The Phoenix - Actual Numbers
dekciw
Posts: 954 Arc User
I've seen an infinite amount of posts about the phoenix and how it is overpowered but everyone says the same thing and no one brought actual numbers to show the problem. As we all know the actual big problem is the bleed ( ripping bite/flesh ream )
I'll take a level 93 phoenix for the example :
Base stats :
base patk : 4337
base pdef : ~9200
base mdef : ~11100
base HP : 3356
base Evasion : 1551
Buffs :
patk buff : 30%
hp buff : 30%
Final stats :
Final Patk : 5638
Final HP : 4625
Final pdef : ~9200
Final mdef : ~11100
Final Evasion : 1551
Ripping Bite / Flesh Ream (bleed skill) Level 5 : 200% of the patk of the phoenix
so : 2* 5638 = 11 276 damage over 3 second to a target with 0 % dmg reduction because as we know the bleed damage of the pet isn't reduced like skills are in pvp.
Hell WF have have a skill which has 20% chance to reduce physical defense to zero. Which would make the damage you take roughly ~11 276 over 3 second so like ~3 758 (Obviously it's a bit lower because even with pdef @ 0 you get %dmg reduction from your gear but still 3k dmg per second is .... )
Now for more concrete numbers in actual situations where the debuff doesn't land where you would die in one second.
I'm a 9x WR with HH90 gear. My pdef self-buffed is around 9k which grants me about 72% phy dmg reduction
So if we take the 11.276 bleed damage which is reduced by 72% we get a ~8 118 damage reduction which makes the damage ~3 158 over 3 seconds which is ~1 052 damage per second on a HEAVY USER. Now that's ignoring the WF's / Venomancer's spells that hit me for 1.3k-1.5k to 2ish-3ish(crits) even with a hiero/charm, it's kinda hard to survive.
Now a even more impressive example, a light user :
9x archer with HH90 gear has 58% dmg reduction with Cleric buffs
which means : 1 578 per second ( 4 735 over 3 seconds ) and that is about most of them have in hp if not less or barely more... and that's ignoring completely the Veno's damage and the pet actually normal hitting
Robes : One of the best geared Wizard on the server with robes has about 50% damage reduction with stone shield uniquely
which is 5 638 over 3 seconds and 1 879 damage per second Most of them don't have that HP and once again that's ignoring the veno alone.
Basically the Phoenix can kill by itself 90% of the light / robe user even with buffs. With the WereFox / Venomancer not even attacking ( making it hard to score the kill as the user will most likely be flying away) . That's also ignoring the damage with amplify or the fact that you could be straight up debuffed because of purge. To those who say just kill the pet well actually the pet is like another 9x player so it takes a few shot to kill and by the time you could kill it : you're already dead.
This is serious business for us PvPers this makes it extremely boring as, as soon as a phoenix shows up most people get 1shotted by the pet. This is not a QQ thread, I'm trying to make people understand with actual number how unbalanced the pet is. Don't nerf the pet, fix the bleed or find a way around the bug to make it balanced.
Possible solutions :
- Fix the bleed so the damage is reduced in pvp like every other skill/spell
- Phoenix does half damage on ground ( flying pet)
Maybe some people have smart suggestions to make and I'll think of some more myself. Thanks for reading this incredibly long post. I hope/wish the GMs or members of the dev team will read/comment on this, it took me some time to write it and I hope you take some of your time to read & comment so I don't feel like my time was wasted.
I'll take a level 93 phoenix for the example :
Base stats :
base patk : 4337
base pdef : ~9200
base mdef : ~11100
base HP : 3356
base Evasion : 1551
Buffs :
patk buff : 30%
hp buff : 30%
Final stats :
Final Patk : 5638
Final HP : 4625
Final pdef : ~9200
Final mdef : ~11100
Final Evasion : 1551
Ripping Bite / Flesh Ream (bleed skill) Level 5 : 200% of the patk of the phoenix
so : 2* 5638 = 11 276 damage over 3 second to a target with 0 % dmg reduction because as we know the bleed damage of the pet isn't reduced like skills are in pvp.
