That is more or less my opinion as well. Initially I was against it, but I think with some minor tweaks to the stat, PVP could become ALOT more fun. Its not 100% balanced in its current form, so making a few small changes I think will help alot! (see my previous post on last page)
I also want to stress that with more game TYPEs/MAPS and a proper matchmaking system COMBINED with these changes, this will REALLY be an awesome addition to the game, and dont forget MORE gear sets!!!
Honestly, for me this is not a PVP MMO, there are much better PVP MMO's around. PVP at this game is just a cherry on the chocolate cake.
Like many people said, better to keep everything simple. The more you add, the harder it will be to adjust, because you will have more and more variables after each change.
This is a Dungeon and Dragons game..at least that is what you claim. I don't see much Dungeon and Dragons in this, only very small glimpses of it. This game looks like some Action-keybinded game, something like action-WoW?!
Make PvP, simple and fun. Add DEADLY traps...like in D&D...traps that instantly kill you. Add changing environments, for exemple: some bridge at the middle of the map that sometimes goes down, and other times it reconnects.
Make the map dynamic...force the players to think about each opportunity..rather then slaughering which is too hard to balance.
Being smart also counts in war, not only being strong and deadly.
This is a great game and has alot of potential, just make it like D&D (not like DDO...which is being killed by Warner Bros of course), I mean real D&D MMO. Neverwinter has ALL tools for it. You just need to want it.
Thanks for reading.
Edit 1: added blue colour;
Edit 2: chosen wrong blue and corrected it
Edit 3: well had to re-paste the reply and choose the colour again, last fix did not work.
From what I have seen I honestly believe as Stox said, that this is doing what the Dev's intended. Tanky classes are very tanky but not unkillable anymore as well as survivability to squishy classes. It also seems previously unused powers/feats are more useful. The base pvp buff works well however not sure about the %. I do believe that might need tweaking but more testing is of course needed to figure out the amount.
GWF: Sentinel are actually killable 1v1 now. Its not a quick kill by any means but a skilled player can over time due to regen debuff eventually wear one down. Before it took a full regen/deflect GF bunker to troll prone one off point without any other attacks to build determination. Even then they couldn't kill one and the tactic was screwed if a foolish teammate ran up and started 2v1 for instant determination and Unstoppable spamming. GWF is still tanky and a great class, just not immortal.
CW: A CW is a lot harder to kill than before. The CC nerf does hurt but the increased DR makes the survivability greater so they can rotate more often. However I do agree that the PVP set has some stat issues. Since more PVP sets are in the work from what I have heard that could be fixed by the time the release is out.
TR: TR's do not hit nearly as hard. However when played right not using the present cookie cutter live builds they are incredibly hard to kill. Almost worse than a GWF or GF in the hands of a skilled player. They are not the big one hit types anymore. Seems using DF to stack bleed and DOT's are more effective now.
DC: DC's have some issues. They have definitely nerfed the healing and also the T2 pvp set has stat issues like the CW. Like before the addition of more sets should fix this. However base DR%+PVP debuff+Tenacity+AS = hitting a brick wall. Seem to be better buffers than healers now. With some tweaks they have potential.
GF: GF's are tankier than ever. Easy flat 50% DR + PVP debuff + Tenacity = 70% standard DR. Plus 14% ARP resist makes a walking truck. However the damage debuff hits them hard so not the advantage that many people are saying. With the lowest Crit and Weapon Damage it takes a long time for a kill. Prone lock combo's do very little damage compared to before. You will get back up eventually. Also as GodlySoul mentioned the new Mark is a useful tactic for permastealth. Tested it and it will definitely follow and not drop. You see little floating symbol running around. If specced to use the 10% reduced Damage to anyone other than the GF it could be very useful tactic against any class. GWF pestering your cleric.. Mark them.
HR: HR's seem to be doing better with the change. The CC capabilities have always been great and now that they are not so squishy they can range/melee without being as afraid of the every present TR lurking just around the corner. Its more important than ever to CC someone before they can get on a cap due to the difficulty in killing now.
All in all as I previously mentioned it promotes more tactics but the matches are quite long and that might need work.
Matchmaking would also help but just from things I've read on the forums I do believe the Dev's are working on that as well. So the people that are bringing that up first I do believe that the Dev's are listening and already on it.
Sounds pretty exciting. Hopefully true and will be interesting to see. A little bummed about AePen resistance being scrapped entirely instead of % based in reduced effectiveness. Matchmaking will be awesome. Just wondering how it would differentiate between premade vs solo qeueing.
Mindflayer - Exodus
Daria - Dwarf Sentinel GWF (mistaken for Halfling a lot)
Karia (aka "The Pug") - Human Combat HR
Kayd - Human Conqueror GF - Retired
concerning the pvp matchmaker patch notes, these were removed by the devs from the forums but will be updated later. if you have copies of them, please do not repost them. they may be changed by the time the patch is released. thanks!
0
degraafinationMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
concerning the pvp matchmaker patch notes, these were removed by the devs from the forums but will be updated later. if you have copies of them, please do not repost them. they may be changed by the time the patch is released. thanks!
