Think venomancers are overpowered? Please read.

Solandri - Heavens Tear

Zoe - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Well, they ruin things by driving up all the prices. How can they NOT be hated?

You're thinking of speculators in the real world.

In the game world, if people didn't sell stuff to my cat shop, they'd sell it to the NPCs and the game world would be deprived of the items forever. The supply of items in the market would thus be reduced, so their prices would be even higher if I weren't merchanting.

chipsing1234

Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »

They are citing a theory (that venos are not the best at PvP) and providing a statistic which backs it up.

You are citing a theory (that venos are overpowered, but don't top the PvP charts because PvPers like to play archers more) and providing nothing to back it up.

See the difference? I can sit on my chair all day and come up with theories why anything everyone says is flawed. But it all means jack squat unless I provide some evidence to back up what I say. It's impossible to prove a negative. If you theorize that reindeer can fly, I can collect every reindeer alive and push them off a cliff. I will not have proven that reindeer can't fly - maybe they chose not to fly for some reason. The burden of proof is on you, as the one advocating the theory that reindeer can fly (or in this case that PvPers prefer playing archers rather than overpowered venos), to come up with evidence to support your theory. It is not up to others to disprove your theory.

I never insisted that archers like PvPing better was the reason they topped the charts. I merely suggested that could be a reason. There are too many variables in a measurement like that.
And again, you're mingling the PvP discussion with venos in general discussion. When we talk about PvP with venos, it's nearly always about venos with phoenix. Granted, venos with other pets aren't that great at PvP. But if phoenix venos simply don't PvP as much as the entire archer PvP community, of course there are going to be more archers on the list. This "theory" (phoenix venos likely PvE more) is in part supported in the fact that it is known phoenixs eat through mobs, resulting in faster grinding, and therefore leveling.
Using the list as the primary means to disprove all of my arguments is also a fallacy: supporting one point doesn't disprove the rest. It doesn't address venos soloing TT, grinding faster than other classes, or any other advantage only venos have. And I think you know how much power money holds.

chipsing1234

I'm out, see your post later.

Zoe - Heavens Tear

Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »

You're thinking of speculators in the real world.

In the game world, if people didn't sell stuff to my cat shop, they'd sell it to the NPCs and the game world would be deprived of the items forever. The supply of items in the market would thus be reduced, so their prices would be even higher if I weren't merchanting.

I don't mean just buying or selling. I mean buying it low simply to sell it higher. It drives up prices.

Solandri - Heavens Tear

chipsing1234 wrote: »

I never insisted that archers like PvPing better was the reason they topped the charts. I merely suggested that could be a reason.

And until you can come up with evidence supporting that theory (sorry, "suggestion"), the folks arguing that you're wrong have the upper hand. Look, I'm not saying their stats and arguments are 100% true. Personally I actually think you're right on this point (and that the phoenix has not been in the game long enough to dramatically impact class rankings). But you can't just suggest a theory and consider that to be ample refutation of the evidence provided by the opposition. You have to come up with some methodology and some numbers to show why your theory is right.

For example, my theory (that the phoenix hasn't been in the game long enough) should be borne out with time. Veno rankings in PvP should increase over time. If they don't, then my theory was wrong. If they do, then it increases the chances that my theory is right.

There are too many variables in a measurement like that.

Ah yes, the age-old argument of people who don't like it when real stats don't substantiate their point of view. If the PvP and level stats showed venos on top, you would've been harping it over and over.

But if phoenix venos simply don't PvP as much as the entire archer PvP community, of course there are going to be more archers on the list. This "theory" is supported in the fact that it is known phoenixs eat through mobs, resulting in faster grinding, and therefore leveling.

The lists of top levels on the servers does not support that theory. In fact what the lists seem to show is that at early to mid levels venos level quickest (Sanctuary, the youngest server, has the highest number of venos in the top levels). But at high levels the other classes (and particularly archers) catch up and surpass venos at leveling.

Using the list as the primary means to disprove all of my arguments is also a fallacy: supporting one point doesn't disprove the rest. It doesn't address venos soloing TT, grinding faster than other classes. And I think you know how much power money holds.

I already showed how anyone can make more money than a veno grinding.

