v182 Update discussion thread.

eatwithspoons

Ajani - Harshlands wrote: »

Like the Jolly event did?
spoons u want feedback, people already gave several ideas. Ofc none will be implemneted. It would be unfair to people that already bought gold. Although giving away engame gear for a few bucks is not really good idea.. anyway i dont care. I already quittedb:cuteb:bye

I'm not going to argue with anyone who is already set in their opinions, and I have been listening to concerns, unfortunately it is not realistic for me to snap my fingers and fix everything, which is why real feedback is important to me

Vezz - Heavens Tear

Midnight - Lost City wrote: »

the only thing u could do to fix this is go back a dya and return money to people's accounts which u won't do.

A way to fix this would be to render the problematics items deprecated. This could be possible by increasing the level cap to 150 and introducing better shards / weapon ( yes better than warsouls ) / armors / tome / etc. Also the current end game items which are called by duke would need to be easier to obtain then before ( maybe keep the anniversary box permanently ).

DarkSniper - Lost City

I have hope that this problem will be fixed still, so unlike some others im not going to simply get up and leave on the first day.


This is kind of funny though. I remember the first time I logged in. The little message you get telling you about recent updates and where to buy pre paid zen cards had this:


Some people think that when the game is released, the work is over. We however beleive that when the game is released, the work truly begins. Yadda yadda bla bla bla.



Now a year later the game has only gone downhill.

eatwithspoons

DarkSniper - Lost City wrote: »

Now a year later the game has only gone downhill.

This is not really a true statement, please don't make things up just to post here.

Forsakensin - Dreamweaver

i actually see where sniper is coming from, every event/sale is making gold prices spike and the game harder and harder to play

Bearish - Sanctuary

imo u should nerf the gears that u get through botique and put a bolded word on it saying "bought from botique." that way i feel better for the gears i farmed.

rsin

gold prices are the players fault. it is a small % of those who pay and buy gold who set the limits on theses high prices. more people buying gold would create more supply and more people to help set prices. Also it is the developers who created this all with the patch and game updates. Stop spamming and putting the blame on GM's and mods. They have to answer to the developers and cannot go against what the dev's create. Without developers = no game, no gm's, no mods, no economy, no forums to spam and absolutely no player base. So many ppl blame GM's...but look at everyone on these forums who has admitted to taking advantage of this to get rich. A player who buys 200 gold at 120k then sells for 400-500k during these events is what causes the problems to start with not the event itself. Everybody trying to get rich in the smallest and most greedy ways.

Lenyel - Harshlands

I wanna do a real purpose.

Let's rename the "Anniversary Pack" in "Chaos bringer Pack".

This will make things more clear.

Eviltwist - Lost City

eatwithspoons wrote: »

it's too early to say, but you know that we've been trying to find ways to get inflation down. The thing is, we have to implement things gradually because, as you can see, people react very negatively to change

You and Kantorek would make good pals in business and administration class b:victory

eatwithspoons

Bearish - Sanctuary wrote: »

imo u should nerf the gears that u get through botique and put a bolded word on it saying "bought from botique." that way i feel better for the gears i farmed.

so another idea i'm hearing is gear that is only almost comparable to the drops in-game, as opposed to the same level.

Keep the new ideas coming, and keep the flames out, they don't help.

I know that people think that we are "doing nothing" but changes can't be made instantly, this is why the process of voicing true concerns constructively is so important. Stuff isn't going to be resolved in the next 5 minutes, so we do have time to formulate a more complete picture of player concerns before taking action

jaeseu

eatwithspoons wrote: »

it's too early to say, but you know that we've been trying to find ways to get inflation down. The thing is, we have to implement things gradually because, as you can see, people react very negatively to change

How about not implementing things that include opening packs that give you a % of getting rare items or whatever...anything similiar to Spring Packs, Anniversary Packs...anything with 'Pack' in it is dangerous. DDX

Edit:

eatwithspoons wrote: »

I know that people think that we are "doing nothing" but changes can't be made instantly, this is why the process of voicing true concerns constructively is so important. Stuff isn't going to be resolved in the next 5 minutes, so we do have time to formulate a more complete picture of player concerns before taking action

Can making Duke stop spamming be resolved soon? >< I think that's what they did for Halloween Event...they managed to shush him up quickly. @_@ I don't remember.

