The Phoenix - Actual Numbers

Llama - Lost City

Coraline - Lost City wrote: »

So..the bleed dmg is a bug...and venos are using that bug to kill people. So..wouldn't that be exploiting a bug and therefore receive the consequences for doing that? I mean..they ban venos for glitching Gouf and pulling the boss out of fb29, so why not this? I know this is way too extreme but the veno's were all up in arms how the archers should be banned for glitching the zhen skill.

Back on topic...I would be fine with veno's with nix's just if they actually fought and not let the nix do bleed and sit back at a comfortable distance while I quickly bleed to death.

First of all if you knew how to zhen you would know its not a glitch. Read the skill. "This will not stop until canceled or target is killed." Since you don't kill people in duel its hardly abusing a glitch its just using the skill to its potential.

The only issue venos have is that they build their entire class around this coding error. I have seen plenty of PVP capable WF that own with other skills, but by far most abuse the bug.

Fiery - Lost City

ren is a **** re.tard
The thought of a wf kiting and still able to kill people with phoenix just disgusts me, i would be the first person to trumpet and thank the gm when they finally fix bleed. That way wf with crappy gear like you better up your gear to compete, instead of just paying for a bird that cost under $200 and still be able to kill people that dumps thousands in their gears and talk shiet.

Zoe - Heavens Tear

Fiery - Lost City wrote: »

ren is a **** re.tard
The thought of a wf kiting and still able to kill people with phoenix just disgusts me, i would be the first person to trumpet and thank the gm when they finally fix bleed. That way wf with crappy gear like you better up your gear to compete, instead of just paying for a bird that cost under $200 and still be able to kill people that dumps thousands in their gears and talk shiet.

I have 3 words to say about this post.

Quoted for truth.

Llama - Lost City

Latentkarma - Lost City wrote: »

I usually observer visually and watch for damage. I've seen the Bleed tick out. Barb on Sanc my level, phoenix hit for a bit over 260 and bleed ticked for 800+ (I remember this number because it appears to be a constant rather than a variable). Phoenix hit 3-4 times per bleed tick (780 - 1040 damage between ticks). so at lvl 70 with lvl 4 flesh ream. my phoenix's attack does more damage (albiet only slightly more damage) to this lvl 7 sharded barb with fairly decent TT70 armor and a few Legendary pieces. Effectively it's doing about 2k damage per three- four seconds. While I know and agree that the skill needs to be adjusted to be in line with other PVP skills (what was it.. 50% reduction in pvp like other skills?), the pet IS a legendary pet... it's not elite, it's super elite.. so it should do massive and evil damage to make it worth the cost.

Also.. the pets skill reads "Bite an enemy, inflicting base damage plus 180% of pets damage over 9 seconds". If that is the case, either I have just NOT seen the change in bleed as my pet has leveled up (he got lvl 4 flesh ream as soon as he could.. I actually can't remember what level that was.... his bleed has not changed damage that I have noticed since that lvl, it still ticks off the same amount, about 834-856 per tick I think.... but i'm willing to accept that I may just not have noticed the change).

Anyway.. i'mma do some checking myself to confirm what your saying. If my checking backs you up, I'll be here eating crow and agreeing with your math. if not, i'll try to provide you with more accurate assessments of what i'm seeing from my end so we can figure out what i'm seeing -vs- what your seeing and why (lvl difference not withstanding).

Saitada

Before pheonix there was the bee, which also used flesh ream by most veno. That was still a ridiculous amount of damage. And a WF with that Bee still 1 shots me. Of course the damage will be low on heavy. But you're saying you hit a HEAVY 2K damage with a PHYSICAL skill? Thats like an archer base shooting a WB for 2K a hit, thats absurd. The bee, was easy to kill the pheonix is not. What you buy is a great PVP, fast pet, with huge life and damage. What you added is the glitch. The problem lies in the skill not the pet.

Ren - Lost City

blooknight wrote: »

wow... Ren knows how to pvp? prolly run away... wat u do is run up in circles and send ur phoenix to kill and if ur phoenix dies u run in sz and summon it again.b:sad WF has debuffs, stuns, DoTs(damage over time) and and massive nukes. also a fox form with 120% additional armor.. a good veno will never post wat ren is posting here right now therefore Ren is one of the worst player ever.

Stfu, how is it that I debuff people then? Did my cancel and amp suddenly gain a 50m cast range?? Oh right, you're talking out of your **** because you don't even play on the same server as me and wouldn't know.

