I heard they changed Nirvana....

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  • Michael_Dark - Lost City
    Michael_Dark - Lost City Posts: 9,091 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Paramedic - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    wonder why mods tolerate you

    Because it would seem I am doing something right. b:pleased

    b:bye
    I post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.
  • Kupuntu - Sanctuary
    Kupuntu - Sanctuary Posts: 3,008 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Paramedic - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    wonder why mods tolerate you

    Because all the trolls rage at him? (Not meaning you though).
    100% F2P player. Started PW: March 2007, Quit PW: March 2011.
    pwcalc.com/e7016929e7b204ae "Pure axe" 8k HP multipath BM, last one of my kind.
  • Michael_Dark - Lost City
    Michael_Dark - Lost City Posts: 9,091 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Kupuntu - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Because all the trolls rage at him? (Not meaning you though).

    b:chuckle b:victory
    I post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.
  • Aubree - Dreamweaver
    Aubree - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,868 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Paramedic - Dreamweaver wrote: »

    noone really bother to build 5k+ for farming purposes

    Ummm 6.1k hp unbuffed full farming cleric.. You know how much those mobs in 3-2..3-3 hit for? If you want to survive hits from Belial or Arma boss you need HP. Sorry but investing in survival is important for farming, as you eventually spend too much on gs and res scrolls.
  • VlLKASS - Sanctuary
    VlLKASS - Sanctuary Posts: 1,396 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Aubree - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Paramedic - Dreamweaver wrote: »

    Ummm 6.1k hp unbuffed full farming cleric.. You know how much those mobs in 3-2..3-3 hit for? If you want to survive hits from Belial or Arma boss you need HP. Sorry but investing in survival is important for farming, as you eventually spend too much on gs and res scrolls.


    VILKASS: Lol???.... Last time Arma hit me for ~80k... Care to tell how having 6k hp will help when he 1 shoots my barb? Or are you planting yourself right next to the boss to tank his normal aoe?

    For Belial I agree.


    The reason my EP has 6.5k hp isn't for nirvana it's not for belial. Do I have to keep saying it over and over to finally pound a square peg into a round hole?
    VILKASS: Then don't bring it up in a nirvana discussion related thread. I'm just using your cleric as an example of a hp build, for those posting here about them having trouble surviving in nirvana.


    Sorry, a hyper oracle nub posting in big red letters just makes you look like a moron.
    VILKASS: Lol yes ofcourse the hype nub that got to 102 as one of the 1st on the serv & before any of those were introducted b:bye nub.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Michael_Dark - Lost City
    Michael_Dark - Lost City Posts: 9,091 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    VlLKASS - Sanctuary wrote: »
    VILKASS: Hey doesn't my BIG FLAMING TEXT IN AWESOME COLOR make me look like a GIGANTIC IDIOT?

    Why yes it does. Even more than you would believe.

    b:bye
    I post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.
  • VlLKASS - Sanctuary
    VlLKASS - Sanctuary Posts: 1,396 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »
    Why yes it does. Even more than you would believe.

    b:bye

    VILKASS: b:bye Atleast post something useful nub
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Michael_Dark - Lost City
    Michael_Dark - Lost City Posts: 9,091 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    VlLKASS - Sanctuary wrote: »
    VILKASS: Doesn't this make my points more valid?

    No, because you're an idiot and I don't read it.

    You might as well turn in a dissertation written with fingerpaints.

    b:bye
    I post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.
  • Deceptistar - Sanctuary
    Deceptistar - Sanctuary Posts: 10,454 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »
    For Nirvana 5001 hp has alot more survivability than 5000 hp.

    The circles in the first room deal 5k damage. With 5000 hp you are a 1 shot. With 5001 hp you have double survivability by becoming a 2-shot. You can survive 3-shots with a charm.

    The mobs on the Machino-slit boss deal 5k damage, same as circles.

