Great Weapon Fighter No control and no prone skills, compared to other classes.
Damage diminished and it's too hard to land strikes or skills on other players in PVP.
Even experienced GWF are nothing vs HR, and after Intimidation fix damage is lost again.
GWF 20k+ < HR 18k+ - in PVP melee combat
GWF 20k+ < CW 18k+ - in PVP combat
Suggestion
Give GWF back at least one prone effect to control target.
Give GWF more damage in single strike vs ranged.
Instigator tree could use some regen hp passive skills for PVP or control and prone resistance.
[Combat (Self)] Your Plague Fire Weapon deals 47 (65) Fire Damage to PapaBigN LT 5.
[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Storm Spell deals 5880 (9786) Lightning Damage to PapaBigN LT 5.
[Combat (Self)] PapaBigN LT 5 deals 12080 (11725) Physical Damage to you with Ferocious Reaction.
[Combat (Self)] Your Health Steal gives 51 (97) Hit Points to you.
[Combat (Self)] PapaBigN LT 5 deals 12080 (11725) Physical Damage to you with Ferocious Reaction.
[Combat (Self)] Your Health Steal gives 81 (153) Hit Points to you.
[Combat (Self)] PapaBigN LT 5 deals 12080 (11725) Physical Damage to you with Ferocious Reaction.
[Combat (Self)] Your Health Steal gives 1 (2) Hit Points to you.
[Combat (Self)] PapaBigN LT 5 deals 12080 (11725) Physical Damage to you with Ferocious Reaction.
[Combat (Self)] Your Health Steal gives 1 (1) Hit Points to you.
That is instant 48k damage from a passive skill. GG
PapaBigN is a 23k GWF, has 57-60k HP and ferocious reaction bonus on off-hand artifact at legendary on preview. So ferocious reaction is quite boosted on him. Also, it's a passive with 3 minutes cooldown.
Not like it's ok, i hate passive damage. But ask yourself why GWF is relying on intimidation and cheesy passive damage.
Answer: cause it's hands down the class which has the harder time landing their hits, falls behind in damage compared to ranged counterparts (the tankyness is to compensate the fact that the enemy is ranged and can easily land damage before the GWF gets in melee range) by far. Sprint compensates the endless zoom of warlocks, the endless teleports from CWs (both classes have feats to get that), permastealth of TRs (barely), marauder escape/ dodges/ ranged of HRs and allows them to get around GF block. Yet, if you compare a DPS spec GWF vs a DPS CW with shield, usually CW deals more damage from range and can still tank some with shield. Warlocks deal far more DPS. Same HRs. And more of all, all these classes can land their DPS with one eye closed while a non-intimidation GWF must flawlessly time and aim its powers.
Instigator new capstone is a good step in the right direction but both instigator and destroyer have harder time landing their encounters, barely compete in DPS in melee range (not ranged) and are not much more survivable than a PvP CW with shield on. Expecially considering almost any other class except GWF can prone and take away a huge chunk of your HP with deflection and DR out of the way.
New instigator needs more tankyness through either determination gain boost or Unstoppable buff to 25-50% DR.
Destroyer needs SW-level damage considering both can sprint-zoom a lot, but SWs are ranged and can prone.
Sentinel needs more tankyness to face the monster-level DPS coming from SWs/ HRs/CWs and some proactive way to dish-out some DPS, more or less like a GF with less tankyness/ survivability (no block, less HP) but a bit more DPS.
PapaBigN is a 23k GWF, has 57-60k HP and ferocious reaction bonus on off-hand artifact at legendary on preview. So ferocious reaction is quite boosted on him. Also, it's a passive with 3 minutes cooldown.
Not like it's ok, i hate passive damage. But ask yourself why GWF is relying on intimidation and cheesy passive damage.
Answer: cause it's hands down the class which has the harder time landing their hits, falls behind in damage compared to ranged counterparts (the tankyness is to compensate the fact that the enemy is ranged and can easily land damage before the GWF gets in melee range) by far. Sprint compensates the endless zoom of warlocks, the endless teleports from CWs (both classes have feats to get that), permastealth of TRs (barely), marauder escape/ dodges/ ranged of HRs and allows them to get around GF block. Yet, if you compare a DPS spec GWF vs a DPS CW with shield, usually CW deals more damage from range and can still tank some with shield. Warlocks deal far more DPS. Same HRs. And more of all, all these classes can land their DPS with one eye closed while a non-intimidation GWF must flawlessly time and aim its powers.
Instigator new capstone is a good step in the right direction but both instigator and destroyer have harder time landing their encounters, barely compete in DPS in melee range (not ranged) and are not much more survivable than a PvP CW with shield on. Expecially considering almost any other class except GWF can prone and take away a huge chunk of your HP with deflection and DR out of the way.
New instigator needs more tankyness through either determination gain boost or Unstoppable buff to 25-50% DR.
Destroyer needs SW-level damage considering both can sprint-zoom a lot, but SWs are ranged and can prone.
Sentinel needs more tankyness to face the monster-level DPS coming from SWs/ HRs/CWs and some proactive way to dish-out some DPS, more or less like a GF with less tankyness/ survivability (no block, less HP) but a bit more DPS.
Sadly all this is true ..
I think alot of people still suffers from post modules gwfs and are still tired of the OPness that gwfs had back in module 2 and 3.
But the development in gears and classes has not only erased the advantages but left the gwf class behind.
It is no longer possible just due to superior game play to keep up with other classes and to even compeat the gwf class need 2-3k more gs then other classes.
