On PWI, and recent events, a view from the player.

truekossy

Agreeing with many others here. This is really just going too far. Loved the way PWI used to be.

Remember when gold prices were below 140k? Remember when we could honestly tell those new to the game that you didn't need to touch the cash shop til later levels and even then buying the gold with in-game coin was an option as long as you played it smart? Remember when sales used to result in itms being sold for CHEAPER instead of even MORE than the normal price? Remember when Average Joe could actually play the game and still get to enjoy it instead of having to bunk down and grind their butt off just so they could fix that mag they added to their BM when they were still a newbie?

I do and I, for one, most certainly wish those times would come back again... but the way things are going, that doesn't seem likely at all.

Reivi - Sanctuary

I wonder if the people behind the recent events do the math ?

from june till now
June
-Orb sale(06/05), Battlecat(06/09), wine material(06/16), mounts(06/23), Eso(06/30)

July
-Fashion(07/07),Storage(07/14), case (07/21), Fashion(07/21), Blow out sale(07/23), Orb (07/29), Charm packs (07/29)

thats quite a lot of money to get to participate to those sales...

I dont have any kin relationship with cresus, Rothschild or others... dont think many players have

We cant put 50$ or more every mounth to have access to the events the game offers.

how log does it takes someone to do the math and think = that game that comes in september, is only 12$ a mounth and i have access to all the features...

Most players of PWI will afford more than 12$ a mounth .. but surely not 50$

what we see unfolding on the servers with the prices going crazy is the limits of capitalism.. rich who gets richer from others.. and poor people staying poor.. and quitting. So the rich will stay betwen themslves and wont have anybody to sale to... and then quit too.

Crazydan - Heavens Tear

truekossy wrote: »

Agreeing with many others here. This is really just going too far. Loved the way PWI used to be.

Remember when gold prices were below 140k? Remember when we could honestly tell those new to the game that you didn't need to touch the cash shop til later levels and even then buying the gold with in-game coin was an option as long as you played it smart? Remember when sales used to result in itms being sold for CHEAPER instead of even MORE than the normal price? Remember when Average Joe could actually play the game and still get to enjoy it instead of having to bunk down and grind their butt off just so they could fix that mag they added to their BM when they were still a newbie?

I do and I, for one, most certainly wish those times would come back again... but the way things are going, that doesn't seem likely at all.

Well its half on the dev half on us because we r the ones who control Gold prices so stand together and lower prices ppl

WillowWisp - Lost City

The interesting part is mmo's seem be going downhill faster then usual these days - what is it , a year or less and this one's about to bite the dust?

On a similar note - distributors should stop sending F2P asian games over here - those monkeys indeed are used to exploiting their gamers to the fullest and we don't agree with that - final.

Miugre - Heavens Tear

Oh thank god I'm not alone. -_- I've been saying this all week but I kept feeling like the only one.

If there's really this much support for this cause, then may I be the first to suggest we draft some kind of petition? Normally I don't think online petitioning works, but in such a condensed space where the powers-that-be actually do listen to us, it might be viable.

I have one question on the matter, though. PWI as a business is doing well, right? I heard some stats recently that suggested that PWI was doing very well, but I forgot them. x_x If that's the case, though, than PWI has no excuse for these CS gimmicks.

HolyInferno - Sanctuary

Reivi - Sanctuary wrote: »

I wonder if the people behind the recent events do the math ?

from june till now
June
-Orb sale(06/05), Battlecat(06/09), wine material(06/16), mounts(06/23), Eso(06/30)

July
-Fashion(07/07),Storage(07/14), case (07/21), Fashion(07/21), Blow out sale(07/23), Orb (07/29), Charm packs (07/29)

thats quite a lot of money to get to participate to those sales...

I dont have any kin relationship with cresus, Rothschild or others... dont think many players have

We cant put 50$ or more every mounth to have access to the events the game offers.

how log does it takes someone to do the math and think = that game that comes in september, is only 12$ a mounth and i have access to all the features...

Most players of PWI will afford more than 12$ a mounth .. but surely not 50$

what we see unfolding on the servers with the prices going crazy is the limits of capitalism.. rich who gets richer from others.. and poor people staying poor.. and quitting. So the rich will stay betwen themslves and wont have anybody to sale to... and then quit too.

