Bms vs. Barbs -Major Respect Lack
Comments
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Its true that BMs wont tank as good as barbs cuz we dont have grabbing aggro skills or skills such as invoke of the spirits, but saying that we wont b able to hold aggro is stupid. I can pull off aggro from a barb by simply switching to my tt90 zerk axes, if BMs dont hold back on DD, the barb would'nt b able to hold aggro w/o spamming their aggro skills, they'll never manage to hold off aggro from a BM of the same lvl, we got more damage power (since barbs r vit built for hp, damage isnt as gr8 as BMs neither is their crit rate high as most BMs). plus we can exceed the def of a barb using our marrow buffs. and as for pvp we're just as good as any other pvp class, in TWs most ppl would get screwed over if it were'nt for our chain stuns. So whoever's dissing BMs, get ur facts rite b4 coming to a conclusion >_>0
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Nicoal - Dreamweaver wrote: »pure dex archer here with 3300hp and i tank fb51 solo. i'm level 89 but that doesn't matter. lol i've tanked everything up to fb69 the last two bosses, which i am yet to do.
yup ofc 89 archer can tank fb51, heck even lv 73 archer can tank those bosses as long cleric spam heal and purify b:laugh b:cute[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
QQ
I got demon quickshot at last b:victoryb:thanks0 -
Telarith - Sanctuary wrote: »A barb can only keep aggro by spamming his aggro skills, and even then will lose aggro to a same level BM if they don't hold back. In fact, only way a good BM loses aggro, is if a barb uses their aggro grab skills. If they stick with normal damage dealing ones, they will never take aggro. And a good BM won't be losing aggro to any other DD, unless there is a serious equipment power difference.
A BM will always lose aggro to an archer or mage of the same level or even a few levels lower... even if they both hold back a little. BM spike damage is nothing compared to most other classes.I post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.0 -
Nasrath - Sanctuary wrote: »Its true that BMs wont tank as good as barbs cuz we dont have grabbing aggro skills or skills such as invoke of the spirits, but saying that we wont b able to hold aggro is stupid. If the barb isnt spamming their aggro skills, they'll never manage to hold off aggro from a BM of the same lvl, we got more damage power (since barbs r vit built for hp, damage isnt as gr8 as BMs). plus we can exceed the def of a barb using our marrow buffs. and as for pvp we're just as good as any other pvp class, in TWs most ppl would get screwed over if it were'nt for our chain stuns. So whoever's dissing BMs, get ur facts rite b4 coming to a conclusion >_>
... I steal aggro from barbs all the time, and thats without using my lvl 10 stream strike.
Also, a BM can easily use the genie skill alphamale and with altermarrows we can tank magic damage bosses much better than a barb can b:scorn
As for phy bosses, b:surrender yeah a barb is probably better. We can still get the job done though if it's needed b:cool
EDIT: tothe poster above me, I don't lose aggro to archers when I spam stream strike. Wizards I do though.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Kniraven - Lost City wrote: »... I steal aggro from barbs all the time, and thats without using my lvl 10 stream strike.
Must be a bunch of fail barbs. lol Actually there are quite a few... I was in bh69 the other day, a barb didn't have a clue, didn't cancel against polearm, didn't bite either. Another barb in HH didn't know how to turtle. lolI post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.0 -
Bladecutter - Sanctuary wrote: »lvl 94 fist bm losing aggro from a 65 wizzy? 2 options:
1) youre overpowered and you were hitting it for more than 11k each 2 secs
2) the bm fails at fists and decided to get lvl 1 claws for the job
How could I be overpowered? I am pure mag. That is what I was "meant" to be. I was meant to deal damage, and lots of it. There is a reason each squad can hold 6 members. Its b/c the ideal party holds 1 of each class. Not that another type of squad can't do the same job, but thats how it was meant to be. My wizard has crits over 20k. It takes me longer to cast than any class, but I hit hard. Very hard. I am just shocked that of all classes a wizard would be pointed out as being over powered. (I've kinda heard it all now)
BM was a random tank, however when a lvl 94 anything offers to tank a bh 51 you'd assume they could do the job. Except maybe a cleric or wizard. Although I think they might could do it too. Not the first bm I've pulled aggro from, sure to not be the last.
