An Early GM Response to the TW Changes

Over_Kill - Lost City

Yes tw changes has caused a lot to quit and most to QQ. There is nothing discussing on these forums is gonna do. If you really want your voice to be heard, give the developers your piece of mind. The GMs are proving to be slow in communicating our feelings and thus are obsolete.

Well on the note of tw maps being taken by one faction. Let me point out this was happening before tw changes, lost city for example by CQ. If you do not like your map to be taken by one faction then organize your self and work together to triple attack them rather then QQing and letting them take you down one at a time. I know its easier said then doneb:shutup.

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Knownase - Heavens Tear wrote: »

As much as I hate the idea of a map reset, having that might actually make TW a bit more interesting. More factions will definitely get involved.

Our map was reset at the end of last year. There was still competition, until the recent TW changes. Resetting the map won't help. Nobody really cares anymore.

Didn't the CN servers get a map reset, but the land owning factions were compensated with a lot of money?

*sigh* Some CN servers merged. Those servers that merged had their maps reset.

Crones - Heavens Tear

frankieraye wrote: »

The reason is this: The patch just came out, and some time really has to pass before any of us truly knows the effects of it.

I'm reading all of your concerns and I've thrown in some of my own opinions about the patch. Kantorek has done the same. I read you loud and clear; the TW pay has been decreased and you're worried about not being able to afford charms anymore. You feel like we're ruining a beautiful part of the game. I understand that; this is a pretty big change to the system, so it's normal that you're worried about it.

I love TW. It and the Gold Trade system are my two favorite parts about PWI; TW brings factions together for a hardcore, team-oriented endgame event. The Gold Trade system makes it so that no player is excluded from the Cash Shop, as long as they're willing to put time and effort into the game. These two systems are what differentiate PWI from every other F2P out there.

Let me just assure you that we do NOT want to ruin the TW system. From what I understand, these changes were implemented to combat problems that have plagued longer-running versions of PW -- those in Malaysia and China. I have to say that I do like the idea of taking what we know about those versions and using it to try to protect this version.

What I'm asking is that we give this system some time before condemning it for good. There has been a lot of speculation, and the majority of you are very much against it, and that's been noted, believe me.

But for now, this is the game, and these are the changes that have been made to it. We will be closely monitoring what happens with TW over this next month, and Konari, Aryanna, and myself will be on these boards to hear you out during the process.

---

Update:

The changes should make TW far more competitive.

The old way, once a faction holds half the map, they are making 300M coin per week, which leads to:

#1 - Poaching elite players from smaller factions who want to get in on the Coins.

#2 - Being able to either pay for charms or fake bids, both of which give them a huge advantage over a non-TW faction.

So the huge faction continues winning its battles (whether they are legit battles or fake battles), and it wins 90% of every winning bid. Legit wins give them a new source of income, and fake bid wins only cost them 10% of the bid that they themselves made (keep in mind that you don't need charms for a fake battle).

Eventually, the dominant faction has enough coins to outbid everyone for 200M coins each through fake bids. They then get back 90% of each of these 200M coin bids. The map ultimately is entirely theirs.

This is why, with the former system, PW in Malaysia and China ultimately ended up with the territory war map completely taken over and nothing anyone could do about it.


With the new rules in place, huge factions will no longer be getting enough coins from the TW system to be able to afford Charms and fake bids every week. You will no longer have to depend on a faction disbanding out of the kindness of its heart to have a diverse TW map.

Update 2

A lot of things caused inflation, including grinding, questing, DQ item vendoring, decomposing gear into Mirage Celestones and vendoring them, 10M big notes, and weekly TW income payouts. TW income is not the only culprit, but it does add about 2.4 billion coins to the economy every month, which is substantial.

We do not insist that TW income is the sole cause of inflation, but we do believe that the TW change should at least help somewhat. That point was originally brought up because, after the change was announced, these forums erupted into a supernova, and Kanto was hoping to bring up a good point that had not brought up yet. Of course, this observation was then blown way out of proportion, to the point where it seemed like TW income was taking the full blame for inflation, and this change was going to fix everything in one fell swoop.

This is not the case. It may help, but I don't expect it to single-handedly curb inflation, and I don't expect you all to believe that either.

The TW changes were made primarily to make TW more competitive, ideally to keep us from spiraling down the same path as PW-MY and PW-CN, where entire TW maps had been owned by one unstoppable force.

A reduction in inflation would merely be a welcome side effect of these changes.

Thank you all for your patience and for the good discussion here in this thread.

this is my idea in here i know tw is now mirages which is not that bad. coins was good but if your not in a terriotory with land it dont matter. i think you need to change the way to get the rank 9 medla, make reputation easier to get, and the most important thing is set gold prices to a certain amount so ppl can afford things again. this would fix the issues of everything gold/money related.

