An Early GM Response to the TW Changes

Regenbogen - Lost City

you want hp/mp charm, repair?

go GRIND for it...b:laugh

also silver charms are awailable from event boutique

Tricannon - Dreamweaver

well i dont know all about the international laws and such but are we really that tied down to the china/malaysia versions? i mean yea i know its based from there but the headquarters i last checked was US based and not really connected to china. i kinda agree with Lamia....do we really have to be this bound to china? yea they deal with coin farmers on their servers but i have yet to see that problem even here. i think maybe we should kinda go off on our own tangant rather then be pinned down by china's rules and such. once again just my own opinion and i am not knowledgeable on how copyright and the such works internationally.

Kaldeen - Sanctuary

Originally Posted by Kephras - Heavens Tear View Post
I've poked fun here and there, but I'll weigh in seriously now:

1) I'm not a TW-type person, but I can understand why some or all of these changes have got people up in arms.
2) There are certain elements to the "revised" version that need fixing.

All in all, I do approve of the changes, since it will lead to some moderate decrease in coin. But ultimately? This is the wrong answer if you're aiming to try fixing this inflated economy. For that to happen, do one simple thing:

Remove "10m Bank Note" from the Best Token options.

Simple as that. People still get best tokens and can do useful stuff with them, but the massive coin inflation from every two of the damn things will be gone.

And no, I'm not trying to turn this into a QQ-packs discussion, just saying that nerfing TW payouts is a wrong step in the right direction.

ElderSig - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Well damn said.

Plus, change the font please? The game font is killing my eyes, I literally can not play right now do to a horrible headache.

That's not going to stop inflation, that will make Best Luck tokens MORE than 5m. That should stay where it is to stop Best Luck Tokens from rising in price. As it is, the Best Luck Tokens are the only way to get the items for the level 95 event helm and boots.

They don't contribute to the inflation, they hold a line that should not be removed.

TigerLily - Lost City

LOL at the mirages.

I for one will not spend 4-6 million, or cash shop to afford enough charms and necessity's to stay my best during a hectic TW-weekend. Your average 3 hours TW easily costs 4-8 mil for all the Hp/Mp-charms, attack charms, defense charms, pvp pots, perfect stones you have to get.

Dont think people are still prepared to spend all that money if the reward is like 1 mirage b:chuckle.

I still love going TW but will prolly do it charmless now b:surrender

CRYSTY - Sanctuary

great job with link item feature,i like how u changed TW incoming funds ,lol, seems Nefarious will not be so hunger anymore and this upgrade on TW will give a chance to lower faction to at least to hope to hold a territory,i left the game bcoz of that faction too, without any hope to hold a teritory by my faction, a small gift to those who believed and me , joined me , and support meb:sad.I see the map is more different lol than 1 year ago when all were red.Im thinking to come back in game with all these new features, link items, TW upgrade will change the map lol, its time for a new adventure b:laugh

Miseree - Archosaur

the reason why we are pissed off for about the TW rewards is becos Mirage stones do not worth any price values or useful @ all, the server i am in is half dead and many are high end lv, we would prefer to have coin reward for TW rather then Mirage celestones, i know that the GM are working hard to keep us happy, PWE is a great game developer. I believe that YOU guys can make it better just by listening to the players and doing it, ACTION speaks LOUDER than WORDS

Heartstone - Dreamweaver

ok i do not hate the UI. except that in chat box. the *PRIVATE* guild icon etc before each message pisses me off. however making the UI bigger and more clear on text.. i LOVE that i play at 1920*1080, could barely read my hp bar with old UI if i was more than 70 cm form screen.

Nuff_Said - Raging Tide

I don't think PWI is completely bound to the Chinese company. Gms here said they gave us the Jones blessing because the Chinese company took out the dominance blessing. If thats the case, then how come you are so powerless in this situation?

Darksylph - Heavens Tear

frankieraye wrote: »

I love TW. It and the Gold Trade system are my two favorite parts about PWI; TW brings factions together for a hardcore, team-oriented endgame event. The Gold Trade system makes it so that no player is excluded from the Cash Shop, as long as they're willing to put time and effort into the game. These two systems are what differentiate PWI from every other F2P out there.

I find this statement quite ironic. What makes the Gold Trade system work is that people have the ability to actually make coin in game to sell for Gold from zen chargers. However, what has happened to coin influx into the economy lately? Lets look shall we?

DQ price reduction: Affects negatively those that farm for coin

Purple Mirage nerf: Affects negatively those that farm for coin

TW pay nerf: Affects negatively those that play & fight for coin

2x drops events galore: Not coin influx to the system, but generally puts coins from chargers to farmers. Nerfed all sale prices. Affects farmers negatively & zen chargers positively.

