PVP in SP

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear

Since the GMs are now enforcing the "interrup game play" part of the TOS on the PVP servers, it makes it far safer and easier to PVP on a PVE server. You can pk anywhere you want, since the other party had to aggree upfront to pvp, since they had to go white.

I hope PW does not follow the path of countless other games that used the "interrupt the normal flow of the game" and pretty much killed pvp (no pun intended). PKing, by its own definition interrupts normal game play, since you get killed.....

The only way for a person to be pked 10 times by the same player is for that person to keep coming back, since I am not sure there is a single place where you revive in town and it is not a safezone. So, isn't the fact that the player keeps coming back a sign they are willing to get killed? I know some places you have quests to do, but, unless they are a cultivation quest, where you do need them to get higher skills, all other quests are optional, right?

eatwithspoons

The bigger question is, if it's not to interrupt game play, why would anyone repeatedly PK someone 20 levels(or more) lower than themselves?

RedsRose - Lost City

eatwithspoons wrote: »

Bear in mind that playing on a PVP server means that you acknowledge the risks. If you are actively participating in PK then it is likely that you are not being harassed.

That is the thing...seems though more and more people "dun wanna be pk'd! I'm gonna get you banned. I am sending a ticket right now"

<----Blood Red b:surrender

I know the risks and knew them the second I turned level 30. I was a runner, although Clerics are SLOW so never really got too far b:chuckle

It is the "possibility" of people complaining and getting once open zones now closed to PK because they "cannot get something done."

But where is the definition of "harassment"? (I am not trying to be a pain...)

One person can say that they were being harassed because they were happily standing in outside West District talking and then died. Would be be too much to assume that to them there "game-play" was interrupted?

IMO --> It is a tough thing because some of these situations are not black and white. And for those in SP pk'ing and then all of a sudden banned...where was the announcement...many found out bc of the bans, once issued, and from those of us who are on the forums.

/endrant b:cute

eatwithspoons wrote: »

The bigger question is, if it's not to interrupt game play, why would anyone repeatedly PK someone 20 levels(or more) lower than themselves?

Although I think this is a lame thing to do....some people (those being pk;d) think it is funny and I have even seen those who refuse to get out of the way of a guild PvP war and get caught in aoes but they come back.

Boredom, dares, people run there mouths, boredom, person being pk'd lets them to go red...Tons of reasons.

Not condoning any one action, but there is not a "solid" answer nor a "solid" way to make everyone happy on this.

drjiggle

Why is this such a problem for people? Is it really a hardship for you that you can only harass level 30 noobs in Silver Pool and Hidden Orchid but not Heaven's Tear? Does it really cramp your style that much to kill them outside Secret Passage before they enter instead of inside? Does your level 90 barbarian with cleric buffs really have such a difficult time killing level 40's that you can only do it while they're talking to an NPC?

I can see why some people may disagree with the decision, but is this really the biggest problem you can find with the game? Seriously?

RedsRose - Lost City

drjiggle wrote: »

Why is this such a problem for people? Is it really a hardship for you that you can only harass level 30 noobs in Silver Pool and Hidden Orchid but not Heaven's Tear? Does it really cramp your style that much to kill them outside Secret Passage before they enter instead of inside? Does your level 90 barbarian with cleric buffs really have such a difficult time killing level 40's that you can only do it while they're talking to an NPC?

I can see why some people may disagree with the decision, but is this really the biggest problem you can find with the game? Seriously?

No.....more of making a point for all levels who PvP.

I personally am not advocating for any side....I like to argue and point out alternate ways of thinking from several points of view.

PvP is PvP....rather simple.

Aadi - Lost City

drjiggle wrote: »

Why is this such a problem for people? Is it really a hardship for you that you can only harass level 30 noobs in Silver Pool and Hidden Orchid but not Heaven's Tear? Does it really cramp your style that much to kill them outside Secret Passage before they enter instead of inside? Does your level 90 barbarian with cleric buffs really have such a difficult time killing level 40's that you can only do it while they're talking to an NPC?

I can see why some people may disagree with the decision, but is this really the biggest problem you can find with the game? Seriously?