    The fire with the phoenix boss deal 2.5k damage so a similar argument applies.
    kick the cleric who even dies in the first room of all places. nvm 5kHP.
    Aubree - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Ummm 6.1k hp unbuffed full farming cleric.. You know how much those mobs in 3-2..3-3 hit for? If you want to survive hits from Belial or Arma boss you need HP. Sorry but investing in survival is important for farming, as you eventually spend too much on gs and res scrolls.
    ...when u invest too much on HP this is what happens. Your dont learn how to avoid these shots using your skills nor think of alternatives...and then u turn into the high lvl cleric that just stands and takes being nuked at thinking hp is the one and all elixir. The mobs in 3-2, 3-3 dont hit for that much, if you think they do then that says tons about your defenses and survivability.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]lagunal8.deviantart.com
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  • Paramedic - Dreamweaver
    Paramedic - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,801 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    yeah Michael, call everyone idiots, then rage about difficulty of old frost in nirvana topic

    gg

    tho i have to admit that ur very entertaining person
    BUILD EFFICIENCY CALCULATOR: pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1129681

    AGGRO MECHANICS: pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=481682

    GAME IS DEAD wiki-article: pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=938282
  • Michael_Dark - Lost City
    Michael_Dark - Lost City Posts: 9,091 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Paramedic - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    yeah Michael, call everyone idiots, then rage about difficulty of old frost in nirvana topic

    gg

    tho i have to admit that ur very entertaining person

    No, I don't call everyone idiots. People have to earn the title.

    Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »
    ...when u invest too much on HP this is what happens. Your dont learn how to avoid these shots using your skills nor think of alternatives...and then u turn into the high lvl cleric that just stands and takes being nuked at thinking hp is the one and all elixir. The mobs in 3-2, 3-3 dont hit for that much, if you think they do then that says tons about your defenses and survivability.

    A 100+ cleric should have at least 5k hp with 3 vit. Or you've neglected your gear pretty horribly.
    I post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.
  • tweakz
    tweakz Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »
    No, I don't call everyone lover. Guys have to earn the title.




    A 100+ cleric should have at least 5" peen with 3" width. Or you've neglected your gear pretty horribly.

    And you don't neglect your gear?
    Be kind: Help the GMs to depopulate the servers.
  • Imaspy - Lost City
    Imaspy - Lost City Posts: 23 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    possibly the dumbest addition/change the devs ever decided to do. this imo is worse than packs cause they just made it more of a cash shop to win game. no more coins in tw... meaning only income is from cash shoppers, farming is now impossible so goodbye to hard work? and a new auction system involving only gold gg... why doesn't this game just go p2p already... it seems they are slowly limiting the players who cant afford to cs.
  • Michael_Dark - Lost City
    Michael_Dark - Lost City Posts: 9,091 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    tweakz wrote: »
    And you don't neglect your gear?

    Well all my refines are +5, I have +10 GX and +11 claws. I have 10k hp unbuffed.

    Actually except for my weapons, I'm below average.

    edit: I'll get the rest of my gears up to +6 for you by next weekend. ;3
    I post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.
  • Paramedic - Dreamweaver
    Paramedic - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,801 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »
    No, I don't call everyone idiots. People have to earn the title.
    easy to earn it. just need to not agree with you. maybe not in first or second post but if someone is stubborn enough and continue to argue with you he pretty fast turn out to be an idiot

    saw that in every topic you post

    @Deceptistar

    dont argue - Michael will debunk you as another idiot and what will you do then? D=
    BUILD EFFICIENCY CALCULATOR: pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1129681

    AGGRO MECHANICS: pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=481682

    GAME IS DEAD wiki-article: pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=938282
  • Michael_Dark - Lost City
    Michael_Dark - Lost City Posts: 9,091 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Paramedic - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    @Deceptistar

    dont argue - Michael will debunk you as another idiot and what will you do then? D=