I wouldn't be killing wbs higher level than me if I did what you said. Which I do.

Llama - Lost City

Ren - Lost City wrote: »

Stfu, how is it that I debuff people then? Did my cancel and amp suddenly gain a 50m cast range?? Oh right, you're talking out of your **** because you don't even play on the same server as me and wouldn't know.

I wouldn't be killing wbs higher level than me if I did what you said. Which I do.

No, you stfu. You're the only one arguing here. b:cute Do me a favor kills someone without ripping bite, take a screen shot, and post it here. Just so you can prove yourself wrong.

Still bitter cuz you were the first to get 60 on the server? but ultimately you're worthless?

Platypuss - Lost City

Ren you said earlier you killed 2 mages 2v1 without ripping bite or stun... You have just proved your only point wrong venos can PK without OP bleed. Just fix the bleed don't get rid of it make it do normal damage. Then after that we can focus on overpowered Tanks. So if you would kindly quit arguing against it so we can make ONE step to making the game fair that would be awesome. We have to start somewhere lets start off with the worst of them all.

Zoe - Heavens Tear

Platypuss - Lost City wrote: »

Ren you said earlier you killed 2 mages 2v1 without ripping bite or stun... You have just proved your only point wrong venos can PK without OP bleed. Just fix the bleed don't get rid of it make it do normal damage. Then after that we can focus on overpowered Tanks. So if you would kindly quit arguing against it so we can make ONE step to making the game fair that would be awesome. We have to start somewhere lets start off with the worst of them all.

Its just like a class in another game I used to play. They had an attack that when the player was level 80, could 1 shot a max level which is 180. Yet even with everyone else in the game knowing how broken that skill is, the users would not stop defending it. They just DO NOT want anything to be actually fair in any way shape or form.

Platypuss - Lost City

The crazy thing to is the recast time and the fact the skill is not even a rare skill you can just buy it from the npc and teach it to a phoenix. Sooo.... that is another evidence of it not suppose to be an ultimate destruction skill.

Ren - Lost City

Llama - Lost City wrote: »

No, you stfu. You're the only one arguing here. b:cute Do me a favor kills someone without ripping bite, take a screen shot, and post it here. Just so you can prove yourself wrong.

The only thing I can kill my level if they fix bleed is robe foxes, most mages, MAYBE archers if lucky. Won't be any chance against WRs unless they're stupid/poorly geared because of broken stun, and werebeasts with zerk are a definite no chance since i wont get past the charm and they hit like a train despite being the meatshield class. Fixing bramble would help a bit but they wont do it.

Still bitter cuz you were the first to get 60 on the server? but ultimately you're worthless?

I was the first to get 60? That's news to me... wasn't Ara the first, or at least one of the first? Either way, I was like 56 when he was 62 or 63. Don't have much grind tolerance. Never caught up til he quit.

Zoe - Heavens Tear

You say just now you won't be killing anyone without it, yet here....

Ren - Lost City wrote: »

I killed Danika and some other mage who were both higher level than me in a 2v1. Coincidentally enough, they died before i realized they were casting on me.

I had both the stun and bleed turned off.

You said just the opposite. You have fallen into a trap you can't get out of.

blooknight

wow ren... i dont know wat to say.. u were saying venos cant kill anyone w/o bleed now u just stated u killed someone without bleed. can u stop crying on this post please? its getting worthless. its as if ur asking to buff a EA to be able to kill a WB on beast form in melee range 1v1 w/o using mag atk skills. too bad u never seen Cancer pvp on the other side coz u guys always hide beside his ****. cancer does well w/o phoenix and we all know it well since we fight him like almost everyday. its just that the bleed so s2pidly OP that once u have it on u ur like out of the fight immediately. and dont QQ about zerk. that is the only thing melees have to kill sm1 equiped with heiro. and its just wrong for a tank class to be owned solo by a pet 10 lvls lower than him when bosses doesnt even hit them that hard b:sad so if u mind ren stop sh!tting on urself on this topic and stop posting. ur making urself look like an idiot. or maybe ur just an idiot with an ego..