I have a dc sw hr and gwf and hands down the gwf needs so much better gear then the other classes to performe its redicules and this is one of my major consern.
I been running some LOL epic dungeons lately whith sentinel build gwf 19k full epic sword and i am not even close to the dps of cws 15-16k and the sw leave me in the dust and so does the archer ranger.
I know that hr sw and cw can exploit the red glyphs but the imbalance is painfully obvious.
Nobody wants the OPness that gwf once held back but i can tell you non gwf will want to get back to the swamp we where in before in module 1 either and thats where we are headed right now imho....
PapaBigN is a 23k GWF, has 57-60k HP and ferocious reaction bonus on off-hand artifact at legendary on preview. So ferocious reaction is quite boosted on him. Also, it's a passive with 3 minutes cooldown.
It's a fair BiS vs BiS fight. It's not like some scrub 15K newbie CW fought the monster GWF.
Yet the GWF has a way to kill the opponent by just derping, while the CW has to kite endlessly and dodge flawlessly to not get 2-shot by the other monster proc, Intimidation.
Skillz
Feedback:
Make Storm Spell proc for 15K as well. Assailant proc for 25K. CWs need to be able to keep up, and since you seem to have toned down all their procs and boosted other class procs instead, how about making all procs tick the same, so the fights are fair.
Feedback HR: Firstly I will state that the Swiftness of the Fox change does wonders towards improving the fluidity of stance changing and I applaud this change. That said, there is still much that should be considered for change in order to bring the Trapper path up to where it should be.
The HR was my favorite class, hands down when it came out. I loved the potential and versatility of the stance changing idea and the synergy that could occur between the powers of both stances. It required skill and practice to master the blade and bow style and it suited me well. Then, inevitably through the course of time more and more changes were made until the rework happened and effectively destroyed the Blade and Bow style of play which was originally how it was meant to be played. All solely to cater to those who couldn't grasp it's intricacies or wanted to be a complete character in a singular stance. Although I am all for everyone having their fun, I am a bit dismayed that it came at the expense of the true potential of the class.
Now it seems is the opportunity to right the wrongs and improve the Blade and Bow HR play style and with a few suggestions it can easily be done.
Constricting Arrow; Trapper needs it's AoE and target cap increased on this power for two reasons. Firstly, it will improve control which subsequently improves survivability. You're not giving us the high deflection, life stealing madness of the cheese melee HR and that's fine but we should be able to survive by other means. Extra control potential is such a means.
The second reason is for a higher damage output, which the Trapper falls behind on because they turned them so control centric. More targets hit means more roots which means better damage output. For the life of me, I can't understand why the damage was given to the Archery tree, and the control to the hybrid tree... that is entirely backwards in my opinion. Archery has no defense beyond massive single target damage, they should have had less damage and more control so that they could easier maintain ranged combat whereas the hybrid who is stance changing to maximize effectiveness should have been the master of bursting an enemy down through fluid stance change and encounter spamming. But I digress. On the opposite side, Steel Breeze needs a damage boost.
Another change that is desperately needed is to Aspect of the Serpent. Keep in mind that the Trapper to be most effective will at some point go into melee combat as well but will have reduced effectiveness in doing so. I look at Aspect of the Serpent as the epitome feature of the hybrid style and compare it to some of the other features and it is simply not even worth investing in. Aspect should be changed to be a 6 stack maximum, 6 second refreshable duration damage boost. Each rank grants 3% damage per stack. How it should work is that when an encounter power is used it activates a single stack of the feature for that stance up to a maximum of three stacks which grant a 9% damage to all attacks. changing stance and using the remaining three encounters will grant the remaining 3 stacks at an additional 9% damage boost to all attacks for a total of 18% which is equal to other damage boosting features from other classes albeit at a much more intensive activation phase. So in practice, the Trapper will need to go cycle through all encounters to achieve maximum bonus thus incentive and synergy occurs for stance changing. at maximum stacks, the duration lasts 6 seconds for each column of stacks but can be refreshed by using an encounter in that stance again (a ranged power refreshes the ranged column, a melee power refreshes the melee column). It promotes stance changing, becomes sustainable, and grants a large enough boost to be worth investing in for the hybrid style like this.
Furthermore this would also improve the appeal of the Serpent's Bite Trapper feature by essentially doubling it's potential since stacking would be doubled. This would bring Trapper damage potential in line with where it should be at the peak of the class when used as the class was meant to be.
The heroic feat Agile Combatant needs to have it's damage bonus doubled to 2/4/6% for 5 seconds after stance change.
Thorned Roots and Ancient Roots... The two features should become completely independent of one another so as to be able to sustain burst and control without one interfering with the other. Change Thorned roots to apply an immediate pierce damage on the controlled target upon control encounter usage rather than a time based one on control duration. This way you can enjoy the control duration of Ancient Roots without sacrificing the burst capability that Thorned roots can provide. This split would also have the subsequent effect of improving damage and survivability of the Trapper in a shorter time frame.
Rain of Arrows; will you please finally increase the radius of this power? Also a damage increase on Rain of Swords would be nice as well.
Marauder's Escape should be an escape. Give it CC immunity/breaking
This is all I can think of at the moment, I'm sure I'll remember more. I would like very much to play an effective ranger the way it was meant to be played, but the changes you are proposing so far won't be enough for it to compete with and exceed the other two half-class, half assed approach.
hunter ranger is a striker / controller character.
i highly agree with this, he needs to be tonned down on his surviability, like Control Wizard is atm .
and control and do dps as its already do.
but high surviability it's not a DEFENDER.
it would be great to have
1 hr paragon for striker role
1 hr paragon for controller role
and 1 hr paragon that has both , but less effective.
same with gwf
1 gwf paragon for strike role
1 gwf paragon for defender role
1 gwf paragon that has both, but less effective.