I believe it's more of a "where does it end" sort of thing.

It's easy to say "Don't PK in Secret Passage" and be done with it, but it worries people because it's just as easy to add "Okay, now don't PK in Secret Passage or Heaven's Tear", then it could be changed to "Don't PK in any areas more than 10 levels below your area", and eventually PvP might be very limited.

It's less of the particular area than the idea of how free open PvP actually is.

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

eatwithspoons wrote: »

The bigger question is, if it's not to interrupt game play, why would anyone repeatedly PK someone 20 levels(or more) lower than themselves?

Maybe some pple mistake a PvP server for being a Griefing server :P

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear

drjiggle wrote: »

Why is this such a problem for people? Is it really a hardship for you that you can only harass level 30 noobs in Silver Pool and Hidden Orchid but not Heaven's Tear? Does it really cramp your style that much to kill them outside Secret Passage before they enter instead of inside? Does your level 90 barbarian with cleric buffs really have such a difficult time killing level 40's that you can only do it while they're talking to an NPC?

I can see why some people may disagree with the decision, but is this really the biggest problem you can find with the game? Seriously?

The problem is, it starts with SP, than it sets a precedent.

You can be sure, that more places will be added to the "no pking" list sooner or later, as people submit tickets with screenshots and say their game play was being interrupted, and them they can point to SP Bans as an example.

You see, this is not about griefing, everyone agrees that griefing is bad (well, most people), this is about making a all location pvp-free at risk of ban.

We already have regulated PKing in PVE servers. Sooner or later, PVE servers will be the only place to have open PKing.

RedsRose - Lost City

Aadi - Lost City wrote: »

I believe it's more of a "where does it end" sort of thing.

It's easy to say "Don't PK in Secret Passage" and be done with it, but it worries people because it's just as easy to add "Okay, now don't PK in Secret Passage or Heaven's Tear", then it could be changed to "Don't PK in any areas more than 10 levels below your area", and eventually PvP might be very limited.

It's less of the particular area than the idea of how free open PvP actually is.

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »

The problem is, it starts with SP, than it sets a precedent.

You can be sure, that more places will be added to the "no pking" list sooner or later, as people submit tickets with screenshots and say their game play was being interrupted, and them they can point to SP Bans as an example.

You see, this is not about griefing, everyone agrees that griefing is bad (well, most people), this is about making a all location pvp-free at risk of ban.

^^ This ^^

And GRATZ on 80 b:cute

Saveless - Harshlands

eatwithspoons wrote: »

The bigger question is, if it's not to interrupt game play, why would anyone repeatedly PK someone 20 levels(or more) lower than themselves?

'cause you get tired/bored watching your enemy stay in SZ. Then you watch this little low level stroll on by and then you think "Oh hey, I'll 1 shot you since you think you can just walk on by and think you're safe." It happens when pk is completely dead.

eatwithspoons wrote: »

People who get banned tend to want to tell their story in a way that downplays their own actions, if someone is claiming to have been banned for "nothing" or for "PKing one person" they are most likely not giving you the whole story.

Oh and for that, yeah....a lot do tend to do that. But, there are quite a bit of cases where it has actually happened to being banned for no apparent reason.

Aadi - Lost City

RedsRose - Lost City wrote: »

^^ This ^^

And GRATZ on 80 b:cute

Thanks b:victory

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

'cause you get tired/bored watching your enemy stay in SZ. Then you watch this little low level stroll on by and then you think "Oh hey, I'll 1 shot you since you think you can just walk on by and think you're safe." It happens when pk is completely dead.

When pple go overboard with that they usually have a nice tea time with the authorities b:thanks PWI is just doing the same thing on a lighter note. Just because you CAN doesnt mean to abuse it to the fullest.

Oh and for that, yeah....a lot do tend to do that. But, there are quite a bit of cases where it has actually happened to being banned for no apparent reason.

And there are most likely a whopping load more of cases with pple who dont tell the whole story. Remember most of these things are settled in the background. The 'mistake' bans that seem frequent are quite possibly because these pple are angry and vocal about it, whereas REAL cases are argued in the shadows.