Isala - Sanctuary

Solbrio - Sanctuary wrote: »

I put around $200 into the game in the last month...but I didn't buy a Nix, or a Herc b:surrender

cuz I thought this was like that Barbie game and bought all kinda fashion stuff for my cute lil kitty veno b:cute

some of you take this GAME really to seriously. What ever happened to playing to just have some fun? b:question

You should see my pet bag some times... I have fun by catching pets that most venos don't even look at. Although.... You get some weird diamonds in the rough when you do it... Just caught a Petalii Hexkiss the other day simply because it was there. Imagine my surprise when I checked its stats. It's a high speed evasion pet. Runs at 9.0 and has Toxic Mist 5, and Slow 3... That thing can outrun and slow down almost anything... I think I'll be using her for PvP as soon as I teach her Fireball and Thunderbolt. No, I'm not going to **** with Flesh Ream. I play a high damage in a short amount of time method. Having to wait for a dot just isn't my style. Plus, I'm going to do it simply because, you know... I CAN. That's how I have my fun. Weird pets, that don't have flesh ream, that dominate the opposition.

OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear

Zoe - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I don't mean just buying or selling. I mean buying it low simply to sell it higher. It drives up prices.

It can only drive the price up if a few events happen:

1. No one ever sells them for the low price.

2. Everyone else raises their price.

3. The players wanting to get the price increased keep buying out anyone who sells around a certain price which can get costly if their own goods at the higher selling price never sell, or doesn't sell that quickly.

4. A lot of players see the higher prices and decide to sell theirs at the same price.

5. Everyone who buys the items agrees that the items are worth buying at what they are being sold at.


If I missed something in there someplace or left something out, like the hand of god turning everyone into sheep, my apologies.

***

While it is true that prices can go up over time due to the actions of players, the opposing truth is that players sell items to gain coin so they can in turn buy items they need, and if the price they are selling at is too high and the rate of sales too slow to gain the coins they need they will have to drop their price until they start selling at a rate they find acceptable.

EDIT:

Wow, how'd buying and selling end up in this thread?

dieseasily

chipsing1234 wrote: »

I never insisted that archers like PvPing better was the reason they topped the charts. I merely suggested that could be a reason. There are too many variables in a measurement like that.
And again, you're mingling the PvP discussion with venos in general discussion. When we talk about PvP with venos, it's nearly always about venos with phoenix. Granted, venos with other pets aren't that great at PvP. But if phoenix venos simply don't PvP as much as the entire archer PvP community, of course there are going to be more archers on the list. This "theory" (phoenix venos likely PvE more) is in part supported in the fact that it is known phoenixs eat through mobs, resulting in faster grinding, and therefore leveling.
Using the list as the primary means to disprove all of my arguments is also a fallacy: supporting one point doesn't disprove the rest. It doesn't address venos soloing TT, grinding faster than other classes, or any other advantage only venos have. And I think you know how much power money holds.

What you are really saying is that no matter how many different areguements are given to you from different sources it means nothing unless we compile them all into one response. For example, I have been telling you that the reason that venos can farm faster is becuase their expenses are actually higher. Which has been MUCH better explained by real venos in this discussion. And several other people have been demonstrating that they are not godley in PVP using PVP rankings, which is a fact that you have not disputed with anything other then 'well maybe veno's just don't wanna be the best...'. And there there are the level rankings, again another fact that shows venos are not even the highest levels amongst the rankings. And again your arguement for them not being the highest here was? And of course the Total of all the rankings combined together to show that Veno's are only second best, and not by a slim margin, but instead Archers nearly are DOUBLE the totals that venos are. And your response to this was 'I wish it included who is the richest...' Your arguements have fallen apart and yet you cling to them because.... My guess is you feel that you are the captain of your sinking ship and you must go down with it? Well truth be told, if a ship is sinking and the captain has the chance to get off, he/she can and does get off that sinking ship.

Oh, I think I just summed up most of the arguements against your opinions. Care to tell us why they are all invalid now?

Solandri - Heavens Tear

Zoe - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I don't mean just buying or selling. I mean buying it low simply to sell it higher. It drives up prices.

Sigh. Please take some courses in economics. Being able to buy low and sell high means that a market inefficiency exists, which causes the price differential. When someone moves in to take advantage of that price differential, it makes the market more efficient, which lowers prices, not raises them. The only exceptions are the cases of monopolies or government control, where someone is able to dictate buy/sell prices regardless of market forces.

