Heaven (Sage) vs Hell (Demon)

Quilue - Sanctuary

:O this very same story!

Today I fought QuanTuKiem, who has a +12 GX, and +10 armor set with warsong belt and cube neck. He won the first round with a 5.8k crit as I tried to fly away (QQ), and I beat him the second time via sharptooth, ticking his charm, stun, and quickshot, hitting 5 of the last 8 shots via crit at ~2k dmg/hit. I had an epic debuff that proc'ed just as he tried to self-buff, nullifying it before I even saw the icon. Yes, this time I recorded it, and will be thrown in on the next vid

unfortunately i only hit about 500 on bms my lvl

hemoglobin

missqq wrote: »

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that was sexy

rinuruc

how much critrate does an archer of your pure demon build have???

Demoiselle - Lost City

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

I think my poison arrow might be level 2.

I feel like a fail archer now T_T

Same here b:cry

Have to say i found this guide very interesting , nice heads up

Zelinity - Lost City

HAI DEMO! b:bye

Hippie - Harshlands

This skill is much better than heaven because the only time you will be using it is in tw. When you open zhen you have bunch of blue **** which eerily look like arrows pointing at you saying: "STUN THIS FGT" You need to deal damage fast. Most people stun the zhenner so the 33% damage reduction can pz. Only time heaven is better is if you are facing bloodlust and they are continuously spamming their paralyze skills on your open zhen. DONT WORRY BLOODLUST ILL BE SURE NOT TO RUN WITH MY ZHEN OPEN.

idk wth is bloodlust, but i am still laughing on that shet : ))

btw i got sage ea buff from fb99, pls dont make everyone go demon so i can sell it : (( any lolsage ea interested?!

Noveriot - Heavens Tear

*LOVES THREAD* b:dirty

Even though Im not close to level 90 I feel prepared :P
Thanks alot, made my world a lot less confuzeld..

---

(off topic)

AHH *beeep*

Has level 5 (? I think) Vicious Arrow <
Read something wrong... b:sad
(Had level 1 until about level 37ish....)

I = Fail.

rukasuu

I hope this is a sticky.... If not I wanna bump cuz its so praw. I wont start playing this game for a few months (Gathering data first) but this is sure to help xD.

ewingoil

I thought this thread was long buried.

swiiftshadow

Devoted - Lost City wrote: »

-Quickshot
-Lightning Strike
-Sharptooth
-Stun
-Wingspan
-Wings of protection
-Barrage of arrows
-Thundershock
-Winged blessing

I am new to the game... and i decided to follow this build....

but the skills you listed... they all should be maxed as soon as i hit the right level? and other skills aren't needed?

Shadowvzs - Lost City

Suiryujin - Sanctuary wrote: »

mmm it would be a nice guide and good argument but the word choice makes it fails.
the word choice makes it more like a QQ post than a real fully developed arguement. i already planed to go demon and still am, but well urg...anger mangement class plzb:bye
5/10 for bad languageb:laugh

or he never played with heaven archer or he failed XD

1st: archer not chi needed char? how the hell u kill a barb or bm? not with 3rd spark, or metal skill(thunder shock need chi) or keep the distance with immobilize what eat again 1 spark?

2nd: maybe i am sucks ea but with sage vigor gainer i can slowdown the catapuller and stunner bm's in tw. how? with frost arrow if stun on cooldown and dont have 1 spark.

(yea frost arrow have sucks dmg on light armor ep with barrier but still better than normal hit,and nice if it crit)

3rd:
hell vs heaven...
or i am damn lucky or idk but most of demon ea suck with pure agi/dex and similiar eq vs a good heaven because we dont forget the 3spark during dailies when we out to battle field.i suck from con/vit demon builds only,pure dex demons are really easy,same a light veno.

yea demon is nice too ofc, but its mainly ur play style depend, my life was saved alot times with 3rd sage spark when i fought with veno or demon ea, its not uber,just helpfull. ofc demon give more attack speed but fact, i use skills with sage.


if u failed with sage ea is ur fail,but every way(sage/demon) is balanced,only u must find ur style.


