An Early GM Response to the TW Changes

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  • Zoe - Heavens Tear
    Zoe - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,814 Arc User
    edited August 2010
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    Squirrel - Harshlands wrote: »
    guys you talking for chance to small faction to take lands ?

    i want to ask you something : What you will do with that land when you get it ? 150 mirages ? 150 mirages = 1.7 mil and what you doing with that money ? pay to faction members ? distribute mirages betwin members ? or what ? may be you going to pay cata barbs charms with 150 mirages for next TW ? answer me pls

    Everyone can do what some of us already do, grind for our coins.b:bye
    Main characters
    Celestial Sage Venomancer Zoe - 100
    Sage Barbarian Malego - 91
  • RedsRose - Lost City
    RedsRose - Lost City Posts: 12,354 Arc User
    edited August 2010
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    I think the main issue was that there was no "Preview"/"warning" that the changes were in fact coming at this time.

    It was known that these changes were coming but throwing them on all of the server's without ppl being able to digest them is what has cause this chaos.

    And literally, the servers are in chaos...
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    RoidAbuse is awesome, only he would sell his sperm for gear!!

    "Toughest monster? ..... RedsRose b:surrender" - Kantorek
    Where is my 1 v 1 Kan? b:mischievous
  • Zoe - Heavens Tear
    Zoe - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,814 Arc User
    edited August 2010
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    I see BHs running like normal, frosts going on, west arch is still full of catshops. Things look normal to me.
    Main characters
    Celestial Sage Venomancer Zoe - 100
    Sage Barbarian Malego - 91
  • Starr - Harshlands
    Starr - Harshlands Posts: 331 Arc User
    edited August 2010
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    Zoe - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Everyone can do what some of us already do, grind for our coins.b:bye

    oh yes grind for coin with the decreased dq prices. good ideab:victory
    the good Starr
  • RedsRose - Lost City
    RedsRose - Lost City Posts: 12,354 Arc User
    edited August 2010
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    Zoe - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    I see BHs running like normal, frosts going on, west arch is still full of catshops. Things look normal to me.

    Should have seen LC last night...-.-
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    RoidAbuse is awesome, only he would sell his sperm for gear!!

    "Toughest monster? ..... RedsRose b:surrender" - Kantorek
    Where is my 1 v 1 Kan? b:mischievous
  • Zoe - Heavens Tear
    Zoe - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,814 Arc User
    edited August 2010
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    Starr - Harshlands wrote: »
    oh yes grind for coin with the decreased dq prices. good ideab:victory

    I do grind for coins even now. The price drop has not effected me in the least. I'm actually making MORE coins than I did before the price drop. Greedy, greedy players will never learn.b:bye
    Main characters
    Celestial Sage Venomancer Zoe - 100
    Sage Barbarian Malego - 91
  • Nuff_Said - Raging Tide
    Nuff_Said - Raging Tide Posts: 222 Arc User
    edited August 2010
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    Zoe - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    I see BHs running like normal, frosts going on, west arch is still full of catshops. Things look normal to me.

    Yes, they will be normal for a little while but once the old coin dries up then players will be singing a different tune. You said to grind for coin? Possibly meant farm for coin, I'm not totally sure. Either way DQ price drop makes u farm 20% more for the same return as before. Farming for coin isn't gonna work either. What do you think funded all the TT mat sales, herb sales, mold sales etc? The nublets who spent TW pay on gear instead of farming lol. Gold and the price of other in-game stuff hasn't dropped but PWE has taken a bit more than 1/2 billion coins out of the game (per week per server).

    As I said before, not sure how quick TWs are over on other servers but on RT there aren't many rolls each weak. Levi vs QQme= 6 hours of TW each week when its 1v1. Cant sustain the towers, scrolls, pots, bids, and charms with the current TW changes.

