PWI PvP is junk

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Comments

  • IceJazmin - Heavens Tear
    IceJazmin - Heavens Tear Posts: 4,206 Arc User
    edited June 2009
    You know what the range of Amp is?????
    You keep saying veno at max range for heal/kitting, for the veno to close from max range to amp range she would have to move that distance while not using any skills or attacks.
    Too often we loose sight of life's simple pleasures. Remember, when someone annoys you, it takes 42 muscles in your face to frown, BUT, it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and slap that mother#$@%#^! upside the head.
  • Aurian - Harshlands
    Aurian - Harshlands Posts: 538 Arc User
    edited June 2009
    OK, its possible. But for every class is waste of pots and time (since u have to farm herbs) while venos is just hit and run and most time wins -.-
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Coraline - Lost City
    Coraline - Lost City Posts: 867 Arc User
    edited June 2009
    Killing venos is alot harder when they are La, you cant just sparked and deadly shot then auto hit them to death like if they were arcane.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    eatswithspoons "*roll eyes* real money for virtual property? That's definitely not allowed"

    Lol what?
  • IceJazmin - Heavens Tear
    IceJazmin - Heavens Tear Posts: 4,206 Arc User
    edited June 2009
    Osiris - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    The problem is, that this tactic would require 145 chi for winged shell and wings of grace + x spark for the eruption just to conter a stupid pet that neither costs the veno any mana nor chi.

    I know, it was just an argument against the people that suggested to kill the nix before the veno (X)

    I am not saying it is effective, in the other hand, regular bow/sligshot/crossbow attack on a robe veno will do 3k+ damage without using any mana or chi either.....
    Too often we loose sight of life's simple pleasures. Remember, when someone annoys you, it takes 42 muscles in your face to frown, BUT, it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and slap that mother#$@%#^! upside the head.
  • Aedus - Harshlands
    Aedus - Harshlands Posts: 201 Arc User
    edited June 2009
    At least [removed] wont have fail nixers flying around everywhere, pushing 1 button to **** anything in it's sight.
  • Aurian - Harshlands
    Aurian - Harshlands Posts: 538 Arc User
    edited June 2009
    IceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    I am not saying it is effective, in the other hand, regular bow/sligshot/crossbow attack on a robe veno will do 3k+ damage without using any mana or chi either.....

    Ye and most venos use robe. You win.
    Venos use robes if they are PvE (some are PvE and play in PvP but ok..very few). Venos in both LC and HL are mainlly LA or HA.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Isala - Sanctuary
    Isala - Sanctuary Posts: 1,607 Arc User
    edited June 2009
    Osiris - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    I know, it was just an argument against the people that suggested to kill the nix before the veno (X)

    Oh, don't get me wrong. I dash through the QQbird into the Veno's face. I was just assuming that no matter what, he couldn't catch up to the Veno, so I suggested the best alternative.
  • Aurian - Harshlands
    Aurian - Harshlands Posts: 538 Arc User
    edited June 2009
    Aedus - Harshlands wrote: »
    At least [removed] wont have fail nixers flying around everywhere, pushing 1 button to **** anything in it's sight.

    Why do i think i said people will leaveb:chuckle
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Osiris - Dreamweaver
    Osiris - Dreamweaver Posts: 218 Arc User
    edited June 2009
    Aurian - Harshlands wrote: »
    Flesh realm in sawflys deals like 60 dmg -.-

    BS

    A sawflys basedamage at lvl 90 is 3297, which means a sawfly with lvl 5 fleshream deals 6594 damage over 9 seconds in 3 intervalls of 3 seconds.

    Thats 2198 damage per tick

    -->multiplied with the 'DoT formula-multiplier' (which is completly speculative and not proven in any way (X)) grants the sawfly still 1877 damage ticks (without decense reduction of course)
  • Aurian - Harshlands
    Aurian - Harshlands Posts: 538 Arc User
    edited June 2009
    Osiris - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    BS

    A sawflys basedamage at lvl 90 is 3297, which means a sawfly with lvl 5 fleshream deals 6594 damage over 9 seconds in 3 intervalls of 3 seconds.