For example, take what my cat shop does in the game. For simplicity, let's use the example of dull claws. Without cat shops like mine, a player would gather 10 dull claws and sell them to an NPC for 1350 each. Sure he could set up his own cat shop to sell them, but the fact that he sold them to my cat shop means that he's either unwilling or unable to sell them via a cat shop. So if my cat shop weren't there, he'd sell them to an NPC.

So those dull claws are now gone from the market. Some other guy who collected 10 dull claws decides to sell them in a cat shop. He looks around, and he's the only guy selling them, so he sets the price at 8k each. Another guy who wants 10 dull claws doesn't have time to collect them on his own. He only sees the one shop selling them, so buys them for 8k each.

There's a market inefficiency here. The first 10 dull claws sold to the NPC could have been offered to the guy looking to buy dull claws. But because they were destroyed by the NPC, they were no longer available to the market.

--

Now look at what my cat shop does. I offer to buy the dull claws for 3000. The guy who would've sold them to an NPC sees my cat shop. He sells them to me instead and makes a lot more money. He's happy.

I turn around and sell the dull claws. I see the other cat shop selling them for 8k, so I price mine at 7k. He prices his at 6k. I price mine at 5.5k. He prices his at 5k. I decide I don't want to go much lower than that, so price mine at 5k too.

The guy looking for dull claws comes around, and sees them for 5k from both shops, and buys what he needs. He paid 5k instead of 8k, so he's happy. I made 2k per dull claw. I'm happy. The guy who originally collected the claws sold them for 3k instead of 1350, so he's happy. Everyone is happy. Well, not the guy who originally could've sold them for 8k, who can now only sell them for 5k. But I think we're all agreed that lower prices are better. And the amount of his unhappiness (5k sales instead of 8k sales is just 3k unhappiness) is dwarfed by our happiness (1650 for the first guy, 2k for me, and 3k for the final buyer).

What benefit do I, as the middleman, provide? I collect resources which would've been used inefficiently (sold to an NPC), move them to a more convenient locale (where there are more buyers), and make these previously unavailable resources available to people wanting them. And drive the prices lower in the process.

--

If there were a situation where reselling could drive prices higher, that would mean the market is already well serviced and there is no market inefficiency. A reseller in that market would not be able to compete with a direct seller. e.g. the original dull claw collector sells it on a cat shop for 1500 instead of to an NPC for 1350. He figures the extra 150 coin per dull claw is worth his time. I as a reseller would be forced to buy them at 1400 and sell them for 1450 to compete. I figure 50 coin per dull claw not worth my time so I don't bother. The market is already efficient, and there is no room for a reseller.

Asgenar - Lost City

The PvP list is meaningless, you wanna know why? It only shows who/what class is the best ganker meaning pking lowbies. Not knowing how a statistic is composed of is worse than pulling it out of nowhere and trying to use it as logistic evidence. As far as I know, Kill counts in TW also add to the PvP list. Now everyone knows that an archer who zhens/barrages in TW is bound to get more kills than a Veno. enough said.

dieseasily

Asgenar - Lost City wrote: »

The PvP list is meaningless, you wanna know why? It only shows who/what class is the best ganker meaning pking lowbies. Not knowing how a statistic is composed of is worse than pulling it out of nowhere and trying to use it as logistic evidence. As far as I know, Kill counts in TW also add to the PvP list. Now everyone knows that an archer who zhens/barrages in TW is bound to get more kills than a Veno. enough said.

******SARCASM ALERT******SARCASM ALERT******SARCASM ALERT
ZHEN/Barrage is uber bugged!!!! We must ban that next because it unfaily allows archers to get more kills then any other class! And people are too stupid to not walk into the AOE of a Barrage!
******SARCASM ALERT******SARCASM ALERT******SARCASM ALERT

And if the same listing said Venos are are the best hands down would you not use that to prove your case? There has been no real evidence offered by anyone to say that venos are overpowered, only that 1 of their pets skills is overpowered and bugged. Only conjecture, opinion, and assumptions by people who do not like and have never really played a veno character. And there are just as many people who have never played the class who are supporting the idea that class is fair.

Also you to can play a veno if you want. No one is stopping you. If you think that venos are as all powerful as you claim, then show us.