Darksylph - Heavens Tear

Crones - Heavens Tear wrote: »

this is my idea in here i know tw is now mirages which is not that bad. coins was good but if your not in a terriotory with land it dont matter. i think you need to change the way to get the rank 9 medla, make reputation easier to get, and the most important thing is set gold prices to a certain amount so ppl can afford things again. this would fix the issues of everything gold/money related.

Idiots need to stop thinking they can set a static gold price. They cant do it. If sellers want more money but the AH simply wont allow it, they'll simply go to selling cash shop items over world chat. What makes this even worse is a "vender" system such as this for cash shop items will cause the price to increase even more dramatically without a pricing comparison index to view the competition for the sellers. Items sold without easy to view competition always increases the prices. Gold will become a public black market rather then the auction house system ever being used.

Now lets say, even if they were to make it impossible to trade cash shop items altogether, and the ONLY way to get them (if you dont charge zen) was via the auction house buy/trade/sell of gold, then a static price would still be disastrous. Remember the higher the price, the more people are motivated to sell zen gold. Simply put, the amount of gold available would decrease dramatically, while the demand on it would increase dramatically. The result? There would NEVER be any gold available for sale. People would camp the gold trader & the instant any was posted it would be gone. You still wouldnt get what you wanted.

Gold price can only be changed through careful manipulation of supply & demand. The problem with this is any decrease in demand, means less people charging zen due to less people having a need to buy cash shop items. This leaves only increasing the supply, but the only way to encourage a greater supply is to make zen cheaper to obtain, thus also decreasing PWEs profits. In the end, its not that PWE cant do anything, but rather there's nothing PWE would ever WANT to consider doing from a business standpoint.

Oh and if you guggest increasing the supply by PWE simply adding a bunch of gold into the auction system on their own i'm going to slap you. Thats akin to giving away money, again not something they'd ever do.

ahhao

Darksylph - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Idiots need to stop thinking they can set a static gold price. They cant do it. If sellers want more money but the AH simply wont allow it, they'll simply go to selling cash shop items over world chat. What makes this even worse is a "vender" system such as this for cash shop items will cause the price to increase even more dramatically without a pricing comparison index to view the competition for the sellers. Items sold without easy to view competition always increases the prices. Gold will become a public black market rather then the auction house system ever being used.

Now lets say, even if they were to make it impossible to trade cash shop items altogether, and the ONLY way to get them (if you dont charge zen) was via the auction house buy/trade/sell of gold, then a static price would still be disastrous. Remember the higher the price, the more people are motivated to sell zen gold. Simply put, the amount of gold available would decrease dramatically, while the demand on it would increase dramatically. The result? There would NEVER be any gold available for sale. People would camp the gold trader & the instant any was posted it would be gone. You still wouldnt get what you wanted.

Gold price can only be changed through careful manipulation of supply & demand. The problem with this is any decrease in demand, means less people charging zen due to less people having a need to buy cash shop items. This leaves only increasing the supply, but the only way to encourage a greater supply is to make zen cheaper to obtain, thus also decreasing PWEs profits. In the end, its not that PWE cant do anything, but rather there's nothing PWE would ever WANT to consider doing from a business standpoint.

Oh and if you guggest increasing the supply by PWE simply adding a bunch of gold into the auction system on their own i'm going to slap you. Thats akin to giving away money, again not something they'd ever do.

Pretty much the situation going on here.
PWE will never compromise their profit margins just for the sake of making some players happy/happier.
To all those whining, quit the game; make your opinions heard, not rant about it and then quietly come crawling back into this addiction b:chuckle

firex007

Well in 2 weeks from now , calamity will own the whole Dreamweaver map. why ? well firstly with no TT to make money for charms and get gear u cant do anything , 2nd , the stupid mirages as a reward cant even pay for a charm or anything good actually. People got no money to even TRY to tw against cala just because theres no way to make money in pw now that they changed the TT and took the nien event away.... Unless u spen real life cash ofc and theres where i draw the line. This patch of tw changes messed everything up than trying to fix it.

Conavar - Heavens Tear

firex007 wrote: »

well firstly with no TT to make money for charms and get gear u cant do anything

because theres no way to make money in pw now that they changed the TT

Still pretty easy to make money in TT ( which doesnt include doing 3-x changed bosses )

People just got so used to the huge profit runs before the changes, now that the profit is a little less for most people its " OMG it's IMPOSSIBLE to make money in TT " which is completly false.

Ie: Farm Deathflow for the arm mat. A run just to her takes what 10-30mins ? (depending on classes ) or do some of the 2-x.