Ren - Lost City

Mages are gimp, what do you expect. Give me a real stun so I can fight warriors fairly?

blooknight

wats with ur one sided suggestions ren.... warriors has a melee stun and they are lucky if it hits or gets u. u have a ranged stun and so as archers. wat else can u ask? a spell that can 1 shot all classes? give us a break ren. this topic is about glitched phoenix bleed. not how bad u are in pvp.b:surrender

Llama - Lost City

I wouldn't agree that WF would suck in PVP without ripping bite. They can have 2 sets of damage hitting people at all times.
Can debuff
Amplify
Instant HP switch

Seriously you guys won't suck if you took the time to build your class like everyone else instead of relying on an obvious glitch. The devs aren't so dumb as to purposefully OP the bleed to that extent. with the PVP reduction it still hurts, but you would have to work in concert with your pet not just run away.

drag0nball

Ren - Lost City wrote: »

You've wasted your time posting this horse ****. First of all, stop dueling foxes that are HIGHER LEVEL THAN YOU, AND THEN WHINING ABOUT IT.

Second, your grammar says a lot about the value of what comes out of of your mouth.

Dear nice and "I'M SO HIGH LEVEL" allmighty wise Ren.
1. First of all. As you have read my post I never insulted you and I noer said your name with in. Still what I was saying it was a fact and it was TRUE FACT! So I wish that you give the proper respect just as I did. I didn't blame you. I only said if VENO's are complaining. Sorry about that you found yourself in that category...

2. Secondly. Where did I said it was a higher lvl than me? I don't remember. We were at the same level dueling. And then again for you I say WITHUOT A PET! And Same level. And again for you to don;t miss a thing...without a pet and and same level (and me with al best skills learned). Comprehende? Shall I say this again for you to don't improvize? And I still was beaten no matter what I did. WITHOUT PET and SAME LEVEL REN!!! Never miss this little detail. It is very very important I think.

3. You said that all I wrote it was a horse **** but you couldn't denied what I was saying about venomancers because everything was true. So you found a way to insult me and to insult my post that was a "horse ****". well this what people should do. if they can't find a way to prove me wrong then just say it's horse **** or bullsh***. All you can do.

4. And the last one but not the least. You judged my value comparing my grammar. So if I can't talk english so well than I am a ****, outcasted, silly, stupid, noob??? Well please at least don't be ashamed about your kind because I am starting to believ like that.
Before to judge me you should know me better than that. And te fact that I must say that I am not english at all so I might be inferior to you?
I understand 4 languages and the english is my 3rd language and I wasn't in any english territory to learn more to speak english. And I wish you to stop insulting at least if you are ashamed to apology about the facts that I cannot speak so well like you. I learned english only from school...2 hours/week. What level did you expect on that intense english learning???
If you are pretending so superior to me than let me ask: can you speak 4 languages? Even with or without grammar mistakes... If you can then I will allow you to insult me. But then again I 'm not so sure that you can speak more languages than your own.

PS. Oh and BTW nice to meet you.

Sorry guys but I must to say this for her.

And now back to the main topic...I don't agree that venos have no skills. They have if yo learn it and know how to use it. Ren, I think you just don't know how to play...thats all. You choosed Venomancer because it was the easiest soloer class and didin't wanted to think more and train how to be a good fighter just "let go the insane phoenix and he will do all for ya." You are winnning even if 3-4 people are attacking you at the same time and guess what. 0,02% chance for other people to escape. You said mage gimps right??? Yes. And that's the way how it should be as I understand. Don't youthink that for a mage the spells are more than 20 million coin overall? They need to learn almost every spells and costs so much as a phoenix if you are calculating in gold. But venos never gimps as you like it. And even with phoenix bleed they are invincible. And now you think that's the way how it should be too? It is a huge unbalance don't you think? Well if you cannot accept to be other classes to affirm such as venomancers to be the game much more beautifull and interesting with more classes and if you like your skilled veno and phonix "Miss I'm so high level" (because I see that you judge people by their character levels too) then I wish yo that all ither classes just abandon his class and all poeple just start to make venomancers and venomancers. An after a while all people will have phoenix eventually. And then you can't fight a glimp class only another venomancer with phonix. I guess even that won't make you happy because other classes know how to play and you will always loose because you never was trained at all what combo to use un what time...only the simple way.

blo0dyyay

Seems like ren is the only one suporting the phoenix bug, even other veno's think it needs to be nerfed.

Threat = fail, unless the dev's actualy are going to read and fix those lines, thq.

AlpineFrost - Lost City

Ren,

Could you please do us a favor and walk into on-coming traffic?

Thanks,
Alpine

Granrey - Sanctuary

Stupid suggestion.

If the pet is so overpowered. What people should do is simply not to fight Venos with that pet.

