An Early GM Response to the TW Changes

Okopogo - Harshlands

NightRage - Raging Tide wrote: »

Yes .

Thank you for your Answer kind sir.

Im pretty sure it took you a very long time to accumulate the data necessary,
in order to answer my question.

Asheera - Raging Tide

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

Oh yeah, LC is dead. That must make Raging Tide look like a ghost town in comparison.

GBA is also probably cheaper on LC than any other server.

Nice logic fail you have there. Stupid much? Oh yeah, it's you we're talking about. How did I forget. b:pleased

Well I don't care what definition of "alive" you're using, cuz if it's number of players it may be true.

But those noobs who just PK and never gear up or farm don't count for me as "keeping server alive".

And actually TW speaks for itself about the aliveness of a server end game. When a faction owns the whole map, it is clear that there are just too few good end game players on that server (and all in that faction). A triple attack by the 3 most powerful factions (except the land holding one) should take at least a land easily. If it doesn't, it actually proves that there are only ~200 people "good" on that server. Meaning also, ~200 people that farm efficiently. Only.


And GBA is cheap cuz of so many high level people that collected it when it was easy. Same about probably other 3-2 and 3-3 greens. While RT being new, people didn't have chance to farm this much end game.

QuickClaw - Lost City

frankieraye wrote: »

We're still gathering data on how the TW changes have impacted gameplay across all servers and specific servers. We'll definitely let you know if any kind of change is in the works.

So any comment on the fact that the Chinese servers have reset the TW changes? how does that factor into your research?

evilramen

QuickClaw - Lost City wrote: »

So any comment on the fact that the Chinese servers have reset the TW changes? how does that factor into your research?

nah, they never answer the question directly, just more "testing" is needed....

never seen a "close" beta game does so many "testing" b:chuckle

Tamias - Archosaur

Well...

Logic follows that any changes made in PWCN affects us here in PWI.
PWCN changes their TW system has changed back into coin. (taking a certain senario)
then it should follow that PWI will change it's system back.

Funny that even in that version their economy didn't change at all. Took them two months to say **** it. Smart people :P

I think it won't change for another month or two-by then it'll be closed beta for FW and by then most people might not even come back to get their lovely TW Pay to burn on things.

b:cry I just want to have the money to afford Lunar runs more comfortably that's all.

Kupuntu - Sanctuary

QuickClaw - Lost City wrote: »

So any comment on the fact that the Chinese servers have reset the TW changes? how does that factor into your research?

Seriously? Is it true and any source for it?

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Asheera - Raging Tide wrote: »

And actually TW speaks for itself about the aliveness of a server end game. When a faction owns the whole map, it is clear that there are just too few good end game players on that server (and all in that faction). A triple attack by the 3 most powerful factions (except the land holding one) should take at least a land easily. If it doesn't, it actually proves that there are only ~200 people "good" on that server. Meaning also, ~200 people that farm efficiently. Only.

Perhaps that describes your server very well. I guess you don't know the logistics of actually having a TW guild. Perhaps things on your server are so sparse you would think that. At least over here it's not about having >200 end game players willing to TW, it's about 100+ end-game players who are able and willing to put up with each other and to stay in a faction together.

On LC there are easily enough end-game players to fill more than 3 TW factions. Probably 5 or more if you consider that many of the smaller guilds have maybe a dozen or two 10x players with the rest much lower... Since the changes, nobody really cares. Instead of 3 or 4 top tier TW factions, there are nearly a half dozen new factions with smaller groups of friends that did compromise a lot of members from the former 4 top guilds on our server.

You can't have competitive TW if people aren't willing to put up with each other. Do I really need to explain that people tend to form smaller circles within a faction and that they don't all get along together all the time, and without the coin incentive that helped many of the free players to participate, the desire to TW by most factions is dead causing larger groups of high level players to disperse to smaller guilds?

I feel like I'm explaining the social scene of a high school from a large metropolitan area to someone from a hick town.

