Heaven (Sage) vs Hell (Demon)

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Comments

  • Tearvalerin - Sanctuary
    Tearvalerin - Sanctuary Posts: 3,787 Arc User
    edited August 2009
    StormHydra - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Lmfao bacon axes.
    Im gonna get them
    have you seen stupid wizzeled, archer with enough str to use calamities -_-
  • Quilue - Sanctuary
    Quilue - Sanctuary Posts: 5,787 Arc User
    edited August 2009
    wtf wizzeled restated his way to use calamities? think of the zerk crits! b:chuckle
    Elena Costel: I wash my hands of this affair.
    Legerity: *drags you back* *stains your hands with said affair*
    Elena Costel: Noooo... I don't want to have a dirty affair with Lady Legerity...
    Qui: b:dirty
  • Legerity - Sanctuary
    Legerity - Sanctuary Posts: 1,072 Arc User
    edited August 2009
    Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »
    wtf wizzeled restated his way to use calamities? think of the zerk crits! b:chuckle

    No, just restat to HA. Last I saw he had 2 HA pieces so I wouldn't be surprised if he had enough str to use calamities b:chuckle
  • Olba - Sanctuary
    Olba - Sanctuary Posts: 1,776 Arc User
    edited August 2009
    Legerity - Sanctuary wrote: »
    No, just restat to HA. Last I saw he had 2 HA pieces so I wouldn't be surprised if he had enough str to use calamities b:chuckle

    When I was shopping for a W&C, I specially got one of the ones that Wizzeled was selling at the time. Now I have "Manufactured by Wizzeled" Wind and the Clouds. Maybe some of his godliness will rub off on me now?
    If you disregard what I say because of who I am or because of the contents of what I said, you are a fool.

    Everyone wants to be different, but when you're different you wish you were normal.
  • HowlinWolf - Harshlands
    HowlinWolf - Harshlands Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited August 2009
    HELP! lol i wish ur guide was totally complete i love ur i hate u attitude so can you please tell me how to make me a good archer im restarting my archer i feel as if it is really crappy can u tell me which skill i need, also im gonna go Pure tyvm b:pleased
  • Tearvalerin - Sanctuary
    Tearvalerin - Sanctuary Posts: 3,787 Arc User
    edited August 2009
    4 dex 1 str, dont use slingshots, go demon, win.
  • BowCrazy - Harshlands
    BowCrazy - Harshlands Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited August 2009
    Tearvalerin - Sanctuary wrote: »
    4 dex 1 str, dont use slingshots, go demon, win.

    could u also tell me all the good skils that i should keep maxed i don't want to have to restart again
  • Tearvalerin - Sanctuary
    Tearvalerin - Sanctuary Posts: 3,787 Arc User
    edited August 2009
    look on PW wiki
  • BowCrazy - Harshlands
    BowCrazy - Harshlands Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited August 2009
    k ok i will ty for the help i'll just use my old friend google to find PW wiki :D
  • BoredQQ - Harshlands
    BoredQQ - Harshlands Posts: 37 Arc User
    edited August 2009
    9/02/09jhgjhgjh
  • Wizzeled - Sanctuary
    Wizzeled - Sanctuary Posts: 747 Arc User
    edited August 2009
    I'm sexy like that :P

    My calams rocked :D
  • Dominatiger - Sanctuary
    Dominatiger - Sanctuary Posts: 1,066 Arc User
    edited August 2009
    lmao... this one have reasons to tell that archers are weak^^
    Happy Sauce face

    ಪ_ಪ
    Manufactured by Konariraiden
  • Wizzeled - Sanctuary
    Wizzeled - Sanctuary Posts: 747 Arc User
    edited August 2009
    Dominatiger - Sanctuary wrote: »
    lmao... this one have reasons to tell that archers are weak^^

    English plz?
  • jokerxdude
    jokerxdude Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2009
    Wizzeled - Sanctuary wrote: »
    English plz?

    I know you. You spam Sanctuary all the time.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Why So Stupid?

    Want a darker race? A race fighting for their humanity?
    Go here
    > pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=656132 You know you want to.