    Thats 2198 damage per tick

    -->multiplied with the 'DoT formula-multiplier' (which is completly speculative and not proven in any way (X)) grants the sawfly still 1877 damage ticks (without decense reduction of course)

    I never got hit over 100 with sawflys bleed..
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Zuuka - Sanctuary
    Zuuka - Sanctuary Posts: 127 Arc User
    edited June 2009
    Aurian - Harshlands wrote: »
    I never got hit over 100 with sawflys bleed..

    Maybe they never upgraded Flesh Ream.
  • Aedus - Harshlands
    Aedus - Harshlands Posts: 201 Arc User
    edited June 2009
    *Wonders what special sales PWi has planned for September 22nd to help PWi maintain members*

    Maybe every class will get weapons which 1 shot everything, then PvP will be really fun, especially if you can buy it for $200, right?
  • LloydAsplund - Sanctuary
    LloydAsplund - Sanctuary Posts: 3,899 Arc User
    edited June 2009
    Aurian - Harshlands wrote: »
    I never got hit over 100 with sawflys bleed..

    Most venos who use sawflies for Pk only get level 1 flesh ream, and the sawfly is not always kept up to level. They just look for a cheap skill while they save for a nix.
    I was early taught to work as well as play,
    My life has been one long, happy holiday;
    Full of work and full of play-
    I dropped the worry on the way-
    And God was good to me everyday.
  • Zuuka - Sanctuary
    Zuuka - Sanctuary Posts: 127 Arc User
    edited June 2009
    Aedus - Harshlands wrote: »
    *Wonders what special sales PWi has planned for September 22nd to help PWi maintain members*

    Maybe every class will get weapons which 1 shot everything, then PvP will be really fun, especially if you can buy it for $200, right?

    Maintain members? If you're already thinking this way maybe you should just quit already.
  • IceJazmin - Heavens Tear
    IceJazmin - Heavens Tear Posts: 4,206 Arc User
    edited June 2009
    Aurian - Harshlands wrote: »
    Ye and most venos use robe. You win.
    Venos use robes if they are PvE (some are PvE and play in PvP but ok..very few). Venos in both LC and HL are mainlly LA or HA.

    I never claimed that all venos wear arcane, I just stated the amount of damage a regular hit does on a arcane veno....

    HA venos, if stated properly will be a pain, since they would be able to wear both arcane and HA level gear, giving them fairly high Mdef and insane Pdef. Although that is a very expensive and hard to pull build, so most likely the high level venos in HA know what they are doing as well.
    Too often we loose sight of life's simple pleasures. Remember, when someone annoys you, it takes 42 muscles in your face to frown, BUT, it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and slap that mother#$@%#^! upside the head.
  • Aedus - Harshlands
    Aedus - Harshlands Posts: 201 Arc User
    edited June 2009
    Zuuka - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Maintain members? If you're already thinking this way maybe you should just quit already.

    I have *Claps*
  • Zuuka - Sanctuary
    Zuuka - Sanctuary Posts: 127 Arc User
    edited June 2009
    Aedus - Harshlands wrote: »
    I have *Claps*

    Good for you.
  • Aedus - Harshlands
    Aedus - Harshlands Posts: 201 Arc User
    edited June 2009
    Zuuka - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Good for you.

    I know. *Licks a window*
  • Zuuka - Sanctuary
    Zuuka - Sanctuary Posts: 127 Arc User
    edited June 2009
    Aedus - Harshlands wrote: »
    I know. *Licks a window*

    You should clean that first.
  • eatwithspoons
    eatwithspoons Posts: 54 Arc User
    edited June 2009
    If this thread descends into one line troll responses I will be forced to move it to the Lower Depths. Just FYI
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  • Osiris - Dreamweaver
    Osiris - Dreamweaver Posts: 218 Arc User
    edited June 2009
    IceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    I am not saying it is effective, in the other hand, regular bow/sligshot/crossbow attack on a robe veno will do 3k+ damage without using any mana or chi either.....

    Wrong again, an archers normal attacks are a joke.

