An Early GM Response to the TW Changes
Comments
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frankieraye wrote: »** b:shocked **
[Forum]SashaGray:
wow thats a great response, very well thought out and pertinent.
everything has pretty much been said, but responding to someone for sharing their account when faced with 100+ pages of people saying they are leaving now, or will leave when this week nothing again is done about the TW destroying patch is like building a moat to keep out a hurricane. how about responding to the topic, nobody is looking to you for a cute response, we're looking for information on how pwi is going to correct this colossal failure of a patch, before they move on to greener pastures.
Incase you havent been watching the stock of your employer, it dropped by 50% in the past year.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
SashaGray - Heavens Tear wrote: »[Forum]SashaGray:
wow thats a great response, very well thought out and pertinent.
everything has pretty much been said, but responding to someone for sharing their account when faced with 100+ pages of people saying they are leaving now, or will leave when this week nothing again is done about the TW destroying patch is like building a moat to keep out a hurricane. how about responding to the topic, nobody is looking to you for a cute response, we're looking for information on how pwi is going to correct this colossal failure of a patch, before they move on to greener pastures.
Incase you havent been watching the stock of your employer, it dropped by 50% in the past year.
The official response is on page 1, and it states that it's far too early to tell whether the changes in this patch will make the game better or worse. The devs do not work all day to ruin the game, so I think this patch deserves a fair shake before we come to an accurate conclusion.0 -
frankieraye wrote: »The official response is on page 1, and it states that it's far to early to tell whether the changes in this patch will make the game better or worse. The devs do not work all day to ruin the game, so I think this patch deserves a fair shake before we come to an accurate conclusion.
I hate you people, all those from China to PWE, never test patches that can greatly change the game. If the developers cared a little about the game their patches would at least be bug-free. Here you are saying that to give the patch some time to see if it works. However why do we have to put up with this experiment when it should be tested on a separate server, or at least discussed with the community. In my opinion this is very risky for you people, all those from China to PWE, to make so many custumers rage.0 -
I got bored and left my client running for 5 hours with only system chat/whispers enabled. I then came back and counted the number of Best Luck shouts I saw.
Within that five hours, roughly 300 mil was injected into the server from said best lucks. Tell me, again, how one can say TW is the problem when, assuming this pattern is kept up, far more coin is injected into the server in a day from best lucks than in a week via TW pay that often gets recycled back into TW?0 -
frankieraye wrote: »The official response is on page 1, and it states that it's far too early to tell whether the changes in this patch will make the game better or worse. The devs do not work all day to ruin the game, just a few hours a day or so so I think this patch deserves a fair shake before we come to an accurate conclusion.
^.^
Just kidding
xD
Again, GMs don't has all the answers.
b:bye
And me choose on principles to not read the minds of developers.
o.o'darthpanda16: Firefox crashed on me. Aryannamage: I don't think I am a GM that would be new.
Hawk:Do this. closing thread
frankieraye: I'll see if we can replace the woman with a stick figure and the tiger fangs with marshmallows.//Issues like these need to get escalated quickly to minimize the damage.
Kantorek: Yeah.. you should try it. It's awesome.
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LokisDottir: I mean...not haunting the forums, nope nope..
Konariraiden: You don't know what you are up against. You will lose.
Waiting for...Hamster Packs!
58% chance to get tokens
41% chance to get an all class pet hamster....but they has already been freed by the magic hamster.
1% chance to get ban hamstered with the message "Hamsters United!"
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Azura - Lost City wrote: »I hate you people, all those from China to PWE, never test patches that can greatly change the game. If the developers cared a little about the game their patches would at least be bug-free. Here you are saying that to give the patch some time to see if it works. However why do we have to put up with this experiment when it should be tested on a separate server, or at least discussed with the community. In my opinion this is very risky for you people, all those from China to PWE, to make so many custumers rage.
