The Phoenix - Actual Numbers

Skyannie - Lost City · March 2009

Torinchibi - Lost City wrote: »

....They are going to code frigging genies in the game but they can't fix a block of broken code?! COME ON! A bug doesn't require permission to be fixed, does it?!

I admit I didn't think they were capable of coding anything, they proved me wrong, but their approach is just lol. Apparently it requires an entire separate system to counter-balance this bug. I think that the reason for this is that it's evidently not in their interests to fix it. I explain, from the moment that the genies come out, and people do whatever crazy thing they have to do to get them, only THOSE people will be able to bypass the bleed bug, at the expense of not being able to use another probably more useful genie. On the other hand, those who can't get that genie will be hunted and slaughtered by the glitched bleed, thus retaining the attention of willing buyers.

Edit: nvm, they didn't make it, gave them too much credit there, lol.

Torinchibi - Lost City · March 2009

That's what I was thinking too. A tank might not even get it because that skill will prob take time to cast, which would basically make it a purify, which still won't be amazing since the veno will just **** you while you do that since we can't sleep them like clerics can. It might help against venos running away while they bleed, but you still won't be able to just tank the dmg, unless blood clot is instant cast while moving kinda thing. It's still not fixing the bug though....the PvP bug.

Skyannie - Lost City · March 2009

Move thread back up. x.x

Torinchibi - Lost City · March 2009

Let us discuss this some more.

I asked Ironman about this today when he showed up at west arch and he said they are eventually going to fix the flesh ream bug...or was it something about considering fixing it? I have a ss but too lazy to check it.

Skyannie - Lost City · March 2009

Torinchibi - Lost City wrote: »

Let us discuss this some more.

I asked Ironman about this today when he showed up at west arch and he said they are eventually going to fix the flesh ream bug...or was it something about considering fixing it? I have a ss but too lazy to check it.

There's something a bit scary about the idea of them "considering fixing it", you'd imagine there would be a higher interest in this situation at this point in time...

Thisha - Lost City · March 2009

why you even care about camplaining... it appears that PWI develop staff just copy, traslate and paste the code of the game... if they havent changed this is because: 1 they are complete morons and dont know how or 2.they are complete morons and dont know how!...
I played in a private server and a veno with phoenix (aroungd my lever) attacked my mage (I was using water shield while killing a water magic mini-boss) my phys def was 2154 and 4238HP I diddnt died cause the skill of phoenix...in fact my hiero ticked twice and the mini-boss killed me...
So yeah.. PWI staff shows themselves as perfect dumb ppl...
this is the true.. show me that Im wrong PLZ... PLZZZZZZ and fix it.

dekciw · March 2009

Skyannie - Lost City wrote: »

There's something a bit scary about the idea of them "considering fixing it", you'd imagine there would be a higher interest in this situation at this point in time...

Like PvP balance ever mattered for them.

Torinchibi - Lost City · March 2009

Can they accidentally break all the bleeding skills then, I wouldn't mind doing 5k bleed dmg over 15 seconds and recasting it every 8 seconds.

kenlee · March 2009

if there was "no damage reduction" (aka no defence counted) then you should do same damage on all armors but heavy armors take less damage from flesh ream.... and yes you can see damage from bleed

dekciw wrote: »

Like PvP balance ever mattered for them.

isnt the same in all games mr TD dark elf

Skyannie - Lost City · March 2009

kenlee wrote: »

if there was "no damage reduction" (aka no defence counted) then you should do same damage on all armors but heavy armors take less damage from flesh ream.... and yes you can see damage from bleed

The damage reduction we speak of isn't ARMOR damage reduction, it's PvP damage reduction, which is really the one that matters most, unless you want people hitting raw 10ks with gushes, eh?

kenlee · March 2009

Yea it's pve damage but most players think there is no defence involved.
...and the only thing players should complain about is phoenix price, it's really cheap. You can counter that phoenix at higher lvl with very good equipment which is not cheap at all.

Zoe - Heavens Tear · March 2009

kenlee wrote: »

Yea it's pve damage but most players think there is no defence involved.
...and the only thing players should complain about is phoenix price, it's really cheap. You can counter that phoenix at higher lvl with very good equipment which is not cheap at all.