    Umm... lvl 100 cleric, generic gear. Average refines, no event items. Nothing special... 3 vit 5.1k hp:

    http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=b63ef9ecaae6c4b4
    I post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.
  • Nowitsawn - Heavens Tear
    Nowitsawn - Heavens Tear Posts: 4,864 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »
    Umm... lvl 100 cleric, generic gear. Average refines, no event items. Nothing special... 3 vit 5.1k hp:

    http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=b63ef9ecaae6c4b4

    You forgot the refine on the pants, so it's actually even 5,3k b:pleased
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  • Michael_Dark - Lost City
    Michael_Dark - Lost City Posts: 9,091 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Nowitsawn - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    You forgot the refine on the pants, so it's actually even 5,3k b:pleased

    lol whoops. I stand corrected! b:surrender

    edit:

    I even took out the perfect stones and replaced them with immaculates:

    5.2k hp:

    http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=9887d4879f805456
    I post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.
  • Paramedic - Dreamweaver
    Paramedic - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,801 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    and why u are so stubborn with that 5k hp i wont get ever


    i had 4k-ish hp for long time and i could efficiently duo or trio (no i didnt die all the time)

    i have 5.2 for some time and now 5.4, and it still dont prevent from getting one/two shot if i **** up



    5k hp isnt any magical limit value which will allow to do something or not
    BUILD EFFICIENCY CALCULATOR: pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1129681

    AGGRO MECHANICS: pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=481682

    GAME IS DEAD wiki-article: pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=938282
  • Michael_Dark - Lost City
    Michael_Dark - Lost City Posts: 9,091 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Paramedic - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    and why u are so stubborn with that 5k hp i wont get ever


    i had 4k-ish hp for long time and i could efficiently duo or trio (no i didnt die all the time)

    i have 5.2 for some time and now 5.4, and it still dont prevent from getting one/two shot if i **** up



    5k hp isnt any magical limit value which will allow cleric can do something or not


    Hey don't even listen to me, I'm fine with that, listen to Asterelle... I'm pretty sure they're considered relatively intelligent and mostly correct whenever they decide to chime in:


    Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »
    For Nirvana 5001 hp has alot more survivability than 5000 hp.

    The circles in the first room deal 5k damage. With 5000 hp you are a 1 shot. With 5001 hp you have double survivability by becoming a 2-shot. You can survive 3-shots with a charm.

    The mobs on the Machino-slit boss deal 5k damage, same as circles.

    The fire with the phoenix boss deal 2.5k damage so a similar argument applies.
    I post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.
  • Borsuc - Raging Tide
    Borsuc - Raging Tide Posts: 1,526 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »
    Umm... lvl 100 cleric, generic gear.
    Looks pretty high-end to me for a non-cashshopper.
    Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »
    Average refines
    lolwut.
  • VlLKASS - Sanctuary
    VlLKASS - Sanctuary Posts: 1,396 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »
    Umm... lvl 100 cleric, generic gear. Average refines, no event items. Nothing special... 3 vit 5.1k hp:

    http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=b63ef9ecaae6c4b4

    VILKASS: 6-7.8 mgk atk at 100.... lol... you serious?... b:embarrass yeah sure if you plant your cleric on follow that just runs around after you while you tank, like Deceptistar has mentioned... then maybe that's ok...
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Nowitsawn - Heavens Tear
    Nowitsawn - Heavens Tear Posts: 4,864 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    VlLKASS - Sanctuary wrote: »
    6-7.8 mgk atk at 100.... lol... you serious?... b:embarrass yeah sure if you plant your cleric on follow that just runs around after you while you tank, like Deceptistar has mentioned... then maybe that's ok...

    Build was just about the hp a cleric can have without any VIT. As you can see it has 150 free stat points and no shards in the weapon.
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  • Asperitas - Lost City
    Asperitas - Lost City Posts: 907 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Looks pretty high-end to me for a non-cashshopper.lolwut.