Hell WF have have a skill which has 20% chance to reduce physical defense to zero. Which would make the damage you take roughly ~11 276 over 3 second so like ~3 758 (Obviously it's a bit lower because even with pdef @ 0 you get %dmg reduction from your gear but still 3k dmg per second is .... )
Now for more concrete numbers in actual situations where the debuff doesn't land where you would die in one second.
I'm a 9x WR with HH90 gear. My pdef self-buffed is around 9k which grants me about 72% phy dmg reduction
So if we take the 11.276 bleed damage which is reduced by 72% we get a ~8 118 damage reduction which makes the damage ~3 158 over 3 seconds which is ~1 052 damage per second on a HEAVY USER. Now that's ignoring the WF's / Venomancer's spells that hit me for 1.3k-1.5k to 2ish-3ish(crits) even with a hiero/charm, it's kinda hard to survive.
Now a even more impressive example, a light user :
9x archer with HH90 gear has 58% dmg reduction with Cleric buffs
which means : 1 578 per second ( 4 735 over 3 seconds ) and that is about most of them have in hp if not less or barely more... and that's ignoring completely the Veno's damage and the pet actually normal hitting
Robes : One of the best geared Wizard on the server with robes has about 50% damage reduction with stone shield uniquely
which is 5 638 over 3 seconds and 1 879 damage per second Most of them don't have that HP and once again that's ignoring the veno alone.
Basically the Phoenix can kill by itself 90% of the light / robe user even with buffs. With the WereFox / Venomancer not even attacking ( making it hard to score the kill as the user will most likely be flying away) . That's also ignoring the damage with amplify or the fact that you could be straight up debuffed because of purge. To those who say just kill the pet well actually the pet is like another 9x player so it takes a few shot to kill and by the time you could kill it : you're already dead.
This is serious business for us PvPers this makes it extremely boring as, as soon as a phoenix shows up most people get 1shotted by the pet. This is not a QQ thread, I'm trying to make people understand with actual number how unbalanced the pet is. Don't nerf the pet, fix the bleed or find a way around the bug to make it balanced.
Possible solutions :
- Fix the bleed so the damage is reduced in pvp like every other skill/spell
- Phoenix does half damage on ground ( flying pet)
Maybe some people have smart suggestions to make and I'll think of some more myself. Thanks for reading this incredibly long post. I hope/wish the GMs or members of the dev team will read/comment on this, it took me some time to write it and I hope you take some of your time to read & comment so I don't feel like my time was wasted.
Post edited by dekciw on
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Comments
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Yes, the pheonix and more particularly the glitch being abused is Ripping Bite.
What I would prefer seeing is if the veno is in safezone their pet SHOULD NOT BE ABLE TO PK PEOPLE. That is BS to the highest degree. Happens to me so often. Send pheonix, chill in safe zone. b:cute It is vastly insulting to those people playing expecting a balanced game that such a HUGE error in the coding has gone ignored for so long.
Imagine if say a Mage had the same kind of error on Blade Tempest. Basically I hit people what my tempest hits mobs around 20K. Would you fix that?
... Maybe its being allowed to stick around because every veno is expecting to abuse it, thus raising the sales in the feather department. How many Gs have you guys made off of this glitch? It also raises sales in the HP Charm department as well as the Guardian Angels. Really you Devs need to stop assuming your user base(customers) are completely oblivious to such obvious tactics. Stop insulting us and give us some service.Hey Elayne. Its illegal to harass underage girls. And CQ won the map without you.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Can a GM PLEASE respond saying whether or not they will ever fix this or not?
Do you guys just not care about your game or community?0 -
For real only people happy are 20% of the wf community. The other 80% acknowledge its retare.ded
Do something...Say something...Official Guild History
Conqueror->kamisama0 -
Foxes rolled foxes BECAUSE OF PHOENIXES, AND THE BLEED "BUG".
The price of Cash Shop pets is insanely absurd.
Leveling a fox to 90+ takes a very long time.
If you nerf the flesh ream "bug", then you've invalidated all the money and time people spent on their fox.
If flesh ream is "nerfed", foxes should be compensated by being allowed to have a gm create them a repacement character and refund their cash shop pets/bound gear etc.