    GG PWE, can't wait to see next weeks tws lmao
    "I'm the best ever. I'm the most brutal and vicious, and most ruthless champion there's ever been. There's no one can stop me. Lennox is a conqueror? No, I'm Alexander, he's no Alexander. I'm the best ever! There's never been anybody as ruthless! I'm Sonny Liston, I'm Jack Dempsey. There's no one like me. I'm from their cloth. There's no one that can match me. My style is impetuous, my defense is impregnable, and I'm just ferocious. I want your heart! I want to eat his children!" ~ Mike Tyson
  • Ambition - Raging Tide
    Ambition - Raging Tide Posts: 1,152 Arc User
    edited August 2010
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    Nuff_Said - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Yes, they will be normal for a little while but once the old coin dries up then players will be singing a different tune. You said to grind for coin? Possibly meant farm for coin, I'm not totally sure. Either way DQ price drop makes u farm 20% more for the same return as before. Farming for coin isn't gonna work either. What do you think funded all the TT mat sales, herb sales, mold sales etc? The nublets who spent TW pay on gear instead of farming lol. Gold and the price of other in-game stuff hasn't dropped but PWE has taken a bit more than 1/2 billion coins out of the game (per week per server).

    As I said before, not sure how quick TWs are over on other servers but on RT there aren't many rolls each weak. Levi vs QQme= 6 hours of TW each week when its 1v1. Cant sustain the towers, scrolls, pots, bids, and charms with the current TW changes.

    GG PWE, can't wait to see next weeks tws lmao

    I'm going charmless b:chuckle
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Nuff_Said - Raging Tide
    Nuff_Said - Raging Tide Posts: 222 Arc User
    edited August 2010
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    Ambition - Raging Tide wrote: »
    I'm going charmless b:chuckle


    90% of my faction is as well. So much for the QQme vs Levi rivalry. Was fun while it lasted, well at least the trolling was.


    And they would give the biggest CS group the medal (poseidon) b:laugh
    "I'm the best ever. I'm the most brutal and vicious, and most ruthless champion there's ever been. There's no one can stop me. Lennox is a conqueror? No, I'm Alexander, he's no Alexander. I'm the best ever! There's never been anybody as ruthless! I'm Sonny Liston, I'm Jack Dempsey. There's no one like me. I'm from their cloth. There's no one that can match me. My style is impetuous, my defense is impregnable, and I'm just ferocious. I want your heart! I want to eat his children!" ~ Mike Tyson
  • Starr - Harshlands
    Starr - Harshlands Posts: 331 Arc User
    edited August 2010
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    Zoe - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    I do grind for coins even now. The price drop has not effected me in the least. I'm actually making MORE coins than I did before the price drop. Greedy, greedy players will never learn.b:bye

    i have 2 lvl 101 chars a 100 and a 99 that i have lvled mostly via grinding. so i know a tiny bit about npc ing dq for coin. the decrease HAS made a significant impact on the amount of money a person can earn by grinding. if you are actually making more than before then you are hacking. the drop rate did not increase and the price decreased. so claiming that you actually are making more is simple an assinine comment.

    and on HL i have herc, nix, 150mil+ coin, and all the fashion that i could ever want all without cash shopping a penny. so step off with the greedy comment b:chuckle
    the good Starr
  • Zoe - Heavens Tear
    Zoe - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,814 Arc User
    edited August 2010
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    No need to **** if you know how to grind properly (seems a lot do not) and where to grind at.
    Main characters
    Celestial Sage Venomancer Zoe - 100
    Sage Barbarian Malego - 91
  • Rawrgh - Raging Tide
    Rawrgh - Raging Tide Posts: 6,790 Arc User
    edited August 2010
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    Nuff_Said - Raging Tide wrote: »
    90% of my faction is as well. So much for the QQme vs Levi rivalry. Was fun while it lasted, well at least the trolling was.