All because you are not getting 10-20mil per run doesnt mean there isnt a profit to be made.

Eoria - Harshlands

Conavar - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Still pretty easy to make money in TT ( which doesnt include doing 3-x changed bosses )

People just got so used to the huge profit runs before the changes, now that the profit is a little less for most people its " OMG it's IMPOSSIBLE to make money in TT " which is completly false.

Ie: Farm Deathflow for the arm mat. A run just to her takes what 10-30mins ? (depending on classes ) or do some of the 2-x.

All because you are not getting 10-20mil per run doesnt mean there isnt a profit to be made.

But...but...MY MONEYS!!! IT'S GONE~~~ b:cry

[/sarcasm]

Zoe - Heavens Tear

One thing they can do to fix the gold price is keep it at 100k coins per gold, on their end. The more players charge for gold in the game, the more the zen costs. If players charge 400k for 1 gold in the game, it costs them $4 per gold to buy zen for this game. The ingame price would have to quickly dropb:chuckle

firex007

ok yeah sure money can be made from TT 2- X, ( 250-300k per run on my server ) and making 1 piece of armour for TT 99 will take 50 runs for a cheap part and take something like the chest piece thats 50 mil , thats 160 TT 2-x runs for it WITHOUT refines + shards. lol. now take the average person does 2 runs per day, thats anythign from 30days- 80 days per piece( not ading it took 1 and a half years to get to lvl 100 with no hypers ofc ) . Theres no way people will work 6-8 months of saving to get their 99 gear. b:surrender

sethh

When we gonna get the updates missing?

Michael_Dark - Lost City

firex007 wrote: »

ok yeah sure money can be made from TT 2- X, ( 250-300k per run on my server ) and making 1 piece of armour for TT 99 will take 50 runs for a cheap part and take something like the chest piece thats 50 mil , thats 160 TT 2-x runs for it WITHOUT refines + shards. lol. now take the average person does 2 runs per day, thats anythign from 30days- 80 days per piece( not ading it took 1 and a half years to get to lvl 100 with no hypers ofc ) . Theres no way people will work 6-8 months of saving to get their 99 gear. b:surrender

Drop rate for Touch of Seven in 2-2 is pretty generous. That's 5m easy. You can't count on it, but it's not a rare drop by any means. You also get Feng's bars and Dust of Stars. Both sell well. 2-3 you get Arms and Antennas as well as a chance at ADS. Belial isn't too hard to do these days.

1-3 is also a pretty good profit run. War Drum, Serpent's Blood, Tough Shards and Mirrors sell well. If you get a Serpent's Orb you're doing alright too.

In either of these runs a sqaud of 2-4 should be able to make 500k-2m per run on average... much less on a bad run, and 2-2 and 2-3 are really good if gold drops.

I agree though, farming them so you can afford 99 mats is pretty stupid. Oh well, that's the way they wanted to change it.

NightRage - Raging Tide

Late GM response to TW changes pls.

Boogiepanda - Raging Tide

NightRage - Raging Tide wrote: »

Late GM response to TW changes pls.

I asked that, Frankie's reply wasn't very..um... specific.

sethh

Say it, out loud O.O!!

Kupuntu - Sanctuary

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

Drop rate for Touch of Seven in 2-2 is pretty generous. That's 5m easy. You can't count on it, but it's not a rare drop by any means. You also get Feng's bars and Dust of Stars. Both sell well. 2-3 you get Arms and Antennas as well as a chance at ADS. Belial isn't too hard to do these days.

1-3 is also a pretty good profit run. War Drum, Serpent's Blood, Tough Shards and Mirrors sell well. If you get a Serpent's Orb you're doing alright too.

In either of these runs a sqaud of 2-4 should be able to make 500k-2m per run on average... much less on a bad run, and 2-2 and 2-3 are really good if gold drops.

I agree though, farming them so you can afford 99 mats is pretty stupid. Oh well, that's the way they wanted to change it.

War Drums are 200k, Mirrors 200k tops, Iron Bars 100k+, Tough Shards 100k max, Serpent bloods 80k, Antennas 400k, Arms 300k, Dusts 350k. How much those are on LC?

Also, my attempt at farming 2-3 with 90 barb and 83 cleric failed at the second boss.

Longknife - Harshlands

QuickClaw - Lost City wrote: »

in case you hav'nt already heard they reset the CN server back to the way it was (i.e. money not mirages from tw) after the 2 month trial they found that it had no affect on the ecconomy.

so my question is when are we getting the changes reversed on our servers and frankie an comment on this failed trial?

QC.

Though honestly, the bigger question is...

Why the hell are people complaining then? Just NPC all the mirages and you get your money's worth.

