v182 Update discussion thread.

Alexeno - Sanctuary

King_Solomon - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Ladies, mind dueling in game instead?

but but but... i'm not dueling anyone b:cry (well, except the marketing department of PWE)


ps- i'm a guy b:shocked

GriffinJ - Harshlands

Hey spoons, I got a suggestion to calm some peoples nerves. When we manufacture stuff it has at the bottom of thing it says manufactured by so and so or when you get a quest item you cant improve them, just add a deal in the stuff that you get from the chest that stats it is UNTRADABLE meaning you CAN not trade it under any circumstances, it is UNBANKABLE meaning you cant bank it all you can really do is sale them for a HUGE price cut

RedsRose - Lost City

Falls - Sanctuary wrote: »

Numbers, numbers, numbers.

There are so many models because it is so well studied. Once again an appeal to ignorance.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance

"Commonly in an argument from personal incredulity or argument from ignorance, the speaker considers or asserts that something is false, implausible, or not obvious to them personally [PWI's Business Decisions] and attempts to use this gap in knowledge as "evidence" in favor of an alternative view of his or her choice. Examples of these fallacies are often found in statements of opinion which begin: "It is hard to see how...," "I cannot understand how...," or "it is obvious that..." (if "obvious" is being used to introduce a conclusion rather than specific evidence in support of a particular view)."

I am sorry that you cannot see things clearly (Black and White), it doesn't make your point that...What was your point?...That I shouldn't criticize the company?...Well...Whatever, it doesn't make it more correct.

b:sweat You are going in circles. And I am NOT sure how you can argue that business is a cut and dry unit.

I maintain my argument that IF it was everything would run the same way and in the same model.

You are basically saying that ALL businesses run ONE way and in the exact same way = Black and White. This is SO not the case in this world. You have yet to support your argument as I have supported mine. Take another business class and stop quoting from Wiki (one of the worst sources, one so bad that any reputable college professor will not even allow on any research/formal report). I used one link for Wiki for your benifit since you like the source so much.

So here: (my proof for you)

Business strategy is the plan of action that prescribes resource allocation and other activities for dealing with the environment and helping the organisation attain its goals (Daft, 2000: 240). The aim of strategy is to identify ways in which an organisation can outperform others(Difference in buisness). Strategy (different) therefore involves the creation, implementation and evaluation of purpose, goals, work activities and performance measures (Coulter, 1998: 361). Strategy is important as it gives organisations a sense of purpose and direction, helps coordinate the activities of people and functions and serves as a control device. Strategy is normally split into three levels- corporate, business and functional.Corporate-level strategy is concerned with the broad and more long-term questions of 'what business(es) are we in or do we want to be in and what do we want to do with these business(es)' (Coulter, 1998: 9). This is because all businesses are different in nature, even those in the same industry. Organizations may wish to undertake a strategy of stability if they have just completed a frenzied period of growth or their industry is in a period of rapid upheaval and the future is highly uncertain. Porter's generic competitive strategies approach proposes three strategies for outperforming other corporations in the same industry: differentiation, cost-leadership and focus (Wheelan and Hunger, 2000: 113).

Hmmmm....If ALL business was the same......would different businesses need different strategies to compete with?

** This is the end of my attempt. The point is: not all businesses are the same, run the same, function the same -- Meaning, business is NOT a black and white entity. They are all different in form and function. **

Darkjagans - Heavens Tear

EthikaII - Heavens Tear wrote: »

._." why couldn't this event have lasted 1 day, not even married couples have an anniversery a whole month ._.

I assume the big problem there would be that the rich or the ones who have a large amount of gold would buy the packs for themselves and gold will stay extremely high on that one day, which would be unfair for those that are in the process of waiting for the zen charge or those that simply can't afford extremely high gold prices as it's not exactly easy to earn 500k-1mil for a single gold in a day. This will of course again lead to a large number of complaints from people saying there wasn't enough time for them to buy the packs.

What we should be asking is why they didn't think more carefully before releasing such a box, they were able to modify the contents of the box, why couldn't they have removed the lunarglade equips or the TT-trade etc.