    Heres the maths for an lvl 90 archer with really good EQ

    Ranged PAtk = (1 + (2*Dex)/300 + Mastery Modifier) * (LVL + EQ Boni)

    Model EQ:

    Weapon: Blinding Radiance +8, 2g8
    Ring: 2x Ring of the Heavenly Lord
    Arrows: +75
    Charms: +120

    Min Weapon Damage: 670 + 100 + 260 + 2*40 + 2*110 + 75 + 120 = 1525
    Max Weapon Damage: 1562 + 100 + 260 + 2*40 + 2*110 + 75 + 120 = 2417

    Dex: 361 + 15 from blinding radiance +25 from other EQ = 401

    Mastery: 75% demon

    Min PAtk = (1 + (2*401)/300 + 0.75) * (1525 + 90) = 4.4233 * 1615 = 7144
    Max PAtk = (1 + (2*401)/300 + 0.75) * (2417 + 90) = 4.4233 * 1615 = 11089

    PVP multiplier: 0.25
    Robe defense multiplier: 0.77 (23% physical reduction (is that realistic?))

    7144 * 0.25 * 0.8 = 1375.22
    11089 * 0.25 * 0.8 = 2217.8

    ---> 1375.22 - 2217.8 hits on robes

    x2 for crit

    and remember: this archer has really really good equipment that has the price of many many phoenixes + charms and archers below lvl 90 usually don't have have +8 weapons + demon mastery.
  • WitchBurner - Sanctuary
    WitchBurner - Sanctuary Posts: 1,394 Arc User
    edited June 2009
    The robe defence looks a little low, mines around 32% at this level. With similar gear to the hypothetical archer they could easily attain 50% PDef with refines adding a minimum 1k to their hp.
    Currently flying internet spaceships around dodixie, moving to amarr soon.

    Send me a mail if you wanna ask/request anything

    Sanctuary's retired king of wizards alongside queen Saintblu.
  • GhostDuster - Heavens Tear
    GhostDuster - Heavens Tear Posts: 101 Arc User
    edited June 2009
    Aurian - Harshlands wrote: »
    Flesh realm in sawflys deals like 60 dmg -.-

    My sawfly's bleed does about 500-600 dmg per tick on a lvl 89 veno.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Osiris - Dreamweaver
    Osiris - Dreamweaver Posts: 218 Arc User
    edited June 2009
    Witchburner - Sanctuary wrote: »
    The robe defence looks a little low, mines around 32% at this level. With similar gear to the hypothetical archer they could easily attain 50% PDef with refines adding a minimum 1k to their hp.

    Are you sure? Because the the physical defence of arcane armor looks really low to me. Compared to the elemental defence heavy amor adds, the physical bonus from robes are really low.
  • WitchBurner - Sanctuary
    WitchBurner - Sanctuary Posts: 1,394 Arc User
    edited June 2009
    Well depends on levels and budget really. A full set of TT gold with bonuses sharded with PDef and refined for HP, it can be suprising how high it can go.
    Currently flying internet spaceships around dodixie, moving to amarr soon.

    Send me a mail if you wanna ask/request anything

    Sanctuary's retired king of wizards alongside queen Saintblu.
  • blindeyesniper
    blindeyesniper Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2009
    Aurian - Harshlands wrote: »
    But thats what i **** mean!
    They don't do anything about although they are able to (since all others version fixed it or prevented it).

    I don't know about other versions but PW China have Phoenixes that do the same thing as what we have here. I frequent Chinese PW forum and they did mention that it was fixed at one point but was reversed back to how it is now due to large complaints from players. You will also see the same QQ threads over there about Phoenixes so it's nothing new to them. Considering how long PW China has been up, I doubt that they will do anything about the bleed skill now.

    I heard at high levels (90+), bleed from a phoenix is a joke to heavy armor users. Anyone can shed some light on that?
  • OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear
    OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,327 Arc User
    edited June 2009
    I'd suggest going and playing Hello Kitty. I'd suggest Hello Kitty Extreme Edition, but I don't believe you're ready for it.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear
    OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,327 Arc User
    edited June 2009
    blindeyesniper wrote: »
    I heard at high levels (90+), bleed from a phoenix is a joke to heavy armor users. Anyone can shed some light on that?