Quilue - Sanctuary

it'd be kind of nice if charms, GAs, all the consumables for regular play that used to be in the boutique be buyable in-game at a set price in light of what's happening to the gold prices now. i'd be happy making them cost say, 500k coins per gold charm and say, 50k coins per GA at some npc. that way at least the f2p kids can still play and have fun.

personally, i haven't been affected much by this: i don't pvp, i don't run on charms (none of that zhen, rebirth), i haven't farmed days on ends on TT, lunar, whatever, i didn't dq for the horses, etc etc etc. however, a lot of people have, a lot of friends have. it pisses them off when people can just get what they worked for a long time to get in so short a time. i mean, the time you spend in this game has to count for something, so that people don't feel playing the game is a waste of time. kind of ironic, because playing a game is wasting time b:chuckle

Rumble - Harshlands

Eatswithspoons - You can't seriously believe that what you are doing is meant to fix the economy can you? I mean let's be honest with each other here. That's all we want in the community. I mean what's happening is bad enough, but I think the community gets angrier still if we feel like we're getting BS'd. Just tell us you are trying to spike sales and why. It's better then being lied to.

Not a single thing PWI has done has helped the economy. Not one. Go ahead and name one if you can. I dare you to. And don't give some BS answer of what you meant to do or what was intended because we all know what was intended. I can't fault you guys for wanting more revenue. You're a business so let's be businessmen here and be honest with each other.

We've stated time and again that what drives any economy is supply and demand. Your sales are putting the price through the roof. Everyone is giving feedback for weeks about this, but no one listens or cares. Instead we can count on a new outrageous sale every week. Sometimes two a week. But hey what do I know about the economy right? It's not like I spend my day at a real job that sees how changes effect it. Oh wait I do. Well who cares right?

Your claim that the goal was to take coins out of the system with JJ was BS. Especially when in the same instance you introduce a coin box. What did you think was going to happen? Either a) The price of gold would increase to meet the price of the hammers or b) If gold was cheap enough then more people would buy hammers, open the boxes and all of a sudden there is more game coin on the server. More game coin means people can spend more money so the price of gold goes back up and you're left with a).

So what fixes this you might ask? Stop the sales. Stop them. People will buy gold, but have nothing new to buy. They'll then put it in the AH and non-CS users will bid on it. The supply of gold in AH will increase and with lower demand for items in the boutique because of slowed sales events the price of gold will have to lower. It's the natural course of any economy. But again what could I possibly know right? I'm just some guy playing and MMORPG in my free time so I either know nothing or everything? Couldn't be somewhere in between where practical common sense and economics 101 plays a factor.

Bahhhhh.

dekciw

eatwithspoons wrote: »

This is not really a true statement, please don't make things up just to post here.

You've done a good job in adding more content to keep players that are getting closer to the max lvl interested and addicted to the game. But giving players using the Cash Shop an easy way to get end game gear is probably the worst idea to see the light coming from PW. There is people that have been working hard for weeks and months to get the gear they have and adding those items to cash shop doesn't only make their efforts look diminished but it is also ruined because now anyone can get those items as long as they invest money from their pocket. So any edge over other players because you worked hard for it would be instantly gone. I do know it's a f2p game and that you need to make some money to pay the staff and keep the server up which more than justify the presence of cash shop but I think adding this package in the cash shop is over-doing it.

I feel that is going to turn a lot of people off of the game especially the old players if such idea was to become official. Now don't take this as a threat but I do think you should reconsider what items should be available in this package. PW is the best f2p game I've played so I have faith in you guys taking the right decision. Please do consider the time that some people invested in acquiring such items, it would only be fair.