It could be cheap but you can only blame yourselves because after all, the the players set the prices.

Skyannie - Lost City · March 2009

Zoe - Heavens Tear wrote: »

It could be cheap but you can only blame yourselves because after all, the the players set the prices.

Actually matching the phoenix in higher levels involves lots of dragon orbs, which prices are defined by PWE, which makes the players set them high. The cost of that upgrade is FAR higher than phoenix.

Torinchibi - Lost City · March 2009

kenlee wrote: »

Yea it's pve damage but most players think there is no defence involved.
...and the only thing players should complain about is phoenix price, it's really cheap. You can counter that phoenix at higher lvl with very good equipment which is not cheap at all.

I am sorry, who said defense wasn't involved? It's obvious barbs get hit for very little by the bleed because of their heavy armors and the flesh ream being considered physical. I don't even think anyone argued against that. If armor wasn't considered, the nix would be doing like 50% more dmg at 9x.

Torinchibi - Lost City · March 2009

I don't think this thread has had the required attention from a certain group of people, so let's discuss this issue some more until they reply out of pure frustration.

dekciw · March 2009

Awesome thread needs awesome bump by awesome person for awesome purposes.

Skyannie - Lost City · April 2009

Is it just me, or this suggestion hasn't even been added to the compilation? Even though the compilation is useless in itself, you'd imagine they would at LEAST add it in to let us know they're aware of this problem.

AndromedaB - Sanctuary · April 2009

yeah b:sad

hamzarugy · April 2009

Torinchibi - Lost City wrote: »

Ren, you realize that virtually no1 in RQ likes you, right? When you keep telling people how much you suck and how you die to warebeasts, you are obviously self failing right there. Warebeasts can't even touch me if I want to kite out and kill a robies around them, I don't understand how you can die to them with more p.def and more hp than me. GO LEARN YOUR ******N CLASS.

lol, i used to think that too untill i reached 60 n got my TT, there was no time i dual and archer n i lose, i won lvl 68archer twice with all HP bShards, n other archers in my lvl range....HELL i EVEN WON A LVL 81 ARCHER N YEAH AM DAMN HAPPY ABOUT IT.b:cry<<< i tear for how happy i is XD
so u cant say that erry class has its weakness..coz u can over come those if ur really good...or u can just use a nix b:shutup

n for the nix bug, if there is a bug thyll fix if there is not, they won't. end of story.

one more thing...after readying these post...i reached a conclusion......which is obvious to anyone who read the posts 2 ..(i hate ren) what a *****b:victory

Skyannie - Lost City · April 2009

hamzarugy wrote: »

n for the nix bug, if there is a bug thyll fix if there is not, they won't. end of story.

It's accepted knowledge that it is a bug, unless you're in denial. The only difference between this bug and any other is that this one makes money FOR them, which is why they're completely ignoring its existence. They won't even comment on the matter.

Edit: omfg, the first page curse!

dennin · April 2009

Ren - Lost City wrote: »

I thought conq isn't supposed to troll huh? Oh, right, hypocrisy is the greatest thing ever.

Hardly. I can still kill people if they nerf bleed, but not half as well as if I were a DIFFERENT CLASS.
Then again, you're playing one of the easiest pvp classes, don't know why I'm talking to you.

first..... her character description clearly states shes from the guild Envy, second shes a cleric.....quoting her again....you are an idiot and need to learn not only your classes but how to read.

crackerchad · April 2009

lol she got banned anyways, And simple they wont fix it, not unless every person on this game quits for that reason :P

Venos are perfectly capable of PK or any form of PvP without a nix lol, that is.. unless you dont know how to play?

Defending the nix is just stating that you're nothing of a PvPer without it, Besides... isnt PK rly based on "survival of the richest" anyways ^^

hamzarugy · April 2009

Skyannie - Lost City wrote: »

It's accepted knowledge that it is a bug, unless you're in denial. The only difference between this bug and any other is that this one makes money FOR them, which is why they're completely ignoring its existence. They won't even comment on the matter.

am not a veno so i is not in denial, but they say if they wanted 2 fix it they would have like ages ago...n this post was here for more than that and as u all know the game is updating its version erry week or so, till now there is ntn...so u guys just give up...instead of crying about a bug that may neva be fixed...lets just have a rule in PWI (a veno isnt allowed 2 use her nix on pvp wateva the conditions r...just like using pots in not allowed in duals ..if u guys accepted the pots rules...Honest pro player(venos) will accept the no nix rule) n they lived happily n eva after b:bye

brutius · April 2009

Thought i would explain to all you noobs at int how this "Bug" works....