It is as someone said before: It seems to be a desperate attempt to salvage whatever they can before they tank. Either that or all the people involved got their business education at the local clown community college

truekossy

Crazydan - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Well its half on the dev half on us because we r the ones who control Gold prices so stand together and lower prices ppl

On one of my accounts on Sanctuary, my highest level character is a 46 archer.

That account has not received any aid from my others, nor from people who know me on my other accounts.

I have managed to gain roughly 23 mil in coins alone (have some mounts, fashions, etc that I'm not counting) on that account, which is sitting in my bank waiting to be used.

I have not touched gold since the prices on Sanctuary rose to be above 140k.

With the rate things are going, it seems I will not be touching gold there anymore at all, not that boycotting gold does much other than give Zen purchasers less reason to do so.

Benjabob - Dreamweaver

I am seriously considering quitting PWI and joining a P2P, for at least in P2P it is a controlled amount of money spent a month, and to be honest, $10-15 a month for most people is very manageable. A lot of these games that have monthly fees and no cash shop are great because for that money you pay, you can get your mount(s), epic gear and weapons ect in game no problem, you just have work for them a bit which is far more rewarding and exciting than buying one straight off with real money. Plus you dont get as many idiots running around on them, by idiots i mean young kids and it generally makes for a more enjoyable experience.

Bowlinbob - Lost City

I agree with the OP, its totally starting on a path my old game followed before I quit. If the devs continue this they will lose a lot of players.

Benjabob - Dreamweaver

Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Oh thank god I'm not alone. -_- I've been saying this all week but I kept feeling like the only one.

If there's really this much support for this cause, then may I be the first to suggest we draft some kind of petition? Normally I don't think online petitioning works, but in such a condensed space where the powers-that-be actually do listen to us, it might be viable.

I have one question on the matter, though. PWI as a business is doing well, right? I heard some stats recently that suggested that PWI was doing very well, but I forgot them. x_x If that's the case, though, than PWI has no excuse for these CS gimmicks.

It's BECAUSE of these CS gimmicks that they are doing so well though, this is the major problem, and they will continue to do so until everyone leaves, and then they will bring out another game and do the same thing ect ect.

Nova_ - Harshlands

Removed: Please do not discuss other games on our forums.

Benjabob - Dreamweaver

Removed: Please do not discuss other games on our forums.

RisenPhoenix - Sanctuary

Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Oh thank god I'm not alone. -_- I've been saying this all week but I kept feeling like the only one.

If there's really this much support for this cause, then may I be the first to suggest we draft some kind of petition? Normally I don't think online petitioning works, but in such a condensed space where the powers-that-be actually do listen to us, it might be viable.

I have one question on the matter, though. PWI as a business is doing well, right? I heard some stats recently that suggested that PWI was doing very well, but I forgot them. x_x If that's the case, though, than PWI has no excuse for these CS gimmicks.

http://online.wsj.com/public/quotes/main.html?symbol=PWRD

See for yourself. Look at PWRD's history, its the Parent company of all PW versions. They are doing quite well.....therefore, just being flat out greedy.

Petitions dont work. The Dev's dont care, and the GMs sit here watching their players QQ constantly, and with good reason. I feel bad for them, its their jobs on the line.

I think the President and their company Board should log on this forum and read. They might learn a thing or two.

Miugre - Heavens Tear

Then the GMs could bring it to their attention. Look, the GMs and mods DO listen, and what they don't have the power to change, they can bring to the people who do.

xarfox

First and foremost, the reason why the price for Guardian Angels has shot through the roof, is because of the addition of Jolly Old Jones, not the Gear Shattering system.

For those who are not familiar with Jolly Old Jones, he's an NPC that allows players to trade either Guardian Angels for rewards, or 100k coins.

This brings me to the second purpose of Jolly Old Jones, to drain the economy. The last time we had this event, we drained a huge amount of money out of the PWI economy.

Granted that currently gold prices are inflated, however they should fall back down after this event/sale, perhaps even to a lower benchmark since so much coin is being sunk out of the game.