Was just stating why I liked barbs as tanks, not at all demeaning bm's or suggesting that any class/preference is fail. Every class has its strengths and weaknesses.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
I noe barb > Bm in tanking .... but if they dont spam flesh ream most time they would surely lose aggro to a same level BM . And when i tank ( BM ) when mostly of us are same levels no one can steal aggro from me b:victory unless a barb hits da boss with his aggro skills . And if the cleric is able heal us we can tank those bosses with no doubt b:laugh . So respect the BM's cuz they are not weak b:thanks0
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Kniraven - Lost City wrote: »... I steal aggro from barbs all the time, and thats without using my lvl 10 stream strike.
Also, a BM can easily use the genie skill alphamale and with altermarrows we can tank magic damage bosses much better than a barb can b:scorn
As for phy bosses, b:surrender yeah a barb is probably better. We can still get the job done though if it's needed b:cool
EDIT: tothe poster above me, I don't lose aggro to archers when I spam stream strike. Wizards I do though.
Any class would lose aggro 2 wizards, they have the highest dps among all the classes, and rebirths r the perfect example. even with barbs constantly spamming their aggro skills, wizards will b taking aggro every 10-15secs b:shocked0 -
Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »Must be a bunch of fail barbs. lol Actually there are quite a few... I was in bh69 the other day, a barb didn't have a clue, didn't cancel against polearm, didn't bite either. Another barb in HH didn't know how to turtle. lol
I have a 12% crit rate. 3% from gears. and I spike higher with my double sparked sword crits than an axe BM of same level ever will.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
i trust BMs can tank alot of bosses .. i know lots of BMs can do that.
only few bosses they can't tank them. and all my quests that needs bosses except BHs and some FBs i had BMs tanking them.
barbs are good too but not all barbs are smart and can protect the team b:angry
in all times i got killed in BHs was barbs fault b:surrender
so not every barb is worthy playing barb and have the title ( good tank ) ..
but all BMs i know they are able to tank without any problems .. and they can protect me b:cute
>> cleric :P
so be proud of urself and don't care of noobs thinking
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I would say that most have the idea that Barbs can get it done as they have tiger form and BMS don't.That doesn't mean that BM can't and they have better aoe damage.I saw this on bh doing fb39 as we were taking a barb through his fb39 and the BM was doing the tanking and taking out the mobs of coarse we did have veno/herc with us.
What the veno wasn't taking out the BM was ..Looking for a decent casual understanding Faction.0 -
I hate to say it, but if you're an archer/wiz and you have a BM tanking and you really can't keep from taking agro then you just have to sit it out or go unarmed. Sure, it might take a minute or two longer, but it's either that or go back to hunting barbs which might take indefinitely.
It annoys me when I'm in a bh or fb and we need a tank and I volunteer only to be told no, not possible, the wizzy/archer is gonna rob agro no matter what. In half cases the wiz/archer actually becomes the tank with the entire party thinking it's a good idea. They die, I'm now tank...unhealed cause the cleric is rezing the "tank"...I surivive, wiz goes back to tanking, dies and cycle repeats on and on. Usually the unhealed BM (me) is the only thing between a squad wipe. Why the heck is sitting it out so damn unthinkable? -.-
A lot of barbs don't know their job either. I tend to rob agro alot with multiple zerks, no skills, off 7x barbs, usually to get told by the party "stop robbing agro"
Random note...Stream strike sucks. Would be nice if we had a decent agro skill =/
I think in 95% of cases a decent hp-built BM would be as good a tank as an average barb. We have good defences, marrows, sutra. What makes a barb a really amazing and I admit superior tank is sheer agro holding ability.0 -
Best Aggro Skill a BM has is Genie's Alpha Male, as Stream Strike really does suck.