The people crying about this have always known about it and had the opportunity to be a fox and get their own phoenix, and yet they chose not to. They want to be unstoppable, and hurt others in the process.
And since we're crying about imbalance, let's shine the light on something else.
The TANK CLASS aka the CLASS THAT SHOULD DO THE LEAST DAMAGE, barbarian, outdamages my phoenix by far if they have a berserk weapon. 7k damage from PandaLord to me with just one skill (not even his others which can still do a lot), deals even more than that to other guildmates of a higher level who use robes. That's a one shot to nearly everyone who isn't in +5 heavy armor. Flesh Ream only ticks for 2000 **AT MOST** (low lvl low pdef character), which won't one shot anyone.
Similarly, warriors with berserk axes can do pretty much the same. Exept they can stun everyone around them. For a ridiculously long time. And a ridiculously high success rate of said stun.
Why don't we disable the Berserk effect too while we're bawling like babies? I mean, it's not fair for melees to have it, since NO MAGIC WEAPON can have it, right? That effect gives melees more dps than any wimpy "glass cannon nuker".
We should all just stfu and accept that this game is ridiculously imbalanced, period.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Zoe is so full of it, that he must be Karmelia.0 -
I don't bother fighting a werefox with a phoenix. They just need to send phoenix toward you and kite until phoenix hits. So Viriilink's solution is don't fight it. Though, I do hate one part about the release of phoenix. The werefoxs' ego simply got out of proportion. Don't really care if future update(s) implement change(s) on the phoenix because I could just create a werefox and get a phoenix for myself, but I chose not to.0
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Ren - Lost City wrote: »Foxes rolled foxes BECAUSE OF PHOENIXES, AND THE BLEED "BUG".
The price of Cash Shop pets is insanely absurd.
Leveling a fox to 90+ takes a very long time.
If you nerf the flesh ream "bug", then you've invalidated all the money and time people spent on their fox.
If flesh ream is "nerfed", foxes should be compensated by being allowed to have a gm create them a repacement character and refund their cash shop pets/bound gear etc.
The people crying about this have always known about it and had the opportunity to be a fox and get their own phoenix, and yet they chose not to. They want to be unstoppable, and hurt others in the process.
And since we're crying about imbalance, let's shine the light on something else.
The TANK CLASS aka the CLASS THAT SHOULD DO THE LEAST DAMAGE, barbarian, outdamages my phoenix by far if they have a berserk weapon. 7k damage from PandaLord to me with just one skill (not even his others which can still do a lot), deals even more than that to other guildmates of a higher level who use robes. That's a one shot to nearly everyone who isn't in +5 heavy armor. Flesh Ream only ticks for 2000 **AT MOST** (low lvl low pdef character), which won't one shot anyone.
Similarly, warriors with berserk axes can do pretty much the same. Exept they can stun everyone around them. For a ridiculously long time. And a ridiculously high success rate of said stun.
Why don't we disable the Berserk effect too while we're bawling like babies? I mean, it's not fair for melees to have it, since NO MAGIC WEAPON can have it, right? That effect gives melees more dps than any wimpy "glass cannon nuker".
We should all just stfu and accept that this game is ridiculously imbalanced, period.
???????????
All I have to say to you. You just admit to knowingly making your class because you are aware of the Ripping Bite coding error. Learn your class you might discover it is perfectly capable of pking in other ways. If they fix the bug they are fixing just that. Your pheonix is what you bought, the error lies in the skill you TAUGHT it. The pheonix is a tank in PK and can kill in other ways. Like I said learn your class.
"2K at most"... You're a fool. Thats 2K per second, it kills everything.Hey Elayne. Its illegal to harass underage girls. And CQ won the map without you.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Considering this "bug" has been a part of the game for several years despite the fact it should be a simple fix, I'm hardly at fault for using that as a reason to play the class. Next.Llama - Lost City wrote: »All I have to say to you. You just admit to knowingly making your class because you are aware of the Ripping Bite coding error.