Gold trading is something that we pay a lot of attention to at PWE. We realize that a large number of players get their gold through the auction house, and carefully watch that system with a variety of metrics, statistics, and tools.

We also realize that lately it seems like it's been nothing but sale after sale. That's simply because the large content update we had today required a lot of work from the development team, and with the upcoming additions of the Bounty Hunter and Warsong City (very soon) it's easy to see how their plate has been full.

Now finally. There are some monumental updates on the way for PWI. I cannot go into the specifics of what they are, but I can say that upon having the news of these updates fall upon my ears, I was not only shocked beyond belief, but more excited than I've been for any previous content update/expansion.

Konariraiden - Heavens Tear

xarfox wrote: »

First and foremost, the reason why the price for Guardian Angels has shot through the roof, is because of the addition of Jolly Old Jones, not the Gear Shattering system.

For those who are not familiar with Jolly Old Jones, he's an NPC that allows players to trade either Guardian Angels for rewards, or 100k coins.

This brings me to the second purpose of Jolly Old Jones, to drain the economy. The last time we had this event, we drained a huge amount of money out of the PWI economy.

Granted that currently gold prices are inflated, however they should fall back down after this event/sale, perhaps even to a lower benchmark since so much coin is being sunk out of the game.

Gold trading is something that we pay a lot of attention to at PWE. We realize that a large number of players get their gold through the auction house, and carefully watch that system with a variety of metrics, statistics, and tools.

We also realize that lately it seems like it's been nothing but sale after sale. That's simply because the large content update we had today required a lot of work from the development team, and with the upcoming additions of the Bounty Hunter and Warsong City (very soon) it's easy to see how their plate has been full.

Now finally. There are some monumental updates on the way for PWI. I cannot go into the specifics of what they are, but I can say that upon having the news of these updates fall upon my ears, I was not only shocked beyond belief, but more excited than I've been for any previous content update/expansion.

We love explanations. Xarfox, you have just cemented this player's involvement in your Awesome-Sauce game. Keep it up.

Benjabob - Dreamweaver

xarfox wrote: »

First and foremost, the reason why the price for Guardian Angels has shot through the roof, is because of the addition of Jolly Old Jones, not the Gear Shattering system.

For those who are not familiar with Jolly Old Jones, he's an NPC that allows players to trade either Guardian Angels for rewards, or 100k coins.

This brings me to the second purpose of Jolly Old Jones, to drain the economy. The last time we had this event, we drained a huge amount of money out of the PWI economy.

Granted that currently gold prices are inflated, however they should fall back down after this event/sale, perhaps even to a lower benchmark since so much coin is being sunk out of the game.

Gold trading is something that we pay a lot of attention to at PWE. We realize that a large number of players get their gold through the auction house, and carefully watch that system with a variety of metrics, statistics, and tools.

We also realize that lately it seems like it's been nothing but sale after sale. That's simply because the large content update we had today required a lot of work from the development team, and with the upcoming additions of the Bounty Hunter and Warsong City (very soon) it's easy to see how their plate has been full.

Now finally. There are some monumental updates on the way for PWI. I cannot go into the specifics of what they are, but I can say that upon having the news of these updates fall upon my ears, I was not only shocked beyond belief, but more excited than I've been for any previous content update/expansion.

I've got nothing against the GM's they are all friendly helpful people, but they are really as powerless as anybody else when it comes to influencing Devs and tptb. I hope that the economy changes, plus I think that TW's are ruining it for a lot of people, but well it waits to be seen if any amazing changes really are coming to PWI

Miugre - Heavens Tear

xarfox wrote: »

First and foremost, the reason why the price for Guardian Angels has shot through the roof, is because of the addition of Jolly Old Jones, not the Gear Shattering system.

For those who are not familiar with Jolly Old Jones, he's an NPC that allows players to trade either Guardian Angels for rewards, or 100k coins.

This brings me to the second purpose of Jolly Old Jones, to drain the economy. The last time we had this event, we drained a huge amount of money out of the PWI economy.

Granted that currently gold prices are inflated, however they should fall back down after this event/sale, perhaps even to a lower benchmark since so much coin is being sunk out of the game.

Gold trading is something that we pay a lot of attention to at PWE. We realize that a large number of players get their gold through the auction house, and carefully watch that system with a variety of metrics, statistics, and tools.