10 Mil Bank Note: Gives money to those that charge zen.

So now you've completely reduced every free players ability to make money in game, while increasing the money for those that charge zen. The result, those that dont charge zen can not afford the Gold Trader anymore, not to the extent they used to. The developers have been making harder & harder to play this game, and use the Gold Trader, if you dont charge zen. The result, free players are leaving. The long term result, no community to sell gold to for zen chargers or even play the game with. These changes are destroying the balance which was nice at the start of the game and killing it.

How about doing what we said a long time ago and removing 10 mil bank notes from token of best luck exchange? Give the free players back their ways to make coin, and watch how much more zen is charged due to more game coin in the gold buyers hands, and more need for coin in the gold sellers hands.

failbunny

next fail change in game....

KingTank - Heavens Tear

i am not in a TW faction and don't really care about TW, although it is fun, but the old system is better, Mirages= useless and Rank 9 stuff is pretty useless you spend lots of money to get the rep or farm like hell, its just another money scheme, hasn't PWE got enough money hungry items out? i can see this game dying very quickly if they don't fix this because its the only good thing about PWI

Itachikun - Lost City

I've already QQed enough on my server about this and so far have gotten this, "Oh your just QQing because your in one of the big guilds and now you don't get your pay, whine whine whine." Well yes, I am quite pissed that I don't get a pay, because yes I've spent my fair share of money on this game, but because school is coming up and college doesn't pay for it's self I've had to cut back on my spending and I was leaning on my money I get for working my **** off in TW to pay for another charm so that I could work my **** off AGAIN to get my next one. Oh I've heard it before, just go grind. Well to tell you the truth, I have never grinded, even before I started to put money into this game. Why don't I grind you ask? Because I have to use a charm to save my **** from dying half the time, so where does that charm come from? Pfft, more grinding which in turn ruins the charm I have on. So no, I will never turn to grinding. On the whole, "Well at least some small guilds will get a chance to get lands." Ok, so some smaller guilds get up and in the world of owning lands, now what happens? They too start QQing because they have all this land, and what do they get from it? Mirages. At least make the prizes something more useful, seriously. I get tons of mirages from my BH as it is.

/endrant

TigerLily - Lost City

If you remove the reward from owning lands in this game you have to replace it with something else!

I mean i dont particularly think land has to give coins, it can be something else. But 150 mirages and a chance to receive and item needed for rank 9 (that only 00.000000001%) of the server will ever benefit from isn't proportional for the effort you put into a TW.

I can understand that PW dislikes 550mil coins getting pumped into the game without any cash shopping being involved. Its very understandable.

But to keep players interested in TW there has to be at least some sort of benefit/reward for winning a land. Just free teleport and a couple of mirage stones wont really cut it.

I guess if they make mirage stones really hard to get it might keep the interested for TW.

But as it is today, most 100+ players including myself get more mirages than all the lands will give together from just doing BH100/TT/Nirvana/ event/MQ/decomposing OHT gear.

Rawrgh - Raging Tide

frankieraye wrote: »

The reason is this: The patch just came out, and some time really has to pass before any of us truly knows the effects of it.

I'm reading all of your concerns and I've thrown in some of my own opinions about the patch. Kantorek has done the same. I read you loud and clear; the TW pay has been decreased and you're worried about not being able to afford charms anymore. You feel like we're ruining a beautiful part of the game. I understand that; this is a pretty big change to the system, so it's normal that you're worried about it.

I love TW. It and the Gold Trade system are my two favorite parts about PWI; TW brings factions together for a hardcore, team-oriented endgame event. The Gold Trade system makes it so that no player is excluded from the Cash Shop, as long as they're willing to put time and effort into the game. These two systems are what differentiate PWI from every other F2P out there.

Let me just assure you that we do NOT want to ruin the TW system. From what I understand, these changes were implemented to combat problems that have plagued longer-running versions of PW -- those in Malaysia and China. I have to say that I do like the idea of taking what we know about those versions and using it to try to protect this version.

What I'm asking is that we give this system some time before condemning it for good. There has been a lot of speculation, and the majority of you are very much against it, and that's been noted, believe me.

But for now, this is the game, and these are the changes that have been made to it. We will be closely monitoring what happens with TW over this next month, and Konari, Aryanna, and myself will be on these boards to hear you out during the process.

I'm sorry but this sounds just FAR too similar to what was posted in the DQ price compensation thread, something we haven't seen results on in months.



You want to solve this problem, it's simple really.

An instance charm that is given upon entering the TW. The charm will function as a normal HP charm and will not run out. It expires upon leaving the instance.