    And they would give the biggest CS group the medal (poseidon) b:laugh
    Normal: No charm TW Nuff, it's on.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "My understanding of women only goes as far as the pleasure. When it comes to the pain, I'm like any other bloke - I don't want to know."
  • Trawne - Lost City
    Trawne - Lost City Posts: 966 Arc User
    edited August 2010
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    meh. i dont tw for the pay. it covers a charm...and thats it.

    in alignment with the whole badge for rank9 thing ( this is really gonna be 500k rep? b:shocked)

    instead of mirages they should give wraith officer tags, or the 5 rep version if the officer one is too much, would at least be better than mirage stones.... then tw becomes a way to rank up.
    I hope that I shall always possess firmness and virtue enough to maintain what I consider the most enviable of title, the character of an honest man. -George Washington
  • ropihl
    ropihl Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2010
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    If the reason for taking the gold out of the equation in TWs and lower prices, then why not do just that, lower the amount you receive from them? Reduce the 10 million ect to some other amount. But taking it out completely? That seems like a rather big step forward. I love TWs for the fun and will continue to do them, but only getting 1 or 2 Celestones from it? Not very economical.
  • Vivianna - Heavens Tear
    Vivianna - Heavens Tear Posts: 7 Arc User
    edited August 2010
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    There is one
    constant complaint that the economy is becoming inflated with coins. So much in
    fact that you can't purchase 1 Gold without paying 400-500K worth of coins. A
    big reason for this is that large powerful guilds have been sitting on their
    property and collecting a fat paycheck every week without doing anything.
    Versions of this argument have been meantioned a couple times by Mods/GMs here, but it is false.

    For a long time the maps on all the early servers were completely owned by Guilds (note the amount of coin put into the game is the same whether one Guild or several control the map). There was some inflation, but not *that* much.

    TW income isn't what caused the big spikes in inflation - or gold the RT Server, for example, would be about the price today as it was on the first Servers a year ago.

    That price was significantly less than 200K coins. For a long time on those early Servers, gold was at 100-120/125K. It spiked as high as 200-250K one time, and that was during the glitch (which was rolled back and IIRC some people punished for exploiting it overmuch).

    Gold inflation has come from PACKS, not TW money. Gold inflation is primarily a result of Anni/Tiger/&tc Packs. But those earn PW money from selling them. Coins from TW pay &tc is how people can make money without buying Packs/Gold.

    Likewise with the other "fix" - reducing the amount of money you can get from DQ items or the number of M-Stones you can get from Decomping 3-stars. Yes, this hurts gold farmers, but it also hits the average player who doesn't buy Gold or Tiger Packs. It hits the amount of money you can earn just playing the game.

    The same with TW Guilds. Asserting that these Guilds get money "without doing anything" is false. They get money from playing the game rather than from gambling on Anni/Tiger Packs and getting Tokens of Best Luck. The game's economy is becoming Three-Card Monte or Roulette. That is what the game is tending towards rewarding, while relatively punishing actually, I dk, playing the game.

    Nerfing of the relative value of actual questing played a role in this, too. People do dailies and gamble on packs. After about L.30, most normal quests are ignored. Want to fix part of the game? Give people as much EXP& Spirit from doing a normal quest of the appropriate level as they'd get from doing a Bh of that level. This fix is ignored though, and so, unfortunately, is most of the game map. I go through vast areas where you used to see lots of people questing, and it's a barren wasteland with the occasional wanderer. This is sad.

    As for TW income, it's a form of "earned income," not something you get for "doing nothing," where Token of Best Luck is "unearned income" from gambling. I've done both, I don't begrudge people their cambling monies (though I do discourage people from gambling. Gambling is bad, m'kay?) but to say the money you get from playing the game is somehow undeserved, recieved for "doing nothing," while what you get from buying Gold and opening packs is just glorious when it is what has caused the inflation is FACTUALLY WRONG. b:surrenderb:shutup
  • Kephras - Heavens Tear
    Kephras - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,472 Arc User
    edited August 2010
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    Kaldeen - Sanctuary wrote: »
    That's not going to stop inflation, that will make Best Luck tokens MORE than 5m. That should stay where it is to stop Best Luck Tokens from rising in price. As it is, the Best Luck Tokens are the only way to get the items for the level 95 event helm and boots.

    They don't contribute to the inflation, they hold a line that should not be removed.