Sigh, agree 100% b:angryb:cry
Hi Azura b:bye0 -
Susamajii - Lost City wrote: »QQ 36k in tiger = 33 charm ticks till dead gold charm (if i dont die) and 28-29k tick every time i die in tiger form = LOT O CHARM TICKING CAPN. On a side note I'm not banned from forams anymore
Yeah I know your charm costs... I think it's pretty ritual for all of us to say how much charm we burned in vent after TW is over. I would cry at the rate you go through platinum charms.So since people don't like to hear the truth or maybe they don't like being told it bluntly I'll just say here i love this patch omg keep things like this coming. Hai FrankieRaye Infact I'll go charge right now for absolutely no reason at all. /facepalm
/inb4ragerefineto40khp
No, really.I post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.0 -
frankieraye wrote: »The official response is on page 1, and it states that it's far too early to tell whether the changes in this patch will make the game better or worse. The devs do not work all day to ruin the game, so I think this patch deserves a fair shake before we come to an accurate conclusion.
Well let's see, the gold prices went up instead of down, small guilds are complaining that they won't be able to challenge the big guilds, big guilds are complaining that doesn't stop the fake bids, and coin is still rolling in from tokens. I don't mean to be rude but I think when the problems you claim you are trying to solve become worse, it's a pretty good sign that the patch is fail, even if you ignore the many many (did I mention many) players who either quit or refused to charge zhen over it (which is a bad sign in and of itself).0 -
I got bored and left my client running for 5 hours with only system chat/whispers enabled. I then came back and counted the number of Best Luck shouts I saw.
Within that five hours, roughly 300 mil was injected into the server from said best lucks. Tell me, again, how one can say TW is the problem when, assuming this pattern is kept up, far more coin is injected into the server in a day from best lucks than in a week via TW pay that often gets recycled back into TW?
So lets see here. 300 mil in 5 hours. 168 hours per week, that tallies 10,080 mil injected into the week from best luck tokens. So tell me Frankie, how much impact is that 500 mil from TW really making when its only 5% of the money injected per week from packs?0 -
anyway i'm in TW fact, but we dont hold any land. Some of you asume that this new TW-rules might change anything but it wont at all. GMs said its for bigger facts who just sit on their gold but in the end its not the money they get each week thats gonna **** the big facts, actually its the money small facts gonna bid on this big fact (which they wont get refunded). Some ppl say "oh well they have no money now for charms" (small facts dont have the money either)..its bs...2mil the week is nothing for them. All members in big facts are over lvl90 they just go solo TT in squad mode few times and sell all **** they have and earn 10mil.
TW with small fact against big fact might last 15min if lucky (and enough people appear), so means it has nothing to do with the charms whatever...its their gear. PWI makes people lvl to fast...and thats the only reason why people getting rich and grind their **** off on TT, cube, event, molds. I remember when those big facts had req. lvl60+ and now its lvl90+...and i see ppl getting richer and greedier since BH started along with tokens etc (i just blame ur ****ty tokens). It has nothing to do with bots (which actually dont excist on our servers)..its all PWIs fault and they push it on loyal players.
The reason why big facts will get weak for a few is cause some of you really think that this change is profitable and attack at same time....but in longterm it wont change anything at all, cause they will stay overpowered.
sorry for my bad english ppl
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Although it is true that the packs are the cause of gold prices skyrocketing, it has also brought us easily acquired endgame items. What they are trying to do is to lower the rate of inflation while still keeping the goodies in the cash shop available. I would not want to sacrifice the goods acquired from the cash shop for a reduced price in gold. What's the point of having gold if theres nothing good to spend? I do not cash shop, I have not put one penny into the game, yet I am able to acquire these goodies with a some time and effort. If they removed the goodies from the cash shop, i would have to apply MUCH more effort in order to acquire the same items.
Sure, it is "unfair" for players that grind for their coins. But hey, that's just how it is. Supply and demand is what sway the prices to what they are.Airyll - Dreamweaver wrote: »Frankie, the concerns that have been put forward have huge relevance. While we need to give the new system a chance, it's not just the TW system changes that people have a problem with.
TW has been around since... well, near enough since the beginning. While one faction didn't own an entire map, TW pay was still TW pay, and gold price never hit the 400k mark. What inflated the gold price was your sales. Please, Frankie, do not treat us like we are stupid. The constant sale of pack after pack has done far more damage then all TW pay combined, I imagine.
