Skill Glyph System in the next expansion

dregenfox

dingo488 wrote: »

Psychics are excellent control mages, not made to solo kill people, but they provide a lot of AoE crowd control from a very safe distance. I feel like a lot of people think when a class doesnt have solo kill potential its a bad class, but imo solo kills are the most overrated thing in the game.

IMO they have some serious survival problems - no mobility besides purify, diminished/empowered vigor isn't as useful or op as it once was, and everyone's 7th/8th skill is going to be will surge.

If you want aoe control stormbringers/BM's and even mystics can do it better. There's just too much antistun going around for a class without seals or paralyzes to be useful...

I mean I guess you could go the nemki route and just stand way out in the front in white voodoo hoping people hit you and seal themselves...but again he can only do that because of his gear + support.

capnk

Problem is SB, mystic, and veno do the aoe control thing better. That's not a niche that's hurting for classes.

freygin

Imo tideborns are powerhouse, they have built in atk level buffs that actually act like pdef/mdef debuff and still can amp their dmg output further from other classes' debuff, they don't need too much combo this and combo that to create massive dmg output, they have it builtin with atk level buff and permanent as long as it's active, doesn't need to cast debuffs like other classes.
(Where I play might be different from PWI where almost everyone has r9, but on a server where there arent many r9, a deity r9 psy can kill pretty much anything that moves while still being quite tanky too, fighting psy 1v1 above my gears is harder than fighting wiz as a cleric imo)


Do psys really can't solo kill even with ulti that converts soulforce to matk ? It also has 2 spark skill that further boost matk and channeling that can stack with 3 spark. I can't even imagine how huge the dmg would be with these three skills stack together.

agol12

psy is **** atm, and prolly gonna be for a long time.

funny how all those archers cry ... when in the last 3 addons, psy got nothing but a shaft up the a

blazerboy

Psy imo were always the most expensive AA class in terms of what you NEED to be competitive. You either go all in or don't, if you don't think you will aspire for full +12 deity or jsod. Anything below that is honestly easy to put down. Not talking bad at anyone just my exp vs psys. Even a +11 psy to me feels like GG Easy compared to +12. Maybe that's just luck but people who try psy need to remember it's all or nothing here if you're down to go that road less traveled

eirghan

Agree with @blazerboy i think psys are one class where at end game can be truly op (check one of my xtw vids where end game psy gets chased around map for ten minutes until enough squads gather to wreck him) but theres a fine line between being ridiculous op and ridiculous easy.

That said ive met some very talented psys with less than end game. It just is more rare.

sylenthunder

blazerboy wrote: »

Psy imo were always the most expensive AA class in terms of what you NEED to be competitive. You either go all in or don't, if you don't think you will aspire for full +12 deity or jsod. Anything below that is honestly easy to put down. Not talking bad at anyone just my exp vs psys. Even a +11 psy to me feels like GG Easy compared to +12. Maybe that's just luck but people who try psy need to remember it's all or nothing here if you're down to go that road less traveled

Yeah, basically this. I'd personally draw the line at +10, but the difference between 10 and 11 is not a lot. Spirit and cards play a large factor as well, but the Psy is most likely the most expensive class to be competitive.​​

keihan007#7641

SylenThunder wrote: »

blazerboy wrote: »

Psy imo were always the most expensive AA class in terms of what you NEED to be competitive. You either go all in or don't, if you don't think you will aspire for full +12 deity or jsod. Anything below that is honestly easy to put down. Not talking bad at anyone just my exp vs psys. Even a +11 psy to me feels like GG Easy compared to +12. Maybe that's just luck but people who try psy need to remember it's all or nothing here if you're down to go that road less traveled

Yeah, basically this. I'd personally draw the line at +10, but the difference between 10 and 11 is not a lot. Spirit and cards play a large factor as well, but the Psy is most likely the most expensive class to be competitive.​​

Nah, archer is still currently more expensive class to be competitive. Psy can get kills with less gear compared to archer, even if they are easier to drop too. It all comes down to kill potential, archer is the most expensive class to get there hence making them the most expensive class to be competitive. I suspect this changes soon enough with the next expansion but we`ll see.

But at endgame archer is stronger than a psy as voodoos either make psy extremely squishy or they deal no damage, making dealing with them pretty easy.

weapon762

They really need to shorten qpq sac slash cd time for that reason ...we are like always waiting for combo cds after using blade affinity.

keihan007#7641

weapon762 wrote: »

They really need to shorten qpq sac slash cd time for that reason ...we are like always waiting for combo cds after using blade affinity.