PVP does not reduce attack by any percentage, repeats... does not reduce.....

Because you do 20k to a mob doesnt meen just because you dont do so much to a player that its reduced pvp damage, the fact is players have armour and way more defence than mobs....

dont know if this works on this server but.... hover over your defence numbers you will see a percentage of your defence against people of your lvl that is where your lower numbers on a player comes from because mobs dont get the % reduces.. shock shock horror huh maybe they should fix that and make mobs hit hard :P.

My archer lvl 100 with pretty low attack of only 12k does 2k on average to other players.. now thats around 400 damage less than phoenix does per bleed. according to some guys calculations here my 12k is comparable to the 200% dmg add on from ripping..

now for all you others still wanna call it a bug go make a "veno/wf" and feed a pet to full loyalty.. you will see a "120%" increase in damage so thats an extra 20% on top of there too to work with into that calculation.

Kthxbye enjoy

dekciw · April 2009

brutius wrote: »

Thought i would explain to all you noobs at int how this "Bug" works....

PVP does not reduce attack by any percentage, repeats... does not reduce.....

Because you do 20k to a mob doesnt meen just because you dont do so much to a player that its reduced pvp damage, the fact is players have armour and way more defence than mobs....

dont know if this works on this server but.... hover over your defence numbers you will see a percentage of your defence against people of your lvl that is where your lower numbers on a player comes from because mobs dont get the % reduces.. shock shock horror huh maybe they should fix that and make mobs hit hard :P.

My archer lvl 100 with pretty low attack of only 12k does 2k on average to other players.. now thats around 400 damage less than phoenix does per bleed. according to some guys calculations here my 12k is comparable to the 200% dmg add on from ripping..

now for all you others still wanna call it a bug go make a "veno/wf" and feed a pet to full loyalty.. you will see a "120%" increase in damage so thats an extra 20% on top of there too to work with into that calculation.

Kthxbye enjoy

Thought I'd explain Brutius the level 100 EA from Delphi how the game mechanics of PW works because it seems that 100 levels weren't enough for this baddie to understand something as basic and simple as this.

First, let's state that the phoenix patk is merely 5.6k buffed. I'm a WR and I have about 4-5 to 7-8k fully buffed can't remember just got GX so whatever. Btw maybe some WF might want to confirm this but : I'm pretty sure full loyalty doesn't give you more damage it's more like you won't do full damage if you have less than 50-60% loyalty.

Ripping bite level 5 : 200% damage. So that's like 3-4k damage per second as I stated on the first page of the topic if we ignore the pdef of the target

Mountsever sweep : that has base physical damage (4-5 to 7-8k)+ 100% of weapon damage ( 582-1358 @ +0 mine is +6 but I'll take +0 because it will still show my point) + some 2kish damage.

now take this ^ and tell me that it wouldn't be **** if it wasn't reduced or whatsoever even with armor reduction.

let's take some random numbers as axe damage variates a lot so lets take 6k so 6000 + 800 + 2000 so 8800 damage. So zerk = 17 600 damage and zerk crit 35.200.

Another example while you fail. Just compare ripping bite with bash they have about the same %damage addon except that ripping bite is damage over time and bash is instant damage with shorter cooldown. HAVE YOU EVER NOTICED NO ONE USES BASH IN PVP BECAUSE ITS DAMAGE IS ****ING TERRIBLE ON PLAYERS?

Oh to finish, you shoul check pwdatabase once it comes back online, you will notice that mobs have very similar stats to players when it comes to pdef/mdef and patk. You might want to consider this.