Ilenka - Harshlands

This is just going insane

I agree with some players that says that you dont have to put gold to play it and have fun, yes... as long as you dont hit other players or duel them.. especially the ones with lots of gold, charms and guardian angels...
What about crafting materials, some people farm like i do, and take ages to get the mats for making a lv 4 blacksmith weapon (and when you make it, it goes one star no sockets xD lol) and thenyou find several catshops reselling stuff they get from the boutique... thats a pain for all of us.

For Me living where i am (Peru, South america) is almost impossible to recharge Zen since, you know, paypal dont even accept cards in here, and most of banks cards wont do it to the game... cant get prepaid cards or anything....

yeah, its a pity to be in some regions btw.
However, this is not the first MMORPG i've been in, however this is the first one i happen to notice that has SO MUCH USAGE FROM its boutique. Meaning, things are awfully expensive and people still buy it.

If the prices are going high is just because of some freaks that love reselling to control massive loads of coins... taking advantage of those WHO CANNOT recharge zen. And also because even when the prices are high, like the lovely wings or mounts for instance, people keep on spending...

if we keep on spending prices wont ever go low...

Im really dissapointed seeing how expensive the bride and groom packs are... i have my husband in real life that plays along with me, and we cannot get married in game for this issue... u.u/.

Coming from a third world country with an average income of 200 us dollars per MONTH, these prices are just way too much.. u.u

(I just wanted to share this.... and yes, the packs should be available for everybody, as part of celebration, just for creators to do something nice for us... either way, income is gonna keep on flowing.... rite?)

b:surrender

eatwithspoons

Don't direct your anger at me, it's not productive at all.

I'm trying to be the intermediary, but it would be unprofessional if my boss asks me what players think and the only response I had was "you're not doing anything to fix the economy!" because then we're still at square one with no suggestions for improvement.

Centetric - Lost City

no offense but i dont see y evey1 is QQing bout gold prices. U dont HAVE to get ANYTHING from the cash shop.
Players set the prices
even if the they make another sale. the PLAYERS set the prices.

btw will there ever be a way to trade gold O_O

Devoted - Lost City

eatwithspoons wrote: »

Don't direct your anger at me, it's not productive at all.

I'm trying to be the intermediary, but it would be unprofessional if my boss asks me what players think and the only response I had was "you're not doing anything to fix the economy!" because then we're still at square one with no suggestions for improvement.

Here's some suggestions:

-remove the pack before it gets worse
-stop the servers for a bit and take the time to figure out what the community is saying and act accordingly.
-give everyone warsoul to compensate for the now broken pvp.

SneakyStalk - Harshlands

Everyone went out of control now. All servers with one voice = This Thread.

No wonder it has reached over 70 pages in less than 6 hours.
Im at work still and cannot log in PWI yet for at least 2 hours. I stil dont have an opinion over the current state of economy on Harshlands but I was just about to get a big chunk of ZEN both for me and my wifes Account (Ilenka) - yeah its hard to get gold. but we both've been in the US and have friends that can get us prepaid cards and such.

... BUT Now I have my doubts. Will the game still be as fair as before? will it be fun? IDK.
It is true, many people will stay and for those who leave many others will take their places.
Luckily for us, even though we are on a PvP we mostly do PvE and enjoy it. We dont waste tons of money on charms, ultra-refined equipment and trying to prove that Im better than the next player based on how much I spend on the game. A cash shopper lvl 54 cleric still cant beat me even charmed, and if he did once... was for a barely difference.

I hope the feedback is heard and that the prices and PRIZES get fair again.
Well. everyone blames GMs but they are not the ones who plan the events lol.
I assume they carry the feedback from us to the developers in a better organized way.

So what if a lvl1 gets a lvl95 weapon or shard. He's gonna spend so many days trying to sell it via CaTsHOP? He wont use it for a looong time.I do think it is unfair for those high lvls who worked very hard to get those items though. Either the algorithms or "in game luck" are modified so that rewards are slightly mroe lvl oriented (lets say by lvl range. if ur lvl 45 u can get lvl 55-60 rewards and so on) or many people will get unsatisfied and leave the game.

Still I would really like to see some other Harshlands people's voice here.

Thanks for ur attention.