/facepalm

Asheera - Raging Tide

Wow then your server sounds like mostly full of selfish and greedy people who only care for themselves (inner circles) and don't TW even for fun (because no reward)

And are they all cashshoppers or why they don't farm? (making prices so low) Or they just don't give a damn anymore because they have no rewards from TW? Are the rewards really the only thing that keeps some people playing instead of actually having fun? sheesh

Kupuntu - Sanctuary

Asheera - Raging Tide wrote: »

Wow then your server sounds like mostly full of selfish and greedy people who only care for themselves (inner circles) and don't TW even for fun (because no reward)

And are they all cashshoppers or why they don't farm? (making prices so low) Or they just don't give a damn anymore because they have no rewards from TW? Are the rewards really the only thing that keeps some people playing instead of actually having fun? sheesh

It's a PvP server. Do one single thing wrong and soon you are forced to reroll unless you enjoy being laughed at. Example: this one CSer dude who is pretty hated there, an officer of a big TW fac dropped his Lunar wand +10. Now he's renamed to Drop<insert rest of his char name here> for that.

Makes the gameplay much more interesting though, as long as you aren't the one getting laughed at b:laugh.

Also, lower prices mean more farming/bigger supply. Most of the former CSers actually farm on LC, just like on every other server I know something of. On Sanct, before 5 aps certain CSers didn't farm; now they do. There are less players on LC but also, it is a PvP server. On most games I've played, prices are higher on PvP servers even if the numbers of players/ages of the servers are matching.

Alphae - Lost City

Asheera - Raging Tide wrote: »

Wow then your server sounds like mostly full of selfish and greedy people who only care for themselves (inner circles) and don't TW even for fun (because no reward)

And are they all cashshoppers or why they don't farm? (making prices so low) Or they just don't give a damn anymore because they have no rewards from TW? Are the rewards really the only thing that keeps some people playing instead of actually having fun? sheesh

I would TW just for fun. But when you TW just for fun, you're not the only one losing money. You're also asking up to 79 other people to lose the same amount of money, for the benefit of your "fun" (because a 1 man TW isn't very fun for anyone). This is even assuming you foot all the money for the bid, cata scrolls, towers, etc., and it is not footed by a guild/faction or other community.

Would you go up to 79 people in-game and ask them to drop 3-4m coin on that stupid tiger quest or some other equally worthless coin-eating activity so you could have some kind of "fun"? No? Then why do you do that to your guilds?

Sounds like the people who whine and cry about people only wanting to TW for the rewards and claiming proudly that they TW for fun are selfish and greedy people who care only for themselves.

ijs

Fuzzy_Wuzzy - Raging Tide

Alphae - Lost City wrote: »

Sounds like the people who whine and cry about people only wanting to TW for the rewards and claiming proudly that they TW for fun are selfish and greedy people who care only for themselves.

ummm what? The people who didn't/don't TW for the rewards are simply continuing to fight each and every week.

Selfish and greedy? Where do you get that idea?

How can it be selfish? By nature, TW is a team effort and no one is forced to participate. Its hardly selfish to band together with like-minded players and have some fun on the weekends.

How can it be greedy? Factions like Fuzzy's (and me assume many more) use guild money to cover the costs of bidding, building towers, providing cata-scrolls etc. The faction spends millions on a weekly basis. The reason for this is exactly so the participating members don't need to pay with their own coin. Sounds sort of like the opposite of greedy.

Fuzzy just saying.... b:bye

Alphae - Lost City

You clearly missed my point.

Asheera - Raging Tide

Uhm never forced anyone to TW, and if they don't like to anymore they can just leave the guild.

Like it actually happens, Michael said. That's why there's only a few ppl who dominate the map (one faction)

Who says I'm pissed at them for being greedy and only wanting TW for rewards? It's their choice. But then again I am also right when I call them greedy because of it.

How am I greedy hmm?

Alphae - Lost City

No you are not entitled to call them greedy, because most of them are not. Some of them are, but you're assuming all of them are, and we all know what assumptions do.

Think of it this way.

There are a lot of things I'd LIKE to do. I'd like to own an Italian sportscar. I'd like to have a summer mansion on the French Riviera. I'd like to own a yacht.