    Anime! Anime! Oh PW Anime!
    Coming Soon...
  • Dominatiger - Sanctuary
    Dominatiger - Sanctuary Posts: 1,066 Arc User
    edited August 2009
    Wizzeled - Sanctuary wrote: »
    English plz?

    it means you failed to kill a Barb from your levelb:cute

    but thats natural... barbs kill LA :P
    Happy Sauce face

    ಪ_ಪ
    Manufactured by Konariraiden
  • Wizzeled - Sanctuary
    Wizzeled - Sanctuary Posts: 747 Arc User
    edited August 2009
    Dominatiger - Sanctuary wrote: »
    it means you failed to kill a Barb from your levelb:cute

    but thats natural... barbs kill LA :P

    I also stood still when I shouldn't have.
  • OneHottShot - Heavens Tear
    OneHottShot - Heavens Tear Posts: 704 Arc User
    edited August 2009
    I read nothing after the first few lines. The language you use is not necessary to get any point across. Rage and anger can be controlled.
  • Devoted - Lost City
    Devoted - Lost City Posts: 3,634 Arc User
    edited August 2009
    Now that we are aware of oneshothott's opinion on my PG13 graphic language we can continue on. She won't get this far into my post so I can start using bad words like noia. :o
  • kalden
    kalden Posts: 18 Arc User
    edited August 2009
    I just came across this topic and I didnt read all the posts. I'll mention a bit about the Heaven Archer. Heaven Archer, usually pure dex, are surprising strong in pvp TW. They usually doesn't use skill to hit opponents in TW but rather they use normal attacks. Their equipments focus on attack speed which is common sense. A surprise attack from Heaven archers is something worth noting. So thats it. b:bye
  • Progrinder - Dreamweaver
    Progrinder - Dreamweaver Posts: 71 Arc User
    edited August 2009
    whats the difference ona haven archer non using skill and a demon archer that dont use skill?b:surrender
  • Holy_Zero - Heavens Tear
    Holy_Zero - Heavens Tear Posts: 7 Arc User
    edited August 2009
    Nice Job xD
    "Follow The Light To Find Your Dreams Of The Future"
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • TigerLily - Lost City
    TigerLily - Lost City Posts: 1,209 Arc User
    edited August 2009
    kalden wrote: »
    I just came across this topic and I didnt read all the posts. I'll mention a bit about the Heaven Archer. Heaven Archer, usually pure dex, are surprising strong in pvp TW. They usually doesn't use skill to hit opponents in TW but rather they use normal attacks. Their equipments focus on attack speed which is common sense. A surprise attack from Heaven archers is something worth noting. So thats it. b:bye

    I think you mixed up heaven and hell archers lol.
    Heaven archer is the nuker/skill spammer and hell is interval/auto shoots/crits.

    Heaven does not have any skills that adds faster attack or crits to boots auto attacks. Heaven is really more of a skill spammer, specially metal skills to take out BM/barbs, since they have endless chi.

    Hell on the other hand has spark that adds faster attack, stun arrow and ST adds crits to normal shoots, and quick shoots adds attack speed.

    All archers benefits from interval gear tho, both heaven and hell.
  • kalden
    kalden Posts: 18 Arc User
    edited August 2009
    TigerLily - Lost City wrote: »
    I think you mixed up heaven and hell archers lol.
    Heaven archer is the nuker/skill spammer and hell is interval/auto shoots/crits.

    Heaven does not have any skills that adds faster attack or crits to boots auto attacks. Heaven is really more of a skill spammer, specially metal skills to take out BM/barbs, since they have endless chi.

    Hell on the other hand has spark that adds faster attack, stun arrow and ST adds crits to normal shoots, and quick shoots adds attack speed.

    All archers benefits from interval gear tho, both heaven and hell.


    True, Hell's archer has better crits than Heaven's but Heaven full dex ain't that bad in crit either. The reason I mentioned why Heaven uses normal dmg to hit is because as u max your attack speed you will find that using normal attacks will do much more dmg than skill spamming. Adding into account Heaven's passive and with pure dex over 20% crit.

    In my previous post, I wrote my opinion on Heaven Archer "only" so it's right to say both side benefits from increased attack speed.

    And It seem I made a mistake by writing "don't usually use skill to hit opponents in TW" since everyone is different. And different situation requires different tactics.

    Good day b:bye

    Edit: I forgot to add Heaven brazing arrow.
  • kenera
    kenera Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited August 2009
    heaven archers need to drop dead in end game they're effectively useless compared to the hell alternative.

    spike damage... that's what archers are about... apparently chi gaining skills in pwi are apparently so important that you would sacrifice the great effects on the hell skills...

    archers are not dependant on chi, there are only one or two chi skills that would be considered valuable, the rest are normal skills and normal shots

    and some of the hell skills have accuracy included...

    in tw there are only a few skills that you would actually need to use, its a no-brainer archers aren't complicated and dont need fancy tactics...

