u suck with timing his seals.

also circles spawn twice often so <10k hp will kill you. not to mention that boss aggro on you and seals also

i have 5k now but i know that it wouldnt help me much if i wont do stuff right


it s bit like belial: if u are slow and suck with timing then you gonna die either with 4k hp or 10k

Illyana - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Pfft, lots of QQ here.

Who takes clerics to Nirvana these days anyway? b:chuckle Do the math for charm/event food.

>.< u do feathers and chests next time

Michael_Dark - Lost City

VlLKASS - Sanctuary wrote: »

Then how about you go try it... To see it's not that much harder, before going around proclaiming yourself as some pro with superior built that isn't even required for such a weak **** dungeon.

lol, lets see... I've done... 164 guild runs and enough profit runs to farm 105 Raptures. You do the math. Actually I know a few people that have done 1000+ runs. But, I'm pretty sure there wouldn't be much difficulty... well it can't be harder than 2 man 3-3's. Oh, and I'll go do Nirvana when I feel like it not when someone tells me. :P

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear

Redmenace - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Great Job PWI for making the instance easy for the first few months, assuring the already heavy-hitters had enough time to farm it and nirvana everything they wear.

Then change it as the rest come up behind them to challenge.

Tease > Nerf > sell moar packs > PROFIT

RedMenace

Absolutely true. This game is so unbalanced in many ways. b:bye

tweakz

Redmenace - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Great Job PWI for making the instance easy for the first few months, assuring the already heavy-hitters had enough time to farm it and nirvana everything they wear.

Then change it as the rest come up behind them to challenge.

Tease > Nerf > sell moar packs > PROFIT

RedMenace

^^This and that stupid event (I got kinda rich off of). I was fortunate enough to have the summer off of work, and capable enough of placing usually in the top 5 w/o multiboxing. I could see how it was making the rich richer -as if they need anymore help. (takes money to make money). I don't like seeing people getting handouts either. I started a Sin and couldn't believe how easy it was to make coin at lower levels now. The supply stash + weapon mold quest keep you we armed, and the new quests give more coin. With very little expenses people could have over 1m by the time they're 30 w/o even vending! It's like taxes: the middle man always gets screwed.

I've noticed similar changes in normal mobs and TT bosses as well. I don't think the ones with close range AoE do the random aggro, so it's reasonable. I also noticed my wiz actually very slowly loses MP when spam healing now.

Kniraven - Lost City

Paramedic - Dreamweaver wrote: »

most deaths on racist boss happen when he start to AoE, so even 5001 hp wont help u since you wont have full hp ( more like 1/2 - 3/4 ).
so to feel really comfortable you would have to get 7k+ hp there or even 10hp if u suck with timing his seals.

also circles spawn twice often so <10k hp will kill you. not to mention that boss aggro on you and seals also

i have 5k now but i know that it wouldnt help me much if i wont do stuff right


it s bit like belial: if u are slow and suck with timing then you gonna die either with 4k hp or 10k



>.< u do feathers and chests next time

Someone doesn't even have to **** up.
The seal can happen at the same time as a blackwing spawns making it impossible for that blackwing to be killed in time. You have less than 5k hp? U'r dead. GG, BB, Im out. b:bye

Course if you wanna be pro and quickly "ressurect" over and over + run back into instance before whomever the new random aggro feature has tanking currently dies, im cool with that too.

Paramedic - Dreamweaver

Kniraven - Lost City wrote: »

Someone doesn't even have to **** up.
The seal can happen at the same time as a blackwing spawns making it impossible for that blackwing to be killed in time. You have less than 5k hp? U'r dead. GG, BB, Im out. b:bye

Course if you wanna be pro and quickly "ressurect" over and over + run back into instance before whomever the new random aggro feature has tanking currently dies, im cool with that too.

there are several ways to prevent that


yesterday, in 3 men squad my tank dc'd when boss started to AoE, veno died so i had to tank boss, heal myself and kill black feathers in same time. guess that i just hax


anyway, im not trying to brag, I died on other run on that boss - **** happens.
Died few times more on other bosses as well. It was my first 'revmaped' NV so i was focuses more on checking stuff


but what would you suggest? to add 150-200vit just to be able to do this boss without sweat? u serious?

i will rather play with him a bit more and figure out how to do it 'normally' - with skills


this convo constantly remainds me belial and all **** i heard about best way to do him. I remember one friend restated to LA cuz he squaded with other heavly refined LA cler on him...

imo skill > gear

but that just me and few other **** clers from this topic ..

ShadowOfLife - Dreamweaver

Just did 10 runs in a row, not much change to tbh its still 5 aps tank and cleric heal... the only difference is the tank cant macro anymore and has to pay some attention... dont know what all the QQ is about.

With half decent gear all bosses hit 2.5k or less on you... only once ... then goes back to the tank.