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drjiggle

The way I see it, there are several fundamental differences between the Secret Passage and other areas of the game that make it more reasonable to put limits on PKing there.

In SP, you can't fly. You can't sneak away and come from a different direction. You can't get your friends to help you use interesting tactics like surrounding the pker or leading him into a trap. And so on ...

In SP, there's only one way in. Once one or a few high levels set themselves up in that first room, there's pretty much no way low levels are going to fight their way past. Maybe if you're lucky enough to know some helpful high level players, they might come help you, but if you're J-random Noob just starting out with your level 30 wizard, you're pretty much out of luck. Try again tomorrow.

Same thing goes for Heaven's Tear. Most people there carefully wait until they see someone talk to the NPC. Once you're in that dialog, you're helpless. That isn't PVP. PVP means player versus player. If the other guy can't fight back, it's player versus absolutely nothing at all.

The better question, IMHO, isn't whether PKing in SP and Heaven's Tear is good or bad but rather, if it's bad, why don't they just make them safe zones and be done with it instead of banning people for something that the game tacitly encourages?

Saveless - Harshlands

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

When pple go overboard with that they usually have a nice tea time with the authorities b:thanks PWI is just doing the same thing on a lighter note. Just because you CAN doesnt mean to abuse it to the fullest.

There are many solutions as to fixing it. Change SP into a SZ, the lowbies can go back another time...etc etc etc.

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

On a side not maybe you should stop that rainbow its really hard to quote on you

Don't quote me then, just say:

Saveless:

Simple as that. :)

MagicHamsta - Lost City

Saveless - Harshlands wrote: »

'cause you get tired/bored watching your enemy stay in SZ. Then you watch this little low level stroll on by and then you think "Oh hey, I'll 1 shot you since you think you can just walk on by and think you're safe." It happens when pk is completely dead.



Oh and for that, yeah....a lot do tend to do that. But, there are quite a bit of cases where it has actually happened to being banned for no apparent reason.

drjiggle wrote: »

The way I see it, there are several fundamental differences between the Secret Passage and other areas of the game that make it more reasonable to put limits on PKing there.

In SP, you can't fly. You can't sneak away and come from a different direction. You can't get your friends to help you use interesting tactics like surrounding the pker or leading him into a trap. And so on ...

In SP, there's only one way in. Once one or a few high levels set themselves up in that first room, there's pretty much no way low levels are going to fight their way past. Maybe if you're lucky enough to know some helpful high level players, they might come help you, but if you're J-random Noob just starting out with your level 30 wizard, you're pretty much out of luck. Try again tomorrow.

Same thing goes for Heaven's Tear. Most people there carefully wait until they see someone talk to the NPC. Once you're in that dialog, you're helpless. That isn't PVP. PVP means player versus player. If the other guy can't fight back, it's player versus absolutely nothing at all.

The better question, IMHO, isn't whether PKing in SP and Heaven's Tear is good or bad but rather, if it's bad, why don't they just make them safe zones and be done with it instead of banning people for something that the game tacitly encourages?

lol drjiggle. I seriously don't like how empty SP is. I loved it when it was full of reds when I was level 30-50 (I'd just ask a passing red if they wanted to help with my BH and 9/10 times I'd get a level 80+ or something. b:laugh
Also the only reason most of you guys die. *yes I actually observe the lowbies in SP because I was wondering what all the QQ was about.* is because most of you guys apparently lack a brain. I've got through SP dozens of times and I'd either go during a huge fight or right after a fight and get past just fine. I've only been targeted twice and the rest of the death were AOE attacks which I happened to get caught in. Total times i've died in SP since I was level 30: 4 times.
I've also just stood there for a hour or two a few times and haven't been killed. (before the pk ban was implemented it was a great way to meet high level people. (just talk to the ones PPKing instead of the ones RPKing. Easy to tell apart what with the high volume of QQing brainless lowbies tossing themselves into the fire when it's lit.)
xD

Yar I quoted Saveless because he's got an idea of when they pk passing lowbies. (WHEN THEY'RE BORED AND NOT FIGHTING.) Thats why you go during the fight (seriously no one is dumb enough to target a passing lowbie when theres an evenly matched person trying to smack em in the face) or right after the fight is over (although this probably doesn't work as well since they might just smack you for chi or something. although hasn't happened yet to me).
(^.^)'

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

Saveless - Harshlands wrote: »

There are many solutions as to fixing it. Change SP into a SZ, the lowbies can go back another time...etc etc etc.