I know is sound like coward, but by doing that you leave them no option than fighting themselves of giving up on using the pet.

I'm on PVE server but I assume you might still be able to run away on the other servers.

In other words, we go on strike as workers do.

Ren - Lost City

blo0dyyay wrote: »

Seems like ren is the only one suporting the phoenix bug, even other veno's think it needs to be nerfed.

Threat = fail, unless the dev's actualy are going to read and fix those lines, thq.

Where did I say it doesn't need fixed? I just said it's not as bad as you're bitching about and that some other classes are almost just as broken as bleed.

I said foxes need buffed when it is, or I want my 87 fox refunded with an 87 werebeast or warrior because they are broken in PVP. BECAUSE ALL THE FOXES KNEW THAT BLEED WAS IN FOR YEARS, AND PROBABLY NEVER BE FIXED. The gms never said they'd be fixing the bleed bug, so they were encouraging people to roll a class they'd nerf.

Alpine, come up with insults better than one an 8 year old would use please.

AlpineFrost - Lost City

LMAO!

Ok Ren,

No one here likes you, i even recall reading your OWN GUILD doesnt like you! All you do is whine and contradict yourself, "Dont fix bleed i wont be able to kill anyone QQ!". "I dont need bleed to kill anyone i can kill people 1v2 with bleed AND stun dissabled." Seriously make up your mind you idiot!

You clearly can't play your class if the only reason you rolled it was for the overpowered bleed, and are now whining that the MIGHT fix it (which they should). And that you want a refund of another class the same lvl if they do?! ARE YOU FCKED? Either Re-roll now, cause you obviously arn't going to stand a chance when bleed gets fixed (because you dont understand how to play a veno at all), OR LEARN HOW TO PLAY YOUR FACKING CLASS.

Also, you might make some friends if you whined less and weren't so stupid. Try it sometime, works wonders. Seriously...

Ren - Lost City

AlpineFrost - Lost City wrote: »

LMAO!

Ok Ren,

No one here likes you, i even recall reading your OWN GUILD doesnt like you!

And I don't like them either, I mean, they're RAGEQUIT. You really can't blame me.

All you do is whine and contradict yourself, "Dont fix bleed i wont be able to kill anyone QQ!".

I said I won't be able to kill WRs and WBs.

"I dont need bleed to kill anyone i can kill people 1v2 with bleed AND stun dissabled." Seriously make up your mind you idiot!

I was making a point that only noobs die with fixed bleed. Ever seen Danika's level 40 heavy gear on his 80++ mage?

You clearly can't play your class if the only reason you rolled it was for the overpowered bleed, and are now whining that the MIGHT fix it (which they should). And that you want a refund of another class the same lvl if they do?! ARE YOU FCKED? Either Re-roll now, cause you obviously arn't going to stand a chance when bleed gets fixed (because you dont understand how to play a veno at all), OR LEARN HOW TO PLAY YOUR FACKING CLASS.

You don't listen very well, do you. I know how to play. But foxes gimpy spells give them little chance to kill a WR and no chance to kill a wb (unless hes a failbeast like musko, people like him dont count).

Also, you might make some friends if you whined less and weren't so stupid. Try it sometime, works wonders. Seriously...

Arguing is whining, and you not getting my point is me being stupid. Yeah right. Gotta love people talking **** about a class they've never played, you're as bad as Pandora with his "hell werebeasts suck" "hell werefoxes suck" bull.

drag0nball

WellI am on PWE server and I see many werefoxes training their phoenixees but they never grinding with squad not even if the mob is wood elemental. Why? It is obvoius...they will be slowing down the lvl of the phopenix and themselves su much. Amny players can only kill 1 mob and needs time for it. Until I killed a lvl 80 butterfly the phoenix killed already 4 with his AOE and all. And they can belvld so fast even at higher lvls. And if venomancers say that it is not as bad as people say itis then I suggest trying any other class and than after a time I'm sure you will say that Venomancers are cheaters. Even venomancers says this to me. Too many overpowerness in every terms.
Sure there are poor venos weak venos but thats only because does not know how to be strong.
The lvl 74-75 Veno when I was at his lvl she said she will duel me with out pet because she wants to be fair. And she was and she won no matter what I did with all my maxed skills.Even with the succesfull Blade Tempest could not defeat her. So...khm...yes...they are strong.
But then again many venomancer players does not know how and when to use their skills. Maybe because they had the pet as to cover them and never was trying to think more combos. Even in myserver I know only 3-4 venomancers who are not just strong, cause a good players too even without a pet you can't defeat him. So if they use the skills right..they can be flawless.

