Skill Glyph System in the next expansion
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@dingo488 actually in my experience youre right I get blown up by more diety archers than i can count..... I suspect that might be because im a juicy seeker just waiting for a purge and a few crits tho.
Archers definitely have the lame buff disease though with five times worse issues when it comes to their survival skills like their... Wing.... Shell. Thing. (i play archer lots) that kind of stuff is just sad sad sad.
@dregenfox yasssss i totally hear you. Mystic was my second choice to play and im sort of glad i didnt pick it. They are ah-ma-zing in mass pvp, so good imo but if we had for example cns purify proc... Ohman. Would feel bad i think.
I am really really interested to see how things go as g17 becomes the meta because from this perspective i honestly believe r9 puri is way too essential for survivability for a ton of classes, especially mystic. But we will have to see. Too, mystics i hear are getting purify plant option..... That could be so broken but its sorely needed for them to be desired in group instances. I think mystics would be requested over clerics once that change is available!
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@dingo488 actually in my experience youre right I get blown up by more diety archers than i can count..... I suspect that might be because im a juicy seeker just waiting for a purge and a few crits tho.
Archers definitely have the lame buff disease though with five times worse issues when it comes to their survival skills like their... Wing.... Shell. Thing. (i play archer lots) that kind of stuff is just sad sad sad.
Thats more of a seeker problem really. The moment you QPQ, archer can just unleash on you with everything. Double spark to puri and gain attack + BV + EP Is pretty brutal, it does cost 3 sparks though. Unless you are pretty good or outgear your opponent you are forced genie/apoths. If those are down, archer has pretty good shot at killing you. This is because, least in the past, the combination of slow seeker channel, defense charms and seekers relying on ZCs allowed archers to mostly ignore playing defensively as long as QPQ is on CD and you aren SS comboed.
The problems archers have had is lack of CC and lackluster damage. Next expansion is gonna fix CC issue, the channel rune on Stunning Arrow is just so juicy. Lack of CC also meant lower geared players struggled more than their counterparts on other classes. If your damage is lackluster and you got no decent CC, what on earth is your role? Purge bot?
Dont get me wrong, I have championed archers having a role in mass always, even before the light at the end of tunnel started to shine. But calling archers strong is still bit meh currently even in mass. After we get next update though? Yea, archers definitely lose their status as crappiest class in game.0 -
this is number of lvl1 rune to upgrade to lvl 10
1*3*3*6*4*4*6*5*5*6=777600!!!!!!
source: pwcn forumMain Chars in tidewell:
Attacker_V: archer
Seraphim_V: Veno
xNightshadowx: db0 -
this is number of lvl1 rune to upgrade to lvl 10
1*3*3*6*4*4*6*5*5*6=777600!!!!!!
source: pwcn forum
Ohh so refining can be a 100% chance... do you have to use same level runes to refine?
That's also assuming you use only lvl 1 runes but it looks like you can farm lvl 4 runes as well. I didn't check the relative rates yet though.0 -
Used pwru forum for table. You can use 5 runes max for upgrade,so 3-5 runes of same lvl enough for 100% upgrade.
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@mars19 Thanks for sharing!0
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those chances tho.....
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aradya6793 wrote: »bs archers still need zerkbows,
the gap between mag and dex modifier is filled by the chance of zerkcrits and archer its the only LA class that doesnt have em
Crit alone should already fill the gap, melees need zerkcrit because they're melee and need to close the distance first, but with the new cc like paralyze, second life, skill dmg amp, dmg boost when hit for barbs, reel in, disarm, jump, paralyze for bms, distance can be said a non factor anymore but they still get to keep all the niceties. That's what makes Physical classes > than mag classes nowadays. I've said it many times doesn't matter if a pdef reach max 95% / 79317 pdef, 5% damage received will be quadrupled when zerkcrit, means 20% damage received thus renders the 95% redux to 80% redux when zerkcrit proc'ed or equal to 16,700 pdef. That's why zerkcrit is so painful even for heavy armors.0 -
Hmm, using that data it's actually better not to go for the 100% chance since those high level mats get really expensive.