Werefox nukes are horrible. The fox form attacks are even more horrible. Without phoenixes+bleed "bug", werefoxes are just a gimpy debuffer. Even Overlords in L2 are a better class... though they aren't fun to levelLearn your class you might discover it is perfectly capable of pking in other ways.
Yeah, sure, just give me a skill that forces people to attack the bird, and a pet-hp-charm.The pheonix is a tank in PK and can kill in other ways.
No, not really. It lasts 9 seconds, plenty of potting/healing/running/PURIFYING time. It works this way:"2K at most"... You're a fool. Thats 2K per second, it kills everything.
Pet casts skill, player takes normal pet attack damage and gains bleed effect.
3 seconds pass, bleed ticks (let's say 1.2k on a same level target).
3 seconds pass, bleed ticks.
3 seconds pass, bleed ticks.
UNLESS YOU OMG PURIFY IT!!! OMG THAT'S SHEER GENIUS. I mean, they didnt make clerics to run around attacking people, did they.
I didn't sign up to play a gimpy debuffer. I'm owed a class change if I become one by a massive game alteration of a well-known mechanism existing in the game since forever.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Zoe is so full of it, that he must be Karmelia.0 -
Ren - Lost City wrote: »Foxes rolled foxes BECAUSE OF PHOENIXES, AND THE BLEED "BUG".
The price of Cash Shop pets is insanely absurd.
Leveling a fox to 90+ takes a very long time.
If you nerf the flesh ream "bug", then you've invalidated all the money and time people spent on their fox.
If flesh ream is "nerfed", foxes should be compensated by being allowed to have a gm create them a repacement character and refund their cash shop pets/bound gear etc.
The people crying about this have always known about it and had the opportunity to be a fox and get their own phoenix, and yet they chose not to. They want to be unstoppable, and hurt others in the process.
And since we're crying about imbalance, let's shine the light on something else.
The TANK CLASS aka the CLASS THAT SHOULD DO THE LEAST DAMAGE, barbarian, outdamages my phoenix by far if they have a berserk weapon. 7k damage from PandaLord to me with just one skill (not even his others which can still do a lot), deals even more than that to other guildmates of a higher level who use robes. That's a one shot to nearly everyone who isn't in +5 heavy armor. Flesh Ream only ticks for 2000 **AT MOST** (low lvl low pdef character), which won't one shot anyone.
Similarly, warriors with berserk axes can do pretty much the same. Exept they can stun everyone around them. For a ridiculously long time. And a ridiculously high success rate of said stun.
Why don't we disable the Berserk effect too while we're bawling like babies? I mean, it's not fair for melees to have it, since NO MAGIC WEAPON can have it, right? That effect gives melees more dps than any wimpy "glass cannon nuker".
We should all just stfu and accept that this game is ridiculously imbalanced, period.
So within the same post you're admitting you're both bad at video games and an idiot.
Well done.0 -
Envy - Lost City wrote: »So within the same post you're admitting you're both bad at video games and an idiot.
Well done.
I thought conq isn't supposed to troll huh? Oh, right, hypocrisy is the greatest thing ever.
Hardly. I can still kill people if they nerf bleed, but not half as well as if I were a DIFFERENT CLASS.
Then again, you're playing one of the easiest pvp classes, don't know why I'm talking to you.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Zoe is so full of it, that he must be Karmelia.0 -
So..the bleed dmg is a bug...and venos are using that bug to kill people. So..wouldn't that be exploiting a bug and therefore receive the consequences for doing that? I mean..they ban venos for glitching Gouf and pulling the boss out of fb29, so why not this? I know this is way too extreme but the veno's were all up in arms how the archers should be banned for glitching the zhen skill.
Back on topic...I would be fine with veno's with nix's just if they actually fought and not let the nix do bleed and sit back at a comfortable distance while I quickly bleed to death.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
eatswithspoons "*roll eyes* real money for virtual property? That's definitely not allowed"
Lol what?0 -
For the record this is my latest respons when i posted a ticket:
"Hello,
We definitely agree with you about this skill. We are pushing very hard to have this resolved as fast as possible. Please be patient as we do honestly care"
But i really don't think GM have thats much power to change the phoenix issue, even if they do agree its absurd. A pet that can solo a player 15 lvl above with a broken skill doesn't really fit in any MMO. Its just to unbalanced.0 -
Ren - Lost City wrote: »Considering this "bug" has been a part of the game for several years despite the fact it should be a simple fix, I'm hardly at fault for using that as a reason to play the class. Next.