That. Why its not safe zone is beyond me.

Don't quote me then, just say:

Saveless:

Simple as that. :)

Because there are some pple who actually only read whats on the same page and never look at prior quotes. Hard to refer to subjects expecially when its public not knowing what kind of response you will get from your answers from pple who dont read.

Saveless - Harshlands

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

Because there are some pple who actually only read whats on the same page and never look at prior quotes. Hard to refer to subjects expecially when its public not knowing what kind of response you will get from your answers from pple who dont read.

But but but but....it's pretty. ;(

Khalfani - Harshlands

eatwithspoons wrote: »

Oh yeah addition to that tl;dr: If you want to one shot lowbies, go kill oddfoots!

what about the Kun Kun?

Kniraven - Lost City

Khalfani - Harshlands wrote: »

what about the Kun Kun?

Pffft, that quest is supposed to be a pain. b:bye
So maybe KunKun lures you into some wandering PKers, that was his plan b:chuckle

bawksy

So now you can't kill lowbies and you can't kill high lvls because everyone is leveling inside an instance..

R.I.P pvp

BeingHope - Harshlands

mhmmm, its interesting how some people get away with it and others can't b:surrender But yeah, for some reason people don't PK me in there anymore rofl, used to be each time i went inside I got pked lol

RedsRose - Lost City

BeingHope - Harshlands wrote: »

mhmmm, its interesting how some people get away with it and others can't b:surrender But yeah, for some reason people don't PK me in there anymore rofl, used to be each time i went inside I got pked lol

Because it is not a bannable offense if you would have read entire topic b:chuckle

bawksy

RedsRose - Lost City wrote: »

Because it is not a bannable offense if you would have read entire topic b:chuckle

Don't worry all she cares for is to have her name on the threads even if what she has to say it's totally off topic.

Khalfani - Harshlands

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »

The only way for a person to be pked 10 times by the same player is for that person to keep coming back, since I am not sure there is a single place where you revive in town and it is not a safezone.

Placing the fault of PK on the victim is throwing a Red Herring . It's like saying that someone who was shot in an alley was his own fault because he was at the wrong place at the wrong time. It doesn't work that way. What would better be phrased to replace your justification for free PKs is that "The only way for a person to be pked 10 times by the same player is if for that person to find out that the PKer is griefing there.

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »

So, isn't the fact that the player keeps coming back a sign they are willing to get killed?

The fact that they are willing to come back is to brave through getting killed and see how far they can get done without PKers trying to kill them. They do not want to be PKed at all. Do you like to be PKed in the middle of a grind quest which is, like, all of them? As much as the next guy I'd bet.

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I know some places you have quests to do, but, unless they are a cultivation quest, where you do need them to get higher skills, all other quests are optional, right?

Okay, say for instance someone enters the game. Level 1, and does nothing but grind and does not do any quests at all, as opposed to another counterpart who does quests with the necessary grinds here and there to get by. Being in the game for quite some time, we know that quests gives a large amount of experience over a short period of time that is rewarded alogn with the grind time you have done. Wouldn't the natural choice for everyone be to quest? Level up to 30 over a period of one to three weeks as opposed to a month?

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I hope PW does not follow the path of countless other games that used the "interrupt the normal flow of the game" and pretty much killed pvp (no pun intended). PKing, by its own definition interrupts normal game play, since you get killed.....

Like spoons said,. By entering the PvP world, you acknowledge the risks of such. However, think of it in terms of profit and popularity. Utilitarianism. Sacrificing a bit of PvP, which is a small percentage of the game as opposed to questing at PvE which is the larger portion. So the normal flow of the game would definitely be the questing, and it is being interrupted. Refer to my response a few lines up (how questing is as opposed to safe grind).