This is the optimal route
Rune 1: Rune1 = 1
Rune 2: Rune1 + 2x Rune1 = 3
Rune 3: Rune2 + 2x Rune2 = 9
Rune 4: Rune3 + 5x Rune2 + (Rune3 - Rune2) = 45 (after ave of 2 attempts)
Rune 5: Rune4 + 3x Rune4 = 180
Rune 6: Rune5 + 3x Rune5 = 720
Rune 7: Rune6 + 5x Rune5 + (Rune6 - Rune5)*1.5 = 3780 (after ave of 2.5 attempts)
Rune 8: Rune7 + 5x Rune6 + (Rune7 - Rune6)*1.5 = 17370 (after ave of 2.5 attempts)
Rune 9: Rune8 + 5x Rune7 + (Rune8 - Rune7)*1.5 = 85005 (after ave of 2.5 attempts)
Rune 10: Rune9 + 5x Rune8 + (Rune9 - Rune8)*1.5 = 403582.5 (after ave of 2.5 attempts)
That's 48.1% cheaper than the 100% route cost of 777600 (after factoring in cost of recovering from failures and number of attempts needed).0 -
@asterelle I have space for the last interview. Are you interested in talking about this?0
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...interview? Are you a reporter now?
Nope I don't have the energy for that.
I set up the idea to be 4 slots for interviews with factions leaders. I have 3 (I think) So something the players will be interested in will be this expansion. Something I was hoping you may or would like to do something. Your call...
This is something Ive not done before so im not sure how this is going to work as its more of a trial run.. if it works ill keep it if it does not but the idea sticks ill try another format.
Thanks.0 -
...interview? Are you a reporter now?
Nope I don't have the energy for that.
I set up the idea to be 4 slots for interviews with factions leaders. I have 3 (I think) So something the players will be interested in will be this expansion. Something I was hoping you may or would like to do something. Your call...
This is something Ive not done before so im not sure how this is going to work as its more of a trial run.. if it works ill keep it if it does not but the idea sticks ill try another format.
Thanks.
Make sure it's a video. @asterelle 's people want proof of the bits.
eirghan sage seeker ♥ current gear ♥ youtube ♥ title quest guide
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...interview? Are you a reporter now?
Nope I don't have the energy for that.
I set up the idea to be 4 slots for interviews with factions leaders. I have 3 (I think) So something the players will be interested in will be this expansion. Something I was hoping you may or would like to do something. Your call...
This is something Ive not done before so im not sure how this is going to work as its more of a trial run.. if it works ill keep it if it does not but the idea sticks ill try another format.
Thanks.
Make sure it's a video. @asterelle 's people want proof of the bits.
Lol dat thread, once again hats off to Asterelle, #bringbacksweetieBOT!
aradya6793 wrote: »aradya6793 wrote: »bs archers still need zerkbows,
the gap between mag and dex modifier is filled by the chance of zerkcrits and archer its the only LA class that doesnt have em
Crit alone should already fill the gap, melees need zerkcrit because they're melee and need to close the distance first, but with the new cc like paralyze, second life, skill dmg amp, dmg boost when hit for barbs, reel in, disarm, jump, paralyze for bms, distance can be said a non factor anymore but they still get to keep all the niceties. That's what makes Physical classes > than mag classes nowadays. I've said it many times doesn't matter if a pdef reach max 95% / 79317 pdef, 5% damage received will be quadrupled when zerkcrit, means 20% damage received thus renders the 95% redux to 80% redux when zerkcrit proc'ed or equal to 16,700 pdef. That's why zerkcrit is so painful even for heavy armors.
ehy arcanes have a crit rate too eh...
arcane DPS considered their crit rate is similar to LA DPS considered their crit rate and zerk rate
if you remove the zerk rate from the equation arcanes have way better DPS than LAs
But if you keep the zerk rate from the equation arcanes have way lower DPS than Sin (LA), even though sin has lower weapon dmg value than other classes but it can triple spark more often, too often even and outdps other classes.
if you give zerk rate only to archers and not mag classes too, archers will have way better DPS than arcanes.