this reply to this bs http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=2422381&postcount=1

about what skill usefull:

important

Winged Shell - mainly in begining good mana recovery and later too recover enough mana for 1 another skill
Lightning Strike - no comment, base thing for a good ea
Thunder Shock - no comment, base thing for a good ea
Sharpened Tooth Arrow - this 1 reason why u are welcome in tt
Take Aim - cheap and not bad starter skill at low lv and in backstabbing (i prefered this)
Stunning Arrow - u cant live without stun in pvp (ok you can,but stun give a very good advantage when u backstab or in 1vs1)
Aim Low - usefull
Deadly Shot - when u can get enough sp or ur Take Aim is low lv, mainly similiar slow casting skill with nuke power,more accurated than Take Aim because its less eq dmg depend
Wings of Protection - not a uber important thing but u got only 1 group buff,then u can max it out
Wings of Grace - great skill and only lv1.
Masteries - obviosly its important
Barrage of Arrows - you can max out but only if you do territorial war, else not too important (in zhen too agro stealer and mana eater)


You can keep at low lv until u dont got too much sp, around 8x

Quickshot - if u go to demon patch u must learn but at 8x its pretty low sp cost, dont will be painly,until in low lv not too usefull
Thunderous Blast - its good skill really but in begining the other 2 metal skill more important,use it mainly for territorial war/group pk in pve when a bm/barb lure and stun or keep the agro combined with sharp.
Winged Pledge - its good, but u dont must max out same like Wingspan, later when u cant do nothing with sp than can max out both
Wingspan - in pve and in pvp too usefull in group pk,when wizz or other class go near u,combined with Winged Pledge
Blazing Arrow - its mainly only if u use alot the normal shot
Frost Arrow - only if u go to heaven way (mainly i used to slowdown the suicide rambo bm's,catapullers and LA cleric with barrier because if heaven the clearic barrier dont absorb from that nothing,but only if metals are in cooldown)

You can keep at lv1, if u very boring u can max out

Knockback Arrow - same knockback distance at lv1 than at lv10
Stormrage Eagleon - rarely usefull
Serrated Arrow - ****
Vicious Arrow -same **** XD

truekossy

Shadowvzs - Lost City wrote: »

You can keep at low lv until u dont got too much sp, around 8x

Blazing Arrow - its mainly only if u use alot the normal shot
Frost Arrow - only if u go to heaven way (mainly i used to slowdown the suicide rambo bm's,catapullers and LA cleric with barrier because if heaven the clearic barrier dont absorb from that nothing,but only if metals are in cooldown)

You don't seem to have any real clue what you're talking about from this alone. Therefore, your opinion here is null and void.


Good day to you.

Olba - Sanctuary

truekossy wrote: »

You don't seem to have any real clue what you're talking about from this alone. Therefore, your opinion here is null and void.


Good day to you.

Looks like that poster wasn't thinking of PvE, or is, as you said, a clueless skill-spammer.

Devoted - Lost City

blazing arrow is still awesomesauce for pvp

Shadowvzs - Lost City

truekossy wrote: »

You don't seem to have any real clue what you're talking about from this alone. Therefore, your opinion here is null and void.


Good day to you.

maybe u dont have clue, i am not a zhen/exp scroll manic kid who lving without learning.

holy blazing arrow do ~400-600 dmg with tt90(not tested yet with tt99), with fury dont will be higher,still 4xx. A bit weird when a charged blast/deadly shot crit is 20k+ and u start talking how usefull when the fire dmg addon work ONLY with normal hit. Yes 10hit is 4k, but any mob survive 10hit in ur lv? If yes then ur dmg really crapp.
When u go to tt alot times? ~lv80(why? at lv80 you can go to more dungeon and for tt80 set need more mat, same for weapon until for tt70 u must collect just 4x5 mat for green tt armor and 5 for weapon what is pretty less compared with tt80 stuff or tt90 or tt99). What i said,when worth the lv up?
Oh in pvp deal 100-150dmg max,so gl xD

dear friend,dont forget blazing arrow dont have any relationship with ur base pattack, only with ur weapon and ring dmg (eq dmg) and after this if u are in tt then u have level penalty in dmg (boss lv150) and (in normal mob case too) have fire def what again reduce that low dmg. go to 99 and check on physical immune boss how great ur dmg on him with blazing arrow and in pvp after this 2 factor have 1/4 dmg reduction b:bye

if u dont belive then u free to test it:
important is the lv difference, fire def, pvp 1/4 dmg factor and u can count your 2*ring pattack and weapon pattack.

comclusion blazing arrow worth ONLY for long boss killing, because mobs die too fast and in pvp usefull but pretty less effect still u dont refine ur weapon, what i doubt before lv80 or 90.