For HR, they also need to nerf Marauder Rush's distance: 83' is so much distance for a gap closer. It should be toned down into 30'
CW as far as i remember have longest range in game. HR with aspect of falcon in still range for CWS spells. Making gap closer as 30 feet is same as making it useless. We don't have GWF/SW immunity Run. Nor shield. Nor stealth. 2nd note -30 feet it less then aura effect for new armor sets - 50 feet. CW dodge is close to 30 feet. So all what you ask is to make CWs do 2 rotations of encounters even before HR is able to engage.And CW won't even have to move his fat ***) 100% CW vr HR buff. Never should be done. Id advices CW root HRs even before we are at 83 feet range. All good CWs do it so.
hunter ranger is a striker / controller character.
i highly agree with this, he needs to be tonned down on his surviability, like Control Wizard is atm .
and control and do dps as its already do.
but high surviability it's not a DEFENDER.
it would be great to have
1 hr paragon for striker role
1 hr paragon for controller role
and 1 hr paragon that has both , but less effective.
same with gwf
1 gwf paragon for strike role
1 gwf paragon for defender role
1 gwf paragon that has both, but less effective.
it's easy ...
It must have start with point that HR at mod 2/3 had some control abilities. Now we don't pretty much. Main Control was Constructive plus disruptive with Stromstep actions. For melee it was less effective prone version - Boar's charge. Problem with boars is accually its placement and week effect in comparasion to old constructive. This was allowing for Archers to exist and be good.
3rd path was buffer - one that was focusing on buffs/debuffs/heals. Now is completly gone from pciture.
Also 2nd strange change was to limit HR to melee or to only Archer. No matter how much I favor melee still making it so limited is same as destory of tab for HR.
to compensate that they made 3rd - control focused- Trapper. Now this 3rd can do nothing really. CW and even DC have better controls then trapper - this matters to pve. And its damage is weakest amoung all. No survivability and no burst damage. And in pvp all its control don't work - eg rooted CWs still does all his speals and trapper can not kill him. GWF dont even bother with trappers - just kill in half rotation.
In any way HR still need 3 pathes - melee archer and trapper/buffer. If you look from current state. Give back old constructive. Make deflection and deflection severity as main defense mechanism to melee. And it will be better in whole picture now.
Even thought I do respect your ideas on what HR is. It does not mean that HR were not what you describe. HR were havily nerfed every module. Most of skills is accually nerf like 2 -5 times and now are pretty useless.
Intimidation is 1 HAMSTER up mechanic but lets be honest they nerfed gwf to the point where w.o intimidation gwf wouldnt stand a chance in pvp.
Yes, it needs to be replaced with something fun and viable. This is true for other classes too, it's not like just the GWF depends on huge/many procs.
The procs/DoTs mentality is destroying the game and they just augment it, while making things such as Shard and FLS/Takedown/IBS combos irrelevant and obsolete.
So the TR kites almost flawlessly for 2 mins, then by the virtue of derping and RNG together, the GWF hits 45700 in 1 second.
Can we PLEASE remove these incredibly ******ed mechanics from the game?!?
PS1: the permadaze thing will cause immense floods of QQ and tears shall flood the forums.
PS2: nice job kweassa, next time use elixirs too.
Because permadodge is such a great skill, huh. I can already see that I'll have to drop daring shout for something else when fighting TRs in mod 5. Impossible to land it when TR now has such a cheap and long dodge. Not to mention their already OP deflect severity that pretty much neglects stun completely.
Because permadodge is such a great skill, huh. I can already see that I'll have to drop daring shout for something else when fighting TRs in mod 5. Impossible to land it when TR now has such a cheap and long dodge. Not to mention their already OP deflect severity that pretty much neglects stun completely.
So that 44k is due to high deflect severity?
Thanks god!
Perma dodge is a fixed bug
So the TR kites almost flawlessly for 2 mins, then by the virtue of derping and RNG together, the GWF hits 45700 in 1 second.
Can we PLEASE remove these incredibly ******ed mechanics from the game?!?
PS1: the permadaze thing will cause immense floods of QQ and tears shall flood the forums.
PS2: nice job kweassa, next time use elixirs too.
As much as i don't like intimidation mechanic...but..."kite flawlessly"...
Permastealth and throwing knives
rush in, double roll going stealth then jump at 30'+ from GWF in open ground
GWF stuns work for less than 1 seconds (been like that for the whole mod4, on both TRs and HRs. A bug or whatever, these guys can get out of our puny stuns almost instantly, which means GWF have pretty much no CC against a TR)
Kite with this stuff is easy as a pie compared to what the GWF must do to catch the TR. During stealth the GWF should be superman to find you, in open ground (in domination it's the same since TRs get out of node endlessly). After you rush in, all you need to do is go back to stealth and double roll. First roll the GWF can see where you roll. Second roll can be literally in any direction and can't be seen, and is almost instant. Then the TR is in safe zone again. Throw knives from safety, rush in, roll away into stealth (immunity), roll again (immunity).
Now take lag into account, the TR is out of GWF damage 99% of the time and can hit the enemy whenever he want.