Get it now noob? Btw, I know you were playing that one archer from RQ(blackout?) for some TWs and some pvps when he quit and you were mediocre at best so get off your high horse ***** you're nothing special. Make sure you study your **** first before acting like a smart ****. Quit claming like you know more we have level 100's here too and btw we aren't playing an outdated version of the game here bish.

kthxbye youfail.

brutius · April 2009

lol you funny and yes i played blackout for like a week on and off and yes i did TW once too. Shame i was so bad in pk that week that only 1 person could kill me.
bash isnt used because its not a DoT its attack does the same dmg as 1 bleed, bleed is a DoT of 3 attacks

. Each DoT is 200% add on thats why u see a lot of pets use bleed after the 3rd bleed bash then the 8 seconds of ripping is up and the pet bleeds then again.
I didnt state my lvl as a bragging purposes i was just stating so that people will now go what what so much damage or what level is that damage at etc etc.
And yes a full loyalty pet gives 120% attack power therefore 20% more damage. Bleed is not bugged its just strong yet people have cried about it so long and never understood it properly.
and i will say again the mobs do not get the % decrease same as players on their defence.
But no need to worry in around patch 60 wich u guys will get before us phoenix is nerfed and becomes tameable from the phoenix's at fire bathing, then it only does a small amount more than sawfly/bee.
And yes your version is outdated

no1 is on par with beijing

.

Brutius EA 100, Lujayn WF 93 (oh noes i have a veno), EmmaLee EP 91 (render :P), Dmc WR 82, SnowFox WF 74, RedPixie WF 60

Just for giggles as u seem to think i am bragging about the 100 EA i thought i would put up a small selection of my id's

dekciw · April 2009

brutius wrote: »

bash isnt used because its not a DoT its attack does the same dmg as 1 bleed, bleed is a DoT of 3 attacks . Each DoT is 200% add on thats why u see a lot of pets use bleed after the 3rd bleed bash then the 8 seconds of ripping is up and the pet bleeds then again.

Wrong, bash is 250% of the pet damage and it's instant damage. The bleed is 200% of the pet damage and that damage is dealt over 9 seconds with a tick every 3 seconds. Go test it in PvE you will see, Bash has does actually more DPS after a certain amount of time, which is why it's used in PvE more than ripping bite by most WF's even on MY-EN. I actually remember some dude on my-en forums that made a topic about it with the aggro curves and **** that proved that point.

brutius wrote: »

and i will say again the mobs do not get the % decrease same as players on their defence.

You just proved my point, pvp damage reduction. Because the damage reduction the players get is the % you get when you press C and move your cursor over your pdef or mdef + your gear % dmg reduction. I didn't make that up, it was posted on my-cn forums, I'll dig the post for you if you want :>

brutius wrote: »

Brutius EA 100, Lujayn WF 93 (oh noes i have a veno), EmmaLee EP 91 (render :P), Dmc WR 82, SnowFox WF 74, RedPixie WF 60

Anyone can post shared IDs btw, not saying you did but you know what I mean. Go read the pw-cn forums, were not the only ones stating it's bugged, people say that also on pw-my-en too. Also, you didn't refute the point I brought up with my WRs skills. Most char's skills are actually more powerful on paper than ripping bite with the base damage + weapon damage + add-on damage yet the bite still does more damage in reality? Something is broken there.

brutius · April 2009

the whole point is it aint a bug there is no 75% reduction in pvp that is "supposed" to be there its all down to your gear and how u are statted for the amount of damage you take. Take off all your gear and u will see that a player of your lvl will do similar damage to you as they do to mobs.
As for the bashing for pve yah thats the aggro skill and the faster regen in pve ripping just keeps aggro after a bashing.
Its really not a bug its just how the game mechanics work that allows it to be so powerful especially for pheonix due to attack buff and the full loyalty 20% gain.

All the ID are mine not shared at the moment but i only lvld 2 of them myself the 93 wf i got only 1 lvl so far since playing it after my wife made new id. The EP 91 is old friend who plays int now as a WF in conq tho dunno if she still plays or not, its been lvl 91 since she left the MY-EN severs at beginning of INT server :S cus im to lazy to do stones for more than 1 ID. The other ID are what have been left behind by my brothers and such that i use occasionaly in HH when im bored and need solo team mode :S

Blessing - Heavens Tear · April 2009

brutius wrote: »

the whole point is it aint a bug there is no 75% reduction in pvp that is "supposed" to be there its all down to your gear and how u are statted for the amount of damage you take. Take off all your gear and u will see that a player of your lvl will do similar damage to you as they do to mobs.
As for the bashing for pve yah thats the aggro skill and the faster regen in pve ripping just keeps aggro after a bashing.
Its really not a bug its just how the game mechanics work that allows it to be so powerful especially for pheonix due to attack buff and the full loyalty 20% gain.