Divine_Death - Dreamweaver

Spoon, here's an idea. There are 44 pages of new posts so I hope I'm not repeating what someone has already said.

One of the main reasons people are mad is because high gold prices make the daily consumables such as charm, Guardian Angels and Teleacoustics less affordable and therefore, making many activities such as grind, Rebirth and TT farming less profitable if any at all. While Guardian Angels and Teleacoustics are obtainable with the tokens, GA require 9 tokens which sell for 15k each atm on DW. That's 135k per GA and about twice as what they were when gold were around 200k. The tokens at 15k each does bring down the price of Teleacustics to 13.5k each from what it use to be around 20k before this update. Someone suggested to have a NPC that sells charms for in game coins, like 400k each. While that might be good for the players, it's bad for PWE, since the consumables provide a steady income for PWE. A player could easily make 400k with one charm and would never have to buy charm from the CS again. So instead, what we could add to the items obtainable with tokens are golden HP and MP charms. If we set the tokens required to be between 20-30 per golden charm, charms will still be affordable regardless of the gold prices and PWE still make money from charms being consumed since they are only obtainable through CS still.

This idea, along with maybe the reduction of tokens required to obtain Guardian Angels could ease the burden on the non-cash players while let the gold market stay free. Sure, players will have to work twice as hard to buy gold if they want to get fashion, mounts and etc. but those are mostly "wants".

EthikaII - Heavens Tear

Darkjagans - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I assume the big problem there would be that the rich or the ones who have a large amount of gold would buy the packs for themselves and gold will stay extremely high on that one day, which would be unfair for those that are in the process of waiting for the zen charge or those that simply can't afford extremely high gold prices as it's not exactly easy to earn 500k-1mil for a single gold in a day. This will of course again lead to a large number of complaints from people saying there wasn't enough time for them to buy the packs.

What we should be asking is why they didn't think more carefully before releasing such a box, they were able to modify the contents of the box, why couldn't they have removed the lunarglade equips or the TT-trade etc.

fine 2 days ? this is day 2..<.< and quite frankly those would be wwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyy smaller complaints then whats going on now.

Darkjagans - Heavens Tear

EthikaII - Heavens Tear wrote: »

fine 2 days ? this is day 2..<.<

I would've preferred 0
This anniversary would've been better off without this pack, the most we would've probably seen is a few days of "Why is there no event?!" which can be easily solved with a simple in-game event; Picture Hunt, spoons? :P

Heck, I would've been happy if they just fixed the numerous bugs for the anniversary.

lesspewpewmoreqq

Divine_Death - Dreamweaver wrote: »

One of the main reasons people are mad is because high gold prices make the daily consumables such as charm, Guardian Angels and Teleacoustics less affordable and therefore, making many activities such as grind, Rebirth and TT farming less profitable if any at all. While Guardian Angels and Teleacoustics are obtainable with the tokens, GA require 9 tokens which sell for 15k each atm on DW. That's 135k per GA and about twice as what they were when gold were around 200k. The tokens at 15k each does bring down the price of Teleacustics to 13.5k each from what it use to be around 20k before this update. Someone suggested to have a NPC that sell charms for in game coins, like 400k each. While that might be good for the players, it's bad for PWE, since the consumables provides a steady income for PWE. A player could easily make 400k with one charm and would never have to buy charm from the CS again. So instead, what we could add to the items obtainable with tokens are golden HP and MP charms. If we set the tokens required to be between 20-30 per golden charm, charms will still be affordable regardless of the gold prices and PWE still make money from charms being consumed since they are only obtainable through CS still.

You just have no idea do you? Gold isn't the main reason why people are mad. The economy going to the s*** house is only temporary. A month might seem like a long time but it will come back down. Why not take a step back and look at the end game items that they are basically throwing to the highest bidders. But, oh no... charms are way up in price, how can this beeeeeee. Forget the fact that a lvl20 is running around with a lunar bow in their inv!

Falls - Sanctuary

Don't lose track of where this started.