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »

PKing, by its own definition interrupts normal game play, since you get killed.....

PKing doesn't interrupt normal game play if it is done once or twice. Because face it. It hardly is a bump if you get killed, go back and fight again. But Griefing which is the main subject of this thread is a complete blockade to normal gameplay. There's a huge difference to your claims.

Also, I'm curious. What is the PvP system of other games and how is it ruined by the 'don't interrupt' ToS?

RedsRose - Lost City

Khalfani - Harshlands wrote: »

Also, I'm curious. What is the PvP system of other games and how is it ruined by the 'don't interrupt' ToS?

PvP here in this game is NOTHING compared to other games.

You go try a few (which I will not mention) and then come back and you will realize the "simplicity" of PvP here.

Especially in the way it is tracked and how items/things are lost. Some games have much higher penalties ----> "Whenever they die, they will lost exp worn out eqmnt. + drop item + gold"

Just think about this --> Taken from a different "place" in regards to PvP:

"Many players take PvP too seriously. If you die, learn to laugh about it. Don't get bent out of shape about your attacker's dirty tactics, better connection, or item advantage. Just learn from your mistakes, and come back better prepared next time. If you want to be the best at PvP, it's a long, hard road. You must constantly re-evaluate your approach, and fine tune it until it can compete at a level that satisfies you."

HealHamsta - Lost City

RedsRose - Lost City wrote: »

PvP here in this game is NOTHING compared to other games.

You go try a few (which I will not mention) and then come back and you will realize the "simplicity" of PvP here.

Just think about this --> Taken from a different "place" in regards to PvP:

"Many players take PvP too seriously. If you die, learn to laugh about it. Don't get bent out of shape about your attacker's dirty tactics, better connection, or item advantage. Just learn from your mistakes, and come back better prepared next time. If you want to be the best at PvP, it's a long, hard road. You must constantly re-evaluate your approach, and fine tune it until it can compete at a level that satisfies you."

Yar me was slightly saddened there is no RvR in PWI but it's still a great game.
and PvP is very very simple here there isn't really any actual coordination required/involved it's more like:
*you see a person you don't like*
*you knock em down*
*person calls other person for back up who then knocks you down*
*you do the same*
*presto large battle*
*battle ends*
*everyones happy and/or sad...life goes on*
b:victory

I lurve getting pked (it's a great way to teleport for free and at no cost also you still have your telestone err I mean town portal skill.)

Eternalnub - Heavens Tear

its not nice that lvl 50-100 ppl kill lvl30 peeps and keep camping cuz of pvp ranking ^^

prof

HealHamsta - Lost City wrote: »

*everyones happy and/or sad...life goes on*

are we both playing perfect world? I'm use to seeing "WTF prof" on world chat, often followed by reasons why I'm terrible at this game, life, and how I'll never have a real girl.

RedsRose - Lost City

Eternalnub - Heavens Tear wrote: »

its not nice that lvl 50-100 ppl kill lvl30 peeps and keep camping cuz of pvp ranking ^^

PvP ranking does not apply to those more then 30 levels from your own.

You will not get credit and the same goes for multiple killings.

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear

Khalfani - Harshlands wrote: »

Also, I'm curious. What is the PvP system of other games and how is it ruined by the 'don't interrupt' ToS?

You have answered that yourself with your replies to my comment.

How do you define interrupt game play? As i said, if you do something that stops what I was doing (like killing me), you are interrupting my game play, which means, I can submit a ticket. Harrassement is a different line item on the TOS, and it may or may not be applicable at the same time as interrupted game play.

This will apply if a high level kills low level players once or fifty times, same if the pking between 2 high level players. As long as one was caught of guard, and the pvp engagement was not schedulled in advance, one party can claim that the pking is interrupting his normal game play.

In one game I played, the "game interruption" force players to have to ask the other party if they would mind if they attacked them before pking.....

Most pvp based games I have played, that have used the "interrupted game play" have had to changed the wording and no longer use that, instead they use the harrassement violation. Usualy to for an harrasement violation to be acted on, the offending player would have to have chased you around the map killing you.