Asgenar - Lost City

dieseasily wrote: »

******SARCASM ALERT******SARCASM ALERT******SARCASM ALERT
ZHEN/Barrage is uber bugged!!!! We must ban that next because it unfaily allows archers to get more kills then any other class! And people are too stupid to not walk into the AOE of a Barrage!
******SARCASM ALERT******SARCASM ALERT******SARCASM ALERT

And if the same listing said Venos are are the best hands down would you not use that to prove your case? There has been no real evidence offered by anyone to say that venos are overpowered, only that 1 of their pets skills is overpowered and bugged. Only conjecture, opinion, and assumptions by people who do not like and have never really played a veno character. And there are just as many people who have never played the class who are supporting the idea that class is fair.

Also you to can play a veno if you want. No one is stopping you. If you think that venos are as all powerful as you claim, then show us.

What's with the flames? It's not a matter of play the class or not. That is the dumbest suggestion ever. "Oh all other classes aren't worth playing because they suck, so just play the good one and shut up with the complaining." Since when have I stated that venos are overpowered? never. I've only pointed out problems of the class where flesh ream and pheonix fall in. Don't take my quote to try and boost your point on another subject. the point of my previous post was to counter every butt hurt veno trying to back up their claim that they aren't the best at PvP.

Maiya - Lost City

QQ reflect plx. I would like to not be massacred by BMs and WBs more than I already am.

Purple - Lost City

<----Proud user of Pinnaer Foxwing.

Fire chicken's overrated.

Fleuri - Sanctuary

Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Being able to buy low and sell high means that a market inefficiency exists, which causes the price differential.

I have had some problems when I have tried searching cat shops and the auction house. So, currently, I do not buy anything from them.

Niamy - Sanctuary

Purple - Lost City wrote: »

<----Proud user of Pinnaer Foxwing.

Fire chicken's overrated.

agree pinnaer FTW!!!!! b:victory

chipsing1234

Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »

And until you can come up with evidence supporting that theory (sorry, "suggestion"), the folks arguing that you're wrong have the upper hand. Look, I'm not saying their stats and arguments are 100% true. Personally I actually think you're right on this point (and that the phoenix has not been in the game long enough to dramatically impact class rankings). But you can't just suggest a theory and consider that to be ample refutation of the evidence provided by the opposition. You have to come up with some methodology and some numbers to show why your theory is right.

They cannot prove that I am wrong either when I say phoenix is overpowered with its bugged bleed. Because we all lack substantial experience of seeing/knowing a phoenix veno that PvPs, we don't have the evidence to prove how good(or mediocre, in the venos' arguments) phoenix venos are in actual PvP. However, I have at least a few witnesses who have been directly in a fight with a phoenix veno (that have posted on here), and all of them mentioned how the bugged bleed obliterates. 'Sides, I've been emphasizing PvE and soloing TT, dont know why they keep bringing it up against me.

Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Ah yes, the age-old argument of people who don't like it when real stats don't substantiate their point of view. If the PvP and level stats showed venos on top, you would've been harping it over and over.

To use your own words against you, you have no "evidence" that I would do such a thing. See what you're saying? As I just said, I emphasized their advantage in PvE and more specifically, ability to solo TT for cash.

Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »

The lists of top levels on the servers does not support that theory. In fact what the lists seem to show is that at early to mid levels venos level quickest (Sanctuary, the youngest server, has the highest number of venos in the top levels). But at high levels the other classes (and particularly archers) catch up and surpass venos at leveling.

Keep in mind the list does not show how long each character to level, how many exp scrolls they used, the charm costs, etc. For instance, many bms at higher levels AOE grind. This requires both types of charms (as AOEs eat up mp) and repair costs. If it's single grinding, the cost is reduced to repairs and the occasional pots. This is what I'm going to use for comparison to veno grinding, unless you can prove the majority of bms AOE grind.
Venos kill mobs quick. Perhaps not at quickly as archers or maybe even clerics, but definitely faster than melees. But then again, they're not the ones tanking the damage during their attack. Archers must buy arrows - many buy the lowest level ones to save money, which add a paltry +3 attack, clerics and wizzes eat through mp far faster than venos, and I already covered melees. Shall we move on to phoenix venos? These venos - I've witnessed them with my own eyes - send in the phoenix, and after no more than 10 seconds kills a mob. Without the veno even casting a spell. If the veno cast, it would be even shorter. I have two pieces of evidence to prove my point: DeityofRain has surpassed the Misti twins, who used to be at the top of the server. She's a phoenix veno. Next, in my own guild, a veno who was once 6 levels below the top level cleric in the faction (73 to 79), has now caught up, even though she spent days doing TT (now lvl 88). Again, the ease of grinding with phoenix gives venos a huge advantage.

Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I already showed how anyone can make more money than a veno grinding.

I dont quite remember what it was, but if you're talking about buying and selling, then you're comparing the wrong things. A veno can do that as well. Grinding profit should be compared with grinding profit, and it's too bad TT profit can't really be compared as...well, other classes can't solo TT, and even if specific drop rates were compared, personal experiences would come into the argument and make it difficult to decide what to legitimize.

Eternalnub - Heavens Tear

Eternalnub - Heavens Tear wrote: »

well my friend play on my-en and here is msn convo between me and her today i dunno what to say

(11:55) nuuh: ppl still cry that nix's bleed is bugged lol
(11:56) Carina: lol
(11:57) nuuh: if it was bugged wonder why it hasnt been fixed
(11:57) Carina: well of wat i heard its not bugged
(11:58) Carina: phoenix makes that crazy dmg
(11:58) Carina: but in china server
(11:58) Carina: they reduced the dmg with some update
(12:01) Carina: pwi a bunch of crybabies
(12:01) nuuh: yea 90% from ur server so no wonder
(12:02) Carina: ya all thre crybabies went there so we can play in peace now
(12:08) nuuh: Originally Posted by Asgenar - Lost City View Post
I'm saying that flesh ream isn't the problem, it's the whole class. And flesh ream and pheonixes are part of the class. Now go away.
(12:08) nuuh: oh my
(12:08) Carina: wtf lol
(12:09) Carina: wf can be owned so easily
(12:09) Carina: even with phoenix

seems that i need quote myself what the fk all i can see veno there veno was around corner veno killed that alone (((( and when i need help with some bosses veno's are GOD but after that same lvl veno who killed boss for u still is alone there and u go to zhen and u dont need anymore poor veno's help and ur lvl90 while ur veno friend is still around lvl70 and when u get killed 1 time by poor veno u need come here cry...most of u ppl are from my-en server so please go back there cry with shared accounts and "nais" gm's

LadyBastet - Sanctuary

Well I do have to agree that Venos are a bit overpowered. When I was in my mid 30's I was already tanking mobs that were in their lower 50's. I have three characters on the Sanctuary server that I was testing out in soloing Firecrag Grotto

Cleric: Able to get through most of the dungeon before I used up all of my mana and pots

Wizard: Wiped out everything inside but when it came to the boss I had to high tail it out of there.

Veno: Easily wiped out mobs and boss was a cinch to defeat. To date have soloed Firecrag, Rabid Wolves and Cave of Vicious.

I am now in my late 40's and have no problem mobbing it south of Tusk Town. As for the Phoenix and Herc. Not everyone has 15-30mil or $200 to get one. I have spent over a million in game and only have 444 Feathers.

Pros: Veno is a overpowered class IMO. high money making and able to solo bosses with ease.

Cons: Phoenix and Herc are very costly.

bobzilla21

People need to stop posting so fast...How am I supposed to read any of it if you post every half a minute?

Isala - Sanctuary

Purple - Lost City wrote: »

<----Proud user of Pinnaer Foxwing.

Fire chicken's overrated.

I alternate between a Foxwing Supreme and a Petite Sawfly. Depends on what I want to hear shreiking at the moment. Yeah. I have two Air pets. Neither of them is EVER going to be a Pheonix. b:laugh

Saitada - Sanctuary

damani wrote: »

Def was not thrilled to see a veno soloing 8 seapray bloodwulfs yesterday.

Normally it takes this thing called a "zhen party" (...) to be able to take on 7-8 of these things when they are levels higher than you.

Veno did it alone with a herc......balanced? When one char can do alone what it takes a group of 4-6 others to do........

Also watching the veno scooping mats while the herc was killing a mob was....well, i wanted either the mob OR the mat, so......

I dunno how it works out with them having to pay a ton for skills, but I'm pretty sure if you just nerfed the megapetz then things would balance out and Venos would probably STILL be the best class 0_o

Funny, I've seen a BM doing the exact same thing. Maybe I should start crying how BM skills make them so OverPowered that they can AOE grind multiple mobs at once. Problem with that is, That is a strength for a BM, and a needed function they have, nobody cries about that. But let a Veno take on the same number of mobs with a Herc, and suddenly they are overpowered.