All the ID are mine not shared at the moment but i only lvld 2 of them myself the 93 wf i got only 1 lvl so far since playing it after my wife made new id. The EP 91 is old friend who plays int now as a WF in conq tho dunno if she still plays or not, its been lvl 91 since she left the MY-EN severs at beginning of INT server :S cus im to lazy to do stones for more than 1 ID. The other ID are what have been left behind by my brothers and such that i use occasionaly in HH when im bored and need solo team mode :S

You should probably stop replying because you have no idea about the mechanics behind the game. Seriously, how the hell did you get to 100 and not know anything. Did you pull all these answers from thin air?

If there was NO pvp damage reduction, my demon cyclone would hit LA/Heavy for 3k-5k+. I would hit arcane wearers for about 2k. And I'm Full Vit build, meaning my attack is nerfed to ****hole. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that their is a pvp reduction just by looking at the numbers.

Here I'll do the math for you since you probably didn't pass grade school and can't use base numbers to do simple math in your head.

Text for Demon Cyclone:

Summon an immense cyclone on the enenmy, inflicting Metal damage equal to your base magic attack plus 100% of weapon damage plus 3380.0. Has a 95% chance to reduce the enemy's movement speed by 40% for 8.0 seconds.

Using my character's numbers:

~Damage before reduction

Damage = Base Magic + 100% Weapon Damage + 3380 + 600 Demon add-on
Damage = 6421 + 1029 + 3380 + 600
Damage = 11430 before ANY reduction

~Damage after armor rating reduction of 50% (average for LA/Heavy)

Damage = 11430 x .5 = 5715 after armor rating reduction of 50%

~Damage after armor rating (50%) + pvp reduction (75%)

Damage = 5715 x .25 = 1428.75 after total reduction

Text for rank 5 Flesh Ream

Bites an enemy, inflicting Base Damage + 200% of Pet's base damage over 9 seconds

Using lvl 90 Phoenix attack stats:
~Damage before reduction

Base Pet Damage = 4096 x 1.30 attack buff = 5324.8
Damage per tick = (Base Pet Damage + 200% Base Pet Damage) / 3 intervals in 9 seconds duration
Damage per tick = (5324.8 + 5324.8 x 2) / 3
Damage per tick = 5324.8 before ANY reduction

~Damage after armor rating reduction (50% average physical for arcane)

Damage per tick = 5324.8 x .5 = 2662.4 after armor rating reduction of 50%

~Damage after armor rating (50%) + pvp reduction (75%)

Damage per tick = 2662.4 x .25 = 665.6 after total reduction

If you were too lazy to comprehend (or too stupid) the math, here's the conclusion:

My demon cyclone will hit for 11430 before reduction, 5715 after armor rating reduction, 1428.75 after total reduction.

Lvl 90 Phoenix Flesh Ream will tick for 5324.8 before reduction, 2662.4 after armor rating reduction, 665.6 after total reduction.

With YOUR mechanic of damage, my demon cyclone is suppose to hit for 5715 on the average WBs, BMs, Archers. How many Full Vit clerics do you see doing that kind of crazy damage with a single target basic skill? 1428.75 damage is just about right when it comes to reflect my damage in pvp. This PROVES that there is a reduction in pvp damage.

Lvl 90 Phoenix flesh ream hits me for 2000+ per tick in TW. It's SUPPOSE to hit me for around 665.6 damage in TW with the correct pvp reduction given to ALL THE OTHER GOD DAMN SKILLS.

Pvp damage is reduced by 75%, and it's even further reduced by defense ratings. Pet Flesh Ream pvp damage is only affected by armor rating reduction therefore it needs to be fixed. End of argument.

Osiris - Dreamweaver · April 2009

Blessing - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Seriously, how the hell did you get to 100 and not know anything.

Private Server with 200x exp gain? b:bye

The Phoenix - Actual Numbers

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