    High end? Not even close.
    VlLKASS - Sanctuary wrote: »
    6-7.8 mgk atk at 100.... lol... you serious?... b:embarrass yeah sure if you plant your cleric on follow that just runs around you when you tank, like Deceptistar have mentioned... then maybe that's ok...

    I don't know if it's just me or if I'm missing something, but that build seems to have 150 free points that weren't used lol. Put them back into magic and the matk seems more normal =P
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • VlLKASS - Sanctuary
    VlLKASS - Sanctuary Posts: 1,396 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Asperitas - Lost City wrote: »
    High end? Not even close.



    I don't know if it's just me or if I'm missing something, but that build seems to have 150 free points that weren't used lol. Put them back into magic and the matk seems more normal =P

    VILKASS: Yup, but I was just looking at it if those 150 were atributted into vit, as smb had.

    I'm not arguing you can't get 5k at 100.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Michael_Dark - Lost City
    Michael_Dark - Lost City Posts: 9,091 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Looks pretty high-end to me for a non-cashshopper.lolwut.

    I didn't bother with statting all the points because the build wasn't made to show off matk, just that a 10x cleric should have 5k hp, and without anything special about the build. I put the extra 150 stat points into magic, shareded it and put the weapon to +7, since +7 is relatively easy to get with mirages and Tishas.

    8817-11261 matk

    http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=ca4e92fc6cdb094c

    That's a decent and solid build any non-cash shopper should be able to get with a little effort. The only thing crappy is the Perfect Attendance Ring.

    Also, this IS an average build for a cleric that is applying for one of the top guilds. Anything less and they'll likely be turned down. Most of the clerics in our faction are far better geared than this.

    And yes, for a hyper nub, this would probably look like pretty amazing gear. A year ago, this would have been pretty amazing. Now? This gear wouldn't even turn anyone's head.
    VlLKASS - Sanctuary wrote: »
    VILKASS: My mommy said I had a small pee pee but if I write in big colorful letters nobody will notice.

    Umm... what?
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  • Borsuc - Raging Tide
    Borsuc - Raging Tide Posts: 1,526 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »
    That's a decent and solid build any non-cash shopper should be able to get with a little effort.
    Little effort means precisely what? 1 week? 1 month? 1 year? How many hours per day of playtime, 12?
    Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »
    Also, this IS an average build for a cleric that is applying for one of the top guilds.
    Does not compute.

    The gear alone costs maybe more than 100 mil with all refines, now skillbooks may cost 50 mil or more. But then maybe for you little effort = 6 months of 12hr/day of farming, and hard effort means 5 years or so LOL.

    And don't give me stuff about merching. That's not effort or farming or playing the game as a RPG. Not to mention it depends on ppl who farm instead, and relies on not much competition. Can't work for everyone by definition.
  • _Grim_Reaper - Harshlands
    _Grim_Reaper - Harshlands Posts: 27 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Little effort means precisely what? 1 week? 1 month? 1 year? How many hours per day of playtime, 12?

    Does not compute.

    The gear alone costs maybe more than 100 mil with all refines, now skillbooks may cost 50 mil or more. But then maybe for you little effort = 6 months of 12hr/day of farming, and hard effort means 5 years or so LOL.

    And don't give me stuff about merching. That's not effort or farming or playing the game as a RPG. Not to mention it depends on ppl who farm instead, and relies on not much competition. Can't work for everyone by definition.

    that gear is completely average, for any of the old servers ( LC, HL, HT) if you want to be in one of the top tw guilds u better have ATLEAST hh 90 +5 with g8 shards, the average of most member have about 2 pieces of hh 99 gear and most of the ppl have +6 or +7 refinement. +5 costs only around 2 mil per gear even if you are unlucky if you use tienkungs and mirages. hh 90 gear should be farmed in under 15 hours of running hh. that should sum to about 40 mil or so worth of gear. by doing any sort of grinding/merchanting/ farming hh you can farm that in under 100 hours of playing, it will take you more to lvl andd hyper to 95 than to farm 40m.