Bam, problem solved. TW is still fun, can still be done without going broke every weekend, and there's no gold inflation.

ThrawnOFive - Dreamweaver

Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »

I'm sorry but this sounds just FAR too similar to what was posted in the DQ price compensation thread, something we haven't seen results on in months.

QFT




10 char

Loltank - Harshlands

I like how we're trying to combat a gold farming problem THAT DOESN"T EXIST by removing TW pay from the game and keeping the best luck tokens.

You guys never cease to amaze me.

Bearleeable - Lost City

Alteir - Harshlands wrote: »

the money from holding a land benefits the faction as TW is not cheap. Setting up all the towers, getting the cata scrolls, providing cata barbs with apo pots and charms etc. No one wants to pay for all that out of pocket. Your prize for holding a territory is you don't have to worry about that anymore. If you manage to hold enough land that you have a surpluss of cash congrats that surpluss can be paid directly to the players or used to gear up your loyal members eventually trickeling down to every member in the faction.
.

That is very true... we figured that the basic tw run is 2M not counting ANY charms. Thats just cata, towers, bid, etc... Thats one heck of a lot of grinding that the guild leadership is EXPECTED to pay for.

Itachikun - Lost City wrote: »

Well to tell you the truth, I have never grinded, even before I started to put money into this game. Why don't I grind you ask? Because I have to use a charm to save my **** from dying half the time, so where does that charm come from? Pfft, more grinding which in turn ruins the charm I have on. So no, I will never turn to grinding.

LOL you **** ur charm cause you don't know how to skillfully play ur char. I have chars of every class in the game of various levels and NEVER **** charms unless things go VERY badly. I spend my time learning how to maximize the ability of my chars so that they can do their job w/o being ridicously expensive and b4 u say it NO i'm not a major CS'r. I get to spend $50 once in a while to support 4 daily chars. and a wife who is fixated on fash b:cry

TigerLily - Lost City wrote: »

If you remove the reward from owning lands in this game you have to replace it with something else!

I mean i dont particularly think land has to give coins, it can be something else. But 150 mirages and a chance to receive and item needed for rank 9 (that only 00.000000001%) of the server will ever benefit from isn't proportional for the effort you put into a TW.

I can understand that PW dislikes 550mil coins getting pumped into the game without any cash shopping being involved. Its very understandable.

But to keep players interested in TW there has to be at least some sort of benefit/reward for winning a land. Just free teleport and a couple of mirage stones wont really cut it.

I guess if they make mirage stones really hard to get it might keep the interested for TW.

But as it is today, most 100+ players including myself get more mirages than all the lands will give together from just doing BH100/TT/Nirvana/ event/MQ/decomposing OHT gear.

Hi Lily, yep, your right... even though the server is VERY top heavy right now ( thanks to hypers and packs *cough* ) I don't see the majority of players who go to TW being able to wear rank9 UNLESS they are SERIOUS CS'rs so that they can buy the tokens to get the insane amount of rep it requires.

Not having a repay for loss bid, not having funds from the win ( should we be so lucky ) is going to seriously hurt smaller guilds like ours. Our plan for the land funds was

1. pay for next weeks tw bid/twr/cata
2. pay for gears/orb/mats so that the guild core could be more efficent and pass down their old guild gear to others.
3. help with gear costs for thos less fortunate
4. provide some kind of salary to help offset the personal cost to TW

As a smaller guild there is no way we can afford to blindly bid money to TW. We just can't afford it. Sure Essence's HUGE stockpile will be able to for, I would assume, many weeks, But for us attempting to TW is a one direction venture.. MONEY SINK. There's not much fun in that.b:shocked I can think of lots better uses for 2M+ then giving it to pwi electrons. I bet my guild members would be able to put the money to better use b:lipcurl
Mirages don't help us a bit... even @13k a peice ( which will soon plummet ) the amount you'd make ( almost none since the market will be flooded ) will not even make a nick in the TW costs.

now PERHAPS of the entry level lands (lvl3?) were money return then that would make sense. Certainely would help lower guilds get on board as they would have their bid back and have a reasonable chance @ lvl 2 lands. BEFORE YOU FLAME THINK ABOUT THIS...

I've been here almost since day one. Have never been in a serious TW guild. As 90% of my time has been as Co-Leader of AE. In that time I don't think I can think of ONE negative thing that has been rolled back. I can think of MANY bugs that are still around and that have come and not been fixed.
I've been in another game where botting and farming were prevalent. PWI does not have this problem. DO NOT treat a patient for cancer when its got a cold!! IF i remember right pw-cn is p2p not f2p, I'm almost 100% positive one version is.