We also realize that lately it seems like it's been nothing but sale after sale. That's simply because the large content update we had today required a lot of work from the development team, and with the upcoming additions of the Bounty Hunter and Warsong City (very soon) it's easy to see how their plate has been full.

Now finally. There are some monumental updates on the way for PWI. I cannot go into the specifics of what they are, but I can say that upon having the news of these updates fall upon my ears, I was not only shocked beyond belief, but more excited than I've been for any previous content update/expansion.

I distinctly remember gold prices being intolerable during the last Jolly Old Jones event, and although I don't really remember how they were immediately after... well, if there WAS a break in high gold prices, it was immediately nullified with the next sale/event.

xarfox I'm begging you man... use whatever influence you have to get through to the powers that be, here. We need breaks in between CS events! Other ways you can help are to introduce more ZEN bonus sales to encourage buying (do this in conjunction with a "break" week), and for the love of god don't create anymore "barrier" items like Perfect Golden Hammer. I mean seriously, requiring it for cube of fate items now? What were you guys thinking?? This is the sort of thing that permenantly drives up the gold price. If you really are that serious about steering the game economy to a more tolerable path for non-ZEN buyers, these are things that need to happen.

And again, as far as content goes, just roll it out in multiple patches! We could have had the wardrobe thing one week, the 7-9 buttons one week, the AH favorites one week, and the buff icon thing one week. Why pack them all together? All that does is create hype and impatience for the actual content, and in the meantime you have huge gaps which you then have to fill with more boutique events/sales. You had it right the first time, man. We need a return to older times.

But I do thank you for listening... examples like this are part of the reason why I still play at all.

xarfox

Benjabob - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I've got nothing against the GM's they are all friendly helpful people, but they are really as powerless as anybody else when it comes to influencing Devs and tptb. I hope that the economy changes, plus I think that TW's are ruining it for a lot of people, but well it waits to be seen if any amazing changes really are coming to PWI

It's true that GM's on average and overall do not have much influence over the development team for PWI. However there are individuals that do exist, that work at PWE, and work hard to voice your opinions directly to the development team.

I can't draw a line directly from point A to B and show it to you. I can, however, assure you that the line does exist, and in-fact, has been getting thicker and thicker as time goes by.

RisenPhoenix - Sanctuary

xarfox wrote: »

First and foremost, the reason why the price for Guardian Angels has shot through the roof, is because of the addition of Jolly Old Jones, not the Gear Shattering system.

For those who are not familiar with Jolly Old Jones, he's an NPC that allows players to trade either Guardian Angels for rewards, or 100k coins.

This brings me to the second purpose of Jolly Old Jones, to drain the economy. The last time we had this event, we drained a huge amount of money out of the PWI economy.

Granted that currently gold prices are inflated, however they should fall back down after this event/sale, perhaps even to a lower benchmark since so much coin is being sunk out of the game.

Gold trading is something that we pay a lot of attention to at PWE. We realize that a large number of players get their gold through the auction house, and carefully watch that system with a variety of metrics, statistics, and tools.

We also realize that lately it seems like it's been nothing but sale after sale. That's simply because the large content update we had today required a lot of work from the development team, and with the upcoming additions of the Bounty Hunter and Warsong City (very soon) it's easy to see how their plate has been full.

Now finally. There are some monumental updates on the way for PWI. I cannot go into the specifics of what they are, but I can say that upon having the news of these updates fall upon my ears, I was not only shocked beyond belief, but more excited than I've been for any previous content update/expansion.

Well.....no offense to you, Xarfox, I appreciate your hard work and dedication. But your effort to do damage control by this statement is all too familiar. These promises of "monumental updates on the way for PWI" have been said before, and look at where we are today.

What if Jolly Jones doesnt cool down gold prices? And angels will continue to be high, after Jolly Jones goes away on vacation again, because of the Shattered Gear system.

Im just not entirely convinced. I understand your trying to do your job, and everyone else is too. But there is a communication gap between Player Base and Development Team.

And if the line is getting thicker supposedly by people relaying our concerns and complaints, then why do I see things getting worse and worse? Seems to me they are telling you they listen, so you tell us they listen, but they arent listening at all.