EDIT: I also think it was unfair to give the mount to Sept 2008. I am nor from October, nor November, nor December, but I think the mount should have been given to people who joined before Jan1st 2009.
Funny thing is that most of the people that joined on those dates have at least 2 characters or they are high levels with big chunks of coins or gold. I seriously doubt they didnt ahve a mount already. And if the date doesnt make sense, then make it a lucky aniversary gift. like talk to this NPC and get a chance of getting a mount. That would be fair for everyone in game I believe.

Forsakensin - Dreamweaver

correction you need to buy gold charms from the cash shop if you wanna do rebirth and the like, which is by far impossible for those of us with no spare cash now

porkypigz0r

My question to all the people: Do you actually know how F2P business is run and what the real GM's responsibilities are?

rsin

Rumble - Harshlands wrote: »

Not a single thing PWI has done has helped the economy. Not one. Go ahead and name one if you can. I dare you to.

With the release of new mounts, older mounts are reduced in value. now a newer player can buy panthers and polarbears for 700k instead of 2mil. Alot of happy campers just happy to be able to afford them now.

Eviltwist - Lost City

Spoon seems not to understand what most of people are trying to say.

Let me explain it for you b:victory

You were working 1 year saving all the money you made to buy a Mercedes and you finally got the brand new, shiny Merc for $50k You are happy that you finally have it. The next day you are happy driving to work in your brand new Mercedes and you see a long line near Mercedes auto dealer, you stop by to check what's going on ANDDDDDDDDD the Mercedes is now on super uber sale for $1. Now your hard work for the car is pretty much wasted since everyone else is driving the same car you were working so hard to get.

Wouldn't you be pissed off ?

porkypigz0r

eatwithspoons wrote: »

Don't direct your anger at me, it's not productive at all.

I'm trying to be the intermediary, but it would be unprofessional if my boss asks me what players think and the only response I had was "you're not doing anything to fix the economy!" because then we're still at square one with no suggestions for improvement.

Eviltwist - Lost City wrote: »

Spoon seems not to understand what most of people are trying to say.

Let me explain it for you b:victory

You were working 1 year saving all the money you made to buy a Mercedes and you finally got the brand new, shiny Merc for $50k You are happy that you finally have it. The next day you are happy driving to work in your brand new Mercedes and you see a long line near Mercedes auto dealer, you stop by to check what's going on ANDDDDDDDDD the Mercedes is now on super uber sale for $1.

Wouldn't you be pissed off ?

I'm pretty sure he does understand it. It's just there is nothing that can be done immidiately about it, it is beyond his responsibilities/permissions.

Rumble - Harshlands

I hope that wasn't pointed at me. We have suggested ideas. Namely to stop the sales. So since we "know" that you're going to your boss with these ideas what does your boss say about that? Frankly I think I know what he says because we've now had 2 sales a week it seems and all kinds of new CS items added since JJ which brought the issue to light. Regardless though I'd love to hear what your boss says about that idea and why they don't think it is the solution.

For what it's worth though eatswithspoons I will give you props as you step up to the firing line and take the abuse. I've played several failing/failed MMORPGs (Not saying PWI is in that stage because I don't think it is) and the one constant is that GMs never respond to anything. EVER. That ticks me off, but here you are so thanks.

As for other GMs though seriously stop with the thread locking. This is getting ridiculous. I see some serious threads locked. All this does is make more people angry that you're trying to control their sentiments.

Vitenka - Dreamweaver

Alright, constructive criticism:

There is obviously a HUGE amount of coin in game. Players will trade this coin between themselves to buy gold any time there is some interesting new item available.

This current anniversary item is clearly highly desired.

When money is transferred this way, you only remove 2% of the coins from the game.
But actually during these events a lot MORE money flows than usual - which suggests that it is usually just sat in players bank accounts doing nothing.

Several solutions present themselves to this problem: The easiest of which would be to have some desirable item available for *coin* and remove some of the coin reserves from the game.

Longer term, you will want to implement more such coin sinks. At the moment, the only costs are skills (which are one-off per character) and repair bills (which are relatively small for most characters.)