Now let's see what a destroyer or instigator should do in the same situation. The TR hits them, then roll away. You must predict where he will roll, point FLS and hit it exactly between the first and second dodge. One millisecond too early or too late, you hit the roll immunity. Even hitting perfectly, the stun would be 0.5s, which means the TR would be long gone before you get to the point where he is supposed to be. And then the TR is in permastealth again and see you next time. Repeat a few times except for the fact TRs now deal more damage and Destroyers and Instigators have low survivability. Destroyer could go permasprint but then he should use takedown as opening. And catching a perma TR with just takedown requires like 99% skills, 1% rest. Not being permasprint, you can try to guess (again, requires more skill than being permastealth and hitting whenever you please or double roll and go into permastelath staying at 30'+ from the enemy) when the TR will try to hit you and sprint to mitigate the damage.
Intimidation can go to hell, when glyphs go to hell, permastealth go to hell, piercing blade go to hell, and all prones are removed from all classes, and stuns actually stun for a decent amount of time and TRs/HRs are not able to slip away after 0.5s of stun.
And i do not use intimidation build but a destroyer PvP spec.
So that 44k is due to high deflect severity?
Thanks god!
Perma dodge is a fixed bug
Damage can go when HRs/ TRs get stunned for a decent amount of time that can be actually called CC instead of 0,5s stunn and then free to roll away before you get hit again. It's BS, TRs know it, HRs know it, but it's fine cause it's useful to you when a GWF cannot see you and catch you cause the puny stuns devs gave in place of prones are useless against you.
But it's the same old story: if it's broken but helps me, it can stay (broken stun on TRs/ HRs), but if it hurts me (intimidation HAMSTER) then it must go, NOW!
I don't even use intimidation on my GWF but i can see that much. Intimidation now is the only thing that makes GWF competitive, which is just sad, cause it's as crappy as glyphs, passive DPS exc...
And what most players call "skills" is just set a rotation, and try not to play like a complete ******, then your toon auto aims, dish out damage and do all by himself. Combat HR is like that. Only thing you need to avoid is a high DPS CW controlling you. But out of that, it's just rushing in from 80 feet, prone, press button for DPS (fox shift), rush out (marauder escape), hit from range or go stealth with forest ghost, dodge, self heal, repeat.
Don't touch Marauders range. HR needs tools to get in range or escape as it does not have CC breaks. Even so, HR is most of the time a sitting duck when caught in CCs.
With its nerfed survivability, people should have an easier time killing them.
Are you saying intimidation is fine because TRs and HRs are too OP?
Because while intimidation should not work that way, you do have a point.
How about they leave intimidation, keep the TRs, HRs and DCs being OP but just buff CW and GF?
Talking for next mod of course^
Nope, i don't like it. I don't like cheesy gameplay. My Feedback would be like this:
- Destroyer: boost DPS in PvP to make it a melee version of a warlock. Right now, it's a weaker version of a warlock (same mobility roughly, bit more tanky but it's melee, much lower DPS at same gear level, and no prones)
- Instigator: add increased determination gain from feat for more survivability if as devs said, it must be a tank-DPS hybrid. Right now, DPS are there, but it's less survivable than a destroyer sprinter.
- Sentinel: Intimidation should not crit. Get it back to 50% of power, Affected only by DR and ArP, but can't crit. No target cap.
- TR: stealth must have limitations. After the TR hits the target, there must be a gap of say 10 seconds, during which the TR must survive through tricks and dodges. Increase number of available dodges by 1. If needed, can have more deflect chance.
Stealth increase should be applied only to tank builds with lower damage (something like current TR, with low damage but high stealth ability/ survivability.
TRs should be in stealth when out of combat, but as they attack, their ability to get away freely to hide somewhere must be reduced. As seen in the video, the TR is able to rush in, attack, double roll into stealth and be safe. Proof of it not being balanced is also that the GWF seen, who is a veteran fully geared to the max, is not able to catch it 99% of the time unless he uses intimidation AoE with perfect timing. Which is dumb. Truly dumb. Cause it means that any other GWF build would have 1% chance to catch the guy while being constantly under attack.
- HRs will probably be fine once their survivability/ self-healing is lowered (will be high mobility, high damage, medium-low survivability if caught). That should be the aim.
- CWs: bring back damage to shard, take it away from passive stuff
- Delete glyphs or completely rework them to something acceptable.
- Deflect should not affect CC duration. CC must be dodgeable as it is, and there can be FEW ways to reduce its duration (add CC resist stat, oghma, immunities), but it's not possible that high deflect classes/ builds can get away from CC for free in half a second 99% of the times.
First at all, this is a FEEDBACK thread, not a DISCUSSION one. After this being said, i will answer you:
"Fox shift" is really useful to get into that range vs CW-class in both forms (ranged and melee). But you are talking about the first 1/2 mins ... and without cleric's artifact or "Forest Ghost" sloted as daily... right? so, you have your solution right here. Also, you can use HR tools (Grasp, roots, etc) to get near into the CW range, not only base your rotation and gameplay in "fox", "boar" and "marauder" (in example, my actual rotation is "Marauder"
This is enough. This is feedback and your feedback is just wrong since you know nothing on how HR function. Fox shift range is a buff. Mara ranged goes back not forward. Any of the roots don't work for HRs unless you are trapper. It worked before in mod 3 when constructive was not nerfed to useless. And HR are strikers. Hit and Run is what we are supposed to do. Yet still if you talk about balance don't skip the part that CW have biggest range and mobility with LS now are only HR defense. So if CW can not really root HR a far as they are doing really - then this is a chance for HR . not nerf something that you can not handle. I saw plenty of good CW that can freeze, push and deal with geared HR. So L2P.