They fixed it in CN.Ren - Lost City wrote: »Werefox nukes are horrible. The fox form attacks are even more horrible. Without phoenixes+bleed "bug", werefoxes are just a gimpy debuffer. Even Overlords in L2 are a better class... though they aren't fun to level
Cancer nukes me for 1.5-2k not sure how that's horrible and the nukes really aren't that long to cast compared to a MG. OverLords in L2 are the best class 1v1 out of OLY( even there they are quite pro)Ren - Lost City wrote: »I didn't sign up to play a gimpy debuffer. I'm owed a class change if I become one by a massive game alteration of a well-known mechanism existing in the game since forever.
It's not a well-known mechanism, it's a well known bug. They just fixed it in china which I hope will influence the PWI Dev to make a move.0 -
Spending a load of money doesn't mean you have the rights to have a bugged pet. Other classes can't pay a few hundred dollars and be able to attack from Safe Zone, dealing loads of damage without even spending a single Mana Point.Ren - Lost City wrote: »Foxes rolled foxes BECAUSE OF PHOENIXES, AND THE BLEED "BUG".
The price of Cash Shop pets is insanely absurd.
Leveling a fox to 90+ takes a very long time.
If you nerf the flesh ream "bug", then you've invalidated all the money and time people spent on their fox.
If flesh ream is "nerfed", foxes should be compensated by being allowed to have a gm create them a repacement character and refund their cash shop pets/bound gear etc.
You knowingly spend a ton of money on a bugged item. You can't walk into a store, buy a TV that you know is defective and then come back to ask for a full refund, all the while keeping the TV for the value that it might still have.
Its a bad analogy but it gets my point across.
Virilink is my new hero.Viriilink - Lost City wrote: »I don't bother fighting a werefox with a phoenix. They just need to send phoenix toward you and kite until phoenix hits. So Viriilink's solution is don't fight it. Though, I do hate one part about the release of phoenix. The werefoxs' ego simply got out of proportion. Don't really care if future update(s) implement change(s) on the phoenix because I could just create a werefox and get a phoenix for myself, but I chose not to.
Coraline also brings up a valid point. Again, you know that it is bugged yet you continue to use it. You can not place the blame on the programmers for not fixing it either. As a player, you have agreed to the ToS and accept that you can be banned for exploiting bugs.Shana / 7x Robe Wizard / ReturneR Marshal
... And damn proud of it.0 -
Shana - Lost City wrote: »You can not place the blame on the programmers for not fixing it either. As a player, you have agreed to the ToS and accept that you can be banned for exploiting bugs.
You can blame the devs when it takes them YEARS to fix 2 lines of code.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Zoe is so full of it, that he must be Karmelia.0 -
how long did it take to fix it in malaysian b:puzzled0
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Shana - Lost City wrote: »Coraline also brings up a valid point. Again, you know that it is bugged yet you continue to use it. You can not place the blame on the programmers for not fixing it either. As a player, you have agreed to the ToS and accept that you can be banned for exploiting bugs.
Funny thing is. I see everyone screaming "this is a bug this is a bug" but I don't see anyone showing HOW it's a bug? Where has it ever been called a bug, by anyone OTHER than the players? Have Dev's called it a bug? Have the GM's? Not that I have ever seen, and a quick search, only shows PLAYERS screaming it's a bug.
So I'll go grab my WF.. Grab me a nice petite sawfly, make sure it has bleed (can't remember if they start with it or not) and do as much ownage to you with that, as I do with my phoenix's bleed. *Gasps* omg, I forgot, your not screaming about the petite sawfly with the same skill.. just the Phoenix.. because it also has a hard hitting and fast normal attack... I see. Yup.. I see.
Adjust or Die.
Your stuff. My Bank. K Thanks.