I love the clearer font's. I've been constantly leaning in and out of my monitor to read fonts which are just far away for the bifocals to NOT work in either mode b:surrender

The money and effort I've put into this game to date is unreal for someone who is not rich. 2 elite veno pets and lots of charm/fash and the occasional attempt @ packs and a website which imho is 2nd to none, has me resistant to change games but..... this latest move certainely doesn't give much for our higher level players to look forward to now. We're discussing this in guild but I don't see a positive light @ the end of the tunnel @ this point.

Russiee - Raging Tide

Actually I quite like the new font. It looks a bit like what im doing here. Lets add icons to the forums too so they can resemble the game. I love this new update

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Bearleeable - Lost City wrote: »

The money and effort I've put into this game to date is unreal for someone who is not rich. 2 elite veno pets and lots of charm/fash and the occasional attempt @ packs and a website which imho is 2nd to none, has me resistant to change games but..... this latest move certainely doesn't give much for our higher level players to look forward to now. We're discussing this in guild but I don't see a positive light @ the end of the tunnel @ this point.

I think it's a bit of the out with the old, in with the new syndrome. They have a whole new army of players that know nothing except how to charge money to buy hypers or whatever else they want, and to push the older players out while grooming these newer generation of players to mindlessly spend real money every time it seems necessary.

The light at the end of the tunnel is probably there, but it's probably not on PW.

Russiee - Raging Tide wrote: »

I liek BIG txt cause it maeks me feel more smarter!

/facepalm

Russiee - Raging Tide

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

I think it's a bit of the out with the old, in with the new syndrome. They have a whole new army of players that know nothing except how to charge money to buy hypers or whatever else they want, and to push the older players out while grooming these newer generation of players to mindlessly spend real money every time it seems necessary.

The light at the end of the tunnel is probably there, but it's probably not on PW.



/facepalm

Eye feel so smart now.

MindCrime - Harshlands

My two cents (which equals about 1/8 a cent in PW):

Cash shop items have pushed ppl to lvl at a super fast rate to end game. Items (gear/ weapons) that were very long term goals were made too easily accessible from packs and took away any sense of achievement in the game.

At end game there isn't much left to do BUT TW.

These changes to the TW system have made it so it will be even harder to get ppl to go to TW due to not much incentive left.

Too much stress on guild officers to try to get ppl to go to TW = more ppl quitting the game.

I had all but quit BEFORE the changes.

Now there really isn't much reason to come back full time.

Thank you PW for making a hard decision for me much easier.

I quit.

b:bye

Pattoe - Raging Tide

YOU ALWAYS FAIL TO MENTION THE CHANGE IN THE BIDDING SYSTEM WHICH IS WHAT I AM UPSET ABOUT.


Hopefully you cant ignore that now, but knowing you, Frankie, ull ignore it completely because you don't care about us at all, really. Its not about the tw pay its about the bidding system.

Btw, u cant delete this post, I didn't insult you, just voiced my opinion on your behaviour.


-Sigh- Resize my post and continue to ignore the problem, AryannaMage? Come on, you can do better than that, ACTUALLY respond to me. Come on, stop ignoring us and censoring us and stop ruining the game for people who have stayed (Not me, im leaving, im done with this corrupt company treating its customers like rubbish with 0 marketing department just accountants going mad.)

Mendolin - Sanctuary

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

I think it's a bit of the out with the old, in with the new syndrome. They have a whole new army of players that know nothing except how to charge money to buy hypers or whatever else they want, and to push the older players out while grooming these newer generation of players to mindlessly spend real money every time it seems necessary.

The light at the end of the tunnel is probably there, but it's probably not on PW.

/facepalm

sad to say- but +1...

on Sanctuary the map was 50/50 almost between 2 factions (large factions owning quite a bit of land and gaining quite a bit of coin) and guess what... gold was around 150k...
packs came out and gold sky rocketed

packs leave... GOLD GOES DOWN

and then they come back and guess what? GOLD GOES BACK UP

EVEN AFTER THIS PATCH GOLD ROSE AGAIN!!

i will say this again... how stupid do you think we are pwi?
YOU the devs or YOU the GMs put these rare epic items in the boutique- gold prices are determined by how much people are willing to pay... and as long as there are a handful of people willing to pay the 400-500k for that CHANCE for those epic rare items (cash shoppers who have no value for coin)... then gold will never go down....

gold goes down when the use of boutique goes down... yet you keep coming out with new things people can buy... hmm...