One of the stronger debuff/buff combos at 0 chi(?) cost at 30s CD with 15 up time. Yea, totally needs a rework.

weapon762

Come on sax just say yes to an sac slash +qpq upgrade

*slips a $20
In your pocket when nobody is looking

blazerboy

@saxroll my only counter arguement to this is archers have the most upsetting skill in my opinion as of late. I don't know your experience but on DA at SP pk (yes we are the server with no logic and prefer to settling our differences where the geography screws us) anyways if a archer freezes you a little bit off the grown which is easy because of ya know spamable pushback or a SB/DB (also easy in tw) using the hop on flyer vortex trick which traps ppl just off of the ground. If a archer plays it right along or in tandem with a bm or hell a db using aoe freeze skills a archer can push a dozen ppl not back but in the sky where if they get cced up there without a flyer GG helpless the heck!? Psys can't take advantage of anything nearly as bad atleast there's many ways around Soul of Silence only that really sucks against Psys is gettin caught in Soul of Stunning or +12 psys Soul of Silence spam seals.

Second a full +10 deity card set archer(I say deity because I've seen one kill a endgame duskblade in reaper form at max distance with ulti and this set up GG maybe not if full jsod but that's rare) but this is ready to rekt stuff if played skillfully against most classes vs a full +10 jsod or deity psy is GG easy because it main point of defense Soul of Silence is joke and you won't need Night Howler or Will Surge just a combo that requires minimum skilll use which for some classes isn't hard.

While archers can still abuse a pushback a stealth leaps and wings of grace. Archers therefore in my experience are far cheaper and have far more saves

keihan007#7641

blazerboy wrote: »

While archers can still abuse a pushback a stealth leaps and wings of grace. Archers therefore in my experience are far cheaper and have far more saves

Eh, point of PK is to get kill, not to survive. I agree archer has pretty solid survivals and SoS doesnt become truly annoying till max +12 level. But Psy has plain more damage and kill potential on most classes making them "cheaper" of course being squishy is being squishy and if PKs purpose was to survive I would agree archer is cheaper. This is the kind of mindset I`ve been corrupted into, which is why I am getting free promo deities whenever I can till its time to finish NP and turn em into jades.

blazerboy

@saxroll while I will agree in terms of killing potential, archer compared to psy is lacking in this category especially if we are talking about endgame psys get really destructive. But if we talk about normal standard +10 r9 +12 wep no card set. I believe archer has more killing potential due to stuns,purge knockbacks Blood vow ect ect. But I can see your point at endgame but personally at +10 deity archer and +10 deity psy I'll face the psy any day over that archer

keihan007#7641

blazerboy wrote: »

@saxroll while I will agree in terms of killing potential, archer compared to psy is lacking in this category especially if we are talking about endgame psys get really destructive. But if we talk about normal standard +10 r9 +12 wep no card set. I believe archer has more killing potential due to stuns,purge knockbacks Blood vow ect ect. But I can see your point at endgame but personally at +10 deity archer and +10 deity psy I'll face the psy any day over that archer

Not really, psy will still hit harder, even if deities arent as good on them as they are on archer. As for archers killing potential, short of abusing locking ppl into air with knockback archer doesnt really have an edge. Psy has better stuns over archer, specially if we are talking your more common demon archers. And BV is honestly pretty crappy amp. Its better than nothing but not by much.

In mass archer can be more dangerous but they dont provide the killpressure themselves but enable it for others with purges and being annoying to kill. A psy has BV to add free attack levels to boost their damage, which makes them squishy but as long as you arent getting hit, its quite a bit more effective DD. Archers are that weird DD support micture and while you can embrace support side of things the class wont become effective till a lot of coin has been spent to upgrade damage to the point it matters.

blazerboy

@saxroll I suppose if you look at it from this perspective. Still a psy damage isn't really anything if his own defenses can't save him/her. If you have literally nothing but pure luck to rely on without a healer and with pots and genie on cd which is all a +10 psy has than it's dead you can argue psychic will but if a arcane class combos well enough he can deal the finishing blow gg. I'm not trying to get the wrong idea as in saying one class is better than the other they both have their uses ijs if we talk about what is wanted and NEEDED a psy NEEDS full +12 to be very self sufficient while a archer can do fine with just gems therefore even if a psy can caught more havoc for a group of ppl vs a archer single target it still doesn't change that archer can be fine with +11 deity (assuming you tisha +11 for free like a few ppl) vs using a full +11 psy archer has enough utility skillwise to survive most classes, while psy depends directly on SF which you need lots of money

angellicdeity

blazerboy wrote: »