Right now, I can't get these things by myself. I'd need the support of at least 1, if not many other people. If those people are unable to afford to assist me in obtaining something superfluous (because that's what all those things I named are WANTS, not necessities), how am I being anything but selfish by asking that they do it anyway? How am I being anything but self-centered if I moan and whine that people who say that they don't have money to assist me are being greedy and are only focused on money?

I never said that you, Asheera, were greedy. I said that people demanding that people TW for fun and not money have not really thought about what they are asking of those people, and furthermore don't understand why people are so upset that the monetary reward has been removed. It's like a parent who works two jobs (money) to help a teenager go through expensive sports training for a sport he loves but is, at its core, a sport, something that the child could go without (TW), then taking away both jobs and offering the parent $20 in exchange. The parent then says that I'm so sorry, but we can't afford this anymore, and then the teen (easily old enough to understand this) moaning and whining that the parent is being greedy and self-centered.

Fistus - Harshlands

Alphae, you're assuming that no one else will have any fun by attending TW, only you. This makes no sense. One would think that they would either attend because they enjoy it or not attend because they do not. Most likely, a TW faction is not the correct faction for people in the second category.

TigerLily - Lost City

I think its pretty selfish assuming others in same faction should spend money for charms and pots to do TW without reward - so certain people can have fun.

Maybe people in faction rather use that hp-charm to do Rebirth and finish their culti or use the coins for something else that they feel is more important, fun and rewarding.

Everyone cant afford do TW without a reward, or they can maybe afford with a struggle but will rather prioritize something else. Just bidding is costly for smaller factions to since you risk loosing everything. Assuming these people should just cough up coins, not getting any reward and just participate so others can have their fun and farm kills, is kinda selfish.

KaiserNeko - Archosaur

so TW pay is going to be returning to normal on this server?

i have been hearing rumors that PWI china has reverted back to the original style of TW.
and that they realized the changes did nothing for the economy or competition.

Conavar - Heavens Tear

KaiserNeko - Archosaur wrote: »

so TW pay is going to be returning to normal on this server?

All Depends if PWI are making more money now than before the changes .. If Yes dont expect any changes .. If not expect the changes to be reverted if they have been in PW-CN

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Asheera - Raging Tide wrote: »

Wow then your server sounds like mostly full of selfish and greedy people who only care for themselves (inner circles) and don't TW even for fun (because no reward)

And are they all cashshoppers or why they don't farm? (making prices so low) Or they just don't give a damn anymore because they have no rewards from TW? Are the rewards really the only thing that keeps some people playing instead of actually having fun? sheesh

You don't get it. The reason there was never a 4th top teir TW guild is because they were always an RPK faction without any real leadership or direction. Once they would take 3-5 lands, they would fall apart and disintegrate. There's a whole string of a few groups of people that fit into this category.

Final Oath >Dynasty > LTX > Koi > ThaClick ... or whatever order they were in... they would basically take lands, fall apart due to inner conflict or lack of leadership because the faction learder was the 'popular RPKer' of the moment and would start a new RPK guild when they got focused on the world map by too many people, or too much inner strife would start to occur.

After the TW changes the 3rd top tier guild ended up splitting up into their original guild and two others... two of which own a land each now, but they're not strong enough to take on the remaining top two guilds....

And as for farming? Every time I mention how much I or another person farmed here, we get called out for bragging. So I'll only state I've probably farmed FAR more than you will in this game, and I'm a lazy farmer.

It's so refreshing to have to explain grade school social groups, because that's basically what a family guild with no serious intentions or directions are like. They're little groups of friends with a bunch of randoms and they call themselves 'helpful' guilds... when even most of those people don't get the help that the main inner circles do and are mostly outsiders...

Have you never been in a faction?

/facepalm

sethh

ithink Tw is getting back now TT <.<!!

Asheera - Raging Tide

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

You don't get it. The reason there was never a 4th top teir TW guild is because they were always an RPK faction without any real leadership or direction. Once they would take 3-5 lands, they would fall apart and disintegrate. There's a whole string of a few groups of people that fit into this category.