RedsRose - Lost City wrote: »

b:sweat You are going in circles. And I am NOT sure how you can argue that business is a cut and dry unit.

Simple, I presented a case, for what I thought PWI was doing as a business. Then I suggested why I thought they were doing it. rsin or something argued me, and you tagged along.

Except that you didn't argue that PWI might be doing something else for another reason. No-No, you tried to argue that it was impossible to know. I levied the claim twice now of an argument from ignorance, both times it was ignored. So let me put it to you like this: How do you know that I do not know what PWI's Business people are thinking when I apply my own Business Knowledge and Logic?

[If your answer is, because it is too complicated to know, I will once again refer you to the logical fallacy. Any other answer, I may accept]

RedsRose - Lost City wrote: »

You are basically saying that ALL businesses run ONE way and in the exact same way = Black and White. This is SO not the case in this world. You have yet to support your argument as I have supported mine.

Yes, every business man studies how to run a business. He then applies his knowledge to his circumstances. Can you disprove this? Can you disprove that they all run to maximize profit?

RedsRose - Lost City wrote: »

Take another business class and stop quoting from Wiki (one of the worst sources, one so bad that any reputable college professor will not even allow on any research/formal report). I used one link for Wiki for your benifit since you like the source so much.

Don't resort to personal insults [ad hominem] since they don't make an argument. You question the validity of definitions on Wikipedia? (I will find you another source if you do)

RedsRose - Lost City wrote: »

So here: (My Proof for you)

Business strategy is the plan of action that prescribes resource allocation and other activities for dealing with the environment and helping the organisation attain its goals (Daft, 2000: 240). The aim of strategy is to identify ways in which an organisation can outperform others(Difference in buisness). Strategy (different) therefore involves the creation, implementation and evaluation of purpose, goals, work activities and performance measures (Coulter, 1998: 361). Strategy is important as it gives organisations a sense of purpose and direction, helps coordinate the activities of people and functions and serves as a control device. Strategy is normally split into three levels- corporate, business and functional.Corporate-level strategy is concerned with the broad and more long-term questions of 'what business(es) are we in or do we want to be in and what do we want to do with these business(es)' (Coulter, 1998: 9). This is because all businesses are different in nature, even those in the same industry. Organizations may wish to undertake a strategy of stability if they have just completed a frenzied period of growth or their industry is in a period of rapid upheaval and the future is highly uncertain. Porter's generic competitive strategies approach proposes three strategies for outperforming other corporations in the same industry: differentiation, cost-leadership and focus (Wheelan and Hunger, 2000: 113).

Hmmmm....If ALL business was the same......would different businesses need different strategies to compete with?

** This is the end of my attempt. The point is: not all businesses are the same, run the same, function the same -- Meaning, business is NOT a black and white entity. They are all different in form and function. **

My other point long ago is that all successful businesses are run to maximize profit. You have yet to show me a counter-example, nothing in there said otherwise. So in this respect, yes all businesses function the same way. Black and White.

Oh and BTW, the quote in red xD, it starts with *may*, another option is to sell out.

You seem hung up on the word different. As if any difference disproved the essential similarity. (Profit)

RedsRose - Lost City

Poison - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I know several people buy things just to be different. As many AnnyHounds I saw last night those people won't be satisfied with the free mount. Anyone who didn't have a mount and got a free one was never going to buy a mount anyway... Having "even faster" mounts is just going to go right back into the endless circle of someone complaining because big spending cash shoppers get to have faster mounts...

This is so very true. I have heard numerous people unhappy with there FREE mount.

RedsRose - Lost City wrote: »

** This is the end of my attempt. The point is: not all businesses are the same, run the same, function the same -- Meaning, business is NOT a black and white entity. They are all different in form and function. **

Going in circles is dizzying and I am tried. Gratz..I am handing you the win, since there is no getting to you. Think businesses are all the same in functionality...Lol...fine so be it. You failed to thoroughly read what I stated as proof and in turn provided none of your own. That, or you just want to "win" and will not look into the state of how things in this world run. Governments as all "businesses," however they do not all function the same in many aspects. BUT if you think they all run the same then so be it...b:surrender I will concede....wasting my forums time on business debates...LOL

*waves white flag* You can win...I stated I was done.