I mean BMs can tank things if they have to, but generally speaking, in terms of tanking ability, it goes:
1. Barbarian
2. Hercules
3. Blademaster0 -
As a cleric I personally hate Barbs as a tank 9/10 times, especially without a BM around. Barbs might have more hp but without the bm's defense buff its just squishy. Which in turn makes the clerics job of healing all that hp a lot of work. Its a lot easier to heal better defended low hp, than poorly defended high hp. Which I find funny when a barb whines when their hp charm ticks... yeah, healing all that poorly defended hp causes my mp charm to tick like crazy. And more often than barbs, bms are smart enough to have Tree of Protection on their genie for emergency situations. Barbs on the other hand are utterly convinced Clerics are their personal slaves* and they are gods and have no need for ToP. (*You so know I wanted to use something more vulgar)
Contrary to popular belief a Barb/BM is not always the best tank for the job either. For the 70's bh a Wizard -should- be the optimal tank. Having both high res and high DD people don't have to sit around waiting to avoid stealing agro. Unless they are a fail LA type. Pure clerics are next in line ;D0 -
I dunno what Barbarian you are talking about, but equally leveled and geared, a Barbarian in Tiger Form with the Shapeshifting Intensity Passive Buff should have the same Defense as a Blademaster. (Both their buffs give 60% Defense at Level 10)0
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SilentWisp - Heavens Tear wrote: »As a cleric I personally hate Barbs as a tank 9/10 times, especially without a BM around. Barbs might have more hp but without the bm's defense buff its just squishy. Which in turn makes the clerics job of healing all that hp a lot of work. Its a lot easier to heal better defended low hp, than poorly defended high hp. Which I find funny when a barb whines when their hp charm ticks... yeah, healing all that poorly defended hp causes my mp charm to tick like crazy. And more often than barbs, bms are smart enough to have Tree of Protection on their genie for emergency situations. Barbs on the other hand are utterly convinced Clerics are their personal slaves* and they are gods and have no need for ToP. (*You so know I wanted to use something more vulgar)
Contrary to popular belief a Barb/BM is not always the best tank for the job either. For the 70's bh a Wizard -should- be the optimal tank. Having both high res and high DD people don't have to sit around waiting to avoid stealing agro. Unless they are a fail LA type. Pure clerics are next in line ;D
This is all very true. Stream Strike however only sux compared to Barb aggroing moves. If I spam it I can keep aggro from an FAC or Archer easily. It's the wizards I can't keep it from and even barbs have trouble with that anyway.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
SilentWisp - Heavens Tear wrote: »...Barbs might have more hp but without the bm's defense buff its just squishy. Which in turn makes the clerics job of healing all that hp a lot of work. Its a lot easier to heal better defended low hp, than poorly defended high hp...
What barbs have you been running with? Def buff is an added bonus - it helps, but it shouldn't be essential. Although I have a guess.
"Did you level Shapeshifting Intensity?"
"No, I do less damage that way."
EDIT: Dammit, Falls beat me to it.0 -
Kephras - Heavens Tear wrote: »What barbs have you been running with? Def buff is an added bonus - it helps, but it shouldn't be essential. Although I have a guess.
"Did you level Shapeshifting Intensity?"
"No, I do less damage that way."
EDIT: Dammit, Falls beat me to it.
I guess that is the case.
Most barbs I know that are my level take more damage than I do [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Kniraven - Lost City wrote: »I guess that is the case. Most barbs I know that are my level take more damage than I do
That is because they have no Self Healing Skills, or Marrow Skills to adjust to the damage type. Also, I know sometimes clerics think I am not getting hit, but the fact is that my charm ticks so damned fast (Some Bosses in 1-Hit), that they don't even realized I just got hit.