And now, at the time you change TW, you implement another sale to raise gold prices even further. If you're going to try and change a system that wasn't really broken in the first place, do it properly.
Stop with these sales.
Reset the map.
Sale after sale after sale after sale is what has caused these gold prices. All you have done is made TW your scapegoat. And you did a very bad job of that.0 -
Darksylph - Heavens Tear wrote: »So lets see here. 300 mil in 5 hours. 168 hours per week, that tallies 10,080 mil injected into the week from best luck tokens. So tell me Frankie, how much impact is that 500 mil from TW really making when its only 5% of the money injected per week from packs?
Edit:Correction what is stated below was a mistake, but i'll leave it here for you to see it -.- Yes, apparently i forgot that the gold trading isn't an npc money sink -_-. Disregard what is stated below.
You haven't accounted for the money LOSS wfor buying the packs themselves and opening them. 10 packs is roughly 4 million coins. Do you think you could get at least 1 best luck for every 10 packs? People can spend up to 100 packs and only get normal tokens. In fact, i believe more coins have been REMOVED from the system than injected.0 -
FastTwitch - Archosaur wrote: »*snip*
We've already mentioned an obvious solution that actually works: Removing the 10 mil note from the options you can get with best lucks or, at the very least, making it cost more than just two of them.
Besides, they were doing just fine before packs became a near permanent item in the cash shop. So it's not like there wasn't anything worth charging $$ for. It's just that packs enabled people to become incredibly lazy and are pretty much PWI's version of the "I win" button.FastTwitch - Archosaur wrote: »You haven't accounted for the money LOSS wfor buying the packs themselves and opening them. 10 packs is roughly 4 million coins. Do you think you could get at least 1 best luck for every 10 packs? People can spend up to 100 packs and only get normal tokens. In fact, i believe more coins have been REMOVED from the system than injected.
... Nevermind since you CLEARLY do not know how the system works.
That 4 mil you mentioned? It's not drained out of the system, all that happened is it passed hands to another player. That 10 gold? It came from outside the system via someone spending $$. Those best luck tokens? They ALL boil down to money coming out of nowhere because ALL gold in-game comes from outside the system at the end of the day and all that buying gold with coin does is transfer coins from one player to another.0 -
You cannot test it on a separate server when the problem is in THIS server. Everyone has been QQ'ing about how the gold prices havs been rising. And here, PWI is finally taking action, and now everyone is QQing more. It's time to be adults and accept that you can't have everything without sacrifice.Azura - Lost City wrote: »I hate you people, all those from China to PWE, never test patches that can greatly change the game. If the developers cared a little about the game their patches would at least be bug-free. Here you are saying that to give the patch some time to see if it works. However why do we have to put up with this experiment when it should be tested on a separate server, or at least discussed with the community. In my opinion this is very risky for you people, all those from China to PWE, to make so many custumers rage.0 -
FastTwitch - Archosaur wrote: »You haven't accounted for the money LOSS wfor buying the packs themselves and opening them. 10 packs is roughly 4 million coins. Do you think you could get at least 1 best luck for every 10 packs? People can spend up to 100 packs and only get normal tokens. In fact, i believe more coins have been REMOVED from the system than injected.
Money spent on packs stays in the system - it's traded between one player and another. Short of the AH gold trader fee, no money leaves the system. Every 2 best luck tokens, however creates 10m new coin in the system.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Thanks for the sig Ophida
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FastTwitch - Archosaur wrote: »Although it is true that the packs are the cause of gold prices skyrocketing, it has also brought us easily acquired endgame items. What they are trying to do is to lower the rate of inflation while still keeping the goodies in the cash shop available. I would not want to sacrifice the goods acquired from the cash shop for a reduced price in gold. What's the point of having gold if theres nothing good to spend? I do not cash shop, I have not put one penny into the game, yet I am able to acquire these goodies with a some time and effort. If they removed the goodies from the cash shop, i would have to apply MUCH more effort in order to acquire the same items.