Squirrel - Harshlands

"nice" WORK PWI YOU FAIL AGAIN AND AGAIN

next time when you want to do something like this **** just put voting in forum and see what every1 will say about it . EASY AND FAIR WAY TO DO CHANGES IN GAME

Pattoe - Raging Tide

YOU ALWAYS FAIL TO MENTION THE CHANGE IN THE BIDDING SYSTEM WHICH IS WHAT I AM UPSET ABOUT.


Size 5 is more appropriate, right?

Btw, why even offer size 7 if you edit all the posts of people who use it? seems illogical... oh wait, sorry, I forgot I was dealing with PWE staff, illogical is all they have.

Come on, some GM, some Mod, SOMEONE say something about the new Bidding system and not about pay, noone should care bout pay.

Redmenace - Heavens Tear

Potman - Raging Tide wrote: »

My opinion on this update to tw

1)Mirage stones for reward is just silly. It's akin to giving people a cookie as a reward, pretty condescending.

Mirage stone IS NOT the only alternative to monetary rewards is it? So if you wanted rid of the huge gold income, why not come up with a different reward that was still *attractive*. Mirage stones are not attractive, they are a total total joke. And whichever way you try to excuse this, Mirage stones as a reward for owning a territory will not appeal to 1 single player, new or old.

Tokens. Pack tokens. This would enable factions to keep their members supplied with event food, instead of Charms.

Potman - Raging Tide wrote: »

2)Not refunding bids hurts smaller guilds who have to raise gold to bid, more than it does the bigger guilds.

There was no reason to do this. None whatsoever. Want to bring down fake bids/give small factions a chance? 2M Max bid.

Potman - Raging Tide wrote: »

3)I had played pw-my, and one guild dominating the map was not fun. And I'd agree that the huge amount of money the dominating guilds make increased the gap between them and the smaller guilds.

Big factions eventually fall of their own weight, or from boredom. Or you could simply tell everyone "Every 6 months, we randomize the map". Then we all get a chance to actually TW against mobs, once in our lives.

<shrugs>

Potman - Raging Tide wrote: »

Noone is naive enough to believe that Mirage stones are an equivalent remuneration to gold, and whoever thought of using Mirage stone as a reward has basically insulted every player playing this game.

Im sure if you asked people here for alternative rewards for TW's, you would get many ideas that did not involve huge amounts of money. I am very surprised the best solution the developers could come up with was Mirage stones.

I like TW because they're fun, I never really liked how 1 or 2 guilds could dominate the entire map and bring in so much money. So in that respect, I really dont mind doing away with the monetary reward for TW, but I think you should have been a lot more creative with the replacement rewards.

Seriously, mirage stones? what were you smoking?

This is all driven by problems on the Chinese servers, and adjustments to our version will not be made until they at least try to force us to share the same codebase.

The only exceptions we get are given grudgingly, because it seriously complicates the developers lives to keep 2 seperate software threads running at once.

This will run like all the others have run. After a few weeks, *some* of it *may* get changed. A decent chunk of teeny-boppers will stomp off the game, red faced and whimpering.

I just hope they don't drop the game entirely. I don't like the changes either, but I can live with them.

RedMenace

\tl;dr

Favu - Heavens Tear

This is the most disappointing update I've seen PWI make, and I've been here since January 2009.

Nice job GM's, this is the one that will most likely ruin the game.

I might as well log in and take my cleric out of Radiance. I don't care about a ****** mirage celestone. And btw, nice job **** over EVERY single person who got married in-game before today.

TW was about the only thing this game had left for it. See you all in the next MMO. Let's hope it's from a different company.


Fail.

Pattoe - Raging Tide

Favu - Heavens Tear wrote: »

This is the most disappointing update I've seen PWI make, and I've been here since January 2009.

Nice job GM's, this is the one that will most likely ruin the game.

I might as well log in and take my cleric out of Radiance. I don't care about a ****** mirage celestone. And btw, nice job **** over EVERY single person who got married in-game before today.

TW was about the only thing this game had left for it. See you all in the next MMO. Let's hope it's from a different company.


Fail.

Oooooh, Trust me, I'm never ever playing any of Perfect World Entertainment's games anymore, im going to check all future games I play very carefully to make sure they're not connected to or affiliated to this train-wreck of a company in any way, shape or form.

Ambition - Raging Tide

Starcraft 2.

Am I getting banned yet?

Squirrel - Harshlands

guys you talking for chance to small faction to take lands ?

i want to ask you something : What you will do with that land when you get it ? 150 mirages ? 150 mirages = 1.7 mil and what you doing with that money ? pay to faction members ? distribute mirages betwin members ? or what ? may be you going to pay cata barbs charms with 150 mirages for next TW ? answer me pls