?????

Pretty stupid.

~S

Isala - Sanctuary

Saitada - Sanctuary wrote: »

Funny, I've seen a BM doing the exact same thing. Maybe I should start crying how BM skills make them so OverPowered that they can AOE grind multiple mobs at once. Problem with that is, That is a strength for a BM, and a needed function they have, nobody cries about that. But let a Veno take on the same number of mobs with a Herc, and suddenly they are overpowered.

?????

Pretty stupid.

~S

I've seen barbs doing similar feats. Not those exact mobs, but I've seen barbs do it. I think every class has that kinda capability to be honest. Maybe not at the SAME time, but about the same amount of mobs in the same time period. Wizards can blast through them one at a time, as can Clerics and Archers. I've seen those classes kill twice as many mobs as I do, even when I multiaggro my mobs. If I'm in a heavily populated area, I have to start firing AoE's into crowds just so I can get my mobs. I know, you may say something like "YOU SUCK! LRN TO VENO" But the fact remains, that venos are not as high of damage output as the other classes. If we were, we'd be able to just wipe out everything. A veno with the firepower of a wizard, for instance, could wipe out about 2 mobs in the time her pet killed one. And THAT would be overpowered.

tatakairyu

No, other classes can't do the same thing solo in the same amount of time as a BM. Well, on the mobs that are good for AoE anyway.

A BM can mob 10+ mobs easily if they have a hp charm, no one can keep up with that killing speed 1v1 a mob till they killed 10+.(of course I'm talking about the same-ish level as the bm not 50 levels higher.)

Saitada - Sanctuary

Lirgorn - Heavens Tear wrote: »

then it needs nerfing. its strange that a level 8X nix can 1 hit me yet 8x clerics, archers, BMs, barbs and other wiz cannot

edit: i also cant think where a solo class in any other MMO is actualy remotely good PvP. They generaly rule PvE but are poor PvP, this is what helps in the balance of the game, cos of the PvE skills they can get better gear so they can be ok PvP but still should not be able to easyly drop another class. this is just my experiance and my opinion. Il bet any money the new PvP server is full of veno's.

Everquest - Necromancer. God of Soloing (followed by Shaman and Beastlord) and DEADLY EVIL in PvP.

~S

Saitada - Sanctuary

Asgenar - Lost City wrote: »

that's cuz you're lvl 30. over 80% of the "high" lvl venos have a pheonix. High lvl meaning 70+

Prove it.

~S

Saitada - Sanctuary

Asgenar - Lost City wrote: »

Nerfing flesh realm so that it actually does the reduced damage it is supposed to in PvP will make venos singlehandedly the weakest class in the game at PvP.

Interesting. Your OWN WORDS Bite you in the ****. "Veno's are overpowered" you say over and over again, then in one small paragraph, kill your entire arguments adhoc.

Veno's are overpowered, nerf the CLASS you say. But here you say, if they nerf the flesh ream skill, veno's will be so underpowered they will be non factors in PVP.

If they are so overpowered, how can you make such a statement?

You reveal the REAL truth to your posts in such a simple fashion.

The truth is, your upset Veno's have a pet that is strong and no longer makes them the fat targets they used to be. They now have a decent chance against others.

yet here you state:

Asgenar - Lost City wrote: »

I'm saying that flesh ream isn't the problem, it's the whole class. And flesh ream and pheonixes are part of the class. Now go away.

Which is it? hmmm?

~S

Foxx_trott - Heavens Tear

Saitada - Sanctuary wrote: »

Interesting. Your OWN WORDS Bite you in the ****. "Veno's are overpowered" you say over and over again, then in one small paragraph, kill your entire arguments adhoc.



~S

You might want to talk real slow to these trolls, and in words they can understand. I'm fairly certain the troll version of google just had a rush of searches on the word Adhoc, lol.

Saitada - Sanctuary

Foxx_trott - Heavens Tear wrote: »

You might want to talk real slow to these trolls, and in words they can understand. I'm fairly certain the troll version of google just had a rush of searches on the word Adhoc, lol.

b:laughb:laugh

ad hoc
Function: adverb
Etymology: Latin, for this
: for the particular end or case at hand without consideration of wider application

Saitada - Sanctuary

triple post? wtf? lol!