    You completely misunderstand my post.
    Why do Best Luck Tokens have a sale value of 5 mil?
    Because two of them = 10 mil bank note.
    Which then becomes 10 million coins injected into the game out of two NPC'able items with a value of... 10k is it? Or 1k?

    You're trying to say that a token is worth 5 million, but it's ONLY got that value based on the 10m note you can make from it. If you remove the Note option, there's no telling what the value would be. Sure, players might consider it worth more (event gears), or maybe worth less (chrono page?). But the token by itself has many uses - I'm proposing to remove the one option that floods PWI with coin.
  • Bearleeable - Lost City
    Bearleeable - Lost City Posts: 445 Arc User
    edited August 2010
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    Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »
    I think it's a bit of the out with the old, in with the new syndrome. They have a whole new army of players that know nothing except how to charge money to buy hypers or whatever else they want, and to push the older players out while grooming these newer generation of players to mindlessly spend real money every time it seems necessary.

    The light at the end of the tunnel is probably there, but it's probably not on PW.



    /facepalm

    Hey Michael been a while... yep, I think your right... I think this time I'm walking with my wallet. I've struggled through all the mess with nothing ever really fixed. I just spent the last 30 minutes in the game and already I'm ready to close it down for the day. The chat is so bad I can't really tell who is talking in guild and who is talking anywhere else... its a mess!!
    as of this moment "I, Bear, do hereby solemenly swear to never CS again, unless all this huge mess is cleaned up"
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Bebisito - Dreamweaver
    Bebisito - Dreamweaver Posts: 149 Arc User
    edited August 2010
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    Lemme start by saying I'm not usually into PVP of any kind. However, I really like this new system, cause I think it'll cause the people who DO decide to still TW to not be so damn lazy. Get rid of these constant charms! Not like they require any skill to use.

    So basically, I'm happy with the change. I think it'll give people who truly want to have fun in TW a chance. I dont really give a **** if they did this because they want more people to cash shop. You know what? We're the ones who make the choice to cash shop. You don't need to spend boatloads of cash in this game to have fun, and hopefully even competitive people realize that now.

    Seriously, a bunch of the changes this update have made me quite happy. :3
  • TruthWarren - Raging Tide
    TruthWarren - Raging Tide Posts: 1,028 Arc User
    edited August 2010
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    Bebisito - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Lemme start by saying I'm not usually into PVP of any kind. However, I really like this new system, cause I think it'll cause the people who DO decide to still TW to not be so damn lazy. Get rid of these constant charms! Not like they require any skill to use.

    So basically, I'm happy with the change. I think it'll give people who truly want to have fun in TW a chance. I dont really give a **** if they did this because they want more people to cash shop. You know what? We're the ones who make the choice to cash shop. You don't need to spend boatloads of cash in this game to have fun, and hopefully even competitive people realize that now.

    Seriously, a bunch of the changes this update have made me quite happy. :3

    Your right to an opinion has been revoked just in the first sentence. Furthermore, TW is going to die because not only is there no incentive, it will actually set players further behind in coins. Now you have to make a choice: TW or improve gears.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    iwotm8?
  • CornerSan - Raging Tide
    CornerSan - Raging Tide Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited August 2010
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    I know how you are trying to help but many people won't see any real reason to TW anymore. =/
    Why take out tw pay instead of packs?
    take out the packs and replace tw pay and refunds and see if gold prices go down..
  • Lenore - Harshlands
    Lenore - Harshlands Posts: 1,201 Arc User
    edited August 2010
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    What saved the anni pack patch was it benefited cash shoppers. This patch benefits no one.
  • TruthWarren - Raging Tide
    TruthWarren - Raging Tide Posts: 1,028 Arc User
    edited August 2010
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    CornerSan - Raging Tide wrote: »
    I know how you are trying to **** us over by taking out TW incentive and eliminate any other method of success apart from paying you money.