LK0 -
Ren... Stop trying to prevent a bug thats needs to be fixed... its a bug it should be dealt with PERIOD. Make it do whatever the pvp reduction is like it was meant to and its fine. personally I do not like getting killed by a veno who kites a way and doesnt even bother hitting me and I still die. I cannot even outheal the damage it does to me cause it hits so fast, thats without the bleed. If i do like you say and purify i'll be losing chi because Purify takes chi and I can't gain as much chi as i'm losing when I have to constant purify. Really your only trying to defend it because it is overpowered and you wanna be overpowered there is no fairness in that.0
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Platypuss - Lost City wrote: »Ren... Stop trying to prevent a bug thats needs to be fixed... its a bug it should be dealt with PERIOD. Make it do whatever the pvp reduction is like it was meant to and its fine. personally I do not like getting killed by a veno who kites a way and doesnt even bother hitting me and I still die. I cannot even outheal the damage it does to me cause it hits so fast, thats without the bleed. If i do like you say and purify i'll be losing chi because Purify takes chi and I can't gain as much chi as i'm losing when I have to constant purify. Really your only trying to defend it because it is overpowered and you wanna be overpowered there is no fairness in that.
Then start advocating removal of berserk weapons, or allowing them on mage weapons.
And turning barbarians into a MEATSHIELD TANK, instead of its current CANNON-FIRING MELEE TANK OF ONESHOT SPAM THAT NEVER DIES.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Zoe is so full of it, that he must be Karmelia.0 -
Do not argue with Ren, ren is stupid. Cancer can easily solo some1 without a pet out, with the pet out and normal atking, he can probably kill a by himself. Same goes for any other GOOD veno on the server.
A little note about purifying, 2 nights ago in the war vs BLT, we had 4 out of 6 party members bled. Platypuss purified himself and tried to heal/purify, but that's over 1 spark worth of purify and with venos atking those targets it's over before the third tick. Yes, there are skills that will help against flesh ream, but that doesn't discredit the fact that the skill is BROKEN and does unreduced dmg.
Berserk may sound really dangerous, but it doesn't really hurt when you can just fly away from the classes that can use it. If you are stunned for long enough to get zerked, or get unlucky enough to get zerk crit, that's a different story. Zerk is 5-10%, crit is about that much too, so the chance of zerk crit is small. Not to mention that every robe class has like +100% phy defense (or plume shell).Bleed hits almost every time and goes through plume shell, it's not even a contest.Ren - Lost City wrote: »Then start advocating removal of berserk weapons, or allowing them on mage weapons.
And turning barbarians into a MEATSHIELD TANK, instead of its current CANNON-FIRING MELEE TANK OF ONESHOT SPAM THAT NEVER DIES.0 -
Unfortunately Ren WereBeast don't one shot every 5 seconds like a venos bleed, and they don't one shot you when you get hh90 armour. Also the chance for a Werebeast with 10% critical which is more or less what werebeast have, with the 5% chance of zerk going off is one out of every 300 hits youll get zerk crit. Honestly you have fox form higher pdef, earth barrier for mages plume shell for clerics every class has something to combat zerkcrit.. nothing to combat bleed which happens every FIVE seconds... FIVE seconds FIVE... I like that one out of 300 hits zerk crits alot more then bleed.0
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Latentkarma - Lost City wrote: »Funny thing is. I see everyone screaming "this is a bug this is a bug" but I don't see anyone showing HOW it's a bug? Where has it ever been called a bug
Read the main post of the thread k?
Just don't start a flame war, I kinda don't want this to be locked and let's not go off topic about berserk >.>0 -
Which brings me right back to my point. it's PLAYERS screaming. Nothing from Devs or GM's. And your math is off. My lvl 70 Phoenix vs a vl 70 barb, Phoenix ticked 234 damage per hit and bleed (lvl 4) did about 800 per tick. I nuked for 1.4k+. Barb killed me in short order even after my pet stunned him. He survived the bleed easily with the use of one powder.Read the main post of the thread k?