    Your mentality is the sort of ppl i say no to when it comes to letting someone inside guild, i know ppl with full nirvana +7 who completely farmed their gear (yes they did play 10 hours a day for almost a year but full nirvana +7 costs well over 800m)
  • Michael_Dark - Lost City
    Michael_Dark - Lost City Posts: 9,091 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Little effort means precisely what? 1 week? 1 month? 1 year? How many hours per day of playtime, 12?

    Does not compute.


    Like I said that's pretty much average gear for a non-hyper oracle frost nub. Everything is 2 or 3 socket. No event items, all the stuff drops for free. How long does it take to farm a full hh90 set? Oh maybe a week if you spend maybe two or three hours a night? The 2 pieces of 99 are a given. The wrists can easily be chipped. Notice I didn't include 99 chest which is expensive and considered and achievement. Even the weapon is the one of the cheapest weapons to farm or even buy.

    Read one of the refining guides that explains how to do it. I've refined 4 sets of armor to +3 with under 200 mirages. 20 Tishas and another 1000 mirages should easily get you to +4, possibly all to +5. That's hardly an investment of time or effort.

    Someone who plays a LOT will farm much nicer gear.

    The gear alone costs maybe more than 100 mil with all refines, now skillbooks may cost 50 mil or more. But then maybe for you little effort = 6 months of 12hr/day of farming, and hard effort means 5 years or so LOL.

    And don't give me stuff about merching. That's not effort or farming or playing the game as a RPG. Not to mention it depends on ppl who farm instead, and relies on not much competition. Can't work for everyone by definition.

    That's without merchanting. Do you actually do anything more in game than hyper frost and BH?
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  • Rawthorne - Heavens Tear
    Rawthorne - Heavens Tear Posts: 400 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=b2aee575005f2639

    Made a few minor adjustments for ya there Michael. 1. Coa ring is 15kk+ on HT and not worth it imo for magic classes on a budget so I replaced w/ a 98 mold ring (tempted replace attendance ring as well w/ a mold ring but not much diffference either way). 2. TT90 gold helm...bah for price of gold mats etc. may as well go for warsoul helm since it also refines better. The refines for it are broke on pwcalc so +5 gives 206 hp NOT 171 hp (which this link gives). So that's 35 more hp for a total of 5201 hp for a pure mag cleric. 3. Want even a cheaper/easier option? Then try this one : http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=5a758ac9fbb6955d That gives 5322 hp w/ a pdef of 5302 (w/ cleric buffs and demon bell; even more w/ sage bell) and damage reduction physical of 8%. The tt99 gold pataka is the cheapest/easiest end game wpn to obtain for magic classes and gives hp/pdef for squishies (which this build needs). Both of these builds are fairly easy/cheap to obtain if ppl put any EFFORT into their character and both builds are 100% average. Oh and also Michael I put those str points f/ necklace into magic.


    Also to Vlikass or whoever said cleric's don't need hp/pdef for armageddon cuz they hit for 80k+....umm hello nub you realize he has fake armageddons as well that randonly target 1 person for phys damage?

    Finally I'm curious how much charm/apoc pots etc. these guys burn through surviving things like aoe f/ Emperor etc. when things go badly. Sure in a perfect world (no pun intended) dd's don't take aggro (and stay away f/ clerics), tanks don't dc, etc. but you NEED to have the hp/pdef to survive when sht goes to hell. For the cost of nonstop apoc pots/charm burnage you can easily refine your gear and not not have these issues. I have refined ALL of my gear to +6-7 and wpn to +9 w/ not 1 dragon orb; just mirages, tishas, and tiengkans. +4-5 is easy to obtain w/ that method; higher refines takes some luck/skill.
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