    u got a heavy, take him down with lightning attacks, robe use normal shots, that's it... the rest is up to your gear and build
  • seibot
    seibot Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited August 2009
    i would have read the full guide if it wasn't so darn arrogant b:bye
    what u programmed pwi and someone stole your program notes or something? b:lipcurl
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Devoted - Lost City
    Devoted - Lost City Posts: 3,634 Arc User
    edited August 2009
    seibot wrote: »
    i would have read the full guide if it wasn't so darn arrogant b:bye
    what u programmed pwi and someone stole your program notes or something? b:lipcurl

    yes :<

    asdasd
  • Tostitos - Dreamweaver
    Tostitos - Dreamweaver Posts: 9 Arc User
    edited August 2009
    I'm very glad I came across this in time to decide I want to make an archer as an alternate character. I skimmed through this more or less, but I'm bookmarking this as a guide on what to do and not to do. :3
  • Tomiko - Heavens Tear
    Tomiko - Heavens Tear Posts: 416 Arc User
    edited August 2009
    Just wanted to say devoted is an idiot. Thanks drive through.
  • Devoted - Lost City
    Devoted - Lost City Posts: 3,634 Arc User
    edited August 2009
    Tomiko - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Just wanted to say devoted is an idiot. Thanks drive through.

    o_______________o






























































































































    flawless argument
  • SouL_HunteR - Sanctuary
    SouL_HunteR - Sanctuary Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited August 2009
    arr I seriously, SERIOUSLY hate it when I read all 21 pages of a thread that tells me that my decision to go heaven is wrong. I DIDNT GO SAGE YET LOL, since I just turned 89 and am still in serious doubt as to which one do I choose. Most ppl in faction tell me to go demon, but then most of those ppl aren't archers and I know a few archers myself who wish they chose sage.

    For the benefit of all, I made a table with all skills and sage/demon bonuses that i myself use to quickly compare various things, and its here:

    http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0ArBzdo-PbDUxdFVJU0MwSmNrZVMtZTNDWHliZDFISVE&hl=en

    Now regarding heaven choice - since I never PvP (yes i like being a blue carebearb:victory), my only PvP experience comes from TW(a lot of it).
    I thought heaven was better because it is really really annoying to have to tap your aim low/BoA hotkey only to finally notice that u ran out of chi and swear endlessly while watching wizard zip away or a group of support clerics dispersing all around the catas. So 50 chi might help there.

    Usually in Tw, I fight clerics/wizzies or cover anti-BM/DD squads. In any case, my 5 most popular skills are take aim, stun, BoA, sharp tooth and deadly shot.

    The most important skill from heaven seems to me to be take aim - I hope that it will replace deadly shot as my robe finishing skill. Also, the stun's 4.5s are arguably quite a bit more important then ppl realize. Why? Because when killing cleric/wiz I usually follow a similar pattern(unless i know the target to have tons of hp or some weakness):

    Stun->deadly->(sometimes tap take aim for a super fast normal dmg shot)->quickshot->retreat or normal attack if person not dead lol.


    Admittedly, stun would help here in both hell and sage versions. However, the biggest issue with clerics is that they pop in plume shield as soon as their stun wears off, which happens about when deadly is done casting and away. If I were to cast take aim right after deadly, that would mean cleric has only 1.5s to get the plume shield up - it is plausible that due to lag or w/e, that wont happen. And since sage take aim is so powerful, there is a good chance to take cleric out right there, especially if its arcane build.

    Now the counter argument is very good too. Admittedly, 10% crit is very very useful, since for me stun is almost always the opening move against robe users or anyone coming for me. People have done math for me before , so I wont start doing any again. It suffices to say that the 10% is marginally better than the 4.5s duration, however my point is to prove that the extra 1s is quite useful as well.

    Now however we come to the point where sage rocks - chi. Where would you use chi? Of course, there arent as many uses as a wizard might find for it, but still plenty. Example: in TW nixes account for maybe 70% of my deaths. Most of the time i dont have an extra spark to use wings of grace. However, with sage i will get 1 extra spark every 2 minutes, meaning that when this nix is again coming for me and I only have 20 chi from my 2 self buffs, I can stun it, shoot it a couple times, use chi skill->wings of grace->run with 30% bonus and 33% reduced damage of nix flesh ream->if nix is still after me, then i holy path away and and flank the veno for some sweet revenge.


    Regarding hell spark, relentless courage can substitute the +25% attack spd., BUT in any case, if i happen to somehow get 3 spark in tw(which would be faster with sage), then i would 1-spark, shoot 1 arrow to get to 2 sparks, and barrage the m..ckers as long as i can, which is usually only 3-8 rounds before some bm comes along and stuns me. I, in fact, cant really recall anyone sparking in TW. Thats about the same as starting BoA - a sign saying 'plz kill/stun/do smt bad to me'. I mean how bad would it suck to triple spark, only to have bm run up and stun lock your **** for 10s? Prb just as bad as having been stunned only after 2 rounds of barrage, but then at least some damage would be done.


    Anyways, there are many other points to argue about both choices, but my main question is - does crit REALLY matter than much. Also, is that the main and possibly only advantage of demon path? I mean there are only a handful of people who have those skills, and the rest are just doing theory, which as we all know can have no connection to reality. In any case, enjoy my table and hopefully ill make up my mind b4 this weekend's TW.

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