@Devs: Your realize there are no CWs posting here anymore, right? It's only GWFs and HRs asking for CW buffs (without really knowing what would be good for them in today's situation), while all the real CWs have quit the game after seeing this nonsense without any response to concerns or feedback.
Reverse everything on the CW that you have done for Module 5 and then start buffing so they have a slight chance against anything! CWs are completely PVP-unviable at the moment. And even in the state on the Live Shard they would have no chance against the current HR, GWF, TR, GF, or even DC builds. I haven't seen much SW testing, because all PVPers run either HR or GWF or quit.
We are making some fairly large changes to Control Wizard single target powers to improve their PVP presence and improving both of their Presence class features to make them more competitive choices with the Paragon features.
Arcane Presence: Now also passively increases your recharge speed by 5/10/15%.
Chilling Presence: Damage bonus increased to 2% per stack (per rank) and is doubled on Frozen targets.
Chill Strike: This power now activates 40% faster.
Entangling Force: This power now activates 40% faster.
Repel: This power now activates 40% faster.
Ray of Enfeeblement: This power now activates 40% faster.
Icy Rays: Targets can now be marked while moving.
Icy Rays: The follow up portion of this power now activates 40% faster.
Sudden Storm: This power now activates 40% faster.
Fanning the Flames: This power now activates 40% faster.
This should reduce how easily most powers are dodged against a Wizard, making them a dangerous ranged threat with more power options to control or damage foes.
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
We are making some fairly large changes to Control Wizard single target powers to improve their PVP presence and improving both of their Presence class features to make them more competitive choices with the Paragon features.
Arcane Presence: Now also passively increases your recharge speed by 5/10/15%.
Chilling Presence: Damage bonus increased to 2% per stack (per rank) and is doubled on Frozen targets.
Chill Strike: This power now activates 40% faster.
Entangling Force: This power now activates 40% faster.
Repel: This power now activates 40% faster.
Ray of Enfeeblement: This power now activates 40% faster.
Icy Rays: Targets can now be marked while moving.
Icy Rays: The follow up portion of this power now activates 40% faster.
Sudden Storm: This power now activates 40% faster.
Fanning the Flames: This power now activates 40% faster.
This should reduce how easily most powers are dodged against a Wizard, making them a dangerous ranged threat with more power options to control or damage foes.
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
so no love to GWF?
guess we stuck with intimidation or 423423423423 12 3123 312 123 stacks destroyer to deal lower dmg anyway have almost 0 surv (thx to unreasonable unsto DR /gain nerf) no CC at all or wait we have that frontline surge less than 2k base dmg and 18 seconds cd!>yays<
Good improvements on the CW. Doesn't buff the already overpowered PVE CWs that much but helps PVP CWs especially with the casting time on Entangling Force and Chill Strike.
This is a great step into making CWs legit glass-cannons in PVP instead of just whipping boys.
so no love to GWF?
guess we stuck with intimidation or 423423423423 12 3123 312 123 stacks destroyer to deal lower dmg anyway have almost 0 surv (thx to unreasonable unsto DR /gain nerf) no CC at all or wait we have that frontline surge less than 2k base dmg and 18 seconds cd!>yays<
CW has less survivability than GWF. Also, intimidation.....
Comments
Great Weapon Fighter
No control and no prone skills, compared to other classes.
Damage diminished and it's too hard to land strikes or skills on other players in PVP.
Even experienced GWF are nothing vs HR, and after Intimidation fix damage is lost again.
GWF 20k+ < HR 18k+ - in PVP melee combat
GWF 20k+ < CW 18k+ - in PVP combat
Suggestion
Give GWF back at least one prone effect to control target.
Give GWF more damage in single strike vs ranged.
Instigator tree could use some regen hp passive skills for PVP or control and prone resistance.
PapaBigN is a 23k GWF, has 57-60k HP and ferocious reaction bonus on off-hand artifact at legendary on preview. So ferocious reaction is quite boosted on him. Also, it's a passive with 3 minutes cooldown.
Not like it's ok, i hate passive damage. But ask yourself why GWF is relying on intimidation and cheesy passive damage.
Answer: cause it's hands down the class which has the harder time landing their hits, falls behind in damage compared to ranged counterparts (the tankyness is to compensate the fact that the enemy is ranged and can easily land damage before the GWF gets in melee range) by far. Sprint compensates the endless zoom of warlocks, the endless teleports from CWs (both classes have feats to get that), permastealth of TRs (barely), marauder escape/ dodges/ ranged of HRs and allows them to get around GF block. Yet, if you compare a DPS spec GWF vs a DPS CW with shield, usually CW deals more damage from range and can still tank some with shield. Warlocks deal far more DPS. Same HRs. And more of all, all these classes can land their DPS with one eye closed while a non-intimidation GWF must flawlessly time and aim its powers.
Instigator new capstone is a good step in the right direction but both instigator and destroyer have harder time landing their encounters, barely compete in DPS in melee range (not ranged) and are not much more survivable than a PvP CW with shield on. Expecially considering almost any other class except GWF can prone and take away a huge chunk of your HP with deflection and DR out of the way.
New instigator needs more tankyness through either determination gain boost or Unstoppable buff to 25-50% DR.
Destroyer needs SW-level damage considering both can sprint-zoom a lot, but SWs are ranged and can prone.