But I will admit, BMs complain far less than Barbs do when it comes to tanking, because generally speaking, we are so used to getting battered by mobs, and are so happy to be tanking something in the stead of a Barb/Herc, that we don't complain. (We expect our charms to tick xD) 0 -
Falls - Sanctuary wrote: »That is because they have no Self Healing Skills, or Marrow Skills to adjust to the damage type.
Marrow, no, but don't forget Sunder. And unless the mobs are pure-caster (ex, Hercule) or channel invisibly (damn you, Vipenalt!), canceling properly will spare a barb a great deal of pain. So it's not just about damage type or healing.
Fail is fail. A player who knows their class will always be superior to one who doesn't.0 -
Kephras - Heavens Tear wrote: »Marrow, no, but don't forget Sunder. And unless the mobs are pure-caster (ex, Hercule) or channel invisibly (damn you, Vipenalt!), canceling properly will spare a barb a great deal of pain. So it's not just about damage type or healing.
Fail is fail. A player who knows their class will always be superior to one who doesn't.
Yeah, but tons of Stun beats the heck out of Sunder (On a day to day basis while grinding and such). And I suppose fist BMs get cancel too. And with my poleaxe I can randomly seal an opponent too. But I guess this is all too specific, we can both agree that Barbs waste far more charm than BMs do, so it is only natural that they would get *more* irritated when they don't get a timely heal from a cleric.0 -
Ah, I was thinking primarily of bosses (as per the topic of this thread being tanking). For grinding, that's a whole other kettle of fish.0
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Kniraven - Lost City wrote: »I have a 12% crit rate. 3% from gears. and I spike higher with my double sparked sword crits than an axe BM of same level ever will.
Why on earth do fist and pole BM's always have to take digs at Axe BM's and prove themselves superior. This thread isn't even about Axe BM's, it's about comparing tanking abilities with barbs... -.- I also fail to see how your double sparked sword crit is higher than the best possible double sparked axe zerk crit. You'd need more than double the average DPS...Barbs on the other hand are utterly convinced Clerics are their personal slaves* and they are gods and have no need for ToP. (*You so know I wanted to use something more vulgar)
Same as there are plenty of BM's who don't know their class (aoe BM's going crazy agro'ing 6 at once in fb's) there are also barbs who don't know thier class either. Lots of hp doesn't make you indestructible. In any tough tanking situation I go in with marrows, tree, crab jiaozi's, sutra and usually a charm in backup with a cleric healing on top.
But a decent barb is unbeatable. The thing I find myself is idiots who insist on having barbs to tank easy bosses, or venos only if they have hercs, usually have absolutely no idea how the game works and are total nubs. Squading with or helping these kind of people is sure to be a nightmare. Instead of getting annoyed at them, it's best to simply ignore them and stick with players who accept and respect your for the skill with which you handle your own class.Kephras - Heavens Tear wrote: »A player who knows their class will always be superior to one who doesn't.
/Thread0 -
LOL I don't deny that Barbarians are the best tanks, I said that a while ago. Its just that its hard to keep the painful experiences while grinding mobs/PvPing out of your mind when your charm ticks for another totally preventable 8K in a TT. Whereas a BMs Charm is fairly fresh after using a variety of trickery to avoid damage on a regular basis, so when my charm ticks in a Boss fight, I'm fine with it xD.