The people saying the packs are causing all the inflation, are referring specifically to the fact that 2 tokens of best luck = 10 million coins from bank note added to the economic system. This money comes from nothing. As was shown about 1/2 a page ago, each week (roughly) 10 BILLION coins are injected into the economy from packs. This is the cause of the inflation. The huge demand isnt to remove packs entirely (although many would like to see them go) but more specifically; REMOVE 10 MIL BANK NOTE from reward choice for tokens of best luck.FastTwitch - Archosaur wrote: »You haven't accounted for the money LOSS wfor buying the packs themselves and opening them. 10 packs is roughly 4 million coins. Do you think you could get at least 1 best luck for every 10 packs? People can spend up to 100 packs and only get normal tokens. In fact, i believe more coins have been REMOVED from the system than injected.
NO coins are lost in buying packs, you just hand those coins to other players. Economics of inflation & defletion deal with coin influx & sinks. Actual ways which coins are added & removed from the economic system as a whole. If you pay 400k per pack, another player is getting that money, its not removed from the games economy.0 -
FastTwitch - Archosaur wrote: »Although it is true that the packs are the cause of gold prices skyrocketing, it has also brought us easily acquired endgame items. What they are trying to do is to lower the rate of inflation while still keeping the goodies in the cash shop available. I would not want to sacrifice the goods acquired from the cash shop for a reduced price in gold. What's the point of having gold if theres nothing good to spend? I do not cash shop, I have not put one penny into the game, yet I am able to acquire these goodies with a some time and effort. If they removed the goodies from the cash shop, i would have to apply MUCH more effort in order to acquire the same items.
Sure, it is "unfair" for players that grind for their coins. But hey, that's just how it is. Supply and demand is what sway the prices to what they are.
This issue has been around longer than packs...
Before packs ever existed, they introduced "chest of coins" (1 mil coins) as a reward for completing Cube of Fate. But it takes a perfect iron hammer (5 gold) to open the chest. There's no other way to get a perfect iron hammer, you have to buy it with 5 gold. So instantly gold went from 100k to 200k+. It also instantly rendered the chests useless as a reward. Now, what other possible reason could there have been for this, other than to drive gold prices UP?
Not an attack, I'm just saying... b:surrender0 -
FastTwitch - Archosaur wrote: »You haven't accounted for the money LOSS wfor buying the packs themselves and opening them. 10 packs is roughly 4 million coins. Do you think you could get at least 1 best luck for every 10 packs? People can spend up to 100 packs and only get normal tokens. In fact, i believe more coins have been REMOVED from the system than injected.
EL OH EL U DUMB?
If you're purchasing packs with coin and using the Gold Trader, someone else gets that coin. It doesn't disappear it just changes hands.
/facepalmI post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.0 -
FastTwitch - Archosaur wrote: »You cannot test it on a separate server when the problem is in THIS server. Everyone has been QQ'ing about how the gold prices havs been rising. And here, PWI is finally taking action, and now everyone is QQing more. It's time to be adults and accept that you can't have everything without sacrifice.
No offense, but your prior posts have proven you don't know much about what you're talking about. It's the people like you who would let them get away with stupid things like this because you're so easy to take advantage of.
If they wanted to fix things, there are several different ways to do it, none of which they've chosen to employ. How can you honestly say they're trying to lower gold prices and fix things for us when they have two different versions of anni packs in cash shop at the same time AND then decided to release a 12* dragon orb (aka the most expensive thing you can get from the cash shop directly) in a pack?0 -
FastTwitch - Archosaur wrote: »You cannot test it on a separate server when the problem is in THIS server. Everyone has been QQ'ing about how the gold prices havs been rising. And here, PWI is finally taking action, and now everyone is QQing more. It's time to be adults and accept that you can't have everything without sacrifice.
LOLUDUMB? Taking action against what? How many posts have pointed out that this has done NOTHING to improve gold prices?0 -
FastTwitch - Archosaur wrote: »You haven't accounted for the money LOSS wfor buying the packs themselves and opening them. 10 packs is roughly 4 million coins. Do you think you could get at least 1 best luck for every 10 packs? People can spend up to 100 packs and only get normal tokens. In fact, i believe more coins have been REMOVED from the system than injected.