Sentinel needs more tankyness to face the monster-level DPS coming from SWs/ HRs/CWs and some proactive way to dish-out some DPS, more or less like a GF with less tankyness/ survivability (no block, less HP) but a bit more DPS.
Sadly all this is true
I think alot of people still suffers from post modules gwfs and are still tired of the OPness that gwfs had back in module 2 and 3.
But the development in gears and classes has not only erased the advantages but left the gwf class behind.
It is no longer possible just due to superior game play to keep up with other classes and to even compeat the gwf class need 2-3k more gs then other classes.
I have a dc sw hr and gwf and hands down the gwf needs so much better gear then the other classes to performe its redicules and this is one of my major consern.
I been running some LOL epic dungeons lately whith sentinel build gwf 19k full epic sword and i am not even close to the dps of cws 15-16k and the sw leave me in the dust and so does the archer ranger.
I know that hr sw and cw can exploit the red glyphs but the imbalance is painfully obvious.
Nobody wants the OPness that gwf once held back but i can tell you non gwf will want to get back to the swamp we where in before in module 1 either and thats where we are headed right now imho....
Yet the GWF has a way to kill the opponent by just derping, while the CW has to kite endlessly and dodge flawlessly to not get 2-shot by the other monster proc, Intimidation.
Skillz
Feedback:
Make Storm Spell proc for 15K as well. Assailant proc for 25K. CWs need to be able to keep up, and since you seem to have toned down all their procs and boosted other class procs instead, how about making all procs tick the same, so the fights are fair.
Firstly I will state that the Swiftness of the Fox change does wonders towards improving the fluidity of stance changing and I applaud this change. That said, there is still much that should be considered for change in order to bring the Trapper path up to where it should be.
The HR was my favorite class, hands down when it came out. I loved the potential and versatility of the stance changing idea and the synergy that could occur between the powers of both stances. It required skill and practice to master the blade and bow style and it suited me well. Then, inevitably through the course of time more and more changes were made until the rework happened and effectively destroyed the Blade and Bow style of play which was originally how it was meant to be played. All solely to cater to those who couldn't grasp it's intricacies or wanted to be a complete character in a singular stance. Although I am all for everyone having their fun, I am a bit dismayed that it came at the expense of the true potential of the class.
Now it seems is the opportunity to right the wrongs and improve the Blade and Bow HR play style and with a few suggestions it can easily be done.
Constricting Arrow; Trapper needs it's AoE and target cap increased on this power for two reasons. Firstly, it will improve control which subsequently improves survivability. You're not giving us the high deflection, life stealing madness of the cheese melee HR and that's fine but we should be able to survive by other means. Extra control potential is such a means.
The second reason is for a higher damage output, which the Trapper falls behind on because they turned them so control centric. More targets hit means more roots which means better damage output. For the life of me, I can't understand why the damage was given to the Archery tree, and the control to the hybrid tree... that is entirely backwards in my opinion. Archery has no defense beyond massive single target damage, they should have had less damage and more control so that they could easier maintain ranged combat whereas the hybrid who is stance changing to maximize effectiveness should have been the master of bursting an enemy down through fluid stance change and encounter spamming. But I digress. On the opposite side, Steel Breeze needs a damage boost.
Another change that is desperately needed is to Aspect of the Serpent. Keep in mind that the Trapper to be most effective will at some point go into melee combat as well but will have reduced effectiveness in doing so. I look at Aspect of the Serpent as the epitome feature of the hybrid style and compare it to some of the other features and it is simply not even worth investing in. Aspect should be changed to be a 6 stack maximum, 6 second refreshable duration damage boost. Each rank grants 3% damage per stack. How it should work is that when an encounter power is used it activates a single stack of the feature for that stance up to a maximum of three stacks which grant a 9% damage to all attacks. changing stance and using the remaining three encounters will grant the remaining 3 stacks at an additional 9% damage boost to all attacks for a total of 18% which is equal to other damage boosting features from other classes albeit at a much more intensive activation phase. So in practice, the Trapper will need to go cycle through all encounters to achieve maximum bonus thus incentive and synergy occurs for stance changing. at maximum stacks, the duration lasts 6 seconds for each column of stacks but can be refreshed by using an encounter in that stance again (a ranged power refreshes the ranged column, a melee power refreshes the melee column). It promotes stance changing, becomes sustainable, and grants a large enough boost to be worth investing in for the hybrid style like this.
Furthermore this would also improve the appeal of the Serpent's Bite Trapper feature by essentially doubling it's potential since stacking would be doubled. This would bring Trapper damage potential in line with where it should be at the peak of the class when used as the class was meant to be.
The heroic feat Agile Combatant needs to have it's damage bonus doubled to 2/4/6% for 5 seconds after stance change.
Thorned Roots and Ancient Roots... The two features should become completely independent of one another so as to be able to sustain burst and control without one interfering with the other. Change Thorned roots to apply an immediate pierce damage on the controlled target upon control encounter usage rather than a time based one on control duration. This way you can enjoy the control duration of Ancient Roots without sacrificing the burst capability that Thorned roots can provide. This split would also have the subsequent effect of improving damage and survivability of the Trapper in a shorter time frame.
Rain of Arrows; will you please finally increase the radius of this power? Also a damage increase on Rain of Swords would be nice as well.
Marauder's Escape should be an escape. Give it CC immunity/breaking
This is all I can think of at the moment, I'm sure I'll remember more. I would like very much to play an effective ranger the way it was meant to be played, but the changes you are proposing so far won't be enough for it to compete with and exceed the other two half-class, half assed approach.