It's hard to keep track anymore and balance everything since there are too many factors to consider, imo it's not just as simple as comparing mag/dex modifier difference.
Most Phy classes except seeker can have purge weapon, and they can have purify spell weapon, why mag classes can't have purge weapon.0 -
...interview? Are you a reporter now?
Nope I don't have the energy for that.
I set up the idea to be 4 slots for interviews with factions leaders. I have 3 (I think) So something the players will be interested in will be this expansion. Something I was hoping you may or would like to do something. Your call...
This is something Ive not done before so im not sure how this is going to work as its more of a trial run.. if it works ill keep it if it does not but the idea sticks ill try another format.
Thanks.
Make sure it's a video. @asterelle 's people want proof of the bits.
Lol dat thread, once again hats off to Asterelle, #bringbacksweetieBOT!aradya6793 wrote: »aradya6793 wrote: »bs archers still need zerkbows,
the gap between mag and dex modifier is filled by the chance of zerkcrits and archer its the only LA class that doesnt have em
Crit alone should already fill the gap, melees need zerkcrit because they're melee and need to close the distance first, but with the new cc like paralyze, second life, skill dmg amp, dmg boost when hit for barbs, reel in, disarm, jump, paralyze for bms, distance can be said a non factor anymore but they still get to keep all the niceties. That's what makes Physical classes > than mag classes nowadays. I've said it many times doesn't matter if a pdef reach max 95% / 79317 pdef, 5% damage received will be quadrupled when zerkcrit, means 20% damage received thus renders the 95% redux to 80% redux when zerkcrit proc'ed or equal to 16,700 pdef. That's why zerkcrit is so painful even for heavy armors.
ehy arcanes have a crit rate too eh...
arcane DPS considered their crit rate is similar to LA DPS considered their crit rate and zerk rate
if you remove the zerk rate from the equation arcanes have way better DPS than LAs
But if you keep the zerk rate from the equation arcanes have way lower DPS than Sin (LA), even though sin has lower weapon dmg value than other classes but it can triple spark more often, too often even and outdps other classes.
if you give zerk rate only to archers and not mag classes too, archers will have way better DPS than arcanes.
It's hard to keep track anymore and balance everything since there are too many factors to consider, imo it's not just as simple as comparing mag/dex modifier difference.
Most Phy classes except seeker can have purge weapon, and they can have purify spell weapon, why mag classes can't have purge weapon.
I don't think purge would be as useful for magic classes because they really only have to deal with a single m. def buff and hp buff in most cases. Melee constantly have to deal with 100% self shields, cleric buffs, bm buffs, and p. def rings, as well as general p. def stacking by just about everyone except HA.
Besides that, I think caster zerk would just be too good to pass up. If it's anywhere near the proc rate for melee weapons, HA and LA classes are going to be in for a world of hurt.
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@jabq lol its ok in retrospect grumpy cat doesn't really fit the bill either. But he is damn loveable
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I don't think purge would be as useful for magic classes because they really only have to deal with a single m. def buff and hp buff in most cases. Melee constantly have to deal with 100% self shields, cleric buffs, bm buffs, and p. def rings, as well as general p. def stacking by just about everyone except HA.
Besides that, I think caster zerk would just be too good to pass up. If it's anywhere near the proc rate for melee weapons, HA and LA classes are going to be in for a world of hurt.
Now that you mentioned it, I just remember Rend might be the equivalent to purge for mag classes, or even better, -100mdef = -magicshell (60%), and 40% off from passive. Better than purge. But cleric can deal both phy/mag dmg, so purge would be okay too if it's on the menu.