All I know, is that I've never seen a BM erupt in anger at a Cleric over a botched Boss Fight. The attitude is; "I had no business tanking that beast anyways xD."0 -
Personally i've been wondering this. Why are bms treated so poorly. One day im out farming and there's people who needed a bh51 tank badly. So on the third tele i decided to help them i am a 8x bm. Next thing you know the lead sees my class and kicks me from the squad. Where the hell is the respect?? Did they expect a barb or veno herc? They're lucky to have even gotten a tank. I want some of those people to post here why they look down on bms so much as unable to pvp or tank. 1st was the one where sword bms were no good until eventually the high ones started to own all the other classes easy and now alot of people are dissing bms as no good for tanks. Btw is this happening just on the harshland server? On a later note to all the noobs on harshlands server - since barb culti is broken for most new barbs who dont have tiger form and only one skill. Appreciate the help of bms. We dont havta help you get your quests done at all. Respect people cuz to raise a barbs phys def up to tank level you need both bm and cleric buffs. Barbs aint no tank class without us and if anyone says they rule pvp it's a lie. Bms wont die as fast as barbs proven fact i killed a demon barb while i was at level 81. Can someone give me a good reason why these these 5x 6x 7x noobs are all dissing bm class? They've played long enough they should've learned by now.
P.s. - Stevvo on harshlands plz redo your class/character. If you can't respect the class you even play than don't play it all thank you.
Well let me tell you something Brother.
Don't plan on helping anyone with BH.it's best to let the full squad do it who needs the fb bosses.
As for your class.there is no superior or inferior class.
A person is responsible for all that he is,whether in or out of game.
That guy probably didn't want help, and don't expect him to say please leave or something lie that.get real and stop whining about it.
As for my opinion Blademasters can tank ,but i just enjoy seeing BM'S whine about how their build is and all that.
In my opinion BM'S are the strongest class and a person with good keyboard skills would be a great BM in game.b:angryKnow your role &
Shut your Mouth &
Smell what The Dogg is cooking.
b:cool[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
I think BHs are a very good thing, it's pushing people of similar level together and forcing them to learn the ropes.
Well, it would be. But all too many of them whine and wine
Part of the problem, of course, is that if they don't know you it's very hard to get them to trust you. And if the tank isn't as good as they think they are (at both parts of the tanks job) - then the party probably wipes.
I still stand by my initial 'wtf' though. There probably are jobs an 8x bm can't perform. But there sure as heck aren't any in the 6x BH quests.0 -
Kniraven - Lost City wrote: »I have a 12% crit rate. 3% from gears. and I spike higher with my double sparked sword crits than an axe BM of same level ever will.
My point was, try to out-dps a mage, archer or cleric. It's NOT gonna happen.
My level 84 cleric tempest crit for 72k in bh with stacked amps. Try to get near that. >>I post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.0 -
Well I’ve read through this entire discussion and have come to the conclusion that this whole kicking from squad mess could have been avoided if you just did not "generously" volunteered to help with their BH.
My advice is to never ever help anyone you do not know, or is not in your faction. I myself learned that people are ungrateful when you try to help them.
If they really only want Barbs let them look for barbs and go on TT/FB/GV runs, in the long run you will stay sane.0 -
allrighty cut the bm pride...
Tanking isn't about making the most damage duh.
When a barb tanks all dds can make their best, using ulti skills etc.
Having the golden bell buff is not essential - passive in tiger + cleric buff is just enuf.
Now the skills... can bms cancel boss cast?lower defense?lower damage?
Barbs have also sunder, also ToP genie skill will make up for any fail cleric.
Bms are always good to have around as second tanker if anything goes wrong - dc,lag and so on.
Just to remind you lvl 80 aint ment tanking fb51 and lower bosses.Playing this barb i have tanked all my bosses and fbs with close to noeffrot.When i was running fb 39 with 70/80 lvl players i still hold my agro cause i spam my hate/agro skills(2 in tiger form).Yes my dmg sucks but thats why u have dds right?
Generaly speaking this game offers no variety in class built option.As i am trapped in tiger form for the rest of the game so are every other classes.If a bm wants to tank well make a barb.0 -
DRI - Dreamweaver wrote: »Now the skills... can bms cancel boss cast?lower defense?lower damage?
Yes BMs have all those skills. cancel boss cast = shadowless kick; lower defence = glacial spike; lower damage = Myriad Sword Stance b:scorn0
This discussion has been closed.
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