@saxroll I suppose if you look at it from this perspective. Still a psy damage isn't really anything if his own defenses can't save him/her. If you have literally nothing but pure luck to rely on without a healer and with pots and genie on cd which is all a +10 psy has than it's dead you can argue psychic will but if a arcane class combos well enough he can deal the finishing blow gg. I'm not trying to get the wrong idea as in saying one class is better than the other they both have their uses ijs if we talk about what is wanted and NEEDED a psy NEEDS full +12 to be very self sufficient while a archer can do fine with just gems therefore even if a psy can caught more havoc for a group of ppl vs a archer single target it still doesn't change that archer can be fine with +11 deity (assuming you tisha +11 for free like a few ppl) vs using a full +11 psy archer has enough utility skillwise to survive most classes, while psy depends directly on SF which you need lots of money

I think it's a matter of perception.

In the TW guilds I've been in a +10 archer is nowhere near effective at all in terms of killing. The pressure comes from the fact that they're purging folks and barrage manages to catch the squishies around the person it is being dropped on.

A +10 archer might be awesome against weaker geared players - but that holds true for everyone.

blazerboy

@angellicdeity agreed, but where we were gettin at is regarding this would be which class of the two in each individual opinion is more expensive to be suitable for competitive pvp. Not overall damage

Unknown

This content has been removed.

magiceffect

I love how people throw numbers around showing what psy's can do. 100k base mag attk is ridiculously hard to come by. You'd need a purrfect starchart, 2nd rb NP (easy peasy), terrific engraves. MAYBE 2 or 3 psy's in all servers will get there.

I'm near top end and my base mag attk is around 65k. If I had put the same amount of ... let's call that effort, into any other class it would have shined more.

He who bites and runs away lives to bite another day. What good is damage or spike damage for that matter when you do not actually live to consistently deliver it? Without decent escapes or control skills, psy need to rely on monstruous stats or immense help to stay alive.

Psy NEED some escapes or more deterministic control, BEFORE we even go into comparisons with archers or other classes.
It still is a wonderful class to play, but with how things are right now, its more and more difficult to shine unless you get to that 100k base damage people blabber abt.

blazerboy

@magiceffect personally I would agree if Soul of Silence didn't proc at its rate at 100

Unknown

This content has been removed.

keihan007#7641

aradya6793 wrote: »

magiceffect wrote: »

I love how people throw numbers around showing what psy's can do. 100k base mag attk is ridiculously hard to come by. You'd need a purrfect starchart, 2nd rb NP (easy peasy), terrific engraves. MAYBE 2 or 3 psy's in all servers will get there.

I'm near top end and my base mag attk is around 65k. If I had put the same amount of ... let's call that effort, into any other class it would have shined more.

He who bites and runs away lives to bite another day. What good is damage or spike damage for that matter when you do not actually live to consistently deliver it? Without decent escapes or control skills, psy need to rely on monstruous stats or immense help to stay alive.

Psy NEED some escapes or more deterministic control, BEFORE we even go into comparisons with archers or other classes.
It still is a wonderful class to play, but with how things are right now, its more and more difficult to shine unless you get to that 100k base damage people blabber abt.

you are having the base damage of an endgame archer @ non-np stage.
you either not up to date or you are missing key gears\refinements\engraves\nuemas\bad battle+destro cards\bad chart

a non NP psy can easily reach the 80 even the 90ks thats what you should aim for without portal​​

Out of curiosity, I will turn my archer into psy and see how easily one gets 80k magical attack range.

Base: http://mypers.pw/10/#482695 - 65,1k-72,0k.

Fully buffed: http://mypers.pw/10/#482696 - 71,9k-79,5k

Fully buffed with aptitude 20 chart: http://mypers.pw/10/#482699 - 78,9k-86,5k

So I guess it depends on what terms terms we are talking in. 80k high end is doable buffed with 15 aptitude chart, which is imo more realistic aptitude level than 20. But even at 20 aptitude you are not gonna break 90k high end, unless you get absolutely absurd star chart. Meaning not only double fate star magical attack but landing those on extremely high fate stars.

angellicdeity

magiceffect wrote: »

I love how people throw numbers around showing what psy's can do. 100k base mag attk is ridiculously hard to come by. You'd need a purrfect starchart, 2nd rb NP (easy peasy), terrific engraves. MAYBE 2 or 3 psy's in all servers will get there.