Oh so you think the money you spend when you buy a 450K pack just disappeared. Well, why would that person even sell you the pack if he doesn't get the coin from it. The coin isn't removed from the system, it just exchanged hands. I suppose you're still immature enough for peek-a-boo?0 -
Andres - Dreamweaver wrote: »Yes, there were more coins due to TW lands, but it's not because of this that the gold prices are high. Charm costs do not remove coin from the game but catapult scrolls 20k each (around 20 per barb in 2 hour wars, 4-8 catas depending on the land), towers (14-20? depending on land level at 100k each), bid (20% of 500k-200m), Res scrolls for certain squads (55k each, 2-3 used per TW) as well as Elixirs which do not overlap with event food CD... they are all sold by merchant so they all soak a part of it.
I never said that TW was the cause of the problem. It's not. I was only countering the people saying that TW removes more coins than it puts out, which is simply not true.Main characters
Celestial Sage Venomancer Zoe - 100
Sage Barbarian Malego - 910 -
frankieraye wrote: »The reason is this: The patch just came out, and some time really has to pass before any of us truly knows the effects of it.
I'm reading all of your concerns and I've thrown in some of my own opinions about the patch. Kantorek has done the same. I read you loud and clear; the TW pay has been decreased and you're worried about not being able to afford charms anymore. You feel like we're ruining a beautiful part of the game. I understand that; this is a pretty big change to the system, so it's normal that you're worried about it.
I love TW. It and the Gold Trade system are my two favorite parts about PWI; TW brings factions together for a hardcore, team-oriented endgame event. The Gold Trade system makes it so that no player is excluded from the Cash Shop, as long as they're willing to put time and effort into the game. These two systems are what differentiate PWI from every other F2P out there.
Let me just assure you that we do NOT want to ruin the TW system. From what I understand, these changes were implemented to combat problems that have plagued longer-running versions of PW -- those in Malaysia and China. I have to say that I do like the idea of taking what we know about those versions and using it to try to protect this version.
What I'm asking is that we give this system some time before condemning it for good. There has been a lot of speculation, and the majority of you are very much against it, and that's been noted, believe me.
But for now, this is the game, and these are the changes that have been made to it. We will be closely monitoring what happens with TW over this next month, and Konari, Aryanna, and myself will be on these boards to hear you out during the process.
Similar I heard more than 1 year ago when gold rise up.
We will be closely monitoring what happens with gold over this next month, and Konari, Aryanna, and myself will be on these boards to hear you out during the process.
And nothing happened.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
frankieraye wrote: »The official response is on page 1, and it states that it's far too early to tell whether the changes in this patch will make the game better or worse. The devs do not work all day to ruin the game, so I think this patch deserves a fair shake before we come to an accurate conclusion.
Yes, the response is on page 1 and basically what it says is "we'll see and we'll get back to you". Which, in and of itself might be fine BUT what you need to understand here is that is EXACTLY what we were told about DQ prices: "we'll see and we'll get back to you". Except, no one ever did...
So, and I really am trying to put this nicely, please tell me where the response of how that issue was fixed is at. Because, from where we sit, this is just another problem that PWI is going to hope just goes away. You'll have to allow us some latitude for not believing that line again since it has been used to no effect already...
Also, of course we do not believe that the devs spend all day trying to ruin the game. What we do believe, however, is that they are trying to make as much money for PWI as possible and trying to encourage people to buy zen to the point that it's overkill. Otherwise, there are SO many other solutions to these problems that don't hurt everyone else as much. For example, if you want to lower gold prices then set a fixed amount instead of a market or put a cap on the market for maximum selling price (personally I think the fixed price would work better but that's not important). Problem solved. Want to take coin out of the market? Have an NPC selling charms or something else common that we always buy from the boutique in which case coin NPCd is coin gone. Problem solved. Or, if you want to stop people from instance saving, change the setting so that mobs in the instances never respawn and remove the painful timer that hurts so many other people who did nothing wrong. Problem solved. Do you see what I'm saying here? Instead of using the simple solutions to fix the problems of a few we are being stuck with solutions that mostly nobody likes.