ChaneLaforet - Sanctuary

xarfox wrote: »

Gold trading is something that we pay a lot of attention to at PWE. We realize that a large number of players get their gold through the auction house, and carefully watch that system with a variety of metrics, statistics, and tools.

Of course PWE watches the gold trading carefully. It is, after all, PWE's source of income. That doesn't make it look like PWE has the players' interest in mind. That actually gives us more reason to think PWE is out on some more income. Without further information given by PWE, it is up to us to think of it as necessary for you to keep the company running, or to think of it as greed.

xarfox wrote: »

We also realize that lately it seems like it's been nothing but sale after sale. That's simply because the large content update we had today required a lot of work from the development team, and with the upcoming additions of the Bounty Hunter and Warsong City (very soon) it's easy to see how their plate has been full.

So... their plates have been full, but not so full that they can plan sale after sale?... Maybe this is a bad assumption, but less sales means less maintenance, less monitoring the gold prices, less QQing to deal with, less worries and problems to spend time on in general? Tell me that I misunderstood you here, please. b:surrender

xarfox wrote: »

Now finally. There are some monumental updates on the way for PWI. I cannot go into the specifics of what they are, but I can say that upon having the news of these updates fall upon my ears, I was not only shocked beyond belief, but more excited than I've been for any previous content update/expansion.

Right. Maybe you are excited, many of us are not. In fact, many of us are pretty dissatisfied. Grumpy. Angry. Announcing new content that you cannot go into specifics about won't solve any of that. Especially if later on, the content isn't all that exciting to the majority of the gamers.

I agree with what Risen said. There is a big gap that needs to be bridged. Communication can bridge that. Answers to our questions and worries, and to undo assumptions that make PWE and the game look bad.

silaba

xarfox wrote: »

It's true that GM's on average and overall do not have much influence over the development team for PWI. However there are individuals that do exist, that work at PWE, and work hard to voice your opinions directly to the development team.

I can't draw a line directly from point A to B and show it to you. I can, however, assure you that the line does exist, and in-fact, has been getting thicker and thicker as time goes by.

We love you Xarfox! b:kiss

xarfox

RisenPhoenix - Sanctuary wrote: »

Well.....no offense to you, Xarfox, I appreciate your hard work and dedication. But your effort to do damage control by this statement is all too familiar. These promises of "monumental updates on the way for PWI" have been said before, and look at where we are today.

What if Jolly Jones doesnt cool down gold prices? And angels will continue to be high, after Jolly Jones goes away on vacation again, because of the Shattered Gear system.

Im just not entirely convinced. I understand your trying to do your job, and everyone else is too. But there is a communication gap between Player Base and Development Team.

Regarding your comments about the "monumental updates", there's really nothing I can do but take your comments on the chin and wait until the day when we can reveal what's the come.

Now regarding Jolly Old Jones, as stated, we are carefully watching this event and it's progress with draining the economy.

If the Shattered Gear system continues to keep Guardian Angels at an inflated price, that's honestly no problem, we can remedy that.

Finally, the reality of the situation is that there isn't a game in existence that doesn't have a communication gap between the Player Base and the Development Team. We acknowledge that gap here at PWE and work hard to bridge it on a daily basis, just as we try to continue to build bridges with our players.

Matche - Heavens Tear

Removed, please do not discuss other games on these forums.

xarfox

ChaneLaforet - Sanctuary wrote: »

So... their plates have been full, but not so full that they can plan sale after sale?... Maybe this is a bad assumption, but less sales means less maintenance, less monitoring the gold prices, less QQing to deal with, less worries and problems to spend time on in general? Tell me that I misunderstood you here, please. b:surrender

I can't go into to much detail about how things work here, but I can say that the development team does not plan sales, another party is responsible for that.

ChaneLaforet - Sanctuary wrote: »

Of course PWE watches the gold trading carefully. It is, after all, PWE's source of income. That doesn't make it look like PWE has the players' interest in mind. That actually gives us more reason to think PWE is out on some more income. Without further information given by PWE, it is up to us to think of it as necessary for you to keep the company running, or to think of it as greed.