Falls - Sanctuary

RedsRose - Lost City wrote: »

Going in circles is dizzying and I am tried. Gratz..I am handing you the win, since there is no getting to you. Think businesses are all the same in functionality...Lol...fine so be it. You failed to thoroughly read what I stated as proof and in turn provided none of your own. That, or you just want to "win" and will not look into the state of how things in this world run. Governments as all "businesses," however they do not all function the same in many aspects. BUT if you think they all run the same then so be it...b:surrender I will concede....wasting my forums time on business debates...LOL

*waves white flag* You can win...I stated I was done.

Arguments aren't about winning or losing. They're about learning =/.

I did read what you post, you are resorting to personal insult again.

If you claim I am going in circles, show me where.

And in all honesty if that is the way an argument ends, then no one wins.

Edit: And just because you pull out of an argument, doesn't mean it goes away.

blindeyesniper

PWI is a business and all they're doing is trying to maximize their profit. All businesses do this. They may not have the same function but in the end, it's all about how much money they're making and how much more they can make. The whole free zen thing is an investment. Maybe there stands a chance that PWI may lose money from that promotion but there must also be a good chance of profit in doing so or else they wouldn't be doing it.

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973

This sale would have been great as a coin sink in a game whose economy is already bloated by coins from the coin chests.

There should have been an NPC where you pay 500k coin and get out an anniversary pack.

Alot of you might think thats what you are doing now when you buy gold but that is not the case. When you buy gold the coin goes to another player and the gold goes away. That increases the demand for gold and since the tokens can be used to buy 10m coin notes it actually increases the supply of coins which drives up the price of gold.

Paying 500k coin actually drains coin from the economy totally! To get lots of coin cash shoppers would have to lower their prices to sell gold and with more demand for coin the coin people have that they worked for would be more valuable and prices for everything else would go down.

What this game needed was a coin sink, what it got was a gold sink.

Kuschel - Lost City

eatwithspoons wrote: »

Poison wins this round, what my statement meant was that every item in the box isn't necessarily game breaking, which is why I asked people to tell me about the ones that they feel were. Makeup Scrolls, for example, are not the subject of the box controversy. Sorry if I was not more clear but that's what I meant b:victory

The ones I spent 2 weeks for to get a fraction of the item and in a day I see 4 of them.

The boots and the helm used for trading for the Wraith Spirit / Eyes items.

All the other items that are legendary, Lv 95+, Grade 14+ stuff.

We spent so long working for them and supporting the game, and then they're just being tossed into the game where players are required to give 0 effort, and walk away with the same thing our guild spent months farming.

It's a new kinda low I haven't seen. Amazing business strategy to the people without the in game resources to farm these items, but for the people who cared more about the game itself, not just how to buy cash shop and work from there, there WAS a distinct line between the EQ on those players and the ones on the people who worked.

Who had the first +12? CS users.
Who had the first GV beat? Who had the first CV bow? Players who cared about the game.

The unfair part is when the line is only crossed for 1 side. CS users now have access to everything with a click of a button, us players that worked for it all have what...? Access to dragon orbs through the same places we farmed? Where's my +12 for doing nothing?

That's just the major concern, I don't care what other people think, if they're in support of these boxes it's because they can afford to buy them and buy their way to the top and not have to do anything along the way. Look at the major chunk of players who couldn't and who are still on top, going, going, gone.

Falls - Sanctuary

blindeyesniper wrote: »

PWI is a business and all they're doing is trying to maximize their profit. All businesses do this.

LOL? ORLY?

*Starts to argue opposite point for the sake of being contentious*

Nah, I kid xD.

Divine_Death - Dreamweaver

lesspewpewmoreqq wrote: »

You just have no idea do you? Gold isn't the main reason why people are mad. The economy going to the s*** house is only temporary. A month might seem like a long time but it will come back down. Why not take a step back and look at the end game items that they are basically throwing to the highest bidders. But, oh no... charms are way up in price, how can this beeeeeee. Forget the fact that a lvl20 is running around with a lunar bow in their inv!