I'm near top end and my base mag attk is around 65k. If I had put the same amount of ... let's call that effort, into any other class it would have shined more.

He who bites and runs away lives to bite another day. What good is damage or spike damage for that matter when you do not actually live to consistently deliver it? Without decent escapes or control skills, psy need to rely on monstruous stats or immense help to stay alive.

Psy NEED some escapes or more deterministic control, BEFORE we even go into comparisons with archers or other classes.
It still is a wonderful class to play, but with how things are right now, its more and more difficult to shine unless you get to that 100k base damage people blabber abt.

Psy has soul of silence. Despite how much people claim its not effective - it is absolutely beyond broken at +12. Soul of silence forces people to eat pots, or use valuable genie energy to immunize themselves from the nearly guaranteed seal. Assassins are about the only class with a natural counter using Tidal protection. At present a Psy is just flat out superior to an archer with this regard. Soul of Silence means that even the most OP players need assistance to deal finishing blows as they'll be silenced before they can land that final hit. Archer has no such ability and can be closed out using a single class if need-be.

If the effectiveness of soul of silence was capped at +8-+10 refined levels I'd agree with you. But since it isn't - Soul of Silence is far too effective to give you yet-another-defensive ability.

jsxshadow

angellicdeity wrote: »

magiceffect wrote: »

I love how people throw numbers around showing what psy's can do. 100k base mag attk is ridiculously hard to come by. You'd need a purrfect starchart, 2nd rb NP (easy peasy), terrific engraves. MAYBE 2 or 3 psy's in all servers will get there.

I'm near top end and my base mag attk is around 65k. If I had put the same amount of ... let's call that effort, into any other class it would have shined more.

He who bites and runs away lives to bite another day. What good is damage or spike damage for that matter when you do not actually live to consistently deliver it? Without decent escapes or control skills, psy need to rely on monstruous stats or immense help to stay alive.

Psy NEED some escapes or more deterministic control, BEFORE we even go into comparisons with archers or other classes.
It still is a wonderful class to play, but with how things are right now, its more and more difficult to shine unless you get to that 100k base damage people blabber abt.

Psy has soul of silence. Despite how much people claim its not effective - it is absolutely beyond broken at +12. Soul of silence forces people to eat pots, or use valuable genie energy to immunize themselves from the nearly guaranteed seal. Assassins are about the only class with a natural counter using Tidal protection. At present a Psy is just flat out superior to an archer with this regard. Soul of Silence means that even the most OP players need assistance to deal finishing blows as they'll be silenced before they can land that final hit. Archer has no such ability and can be closed out using a single class if need-be.

If the effectiveness of soul of silence was capped at +8-+10 refined levels I'd agree with you. But since it isn't - Soul of Silence is far too effective to give you yet-another-defensive ability.

I have to agree with this. the amount of silences I get by just aoeing into a bunch of people in mass just because there is a single psy in there is ultra-annoying and is extremely effective on its own. SoS is, after tidal, the strongest buff in the game by far (in mass pvp its even stronger than tidal imho).

Just the fact that, even if you can kill the psy alone, you nearly always have to use will surge or Apo or a skill to be able to kill the psy without interruption. That is not required for any other class in the game. If you have the damage and if you have the CC you can kill any class 100% cept for psys which can **** you up with chance alone. Wasting genie or apo just to kill one target can turn out to be fatal in some situations.

Psys are fine imho. They just suck in general. Just as sins. The basic skillset is ok but I just hate anything that relies solely on luck, yes even my barb and archer (altho its not as bad as with sins and psys, however sins are totally different story).

In mass...even if a psy is lower geared and would die oneshot from an AOE...if SoS procs then it can lead to other people staying alive or myself getting killed aka job done. Purely based on chance. GG?

dregenfox

I think PWI balances all classes eventually - it just takes them forever and not all changes are immediately noticeable. Psys were at one point considered OP but a lot of game-changes have nerfed them indirectly, and seekers/archers who were once considered trash-tier are now actually decent in the right hands.

Mystics were also a horrible class starting out, with unusable plants and pets who summoned with 0 mana.