Let clarify why we pay attention to Gold trade. Of course, Gold trade is indirectly paying our salaries, feeding our kids, and putting gas in our cars. However there is a more significant reason as to why we pay attention to the Gold trade system.

The majority of people in the real world are not rich, the majority of people in the real world are poor. Now we would be quite foolish to think that this would be different in PWI, right? As a result, we need to pay attention to how lower income individuals get their hands on cash shop items and continue to ensure that it's as easy as possible for them.

Despite all of this, you may still think we're greedy, that's your opinion, and maybe realistically there's nothing I can do to change that perception.

Tigriss - Heavens Tear

I still love you and the other GMs xarfox

ChaneLaforet - Sanctuary

xarfox wrote: »

I can't go into to much detail about how things work here, but I can say that the development team does not plan sales, another party is responsible for that.

Alright, too bad there's no transparency on this. Strong competition watching these forums, I suppose?

xarfox wrote: »

The majority of people in the real world are not rich, the majority of people in the real world are poor. Now we would be quite foolish to think that this would be different in PWI, right? As a result, we need to pay attention to how lower income individuals get their hands on cash shop items and continue to ensure that it's as easy as possible for them.

How lower income individuals get their hands on cash shop items? Uh... do people give away information about their income? Do you actually have information about how much people earn and how much they spend on this game? 0_o

xarfox wrote: »

Despite all of this, you may still think we're greedy, that's your opinion, and maybe realistically there's nothing I can do to change that perception.

I do feel that having sales is a not a bad idea to make Cash Shop items more available for the less wealthy among us. But does it really work like intended? Can poor people really benefit from sale after sale, or are they already done spending after the first sale? I find it questionable whether the intention to "help" the poor works the way PWE intends to. And if the long term consequences really help out the poor as well (the rich getting richer, becoming able to claw together all the rare materials they want, to name one of those consequences).

What PWE could do is more communication to influence perception. It won't be 100% power, but yeah... Why do companies have a Corporate Communication division, next to Investor Relations?

It is after all, to influence perception, to gain trust from stakeholders. In this case, the stakeholders are the gamers, whether they spend gazillions of dollars or none.

In reality, yes, perception can be influenced at least. PWE does very little, though I do appreciate a GM's effort like yours within your boundaries, xarfox. Too bad PWE doesn't take an example of it's own front office men like you.

Kazue - Heavens Tear

Isala - Sanctuary wrote: »

To put it simply, what has taken place is a matter of the rich getting richer, and the poor getting poorer.

Cause of the chip move... i just lost 15-16mil in asset. There goes weeks and weeks of saving money to buy a f*** mold just to have the price drop 90% right after i get it. Sorta make you think twice about playing the game.

Miugre - Heavens Tear

xarfox wrote: »

I can't go into to much detail about how things work here, but I can say that the development team does not plan sales, another party is responsible for that.

And how receptive, generally, are they to our wishes? Or perhaps in some cases, wishes-turned-demands?

xarfox wrote: »

Let clarify why we pay attention to Gold trade. Of course, Gold trade is indirectly paying our salaries, feeding our kids, and putting gas in our cars. However there is a more significant reason as to why we pay attention to the Gold trade system.

The majority of people in the real world are not rich, the majority of people in the real world are poor. Now we would be quite foolish to think that this would be different in PWI, right? As a result, we need to pay attention to how lower income individuals get their hands on cash shop items and continue to ensure that it's as easy as possible for them.

Now these are wise and true words, and I respect you and the rest of the GM team for them. But someone like you should understand that words will only go so far. We need the powers-that-be to understand that the player base is getting fed up with the inflation, and that there are ways to remedy it. So we need there to be as little holdup as possible in fixing the system.

Mothergoose - Sanctuary

Kazue - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Cause of the chip move... i just lost 15-16mil in asset. There goes weeks and weeks of saving money to buy a f*** mold just to have the price drop 90% right after i get it. Sorta make you think twice about playing the game.

Unlucky. What else is there to say? I was gonna buy some of those too, but decided to hold off for a different reason (more availability of chips, which we had warning, unlike the price changes). So now, I still have my savings. But still gonna wait a while longer, until Bounty Hunter is implemented. Then chips will be more available, and molds will be even cheaper.