You can keep QQ about end-game items lesspewpewmoreqq, but what's done is already done. You can't just take those items back since things have moved through trade. I'm trying to come up with DOABLE ideas that can recover some of the damage and all you can do is QQ and bite people's head off for trying to help?

lesspewpewmoreqq wrote: »

But, oh no... charms are way up in price, how can this beeeeeee. Forget the fact that a lvl20 is running around with a lunar bow in their inv!

Oh noes, a lvl 20 who won't be able to use the Lunar bow for another year haz it!!! ZOMG why PW god why?

lesspewpewmoreqq wrote: »

You just have no idea do you? Gold isn't the main reason why people are mad.

It might not be the reason YOU are mad, since you are too busy QQ-ing about end-game gears. But mind taking a poll and see which issue people care more about? And did I SAY that it's fine that end-game gears are handed out? Since that's already been addressed and Spoon is already aware of it, I didn't bother to mention. I followed this thread from page 1-100 yesterday and is coming up with things that people haven't thought of instead of wasting room QQ-ing the same thing about end-game gears. My bad?

EthikaII - Heavens Tear

Question xD if gold is now 300k+ on ht and my nein was 50 gold when it came out? xD doe sthat mean its worth 15 mil now x D?b:surrenderb:shutup

Darksylph - Heavens Tear

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

What this game needed was a coin sink, what it got was a gold sink.

I said this numerous times prior to the event, around the time of jolly jones. I said it again around post 1000 +- of this thread. The game marketters/economists are willing to destroy the game to make a few quick dollars. As the famous proverb goes "They're penny wise & pound foolish" (english pound, so translates to dollar for our language).

Redmenace - Heavens Tear

Falls - Sanctuary wrote: »

Numbers, numbers, numbers.

There are so many models because it is so well studied. Once again an appeal to ignorance.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance

"Commonly in an argument from personal incredulity or argument from ignorance, the speaker considers or asserts that something is false, implausible, or not obvious to them personally [PWI's Business Decisions] and attempts to use this gap in knowledge as "evidence" in favor of an alternative view of his or her choice. Examples of these fallacies are often found in statements of opinion which begin: "It is hard to see how...," "I cannot understand how...," or "it is obvious that..." (if "obvious" is being used to introduce a conclusion rather than specific evidence in support of a particular view)."

I am sorry that you cannot see things clearly (Black and White), it doesn't make your point that...What was your point?...That I shouldn't criticize the company?...Well...Whatever, it doesn't make it more correct.

Neither of you *know* what PW's plans or intentions are.

But you are the only one quoting the definition of "Argument from Ignorance".

In *my* opinion, that makes you a complete jerk.

RedMenace
\waiting for the wikipedia definition of "jerk" to be posted, in your defense
\\given up waiting for polite discussion, and "agreeing to disagree"
\\\Nice whaargarbl, I'l give you a 3/10

Maiya - Lost City

EthikaII - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Question xD if gold is now 300k+ on ht and my nein was 50 gold when it came out? xD doe sthat mean its worth 15 mil now x D?b:surrenderb:shutup

Certain items are usually immune to gold price and seem to have some other pricing to them.

Falls - Sanctuary

Redmenace - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Neither of you *know* what PW's plans or intentions are.

But you are the only one quoting the definition of "Argument from Ignorance".

In *my* opinion, that makes you a complete jerk.

1. Your point was to insult?

2. You too are making an argument from ignorance that I could not know how a business will react, or how their decisions are made. That is the point. Obviously, I don't know all their circumstances. But I can make a practical assessment of the situation. Just as everyday I reach the practical conclusion that gravity will continue to function, even though there is nothing telling me so.

So you can argue me logically and practically or you can continue to say; "You don't know nothing, and that can't be right" --- Argument From Ignorance.