Yea, zerk would be much better than purge. Same calculation like pdef, 79317 mdef or 95% redux = 5% dmg, times 4 = 20% or 80% redux which is equal to 16700 mdef, it's much better, purge can't affect passives. Maybe it's better without purge, or cleric would be so busy buffing the squad during mass. But since farming the mats takes forever, zerk would only be useful at 5th stage, maybe unless deity sharded.aradya6793 wrote: »well but if you put zerk rate in a g17 scenario on arcanes, there you go that arcanes come out on top again
imagine a 100k base damage psychic zerkcrit
surely will hit higher than any 50k base damage sin zerkcrits
and we talking about he will hit harder twice as much xD
Yea, but arcanes won't zerkcrit that often with less crit, in the end it will just be a matter of who hits first. As for sins, this is the answer for balance but it's still luck based. Sin gets too many dmg upgrades anyway and can triple spark often to offset the lack of base damage.
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How many runes do we get from the new instance ? Is it once per day or like TT can be farmed over and over again ? and is it bound ?0 -
They still remain the crappiest class. I don't know where you're pulling your falsified myths from, but every buff from passives to ones handed to other classes work against archers. Archers got a good buff, but like always Pales in comparison to the other classes. In this expansion Archers will come out on the worst end of the spectrum as always. If there was a patch that did nothing but Buff archers - it would make archer in-line with other classes.Dont get me wrong, I have championed archers having a role in mass always, even before the light at the end of tunnel started to shine. But calling archers strong is still bit meh currently even in mass. After we get next update though? Yea, archers definitely lose their status as crappiest class in game.aradya6793 wrote: »bs archers still need zerkbows,
the gap between mag and dex modifier is filled by the chance of zerkcrits and archer its the only LA class that doesnt have em
Crit alone should already fill the gap, melees need zerkcrit because they're melee and need to close the distance first, but with the new cc like paralyze, second life, skill dmg amp, dmg boost when hit for barbs, reel in, disarm, jump, paralyze for bms, distance can be said a non factor anymore but they still get to keep all the niceties. That's what makes Physical classes > than mag classes nowadays. I've said it many times doesn't matter if a pdef reach max 95% / 79317 pdef, 5% damage received will be quadrupled when zerkcrit, means 20% damage received thus renders the 95% redux to 80% redux when zerkcrit proc'ed or equal to 16,700 pdef. That's why zerkcrit is so painful even for heavy armors.
I don't get why people are still using the argument that crit damage fills the gap - especially for Archers. The new passives nerf critical damage - more for dealing with Zerk-Crits than Crits (archer got nerfed again). In addition Duskblade buffs take a tremendous amount of crit damage away from attacks. Zerk is soon to be the only true "crit" (2x damage) in game. "Crit" for all intents and purposes is just a damage multiplier now.
PW developers really screwed up on this one.Post edited by angellicdeity on0 -
angellicdeity wrote: »I don't get why people are still using the argument that crit damage fills the gap - especially for Archers. The new passives nerf critical damage - more for dealing with Zerk-Crits than Crits (archer got nerfed again). In addition Duskblade buffs take a tremendous amount of crit damage away from attacks. Zerk is soon to be the only true "crit" (2x damage) in game. "Crit" for all intents and purposes is just a damage multiplier now.
PW developers really screwed up on this one.
By nerfing critical damage, it applies to every class not just archer. So it should still fill the gap. Don't forget that there are many additions to the game, so when comparing an archer to other classes, the gears should be more or less equal.
Imo what makes archer kinda weak isn't its damage, but its skillset, archer doesn't have spammable dps skill, only regular atk which doesn't get boosted by skill damage passive.0 -
-angellicdeity wrote: »
They still remain the crappiest class. I don't know where you're pulling your falsified myths from, but every buff from passives to ones handed to other classes work against archers. Archers got a good buff, but like always Pales in comparison to the other classes. In this expansion Archers will come out on the worst end of the spectrum as always. If there was a patch that did nothing but Buff archers - it would make archer in-line with other classes.Dont get me wrong, I have championed archers having a role in mass always, even before the light at the end of tunnel started to shine. But calling archers strong is still bit meh currently even in mass. After we get next update though? Yea, archers definitely lose their status as crappiest class in game.
There wont be new passives to nerf archers next expansion and while the old pasives go nowhere we are still getting massive upgrades. Archer gets really strong buffs just from merging skills between sage and demon, we had reason to go both cultis so far and its for different reasons. So when you combine these reasons, you get something pretty strong.