Frost arrow usefull until u dont have stun, later more usefull a barrier+stun(nearly u always have enough chi for barrier, and u get back the mana for stun and absorb the mob 1,2hit, mob die before u lose a visible amount of hp,ok later dont need stun, ur dmg is enough)
instead frost arrow have alot non vigor leecher solution.

sry but i am not a potion wore and skill spammer in pve, and excuse me if i dont failed in pvp like few ppl who play half year with archer and think he know everything.

Olba - Sanctuary

Shadowvzs - Lost City wrote: »

holy blazing arrow do ~400-600 dmg with tt90(not tested yet with tt99), with fury dont will be higher,still 4xx. A bit weird when a charged blast/deadly shot crit is 20k+ and u start talking how usefull when the fire dmg addon work ONLY with normal hit. Yes 10hit is 4k, but any mob survive 10hit in ur lv? If yes then ur dmg really crapp.
When u go to tt alot times? ~lv80(why? at lv80 you can go to more dungeon and for tt80 set need more mat, same for weapon until for tt70 u must collect just 4x5 mat for green tt armor and 5 for weapon what is pretty less compared with tt80 stuff or tt90 or tt99). What i said,when worth the lv up?
Oh in pvp deal 100-150dmg max,so gl xD

It was proven via tests that Blazing Arrow works on all skills that only use 1 arrow.

And btw, since it adds 40% damage, if you're getting +600 max, then that means you're maxing out at 1,500 damage, which really is pathetic. Unless, of course, you are adding resistances or PvP penalties.

Frost arrow usefull until u dont have stun, later more usefull a barrier+stun(nearly u always have enough chi for barrier, and u get back the mana for stun and absorb the mob 1,2hit, mob die before u lose a visible amount of hp,ok later dont need stun, ur dmg is enough)
instead frost arrow have alot non vigor leecher solution.

Um, Frost Arrows costs 25 Chi, Winged Shell costs 45 Chi and you talk about losing Chi? Ouch, that's some pretty wickedly messed up math. Also, a lvl 10 Stunning Arrow costs 225 mana.

sry but i am not a potion wore and skill spammer in pve, and excuse me if i dont failed in pvp like few ppl who play half year with archer and think he know everything.

Yeah, say that when Asterelle gets here.

Shadowvzs - Lost City

Olba - Sanctuary wrote: »

It was proven via tests that Blazing Arrow works on all skills that only use 1 arrow.

And btw, since it adds 40% damage, if you're getting +600 max, then that means you're maxing out at 1,500 damage, which really is pathetic. Unless, of course, you are adding resistances or PvP penalties.


Um, Frost Arrows costs 25 Chi, Winged Shell costs 45 Chi and you talk about losing Chi? Ouch, that's some pretty wickedly messed up math. Also, a lvl 10 Stunning Arrow costs 225 mana.



Yeah, say that when Asterelle gets here.

frost arrow vs barrier:
i dont missed on math.
25 vs 45 but u forget that, if u use stunning arrow then u gain chi + after stun u still use normal arrow so ur chi gone back

lv11 barrier is 400 mana and recover back 800 mana so 400mana profit same time after mob died u got back that chi too.

about blazing arrow i have 60% fire addon and still max 400-600 dmg on physical immune boss in hades event(with a lv90 ea at lv90 xbow, after that i dont tested anymore), not on paper, because mob have x% fire absorb (not 1-2%).
when u use 3rd spark u got same low fire addon because ur eq dmg dont changed only ur base pattack.

Ussichu - Sanctuary

genies have made a sage's chi gaining skill pretty pointless. Learn cloud eruption and get 50 magic and you get 1 spark every 35 seconds. (granted it does require using a genie skill)

Shadowvzs - Lost City

Ussichu - Sanctuary wrote: »

genies have made a sage's chi gaining skill pretty pointless. Learn cloud eruption and get 50 magic and you get 1 spark every 35 seconds. (granted it does require using a genie skill)

genie give + attack speed too...

but dont forget u cant cast unlimited skill with genie, u must wait for recovery.

i dont waste my genie for that. amplify-20%more dmg/mud-pdef debuff/protection- that heal sht/freeze - occult ice could be more usefull and other skills instead waste genie for chi/att speed. ur choose whatever.