    Fixed that for ya...
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    iwotm8?
  • CornerSan - Raging Tide
    CornerSan - Raging Tide Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited August 2010
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    TruthWarren - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Fixed that for ya...

    lol <3
    thanks?
    I still stand by the original though..
  • Mendolin - Sanctuary
    Mendolin - Sanctuary Posts: 1,092 Arc User
    edited August 2010
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    Bebisito - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Lemme start by saying I'm not usually into PVP of any kind. However, I really like this new system, cause I think it'll cause the people who DO decide to still TW to not be so damn lazy. Get rid of these constant charms! Not like they require any skill to use.

    So basically, I'm happy with the change. I think it'll give people who truly want to have fun in TW a chance. I dont really give a **** if they did this because they want more people to cash shop. You know what? We're the ones who make the choice to cash shop. You don't need to spend boatloads of cash in this game to have fun, and hopefully even competitive people realize that now.

    Seriously, a bunch of the changes this update have made me quite happy. :3

    what you dont understand is that people who already spend cash on the game this doesnt matter.... soo... the people who are left to TW will be people who spend cash because this doesnt really have much effect on them- but the players who do work hard to pay for their charms now have to work even harder- if you have ever been apart of a big faction you would know that TW pay does not cover TW cost.... it just eases some of the pain
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Bebisito - Dreamweaver
    Bebisito - Dreamweaver Posts: 149 Arc User
    edited August 2010
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    TruthWarren - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Your right to an opinion has been revoked just in the first sentence. Furthermore, TW is going to die because not only is there no incentive, it will actually set players further behind in coins. Now you have to make a choice: TW or improve gears.
    I hardly see how my opinion is worthless when now I'm actually considering to TW. That's gotta prove something right there.

    You fail to realize that people might be quitting because they can't make coins anymore, but there are plenty of other ways to make money in this game, without cash shopping. For as many people quit TW, there will be new ones.
  • ElderSig - Dreamweaver
    ElderSig - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,247 Arc User
    edited August 2010
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    By reducing the pay from TW, and remove refunding of bids, you're already creating quite a coin sink for TWs.

    If you really want the smaller factions to TW, (and make it a little more affordable), I'd suggest removing having to pay for Towers/Catas
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Mendolin - Sanctuary
    Mendolin - Sanctuary Posts: 1,092 Arc User
    edited August 2010
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    Bebisito - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    I hardly see how my opinion is worthless when now I'm actually considering to TW. That's gotta prove something right there.

    You fail to realize that people might be quitting because they can't make coins anymore, but there are plenty of other ways to make money in this game, without cash shopping. For as many people quit TW, there will be new ones.

    you basically just proved Michael Dark's theory right.... out with the old players and in with the new...
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Oneji - Heavens Tear
    Oneji - Heavens Tear Posts: 310 Arc User
    edited August 2010
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    SugarPrinces - Sanctuary wrote: »
    nicely put frankie :) after all the flame in the other thread i'm impressed you remain so cool headed, good GM indeed, despite what others had said

    Ah be quiet no brownie point for youb:thanks.
  • Bebisito - Dreamweaver
    Bebisito - Dreamweaver Posts: 149 Arc User
    edited August 2010
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    Mendolin - Sanctuary wrote: »
    you basically just proved Michael Dark's theory right.... out with the old players and in with the new...
    "New" TWers doesn't necessarily mean new to PW. So no, I didn't.
    It means people that never got the chance before.
  • TruthWarren - Raging Tide
    TruthWarren - Raging Tide Posts: 1,028 Arc User
    edited August 2010
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    Bebisito - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    I hardly see how my opinion is worthless when now I'm actually considering to TW. That's gotta prove something right there.

    You fail to realize that people might be quitting because they can't make coins anymore, but there are plenty of other ways to make money in this game, without cash shopping. For as many people quit TW, there will be new ones.

    "...PVP of any kind." Remember that? Yeah, that includes TW. And are you just now considering to TW after realizing those with any skill are probably leaving? Also, there were other ways to make money. Now the value of almost everything out there is going to drop dramatically. Yes, it will be easier for people to obtain gear. But that also means that it will be easier for everyone to obtain good gear. Those who already have a large sum of coins will still be far ahead of the curve. Otherwise, the only way to put yourself ahead of the competition is to cash shop.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    iwotm8?
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