And the main reason why archers have been so weak, specially in 1vs1, is lack of CC. We are getting ~6s ranged stun that costs no chi and has pretty low CD with chargeable rune on stunning arrow. That is extremely powerful, even if everybody and their mothers got purify, it still needs to proc. Higher rate on QS proc from demon too is pretty amazing, combining these and some classes will start to struggle surviving just the basic combo archers got.
This moaning bout archers is getting exhausting. No, archers wont be strongest class after upcoming expansion but it wont be the weakest either.0 -
And the main reason why archers have been so weak, specially in 1vs1, is lack of CC. We are getting ~6s ranged stun that costs no chi and has pretty low CD with chargeable rune on stunning arrow.
Eh, adding a second or two to a CC skill that everyone and thier mother has a resist to, not to mention 1/2 of all classes having Purify to possibly wipe it away on the very next hit, is hardly awe inspiring. What archers needed was a second usable control skill.
The skill updates do look promising, but I doubt they will do much to dig archers out of a nerf hole 5 years in the making.
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The buffs to archers were amazing. There really isn't a worst or best class anymore. Archers are great in mass pvp now, and extremely good in 1v1. They only lack instant killing power compared to sins/wiz/etc.
If anything I'd say psychics are at a pretty bad spot now. Unless geared to the teeth they're just free food vs paralyze spam, have chi problems, and they can't rely on nice ults + spark + free chi that wizards have. Plus undine is so much better than black voodoo...
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And the main reason why archers have been so weak, specially in 1vs1, is lack of CC. We are getting ~6s ranged stun that costs no chi and has pretty low CD with chargeable rune on stunning arrow.
Eh, adding a second or two to a CC skill that everyone and thier mother has a resist to, not to mention 1/2 of all classes having Purify to possibly wipe it away on the very next hit, is hardly awe inspiring. What archers needed was a second usable control skill.
The skill updates do look promising, but I doubt they will do much to dig archers out of a nerf hole 5 years in the making.
Considering my stun is 3s doubling the duration at pretty low level rune is amazing. The big issue with demon has always been the lack of proper CC to utilize QS proc to its max. Now we can Stun->QS and still have almost full duration of proc to dps on stun. Archer is not meant to be a CC class but we will now have ability to participate in that aspect of the game too - Right now our stun is nothing more but means for our melees to get in range of enemy.
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As a sage, I'm used to 5 seconds so the "upgrade" starts at -1.0 seconds for me. I wasn't even planning on doing the culti upgrade until I learned that in addition to the 100% stun rate, it also drops the base channel from 1.5 seconds to 1.0 seconds. Maybe with access to the demon QS proc I'll be able to make better use of the stun duration, but it's nothing great as it is now. Most casters Puri out of it long before the duration ends anyway (or proc as I'm channeling).Considering my stun is 3s doubling the duration at pretty low level rune is amazing. The big issue with demon has always been the lack of proper CC to utilize QS proc to its max. Now we can Stun->QS and still have almost full duration of proc to dps on stun. Archer is not meant to be a CC class but we will now have ability to participate in that aspect of the game too - Right now our stun is nothing more but means for our melees to get in range of enemy.
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I wonder if we get new gear or defence options along with this skills ?0
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If anything I'd say psychics are at a pretty bad spot now. Unless geared to the teeth they're just free food vs paralyze spam, have chi problems, and they can't rely on nice ults + spark + free chi that wizards have. Plus undine is so much better than black voodoo...
Apparently psy is the strongest class in China atm, so we probably can't expect them to get buffed in the near future. It's like they're playing a whole different game over there.0 -
Psychics are excellent control mages, not made to solo kill people, but they provide a lot of AoE crowd control from a very safe distance. I feel like a lot of people think when a class doesnt have solo kill potential its a bad class, but imo solo kills are the most overrated thing in the game.0
https://youtu.be/RkkWkigYd3k
. Must have been my pc. 
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