None of this actually explains why PWI ignores all logic and keeps buffing sins, though...

aradya6793 wrote: »

magiceffect wrote: »

I love how people throw numbers around showing what psy's can do. 100k base mag attk is ridiculously hard to come by. You'd need a purrfect starchart, 2nd rb NP (easy peasy), terrific engraves. MAYBE 2 or 3 psy's in all servers will get there.

I'm near top end and my base mag attk is around 65k. If I had put the same amount of ... let's call that effort, into any other class it would have shined more.

He who bites and runs away lives to bite another day. What good is damage or spike damage for that matter when you do not actually live to consistently deliver it? Without decent escapes or control skills, psy need to rely on monstruous stats or immense help to stay alive.

Psy NEED some escapes or more deterministic control, BEFORE we even go into comparisons with archers or other classes.
It still is a wonderful class to play, but with how things are right now, its more and more difficult to shine unless you get to that 100k base damage people blabber abt.

you are having the base damage of an endgame archer @ non-np stage.
you either not up to date or you are missing key gears\refinements\engraves\nuemas\bad battle+destro cards\bad chart

a non NP psy can easily reach the 80 even the 90ks thats what you should aim for without portal​​

How are you reaching 80k "easily"? Are you talking about base damage or with multiple buffs/self-buffs and boosts? Our max-endgamed, max-offense RB NP psy on our server has ~85k m. attack base.

Honestly if you put 100k magic attack on a wizard instead of a psy, he's going to be hitting blade tempests for 40k+ on buffed targets...don't even want to think about damage when spark-debuffed and undined.

mooglemonger

So many choices, lots of customization, I can hardly wait!

Unknown

This content has been removed.

dregenfox

aradya6793 wrote: »

dregenfox wrote: »

I think PWI balances all classes eventually - it just takes them forever and not all changes are immediately noticeable. Psys were at one point considered OP but a lot of game-changes have nerfed them indirectly, and seekers/archers who were once considered trash-tier are now actually decent in the right hands.

Mystics were also a horrible class starting out, with unusable plants and pets who summoned with 0 mana.

None of this actually explains why PWI ignores all logic and keeps buffing sins, though...

aradya6793 wrote: »

magiceffect wrote: »

I love how people throw numbers around showing what psy's can do. 100k base mag attk is ridiculously hard to come by. You'd need a purrfect starchart, 2nd rb NP (easy peasy), terrific engraves. MAYBE 2 or 3 psy's in all servers will get there.

I'm near top end and my base mag attk is around 65k. If I had put the same amount of ... let's call that effort, into any other class it would have shined more.

He who bites and runs away lives to bite another day. What good is damage or spike damage for that matter when you do not actually live to consistently deliver it? Without decent escapes or control skills, psy need to rely on monstruous stats or immense help to stay alive.

Psy NEED some escapes or more deterministic control, BEFORE we even go into comparisons with archers or other classes.
It still is a wonderful class to play, but with how things are right now, its more and more difficult to shine unless you get to that 100k base damage people blabber abt.

you are having the base damage of an endgame archer @ non-np stage.
you either not up to date or you are missing key gears\refinements\engraves\nuemas\bad battle+destro cards\bad chart

a non NP psy can easily reach the 80 even the 90ks thats what you should aim for without portal

How are you reaching 80k "easily"? Are you talking about base damage or with multiple buffs/self-buffs and boosts? Our max-endgamed, max-offense RB NP psy on our server has ~85k m. attack base.

Honestly if you put 100k magic attack on a wizard instead of a psy, he's going to be hitting blade tempests for 40k+ on buffed targets...don't even want to think about damage when spark-debuffed and undined.

http://mypers.pw/10/#482804

your rb np psy of your server is doing something wrong

we have 2 np psys on our server and they both touch 100k base around 230k with 3spark and ult​​

Why does star chart have 1600 magic attack? 2x 20 apt should be 1300. Also doesn't make sense to reroll NW neck to get 3x magic adds. He's also buffed w/ mag attack pot. If that psy spent a crapton of gold to get absolutely perfect add-ons he still doesn't hit 80k, though it's really close.

I think our NP psy opted for 2x magic pen and only has 1x magic attack add, which is probably why he has around 85k.

asterelle

dregenfox wrote: »

Why does star chart have 1600 magic attack? 2x 20 apt should be 1300.

You can get 1600 if you have them both on fate stars near 10. It's actually more doable than you'd think due to very biased rerolling with spira 4.​​