Quilue - Sanctuary

you're not realistically going to channel sage li's technique in the middle of a fight either. so you can use your poison/ToP/freeze whatever in battle and use cloud eruption outside of battle on a 2nd genie and it'd be almost like the same thing as being sage.

Panthalassa - Dreamweaver

If archers are meant to kite, then I'd rather kite while dealing more damage. That's why I use DoTs. If that makes me a "fail archer" then so be it. All I can say is QQ moar. b:bye

Shadowvzs - Lost City

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

you're not realistically going to channel sage li's technique in the middle of a fight either. so you can use your poison/ToP/freeze whatever in battle and use cloud eruption outside of battle on a 2nd genie and it'd be almost like the same thing as being sage.

i dont got what u mean. sage chi gainer is for free prepare the battle,same the demon too is useless during battle or time wasteing, and useing a genie only for chi is fuel wasteing (maybe u do with same genie the 25% dmg reduction too?), i can use potion too for chi but still not same. u cant reduce the heaven to normal+chi

its a different play style............

I use DoTs

in pve after lv19 i dont really was forced to kiteing..

in pk vs a 9x the lv10 dots skills do pretty low dmg..............

truekossy

Shadowvzs - Lost City wrote: »

i dont got what u mean. sage chi gainer is for free prepare the battle

It's called Awaken. Level 100 skill that, ya know, gives you full chi? Your chi gain has just been rendered null and void.

Quilue - Sanctuary

Incarnata - Harshlands wrote: »

Ok, now I am curious: is ecatomb wrong about how long master li's technique takes?

neither of the chi skills are instantaneous. if it was you'd think people would be spamming Mo Zun's Taunt more in battle

Shadowvzs - Lost City

truekossy wrote: »

It's called Awaken. Level 100 skill that, ya know, gives you full chi? Your chi gain has just been rendered null and void.

yes if u have already 1spark, and during battle obviously who get faster. But with this u dont killed the sage side, i mean holy not = vigor and thats all.
Our technic diff. too, we get more advantage from skill spam, we try nuke, hell get more advantage from speed and etc.

Dragon_slayr - Sanctuary

I don't understand what point you are trying to make. I have an archer-and we kill most mobs before they reach us and there is no need for using skills.
There is a lvl 20-30 quest in which once completed you get a helmet as a reward. Helmets don't slow you down or anything-they increase your protection. Though it is not necessary for an archer to wear one. The fact is (from your Quilue's point of view) that archers are terrible...and there's nothing we can do about itb:cute

Shadowvzs - Lost City

Dragon_slayr - Sanctuary wrote: »

I don't understand what point you are trying to make. I have an archer-and we kill most mobs before they reach us and there is no need for using skills.
There is a lvl 20-30 quest in which once completed you get a helmet as a reward. Helmets don't slow you down or anything-they increase your protection. Though it is not necessary for an archer to wear one. The fact is (from your Quilue's point of view) that archers are terrible...and there's nothing we can do about itb:cute

i replied to frost arrow is importance since easily replaceable and for other skill and u dont lose chi and mana if u must do any skill else why few ppl think its important? for sage not important but could be usefull in few case and very very cheap skill so not a big money waste the buying and learning the skill.
http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=6084902&postcount=283
in low lv fire addon is pretty low, u kill faster the mob than fire addon do a nice dmg, later its better, and this is my point because few other skill have higher priority in begning.

its similiar than few ppl say sage sharp is for pve skill... since when?
sharp is sucks against mobs, its -20% xp/sharped mob, its really great the loseing -20% exp. only agaist longer boss and in tw do something (in tw mainly cause long range physical aoe)

archers terrible?
i dont noticed that. at high lv the def not too shiny is true but i cant say they are terrible because they got weak point.

freedomshadow

Wait.How can u crit 5 times in 3 attacks??!!

Panthalassa - Dreamweaver

freedomshadow wrote: »

Wait.How can u crit 5 times in 3 attacks??!!

Time travel. Archers are so good at math that they can send arrows backwards in time.

Shadowvzs - Lost City

freedomshadow wrote: »

Wait.How can u crit 5 times in 3 attacks??!!

i dont know how comeing this here...

but with 1 attack u can crit more, example in 89 we aoe grinded the mobs and was 6mob, with 1 sharp i made crit on 5mob (and on 1 i missed XD), but still i dont got how coming this here without quote.