Final Oath >Dynasty > LTX > Koi > ThaClick ... or whatever order they were in... they would basically take lands, fall apart due to inner conflict or lack of leadership because the faction learder was the 'popular RPKer' of the moment and would start a new RPK guild when they got focused on the world map by too many people, or too much inner strife would start to occur.

After the TW changes the 3rd top tier guild ended up splitting up into their original guild and two others... two of which own a land each now, but they're not strong enough to take on the remaining top two guilds....

And as for farming? Every time I mention how much I or another person farmed here, we get called out for bragging. So I'll only state I've probably farmed FAR more than you will in this game, and I'm a lazy farmer.

It's so refreshing to have to explain grade school social groups, because that's basically what a family guild with no serious intentions or directions are like. They're little groups of friends with a bunch of randoms and they call themselves 'helpful' guilds... when even most of those people don't get the help that the main inner circles do and are mostly outsiders...

Have you never been in a faction?

/facepalm

No I wasn't in any serious faction that's why I am now in the largest land holding faction on server and I joined it at 73 when it had few lands b:chuckle

As for the faction falling apart thingies... omg that sounds like those "noobs" who started on RT for "early PK" with huge ego's and oracled and stuff to increase their e-peen but they quit shortly after when others were catching up and more serious factions were forming.

Guilds focused only on PK and boasting on world chat will always fall and I never considered those serious guilds tbh. And maybe that's the reason prices are so high, because not so many people farm on PvP servers due to them just wanting to PK and have a big mouth on world chat?


And about farming I didn't say you aren't one to farm, I said you're one of few on the server who farm that much, which makes it easier for you to get money due to low competition /facepalm

Alphae - Lost City

Fistus - Harshlands wrote: »

Alphae, you're assuming that no one else will have any fun by attending TW, only you. This makes no sense. One would think that they would either attend because they enjoy it or not attend because they do not. Most likely, a TW faction is not the correct faction for people in the second category.

And the parent greatly enjoys watching his child excel at the sport he's spent lots of money on to train, and the child enjoys winning. But without the money to travel, pay club fees, buy equipment, and hire trainers, that kid can't continue on the way he was. He finds alternative means of enjoyment in the same vein, or he abandons that vein all together.

TigerLily said it already, but I'll say it again. Just because you want to do something that costs money doesn't mean you should, or their aren't better ways to spend your money.

Asheera - Raging Tide wrote: »

Guilds focused only on PK and boasting on world chat will always fall and I never considered those serious guilds tbh. And maybe that's the reason prices are so high, because not so many people farm on PvP servers due to them just wanting to PK and have a big mouth on world chat?


And about farming I didn't say you aren't one to farm, I said you're one of few on the server who farm that much, which makes it easier for you to get money due to low competition /facepalm

Actually, no one here end-game was stupid enough not to learn from Conqueror. Farming and PvE is how they took over the map, and people know that THAT is the way to win, not by spending all your time PKing at the expense of your levels, gear, and cash.

In my guild, I'd say maybe 10-20% of the people cash shop at any appreciable rate ($15-$50/month = not appreciable in my opinion). The rest, OMG, farm. Merchant, farm, grind, run instances, you know. PvE stuff.

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Asheera - Raging Tide wrote: »

No I wasn't in any serious faction that's why I am now in the largest land holding faction on server and I joined it at 73 when it had few lands b:chuckle

As for the faction falling apart thingies... omg that sounds like those "noobs" who started on RT for "early PK" with huge ego's and oracled and stuff to increase their e-peen but they quit shortly after when others were catching up and more serious factions were forming.

Guilds focused only on PK and boasting on world chat will always fall and I never considered those serious guilds tbh. And maybe that's the reason prices are so high, because not so many people farm on PvP servers due to them just wanting to PK and have a big mouth on world chat?


And about farming I didn't say you aren't one to farm, I said you're one of few on the server who farm that much, which makes it easier for you to get money due to low competition /facepalm

The people in the mostly failed PK/TW factions generally fit into 'those that don't get along well' category, or just had too many negative issues, and a combination of not being able to sit still long enough or be somewhere to share and achieve a common goal. Now it doesn't matter.