Kniraven - Lost City

Paramedic - Dreamweaver wrote: »

there are several ways to prevent that


yesterday, in 3 men squad my tank dc'd when boss started to AoE, veno died so i had to tank boss, heal myself and kill black feathers in same time. guess that i just hax


anyway, im not trying to brag, I died on other run on that boss - **** happens.
Died few times more on other bosses as well. It was my first 'revmaped' NV so i was focuses more on checking stuff


but what would you suggest? to add 150-200vit just to be able to do this boss without sweat? u serious?

i will rather play with him a bit more and figure out how to do it 'normally' - with skills


this convo constantly remainds me belial and all **** i heard about best way to do him. I remember one friend restated to LA cuz he squaded with other heavly refined LA cler on him...

imo skill > gear

but that just me and few other **** clers from this topic ..

Read the post next time.
I said seal prevents you from killing blackwings when it happens at the same time as them spawning. So sometimes, the squad is going to get hit. They do 5k dmg. You have less than 5k hp, u die.

Sorry but there is no "Skill" involved. Someone could argue they have Law Breaker on their genie but thats about it b:bye

I understand a lot of clerics don't go vit and have 5k hp unbuffed. Thats why in my original post I said I started to bring a Barb just to get them over that bump. Stop trying to be so damned argumentative. I wan't calling you out or threatening your mad skillzez. I said I don't run with clerics unless I can get their hp above 5k because when they die to circles, wings, the small AoE boss that spawns in the phoenix room, or to going to close to one of the phoenix's fires it delays my run.

GTFO kthxbai.

Egaenil - Heavens Tear

put it this way.. all fist 4.0 or 5.0 the run still only last 10-15mins

any other team format = 1hr+

Paramedic - Dreamweaver

Kniraven - Lost City wrote: »

Read the post next time.
I said seal prevents you from killing blackwings when it happens at the same time as them spawning. So sometimes, the squad is going to get hit. They do 5k dmg. You have less than 5k hp, u die.

Sorry but there is no "Skill" involved. Someone could argue they have Law Breaker on their genie but thats about it b:bye

I understand a lot of clerics don't go vit and have 5k hp unbuffed. Thats why in my original post I said I started to bring a Barb just to get them over that bump. Stop trying to be so damned argumentative. I wan't calling you out or threatening your mad skillzez. I said I don't run with clerics unless I can get their hp above 5k because when they die to circles, wings, the small AoE boss that spawns in the phoenix room, or to going to close to one of the phoenix's fires it delays my run.

GTFO kthxbai.

ur nub =D

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Paramedic - Dreamweaver wrote: »

ur nub =D

lol

ur nirvana one-shot b:chuckle

TigerLily - Lost City

OMFG how can people not have about 5k at lvl 100 and expect people to wanna party them.

Seal and than black wings go boom happens a lot after patch. Anyone that has less than 5k will have to wait for ress or just re-spawn and run in again. That slowers the entire run down - so no tanks.

Its not hard/costly at all breaking 5k as cleric. You dont need to add 200 vit out get +8 gear zzzzzzzz

http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=b20695a60749d589

This is my heal bish in **** gear, i never spend any money on it since its a alt. I got a few mirages to +4 and cheap shards. She is not even vit build, she has 50 base and 5500k hp.

Ni faking clue how clerics, that are peoples MAIN chars, have like 4k hp endgame. Its useless for any form of farming.

Paramedic - Dreamweaver

funny how bms and now acher trying to convince me about something and clerics agree with me.. and you still continue..


as i sed before, 5k hp is sure handy in NV but - in the end- it wont save you on feather boss

AoE which hits for 1k-1.5k hp every few seconds + melee aggro (2.5k?) always on cleir, wont let you have that that 5k

something like 7.5k+ would guarantee you to do it easly if u not super unlucky (AoE + hit from random + 5k dmg)


so either you will do this boss right or you will die


ffs you all would not take <5k cler to FC as well? because there is 5k dmg too?

and how much hp cler need to have for HH for you? u take cata clers there or what? o0


seriously, just stop arguing ur writing silly stuff ppl b:surrender

Kniraven - Lost City

Paramedic - Dreamweaver wrote: »

funny how bms and now acher trying to convince me about something and clerics agree with me.. and you still continue..


as i sed before, 5k hp is sure handy in NV but - in the end- it wont save you on feather boss

AoE which hits for 1k-1.5k hp every few seconds + melee aggro (2.5k?) always on cleir, wont let you have that that 5k

something like 7.5k+ would guarantee you to do it easly if u not super unlucky (AoE + hit from random + 5k dmg)


so either you will do this boss right or you will die


ffs you all would not take <5k cler to FC as well? because there is 5k dmg too?

and how much hp cler need to have for HH for you? u take cata clers there or what? o0


seriously, just stop arguing ur writing silly stuff ppl b:surrender

I pity your squads/guild

Paramedic - Dreamweaver

i pity ur clerics?

VlLKASS - Sanctuary

Paramedic - Dreamweaver wrote: »

i pity ur clerics?

I pitty the poster for going wiht their clerics, if they have such lack of skill that need crapload of hp to cover it up.
I'm only refering to hp for nirvana, not TWs

OIdpop - Heavens Tear

cool nirvana got fixed.Use apoth..use plume shell..u dumb clerics.

Paramedic - Dreamweaver

OIdpop - Heavens Tear wrote: »

cool nirvana got fixed.Use apoth..use plume shell..u dumb clerics.

no, this is lame we need to add more hp