Just don't start a flame war, I kinda don't want this to be locked and let's not go off topic about berserk >.>
LK - Saitada's LC alt.0 -
Latentkarma - Lost City wrote: »Which brings me right back to my point. it's PLAYERS screaming. Nothing from Devs or GM's. And your math is off. My lvl 70 Phoenix vs a vl 70 barb, Phoenix ticked 234 damage per hit and bleed (lvl 4) did about 800 per tick. I nuked for 1.4k+. Barb killed me in short order even after my pet stunned him. He survived the bleed easily with the use of one powder.
LK - Saitada's LC alt.
"lvl 70 phoenix" I'm talking about a lvl 93 phoenix here, don't say my numbers are off unless you have actual proof, and they can't be off because they are maths. Unless you say and prove that I made a mistake calculating those numbers, I suggest you shut up. I'm not making numbers up, they're all real, and if I have to, I'll ask the person to take a SS of her phoenix stats and I'll also take a SS of my % dmg reduction then you can do the math over and over again to end up to the same result.0 -
"lvl 70 phoenix" I'm talking about a lvl 93 phoenix here, don't say my numbers are off unless you have actual proof, and they can't be off because they are maths. Unless you say and prove that I made a mistake calculating those numbers, I suggest you shut up. I'm not making numbers up, they're all real, and if I have to, I'll ask the person to take a SS of her phoenix stats and I'll also take a SS of my % dmg reduction then you can do the math over and over again to end up to the same result.
Also like to note that light armour pdef reduction is with +5 physical defense belt and necklace. I know because its mine b:chuckle
WF can pvp quite capably without a bleed skill especially with the normal attack damage of a phoenix which is pretty nice(800 per hit). Iv been hit 9k crit by cancer when we were both 89. Debuff Amp Hell fury crit. GG b:surrender
Ren u failed to mention PandaLord has a +6 GX and is 93...Also u are in robes go get some decent light or heavy and see how much he hits u. Also learn to use fox form +120% pdef.
Latentkarma - Barbs are the anti-phoenix class talk about how u do against the other 5 classes not barbs pl0x. Also at 7x i hit barbs about 800 with lightning and ur pet does it alone? Get to 9x then talk that is where u really see how imbalanced bleed is.Official Guild History
Conqueror->kamisama0 -
Torinchibi - Lost City wrote: »Do not argue with Ren, ren is stupid. Cancer can easily solo some1 without a pet out, with the pet out and normal atking, he can probably kill a by himself. Same goes for any other GOOD veno on the server.
Yeah, and he's only 10 levels higher, has lvl 11 skills, and better gear than most foxes on the server, amirite? He'll still get wasted without his pet, and he's easier to kill than the good heavy foxes.
Chaotiic, go buy glasses, I wear pdef jewels and 78light gear. I've never worn a robe. Ever.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Zoe is so full of it, that he must be Karmelia.0 -
Ren - Lost City wrote: »Yeah, and he's only 10 levels higher, has lvl 11 skills, and better gear than most foxes on the server, amirite? He'll still get wasted without his pet, and he's easier to kill than the good heavy foxes.
Cancer has average gear for a 9x and can kill other 9x without a pet i have seen him do it. When he was 8x he used to jump in the water at undines so he HAD no pet summoned and kill people. He was feared back before the phoenix came out when he just had a beeb:surrender When phoenix came out he was 9x yet used lv 60 light armor with mana shards in it to pvp just to take the **** and show how OP the phoenix is. So yeah comments about his gear is irrelevant. Btw when i fight him he deals 1.9-2.3k damage and crits really hurt so much for venos being weak. Cancer is someone who shows us the veno class is not gimped and is one player u dont even wanna fight 2v1.Official Guild History
Conqueror->kamisama0 -
Sorry to break your trolling, but unless you SEE the phoenix miles away coming into your direction, purifying work do ****, they will just stun you and recast it.No, not really. It lasts 9 seconds, plenty of potting/healing/running/PURIFYING time. It works this way:
Pet casts skill, player takes normal pet attack damage and gains bleed effect.
3 seconds pass, bleed ticks (let's say 1.2k on a same level target).
3 seconds pass, bleed ticks.
3 seconds pass, bleed ticks.
UNLESS YOU OMG PURIFY IT!!! OMG THAT'S SHEER GENIUS. I mean, they didnt make clerics to run around attacking people, did they.