Skyannie - Lost City

Ren - Lost City wrote: »

You don't listen very well, do you. I know how to play. But foxes gimpy spells give them little chance to kill a WR and no chance to kill a wb (unless hes a failbeast like musko, people like him dont count).

I don't see why a robe should be able to kill a physical stunlocking class if it's not because they out skill them or overpower them. Also, NO CLASS should be able to solo a high level WB, it beats the purpose of the class, they are tankers. If one person could solo a WB, they wouldn't survive a second during TW, you just want to be godly, which suggests adding a "kill" button. Although it does happen, I don't see it as a valid argument to keep an obvious glitch. I think you should just learn your skills.

blo0dyyay

Ren - Lost City wrote: »

Where did I say it doesn't need fixed? I just said it's not as bad as you're bitching about and that some other classes are almost just as broken as bleed.

I said foxes need buffed when it is, or I want my 87 fox refunded with an 87 werebeast or warrior because they are broken in PVP. BECAUSE ALL THE FOXES KNEW THAT BLEED WAS IN FOR YEARS, AND PROBABLY NEVER BE FIXED. The gms never said they'd be fixing the bleed bug, so they were encouraging people to roll a class they'd nerf.

Yes, lemme make a veno to 89 (easy earning cash + lvling) and than complain i want an archer or something because my class is broken! veno's have a unique buff? GM's never said it indeed but its still a BUG, what do dev's do? sit, eat, sleep, breath? they actualy bring patches, what do patches do? event, expansion, BUGFIX

b:bye

Ren - Lost City

Skyannie - Lost City wrote: »

Also, NO CLASS should be able to solo a high level WB, it beats the purpose of the class, they are tankers.

Exactly, werebeasts are tankers, not damage dealers. Yet explain to me why DestroyTokyo one shot a warrior his level, wearing heavy armor.
Explain to me why the unkillable tank is also the unstoppable tank 1-3 shotting light armor classes.

Tanks are supposed to tank people and annoy them, not **** them.

Llama - Lost City

Ren - Lost City wrote: »

Exactly, werebeasts are tankers, not damage dealers. Yet explain to me why DestroyTokyo one shot a warrior his level, wearing heavy armor.
Explain to me why the unkillable tank is also the unstoppable tank 1-3 shotting light armor classes.

Tanks are supposed to tank people and annoy them, not **** them.

o_O the 1 hit skills any heavy class or any class has costs at least 2 spark. Flesh ream? 1 hits and all you have to do is click a button.

Your arguments are wearing thin. Quit grasping at straws.

AlpineFrost - Lost City

Ren,

take your own advice, "dont talk about a class you dont understand.".

As for DestroyTokyo, I've seen him in action and he is an excellent PKer, who knows his class VERY well. Unlike you. And he was more than likely Pking in humanoid form, which doesn't suffer the dmg reduction that tiger would while PKing. Unless he is a demon WB and has the skill book for true form of course.

Of course he can take out a WR easy. HES A PHYSICAL TANK! Sure he deals physical dmg, but he has far more HP and deff to physical dmg than a WR and deals slightly less dmg. No wonder he won?! Seeing as WRs deal phys dmg as well..? durr.

edit: I'd also like to point out, that there is an apoth item that makes you immune to stuns for a brief time. Either the BM got really unliky with his stuns, or destroytokyo was using em.

tatakairyu

AlpineFrost - Lost City wrote: »

Of course he can take out a WR easy. HES A PHYSICAL TANK! Sure he deals physical dmg, but he has far more HP and deff to physical dmg than a WR and deals slightly less dmg. No wonder he won?! Seeing as WRs deal phys dmg as well..? durr.

edit: I'd also like to point out, that there is an apoth item that makes you immune to stuns for a brief time. Either the BM got really unliky with his stuns, or destroytokyo was using em.

He said one shot a Blademaster his level. Never said a Barbarian wasn't supposed to beat one. You're talking about how much hp and defense a Barbarian has which wouldn't matter because the Blademaster got one shot anyway.

Ren - Lost City wrote: »

Exactly, werebeasts are tankers, not damage dealers. Yet explain to me why DestroyTokyo one shot a warrior his level, wearing heavy armor.

AlpineFrost - Lost City

Im not sure if you're familiar with something we like to call a critical? It's very rare, but we WBs can pull them off too.