    My guess would be a refined Heavy Armor set for much higher physical defense and higher health + socketed HP gems: higher DR on Flesh Ream and more HP to burn.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Michael - Harshlands
    Michael - Harshlands Posts: 348 Arc User
    edited June 2009
    Basically the after 9x nix bleed being a joke for HA users comes down to the fact that we have extremely high pdef

    Nix bleed does around twice its phys damage per tick

    As an 8x HA class I take 270-300 damage from a 9x nix's normal attack and 540-600 damage from FR this is ignorable as even purged and amped the nix cant solo kill me without the veno using their skills, for a HA class the only real threat is the veno with the nix merely assisting in ticking the charm and adding DPS. That being said fights with a veno my level devolve into me chasing them around while they run till I can either catch them long enough to stun (lol I so need more apocs for smack) and then hopefully kill them before the stunlock wears off (as once it does they will drop wings to take half damage even if I stun again). This repeats usually for about 10 minutes till one of us makes a mistake and dies.

    Heavy classes dont have alot to fear from a single nix, if the veno assists with their own attacks it can cause issues (needing to pop antistun pots, will of the bodhivista, sutra etc).

    Light and robe classes lack the pdef to effectively combat the nix though, which is why you will rarely see a HA player complaining about bleed as full damage in pvp or 25% its still not the biggest issue for a HA player. This doesnt mean it shouldnt be fixed for the benifit of the other classes though, everything else suffers the PvP damage reduction and hence for fairness so should the bleed skill for pets, for a good player it will have no effect on their ability to kill (the nix still does very impressive damage even without bleed on LA and robe classes) it will require more strategy on behalf of the veno as they wouldnt be able to be as lazy as they are now to win in pvp but using a LA or HA veno build with a good pet they will still be able to contribute extremely well in PvP.

    Yes people complain alot about the bleed damage and in most cases behind the whining part of the complaint there is a valid issue that should be addressed, the defensiveness on behalf of the venos is also expected as this will change how their class plays in PvP to a small extent, however for the community as a whole its required that bleed be addressed in some final sense either to make a change or to say that it wont be changed so people can make a decision on if its worth staying.

    Now continue with your "discussion" about fleshream if you must however the manner in which you approach a problem will effect how it can be resolved, reasoned discussion works effectively at determining what would be fair for both sides, however picking on small flaws in peoples words and being too close to the issue at hand both weaken your ability to rationally discuss the points at hand.

    Other issues of fleshream is the effect it has on the other pvp skills for pets like sacrifice, this is a powerful skill however due to pvp damage reduction and comparision to fleshream its actually much more rare to be used (and yes im aware its a dragon temple pet scroll) some venos include it on their pets as a 2ndary hit to allow higher DPS with their pets. If fleshream suffered the pvp damage reduction those venos looking for a higher damage skill would still be able to use sacrifice and it would even 1 shot various robe and some LA classes much like a single tick of bleed can atm. This would allow more variablility into PvP pets to balance out the lack of bleed a small (10%) or so increase to all pets damage could be applied to allow the use of other skills to still be effective for the venos without being overpowered.

    The major points for this issue are as follows (incase you dont bother to read the whole post)

    Why doesnt the pets fleshream get reduced for pvp?

    Should it be reduced like all other abilities for pvp?

    Is it a core part of the veno class that is essential for them to pvp effectively?

    If its not essential for the venos to have it then why shouldnt it be corrected to allow a broader range of pet skills to be used (in this case mainly focusing on bash, sacrifice, and the elemental attacks)?
  • chipsing1234
    chipsing1234 Posts: 205 Arc User
    edited June 2009
    **** reading this thread completely, it's another topic where venos try to defend themselves by skewing the reasoning system completely!
    As far as I know, no other class requires you to: use apoth pot/use genie skill/use healing pot/mash various buttons just to survive. Forget about "playing to the fullest potential," why should one class be able to press a key and force others to bend over backwards trying to not die?
    It's like saying guns aren't overpowered in a medieval battlefield because everyone should be carrying bulletproof vests.
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