I swear to god they could say "from now on the reward for winning a defense TW at 1k streams will be 1 billion sadness cards" and people would be like "OMG THE DEV'S ARE EFFING RET@RDED WHAT THE HELL AM I SUPPOSED TO DO WITH SADNESS CARDS???"

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Kupuntu - Sanctuary wrote: »

War Drums are 200k, Mirrors 200k tops, Iron Bars 100k+, Tough Shards 100k max, Serpent bloods 80k, Antennas 400k, Arms 300k, Dusts 350k. How much those are on LC?

Also, my attempt at farming 2-3 with 90 barb and 83 cleric failed at the second boss.

Yeah, I didn't think of Sanctuary prices. All the lower HHs are overfarmed there.

Touch of Seven for under 2 mil. b:shocked

Darksylph - Heavens Tear

Longknife - Harshlands wrote: »

Though honestly, the bigger question is...

Why the hell are people complaining then? Just NPC all the mirages and you get your money's worth.

I swear to god they could say "from now on the reward for winning a defense TW at 1k streams will be 1 billion sadness cards" and people would be like "OMG THE DEV'S ARE EFFING RET@RDED WHAT THE HELL AM I SUPPOSED TO DO WITH SADNESS CARDS???"

Did you fail math class?

150 mirages = 1.5 million coins NPCed.

We used to get 10 million per tier 3 land.

How does 1.5 million = getting our 10 million in moneys worth?

Alphae - Lost City

Longknife - Harshlands wrote: »

Though honestly, the bigger question is...

Why the hell are people complaining then? Just NPC all the mirages and you get your money's worth.

I swear to god they could say "from now on the reward for winning a defense TW at 1k streams will be 1 billion sadness cards" and people would be like "OMG THE DEV'S ARE EFFING RET@RDED WHAT THE HELL AM I SUPPOSED TO DO WITH SADNESS CARDS???"

1. Do you REALLY want to NPC 1 billion sadness cards?
2. Post above me.

Aubree - Dreamweaver

Alphae - Lost City wrote: »

1. Do you REALLY want to NPC 1 billion sadness cards?
2. Post above me.

They stack, why not?

Adroit - Lost City

Aubree - Dreamweaver wrote: »

They stack, why not?

1 billion would be alot of stacks b:shocked

sethh

And The Gm update? i asked this like 50 times <.<

WraithTanker - Sanctuary

sethh wrote: »

And The Gm update? i asked this like 50 times <.<

GMs are to busy drinking coffee and giving each other high fives as they watch people buy packs after packs. so, dont get ur hopes up. Just like the DQ fix. they are waiting for people to stop thinking about it, and then not give us something back. A monkey could come up with at least 1 idea in the past 4 months.(DQ fix)


I want spoons back

Asheera - Raging Tide

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

Yeah, I didn't think of Sanctuary prices. All the lower HHs are overfarmed there.

Touch of Seven for under 2 mil. b:shocked

This actually shows your server is dead, or full of cashshoppers.

Which is why you LC top players always find it so easy to farm for coins and tell others it's easy too, because you got no competition.

It all makes sense now. It's just your server not having many farmers either for being dead or full of cash shoppers who just buy their stuff

Kupuntu - Sanctuary

Asheera - Raging Tide wrote: »

This actually shows your server is dead, or full of cashshoppers.

Which is why you LC top players always find it so easy to farm for coins and tell others it's easy too, because you got no competition.

It all makes sense now. It's just your server not having many farmers either for being dead or full of cash shoppers who just buy their stuff

You got that right.

Anyway, Sanct has one of the lowest prices of all servers. The prices aren't that different so people from other servers couldn't make money by farming TTs though.

Also, why rage about it? Other servers have cheaper prices in everything else compared to LC (with the exception of NPC prices and to some extent, gold prices).

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Asheera - Raging Tide wrote: »

This actually shows your server is dead, or full of cashshoppers.

Which is why you LC top players always find it so easy to farm for coins and tell others it's easy too, because you got no competition.

It all makes sense now. It's just your server not having many farmers either for being dead or full of cash shoppers who just buy their stuff

Oh yeah, LC is dead. That must make Raging Tide look like a ghost town in comparison.

GBA is also probably cheaper on LC than any other server.

Nice logic fail you have there. Stupid much? Oh yeah, it's you we're talking about. How did I forget. b:pleased

frankieraye

We're still gathering data on how the TW changes have impacted gameplay across all servers and specific servers. We'll definitely let you know if any kind of change is in the works.

Okopogo - Harshlands

Is the game dead yet?

NightRage - Raging Tide

Okopogo - Harshlands wrote: »

Is the game dead yet?

Yes .