Gloom level 60 Control Wizard
Dusk level 60 Trickster Rogue
Dawn level 60 Devoted Cleric
Eclipse level 60 Hunter Ranger
Wrath level 60 Great Weapon Fighter
Jinx level 60 Scourge Warlock
i highly agree with this, he needs to be tonned down on his surviability, like Control Wizard is atm .
and control and do dps as its already do.
but high surviability it's not a DEFENDER.
it would be great to have
1 hr paragon for striker role
1 hr paragon for controller role
and 1 hr paragon that has both , but less effective.
same with gwf
1 gwf paragon for strike role
1 gwf paragon for defender role
1 gwf paragon that has both, but less effective.
it's easy ...
http://youtu.be/-wr9hUm_vYQ
Is the nerfed intimidation supposed to hit still this hard and with that range?
CW as far as i remember have longest range in game. HR with aspect of falcon in still range for CWS spells. Making gap closer as 30 feet is same as making it useless. We don't have GWF/SW immunity Run. Nor shield. Nor stealth. 2nd note -30 feet it less then aura effect for new armor sets - 50 feet. CW dodge is close to 30 feet. So all what you ask is to make CWs do 2 rotations of encounters even before HR is able to engage.And CW won't even have to move his fat ***) 100% CW vr HR buff. Never should be done. Id advices CW root HRs even before we are at 83 feet range. All good CWs do it so.
It must have start with point that HR at mod 2/3 had some control abilities. Now we don't pretty much. Main Control was Constructive plus disruptive with Stromstep actions. For melee it was less effective prone version - Boar's charge. Problem with boars is accually its placement and week effect in comparasion to old constructive. This was allowing for Archers to exist and be good.
3rd path was buffer - one that was focusing on buffs/debuffs/heals. Now is completly gone from pciture.
Also 2nd strange change was to limit HR to melee or to only Archer. No matter how much I favor melee still making it so limited is same as destory of tab for HR.
to compensate that they made 3rd - control focused- Trapper. Now this 3rd can do nothing really. CW and even DC have better controls then trapper - this matters to pve. And its damage is weakest amoung all. No survivability and no burst damage. And in pvp all its control don't work - eg rooted CWs still does all his speals and trapper can not kill him. GWF dont even bother with trappers - just kill in half rotation.
In any way HR still need 3 pathes - melee archer and trapper/buffer. If you look from current state. Give back old constructive. Make deflection and deflection severity as main defense mechanism to melee. And it will be better in whole picture now.
Even thought I do respect your ideas on what HR is. It does not mean that HR were not what you describe. HR were havily nerfed every module. Most of skills is accually nerf like 2 -5 times and now are pretty useless.
after seeing this i really doubt if GWF has a chance to survive in mod 5 w,o intimidation lol.
That's as dumb as it gets.
So the TR kites almost flawlessly for 2 mins, then by the virtue of derping and RNG together, the GWF hits 45700 in 1 second.
Can we PLEASE remove these incredibly ******ed mechanics from the game?!?
PS1: the permadaze thing will cause immense floods of QQ and tears shall flood the forums.
PS2: nice job kweassa, next time use elixirs too.
Intimidation is 1 HAMSTER up mechanic but lets be honest they nerfed gwf to the point where w.o intimidation gwf wouldnt stand a chance in pvp.
Yes, it needs to be replaced with something fun and viable. This is true for other classes too, it's not like just the GWF depends on huge/many procs.
The procs/DoTs mentality is destroying the game and they just augment it, while making things such as Shard and FLS/Takedown/IBS combos irrelevant and obsolete.
Because permadodge is such a great skill, huh. I can already see that I'll have to drop daring shout for something else when fighting TRs in mod 5. Impossible to land it when TR now has such a cheap and long dodge. Not to mention their already OP deflect severity that pretty much neglects stun completely.
So that 44k is due to high deflect severity?
Thanks god!
Perma dodge is a fixed bug
As much as i don't like intimidation mechanic...but..."kite flawlessly"...
Permastealth and throwing knives
rush in, double roll going stealth then jump at 30'+ from GWF in open ground
GWF stuns work for less than 1 seconds (been like that for the whole mod4, on both TRs and HRs. A bug or whatever, these guys can get out of our puny stuns almost instantly, which means GWF have pretty much no CC against a TR)
Kite with this stuff is easy as a pie compared to what the GWF must do to catch the TR. During stealth the GWF should be superman to find you, in open ground (in domination it's the same since TRs get out of node endlessly). After you rush in, all you need to do is go back to stealth and double roll. First roll the GWF can see where you roll. Second roll can be literally in any direction and can't be seen, and is almost instant. Then the TR is in safe zone again. Throw knives from safety, rush in, roll away into stealth (immunity), roll again (immunity).
Now take lag into account, the TR is out of GWF damage 99% of the time and can hit the enemy whenever he want.
Now let's see what a destroyer or instigator should do in the same situation. The TR hits them, then roll away. You must predict where he will roll, point FLS and hit it exactly between the first and second dodge. One millisecond too early or too late, you hit the roll immunity. Even hitting perfectly, the stun would be 0.5s, which means the TR would be long gone before you get to the point where he is supposed to be. And then the TR is in permastealth again and see you next time. Repeat a few times except for the fact TRs now deal more damage and Destroyers and Instigators have low survivability. Destroyer could go permasprint but then he should use takedown as opening. And catching a perma TR with just takedown requires like 99% skills, 1% rest. Not being permasprint, you can try to guess (again, requires more skill than being permastealth and hitting whenever you please or double roll and go into permastelath staying at 30'+ from the enemy) when the TR will try to hit you and sprint to mitigate the damage.