MystiMonk - Sanctuary

Brael - Dreamweaver wrote: »

You cover all those expenses with a normal job. I said quit pw and get a second job, that way once you have a few thousand from it you can quit and get your PW items. It's faster that way with how they have things set up. It's also way less fun and defeats the purpose of playing a game since the best way to play it is to not play it, but give them money for that privilege.

You shouldn't really have to get a second jop to get items from the cashop.

The market has been flooded with items over the last 2 months and it is time to hold off untill there is an increase in players.This game needs more players to buy the excessive amount of items out there.

Zanixx - Heavens Tear

p.s. fireworks glitched. going off on my feet not in the air. not a complaint. but can someone tell me one good thing about this patch. lmaob:laugh

Darkjagans - Heavens Tear

Zanixx - Heavens Tear wrote: »

p.s. fireworks glitched. going off on my feet not in the air. not a complaint. but can someone tell me one good thing about this patch. lmaob:laugh

afaik there is one "firework" that just sparks around the feet which is normal

EthikaII - Heavens Tear

Zanixx - Heavens Tear wrote: »

p.s. fireworks glitched. going off on my feet not in the air. not a complaint. but can someone tell me one good thing about this patch. lmaob:laugh

well there is that one thi.... oh wait nvm

oh well guess sense everyone is getting all this great armor then needed to farm for in first place. that kind of cancels out games idea for TT instance and should go ahead and knock BB and RB out now while your at it can't afford charms to even do so b:surrender My cleric dutys are being deminished o.o

GriffinJ - Harshlands

People, we are doing this ALL wrong. Everyone is fighting or arguing with someone else and there is no reason in it. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Yes ENTITLED to their OWN opinion. Meaning as soon as you speak it it is free for someone to bash, kick, beatdown, run the mud. Whether you like it or not. But this thread is gettin so far off track here it is actually kinda funny. (kinda not a lot) We just need to sit back and let them do their job us arguing wont accomplish anything at all except make enemies of each other.

Falls - Sanctuary

Zanixx - Heavens Tear wrote: »

P.S. Fireworks Glitched. Going off on my feet not in the air. Not a complaint, but can someone tell me one good thing about this patch. LMAO b:laugh

Depends who you are: My Top Ten 10

10. Free HellHound for me?

9. Double XP for those who want to grind (Levels 1-60)?

8. End Game Items for Cash Shoppers? (Also, at least twice as much regular stuff, based on current Gold Prices, Heck, Give 'em the game.)

7. Less Laggy Servers?

6. TW Pay will no longer be a large obstacle for small factions to overcome?

5. TW Towers will become a large obstacle for small, poor factions to overcome xD?

4. Free Zhen if you like Tea or Discover Cards?

3. More people on the forums? [Complaining]

2. More money for PW to develop new expansions?

1. Enough people deleting their character that they might actually have a reason to try the Tideborn?

Alexeno - Sanctuary

Order of Events:

i wake up and hop on the forums... open this thread, and here's my reaction:


i read through a few pages, and here's the community at large:


here's a comparison to an old event: (funny-tized for humor purposes)


here's the community at large's future prediction:


did i pretty much sum things up?

Parody - Harshlands

Alexeno - Sanctuary wrote: »

did i pretty much sum things up?

LOL b:laugh

yeah you did, but we still need to discuss b:angry

EthikaII - Heavens Tear

Falls - Sanctuary wrote: »

Depends who you are: My Top Ten 10

10. Free HellHound for me?

9. Double XP for those who want to grind (Levels 1-60)?

8. End Game Items for Cash Shoppers? (Also, at least twice as much regular stuff, based on current Gold Prices, Heck, Give 'em the game.)

7. Less Laggy Servers?

6. TW Pay will no longer be a large obstacle for small factions to overcome?

5. TW Towers will become a large obstacle for small, poor factions to overcome xD?

4. Free Zhen if you like Tea or Discover Cards?

3. More people on the forums? [Complaining]

2. More money for PW to develop new expansions?

1. Enough people deleting their character that they might actually have a reason to try the Tideborn?

i like your summery , but what was you suggestion i think i may have missed it through out the 100+ posts :ob:surrender