But the biggest problem here, IMO, is that we do not get a response to our concerns. Yes, we see the official response to the overall general problem. But the specific things that are brought up are completely ignored and never addressed and we have to start to wonder if anyone is really listening. Yes, I know someone is reading. Yes, I know someone is moderating. But are they listening? It seems like no and that is truly disheartening...
Also, just keeping an eye on the TW activity for a couple weeks will not give you a truly honest picture. Why? Well, the big factions cannot be seen to stop TWing because then it starts the rumors of "oh, they're gonna fall apart" and right now we are losing enough players (both from the factions and from the game itself) as to be painful already. Those rumors, if believed, would be the death of any large faction (and many smaller ones) and, in the hopes that PWI does fix this, they are continuing to soldier on. So no, in the short term it will not change TW. It's the long term consequences that will inevitably happen when PWI does not listen to its player base that will be the problem. Waiting to see may very well bring it all down in the long run and is not an effective solution as evidenced by the sheer volume of people that are already quitting the game altogether.
Also, on a somewhat unrelated topic but relevant to the "no one listening" part, why don't we have GMs on Archosaur? If anyone world chats or anything else for a GM the only response we get is a whisper or other world chats saying "They don't exist". Again, very disheartening...0 -
Indiri - Archosaur wrote: »Also, on a somewhat unrelated topic but relevant to the "no one listening" part, why don't we have GMs on Archosaur? If anyone world chats or anything else for a GM the only response we get is a whisper or other world chats saying "They don't exist". Again, very disheartening...
I saw someone flip out cause they couldn't get a GM response from a WC request once . . . it was at 2am on a Sunday PST.
Just to clarify for my own good - are you saying you expect there to be a GM on each server watching WC 24/7 in case someone asks for help?[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Thanks for the sig Ophida0 -
Indiri - Archosaur wrote: »Also, on a somewhat unrelated topic but relevant to the "no one listening" part, why don't we have GMs on Archosaur? If anyone world chats or anything else for a GM the only response we get is a whisper or other world chats saying "They don't exist". Again, very disheartening...
not just archo, no GM's on HL ever, no mattr what time you try.0 -
FatherTed - Dreamweaver wrote: »I saw someone flip out cause they couldn't get a GM response from a WC request once . . . it was at 2am on a Sunday PST.
Just to clarify for my own good - are you saying you expect there to be a GM on each server watching WC 24/7 in case someone asks for help?
I know single players that charge in a DAY enough to staff "glorified game players" for an entire week 24 hours a day.
They don't, why? Because PW has become a cheap money making scheme.
PW has become a Yugo"Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory.
Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat." ~Sun Tzu
"Lennox Lewis, I'm coming for you man. My style is impetuous. My defense is impregnable, and I'm just ferocious. I want your heart. I want to eat his children. Praise be to Allah!"
~Iron Mike Tyson Enrage.omgforum.net
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
You know there very well could be a company policy NOT to respond to requests in WC. TBH were I in their position that would be the case. For every real issue people WC for help with I'd wager there are 20 non-issues.
That said, a vast improvement to the GM live chat feature would certainly help.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Thanks for the sig Ophida0 -
frankieraye wrote: »The official response is on page 1, and it states that it's far too early to tell whether the changes in this patch will make the game better or worse. The devs do not work all day to ruin the game, so I think this patch deserves a fair shake before we come to an accurate conclusion.
Making the game better or worse is a matter of how well the players enjoy it. In case you haven't noticed, nearly everyone is unanimously saying the change SUCKS. Yes the developers worked hard to make the change and I am sure they didn't want to ruin the game. They are developers, they have little say in what their bosses tell them to do. It's your marketing, sales, other business areas that made this decision. The patch deserves nothing even remotely close to a fair shake. It's PURE ****. You know it and we know it.
Look at it this way frankieraye, all these posts are from people who care about the game. This is your loyal customer base speaking. Your company has made a very stupid decision and we're trying to help the company understand that and fix it.0 -
FatherTed - Dreamweaver wrote: »Money spent on packs stays in the system - it's traded between one player and another. Short of the AH gold trader fee, no money leaves the system. Every 2 best luck tokens, however creates 10m new coin in the system.
Ah ok good point.0
This discussion has been closed.
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