Perhaps a dungeon which you have to pay a lot of coin to enter. Perhaps some new fashion items.

Your second problem is that many high-level players feel cheated that others are getting rewards which they 'worked' for.

The solution here is simple: You must cut off the boxes. Or change what they give you.

They would have been much more sensibly implemented as one per player, or perhaps one per month played, or something like that.

And the rewards inside should be changed to be unique items, rather than being items which have already been obtained. The tomes and lobster mounts are good for this, and even the gems and such.

It might also have been a mistake (too late to rectify now, of course) to announce what the boxes contained.
People *will* gamble on such tremendous rewards, whereas if they'd just opened a couple out of curiosity and got nothing but lucky tokens there would not have been such a mad gold-rush.

I also think that you are rushing people towards the higher levels. That may do nasty things to the new-players experience.

Lastly, if the aim was to get people to pay real money, then I think you're on to a winner with these boxes.
But you have made it very very hard for a new player to compete without charging money. That will have long term consequences.

Edit: You also harm your players trust by not giving at least rough percentage chances. The way the webpage lists the items makes it appear that the tomes are the most likely reward, when actually they appear to be at least as rare as the lobster, which itself is as rare as the goldmane lion and ninetails were in their packs.

Divine_Death - Dreamweaver

Centetric - Lost City wrote: »

no offense but i dont see y evey1 is QQing bout gold prices. U dont HAVE to get ANYTHING from the cash shop.
Players set the prices
even if the they make another sale. the PLAYERS set the prices.

btw will there ever be a way to trade gold O_O

Good luck in TT BB-ing w/o a charm. There ARE things that players must get from CS in order to function at higher levels. GA's on PvP server for one, unless you are willing to risk your gears.

While in the end, player sets the price, the economy is run by supply and demand. That's all there's to it. Demand goes up, price goes up - Eco 101. The insane amount of stuff you can get for 1 gold drives up demand for sure. Players set the price, yet sales set the demands.

Murad - Harshlands

as for me i quiting. I playd before on malaysian version where is more cash users. boxes there are normal stuff and ppl just spaming with them. Those who can buy 100+ boxes are rich and strong (coz of refined eq). rest can only PvE coz they dont stand chance against them. I dont want to spend Xk $$ on this game. i already made that mistake once. Bye PWIb:bye

eatwithspoons

Eviltwist - Lost City wrote: »

Spoon seems not to understand what most of people are trying to say.

Let me explain it for you b:victory

You were working 1 year saving all the money you made to buy a Mercedes and you finally got the brand new, shiny Merc for $50k You are happy that you finally have it. The next day you are happy driving to work in your brand new Mercedes and you see a long line near Mercedes auto dealer, you stop by to check what's going on ANDDDDDDDDD the Mercedes is now on super uber sale for $1. Now your hard work for the car is pretty much wasted since everyone else is driving the same car you were working so hard to get.

Wouldn't you be pissed off ?

I do understand that, why would I not? That doesn't change the fact that if you go down to the dealership and slap around an employee that the MSRP is going to change due to your actions. You formally write a complaint stating the specific things that you don't like and then your opinion is heard.

I can't respond directly to your feedback because there is just way too much of it to answer, this does not mean I'm not reading it

by the way i just imagined that and it was pretty funny

rsin

Eviltwist - Lost City wrote: »

Spoon seems not to understand what most of people are trying to say.

Let me explain it for you b:victory

You were working 1 year saving all the money you made to buy a Mercedes and you finally got the brand new, shiny Merc for $50k You are happy that you finally have it. The next day you are happy driving to work in your brand new Mercedes and you see a long line near Mercedes auto dealer, you stop by to check what's going on ANDDDDDDDDD the Mercedes is now on super uber sale for $1. Now your hard work for the car is pretty much wasted since everyone else is driving the same car you were working so hard to get.

Wouldn't you be pissed off ?

mercedes didnt make you work hard for that car. it is the buyers choice. if the demand is high enough and people feel that they need the newest and greatest thing then yes they will do what they can to get it...but that doesnt make it the car companies fault. because its their choice to sell it and its your "choice" to buy it.