To be a large, dominant TW faction you have to PvE like crazy. Maybe 10% of the faction can regularly cash shop... all the rest need to farm to keep up. Until TW changed, most people didn't have a problem with this... some people still don't, but without TW being as brutal as it used to be, there's no point farming e-peen status gear unless you just have to satisfy some other character deficiency. Before, it wasn't about e-peen, it was about bettering your faction so you could do better in tw.

Born_Free - Harshlands

You know...it's been almost a month now...You can stop causing those "big factions" you wanted to stop from taking the map now....your brilliant plan has backfired, taking many of your people who spent money IRL for TW with it...and all the factions who wanted to TW are now deviating course...

Harshlands map is comprised of 70% Orange (Zulu, BIG FACTION!) 20% Yellow (Kylin, a FORMER big faction before you "fixed" TW.) and 10% Green. (Crimson, who is lucky to have land at all, let alone keep it. Unfortunately for them, it won't be for long.)

Dreamweaver map is comprised of three colors as well if I'm not mistaken. 90% UGLY BLOTCH OF RED (Calamity, one of your biggest chunks of paycheck if I'm not mistaken.) 5% Purple (Equinox, god save them) and 5% other random splotch of cyan blue...or maybe it was green.

Your excuse that this 'fix' was to make TW's more fair has absoultely NOT held any water at all. There's little to no justification to it. The only thing you've done is given the stronger factions a bigger chance to take the map, pissed off a majority of people who spent money for charms etc on TW, and driven away all of the newer players who looked forward to TWing with their factions.

A foolish and stupid mistake.

evilramen

meh, no point in asking for answer. the title said "Early" response, so they won't respond this late now lol

LilithPaige - Dreamweaver

I am on the dreamwever server, where the map has all land minus 2 peices controlled by one faction, each week we had loads of TWs and everyone wanted a peice of the action, now there are 5 or so TWs a week and no one seems to be bothered. The faction I am in has very high lvl players, we have our first few 102s and we are looking good for the future, for the first time ever, last week we won land! we were very very excited HOWEVER 150 mirages will do very very little to help our faction where-as the 10 million we would have won in the old rules, wouldve given us a chance to improve the faction.
Maybe to help stop instances of one faction ruling a map you could look at other methods, such as once every 6 months or 3 months, all of the lands are reset, but still allow money as a prize. this would mean that once every 3 to 6 almost all the higher lvl and some lower level factions, have a totally new chance to fight for land and lots who wouldnt usually get it, can get land a nice chunk of cash to help the faction it would also mean that every 3-6 months all of the factions have a surge in TWs and therefore a big chunk of charm buying = more money for you guys!

Kupuntu - Sanctuary

Conavar - Heavens Tear wrote: »

All Depends if PWI are making more money now than before the changes .. If Yes dont expect any changes .. If not expect the changes to be reverted if they have been in PW-CN

See this:

QuickClaw - Lost City wrote: »

So any comment on the fact that the Chinese servers have reset the TW changes? how does that factor into your research?

I want a confimation first though.

Bodjack - Lost City

Nastassiya - Sanctuary wrote: »

Hope you really are protecting the economy from farmers

hygyu

NightRage - Raging Tide

I don't see why PWE is so stupid. Back when there was a rumor floating around about these changes, everyone who heard of them detested it.

You would be a lot better off if you just listened to your player base. If you'd take our complaints seriously and stop ignoring 100+ page threads, this game might not be dead. But you just **** on us time and time again.

You suck at customer service. You suck at updating the game. You suck at community relations. You suck at keeping a playerbase.

You've ruined the game I used to love and spent money on. You've made all of my friends quit the game and me as well.

You suck so hard you don't even realize you suck. The worst part of a problem is not admitting you have a problem. There never used to be the need for stickies on everything you've broken about the game. There never used to be all of this dissent. Why do you think that is?

Wake. The. ****. Up.

Renza - Raging Tide

NightRage - Raging Tide wrote: »

Wake. The. ****. Up.[/SIZE]

bit late for that, the game is so insanely screwed that i dont think even old players would come back to the game with PWE's hands to trust.