Intimidation can go to hell, when glyphs go to hell, permastealth go to hell, piercing blade go to hell, and all prones are removed from all classes, and stuns actually stun for a decent amount of time and TRs/HRs are not able to slip away after 0.5s of stun.
And i do not use intimidation build but a destroyer PvP spec.
Damage can go when HRs/ TRs get stunned for a decent amount of time that can be actually called CC instead of 0,5s stunn and then free to roll away before you get hit again. It's BS, TRs know it, HRs know it, but it's fine cause it's useful to you when a GWF cannot see you and catch you cause the puny stuns devs gave in place of prones are useless against you.
But it's the same old story: if it's broken but helps me, it can stay (broken stun on TRs/ HRs), but if it hurts me (intimidation HAMSTER) then it must go, NOW!
I don't even use intimidation on my GWF but i can see that much. Intimidation now is the only thing that makes GWF competitive, which is just sad, cause it's as crappy as glyphs, passive DPS exc...
And what most players call "skills" is just set a rotation, and try not to play like a complete ******, then your toon auto aims, dish out damage and do all by himself. Combat HR is like that. Only thing you need to avoid is a high DPS CW controlling you. But out of that, it's just rushing in from 80 feet, prone, press button for DPS (fox shift), rush out (marauder escape), hit from range or go stealth with forest ghost, dodge, self heal, repeat.
Because while intimidation should not work that way, you do have a point.
How about they leave intimidation, keep the TRs, HRs and DCs being OP but just buff CW and GF?
Talking for next mod of course^
you will then tell me where is the "perma" stealth in that video
about stuns: the first lasted o.5s cause he used a cc breaker, the second lasted 0.5s cause he used oghma
Don't touch Marauders range. HR needs tools to get in range or escape as it does not have CC breaks. Even so, HR is most of the time a sitting duck when caught in CCs.
With its nerfed survivability, people should have an easier time killing them.
Nope, i don't like it. I don't like cheesy gameplay. My Feedback would be like this:
- Destroyer: boost DPS in PvP to make it a melee version of a warlock. Right now, it's a weaker version of a warlock (same mobility roughly, bit more tanky but it's melee, much lower DPS at same gear level, and no prones)
- Instigator: add increased determination gain from feat for more survivability if as devs said, it must be a tank-DPS hybrid. Right now, DPS are there, but it's less survivable than a destroyer sprinter.
- Sentinel: Intimidation should not crit. Get it back to 50% of power, Affected only by DR and ArP, but can't crit. No target cap.
- TR: stealth must have limitations. After the TR hits the target, there must be a gap of say 10 seconds, during which the TR must survive through tricks and dodges. Increase number of available dodges by 1. If needed, can have more deflect chance.
Stealth increase should be applied only to tank builds with lower damage (something like current TR, with low damage but high stealth ability/ survivability.
TRs should be in stealth when out of combat, but as they attack, their ability to get away freely to hide somewhere must be reduced. As seen in the video, the TR is able to rush in, attack, double roll into stealth and be safe. Proof of it not being balanced is also that the GWF seen, who is a veteran fully geared to the max, is not able to catch it 99% of the time unless he uses intimidation AoE with perfect timing. Which is dumb. Truly dumb. Cause it means that any other GWF build would have 1% chance to catch the guy while being constantly under attack.
- HRs will probably be fine once their survivability/ self-healing is lowered (will be high mobility, high damage, medium-low survivability if caught). That should be the aim.
- CWs: bring back damage to shard, take it away from passive stuff
- Delete glyphs or completely rework them to something acceptable.
- Deflect should not affect CC duration. CC must be dodgeable as it is, and there can be FEW ways to reduce its duration (add CC resist stat, oghma, immunities), but it's not possible that high deflect classes/ builds can get away from CC for free in half a second 99% of the times.
Reverse everything on the CW that you have done for Module 5 and then start buffing so they have a slight chance against anything! CWs are completely PVP-unviable at the moment. And even in the state on the Live Shard they would have no chance against the current HR, GWF, TR, GF, or even DC builds. I haven't seen much SW testing, because all PVPers run either HR or GWF or quit.
- Brazil PvP Fraternité -
Rank 7
- Arcane Presence: Now also passively increases your recharge speed by 5/10/15%.
- Chilling Presence: Damage bonus increased to 2% per stack (per rank) and is doubled on Frozen targets.
- Chill Strike: This power now activates 40% faster.
- Entangling Force: This power now activates 40% faster.
- Repel: This power now activates 40% faster.
- Ray of Enfeeblement: This power now activates 40% faster.
- Icy Rays: Targets can now be marked while moving.
- Icy Rays: The follow up portion of this power now activates 40% faster.
- Sudden Storm: This power now activates 40% faster.
- Fanning the Flames: This power now activates 40% faster.
This should reduce how easily most powers are dodged against a Wizard, making them a dangerous ranged threat with more power options to control or damage foes.Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
so no love to GWF?
guess we stuck with intimidation or 423423423423 12 3123 312 123 stacks destroyer to deal lower dmg anyway have almost 0 surv (thx to unreasonable unsto DR /gain nerf) no CC at all or wait we have that frontline surge less than 2k base dmg and 18 seconds cd!>yays<
This is a great step into making CWs legit glass-cannons in PVP instead of just whipping boys.
CW has less survivability than GWF. Also, intimidation.....