Real Scenario:
Was on TW, attacking the enemy gate towers, suddenly i notice a phoenix coming on my direction (i was healing the catapult), by the time i hit esc and then purify (about 2-3 seconds top), i was killed by by:
1) Veno stun/attacks kills, weak damage but 500-1000 is still damaeg.
2) Phoenix NORMAL attacks still hit somewhere about 1000 damage. And that pet attacks fast.
3) First bleed tick, 1k damage. Second tick happened JUST when i casted purify.
Result?
Dead cleric.
And this was a fraction of 2-3 seconds alone. The time i had to stop casting (hit ESC), and cast purify, the phoenix flew about 15m into my direction, did a normal attack, first bleed DOT hits IMMEDIATELY (like all dot skills), did a second attack, second DOT tick, purify was cast, pet did third attack, i was on the ground.
(Note: Im not even considering the veno attacks, as i didnt pay attention).(Retired from Perfect World)
[SIGPIC]http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t297/Brain1203/smart.jpg[/SIGPIC]0 -
was it really necerssary to even add battle pets.. I liked it the way it wasWe're MysticAve my name is not Dave
(Poem in the making - Shall be epic)0 -
Ren - Lost City wrote: »I thought conq isn't supposed to troll huh? Oh, right, hypocrisy is the greatest thing ever.
I don't know where you got that idea but it's about as correct as your claims about the bleed skill.
Go reroll, learn to play an archer instead of fighting for this ridiculous glitch.
PS: Stop QQing about Berserk. If you can't kite a melee class when you're the only class that can deal constant damage while moving (via the pet) then you should not be playing this game. Or any game.Mysticlifex - Heavens Tear wrote: »was it really necerssary to even add battle pets.. I liked it the way it was
LOL FAC. You already "outdamage mages", you want to be superior to venomancers too?0 -
"lvl 70 phoenix" I'm talking about a lvl 93 phoenix here, don't say my numbers are off unless you have actual proof, and they can't be off because they are maths. Unless you say and prove that I made a mistake calculating those numbers, I suggest you shut up. I'm not making numbers up, they're all real, and if I have to, I'll ask the person to take a SS of her phoenix stats and I'll also take a SS of my % dmg reduction then you can do the math over and over again to end up to the same result.
I'm going by what I have experienced, and from what I have seen from others. Phoenix flesh ream does NOT increase in power after it has reached lvl 5, it stays at that intensity. period. The only thing that does change is the phoenix's base attack. lvl 5 flesh ream is pretty strong, but your not going to bleed out from it before the 93 phoenix itself kills you. That 93 phoenix will kill you under most circumstances before the second tick from flesh ream hits you or at worst, you might have the third tick take your last 200-300 hp out, which doesn't matter anyway as you would have died with the phoenix's next base attack.
I Have a phoenix and regardless of how nasty flesh ream is, the bird does more damage with it's base attack per second, than flesh ream ticks off every three seconds, with few exceptions (one exception is a high phys def character running with phys def sharded armor, in which case the birds damage with it's base attack can be anywhere from a 200-800 at my pets current level. Which gives barbs and Blades a fair chance at being able to drop my squishy **** in short order.)
I suggest YOU ease up. I run a phoenix. when you run one, you can do the math yourself then. Until you SEE what damage the pet does against the various classes from the veno's side, you can't say ****. People who die to a phoenix die more from it's attack, than from it's bleed, although to be fair to you, the bleed does add to the damage output, but again, the phoenix's base attack in most cases is the killer. 3/4 of the time I don't even use flesh ream when i'm fighting unless i'm up against a serious high phys def character or a higher level barb/blade, I just kill you with my attacks and my phoenix's base attack.
Your math would be accurate under ideal conditions for the veno. Start adding phys def shards etc and that math starts failing. Bleed only really becomes a factor against high phys def characters. If you have "normal" phys def ratings, the phoenix will simply peck you to death faster than you can say "oh ****, where the hell did that come from".
LK0
![http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t297/Brain1203/smart.jpg[/SIGPIC]](http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t297/Brain1203/smart.jpg[/SIGPIC]){kind=link}
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