Cool. Just jumped on the Preview Shard, of course the changes aren't there yet. Very excited to see this in game.
downside now i have to farm GG equips all over again till my eyes bleed : (
sucks that the gear was useless before and i salvaged it who woulda thought eh.
i am glad PvP gear is now ment for PvP and now i will not have to farm PvE to PvP witch was my main gripe with this game
Gang Busters PvP Guild Recruiting When Mod 6 goes live Pm Me for more Info If you have any Paladin question Message Me and i will get back to you ASAP
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
well, considering that they nerfed the stats of the current GG set; I use it for pve
I cant imagine any tenacity items being actually good since they lower the stats.
Also, at 18% anything else is just dumb. they shouldn't add more tenacity on top
well, considering that they nerfed the stats of the current GG set; I use it for pve
I cant imagine any tenacity items being actually good since they lower the stats.
Also, at 18% anything else is just dumb. they shouldn't add more tenacity on top
Tenacity on weapons just jump your up to 20% DR etc.... So its not a big jump but does add up. I agree with Trace in that they need to have a weapon set bonus for the PVP weapons, maybe the new ones coming out, to make them more attractive.
So is there going to be another gear tab for PvP gear? Or are we expected to carry two sets in our bags and switch back and forth hoping to not accidently delete, salvage, or sell them?
So is there going to be another gear tab for PvP gear? Or are we expected to carry two sets in our bags and switch back and forth hoping to not accidently delete, salvage, or sell them?
You only carry two sets of gear? Man I have like 6 sets in my bags.... Most people already had two gear sets (pve/pvp) so its not really a change.
essentially min/max at your own risk. Not saying the feature wouldnt be cool, but with enchants its not the easiest thing to do and i would rather have time/resources spent on a proper matchmaking/ new maps/gametypes/balance etc a TON of things before just trying to save a few slots of space honestly... Not to mention for like 300 zen you can just buy another bag.... Id pay 3000 zen for a new pvp map
You only carry two sets of gear? Man I have like 6 sets in my bags.... Most people already had two gear sets (pve/pvp) so its not really a change.
essentially min/max at your own risk. Not saying the feature wouldnt be cool, but with enchants its not the easiest thing to do and i would rather have time/resources spent on a proper matchmaking/ new maps/gametypes/balance etc a TON of things before just trying to save a few slots of space honestly... Not to mention for like 300 zen you can just buy another bag.... Id pay 3000 zen for a new pvp map
I don't carry any extra sets around with me. In my bank I have every T2 set. But I almost never switch gear. Even for PvP.
Honestly, I really don't care. I rarely PvP and after this update I will never PvP but it just seemed like a good idea.
Heads up all, Myself and several other devs will be participating in today's adventure hour at 3pm! Come PVP with us and watch the stream to hear more about Tenacity, Matchmaking, and several other PVP features.
Heads up all, Myself and several other devs will be participating in today's adventure hour at 3pm! Come PVP with us and watch the stream to hear more about Tenacity, Matchmaking, and several other PVP features.
i wasn't able to test all the new gear but i was able to get the T2 pvp rings and belt. is it possible that these items will be free to try on mimic? i'm not exactly sure if it helped me, but i played two matches where i was completely slaughtered in the first one and won the second. i think most people are afraid that this is going to change pvp drastically, but other than having to acquire new pvp gear or build up on existing gear, i think it doesn't necessarily level out the playing field, but makes it less possible for you to be burst-killed. add to this the matchmaking system and truly competitive matches will be possible once this is implemented.
0
degraafinationMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
i wasn't able to test all the new gear but i was able to get the T2 pvp rings and belt. is it possible that these items will be free to try on mimic? i'm not exactly sure if it helped me, but i played two matches where i was completely slaughtered in the first one and won the second. i think most people are afraid that this is going to change pvp drastically, but other than having to acquire new pvp gear or build up on existing gear, i think it doesn't necessarily level out the playing field, but makes it less possible for you to be burst-killed. add to this the matchmaking system and truly competitive matches will be possible once this is implemented.
New gear is so easy to get: Farm Glory. That's really all you need to do.
As someone else mentioned in another thread: Why run PVE now?
Feedback: control wizard
I did pvp on preview server today i felt much lack of CC compared to what is on live server now, since everyone now can have 28% cc resist easily (10% if u are halfling, 18% PVP stat+tenacity). A control bonus stat on pvp set would be welcome
Feedback: control wizard
I did pvp on preview server today i felt much lack of CC compared to what is on live server now, since everyone now can have 28% cc resist easily (10% if u are halfling, 18% tenacity). A control bonus stat on pvp set would be welcome
Same here, most of the times people get out of Entangling Force even with full arcane stacks too fast, so you cannot properly land shard on them. Also the freezes are way way more inefficient now.
Can we get any ETA on when this stuff is going to hit live?
Id be curious to know if this is pre-mod 3 or planned FOR Mod 3. Typically the past mods have been announced on the PTR as Mod 3 PTR, since this is "shadowmantle PVP patch" I assume that means noone of this is intended for Mod 3 but prior to Mod 3?
Would it be safe to say that Mod 3 is going to then have more content for pvp as opposed to just the changes to pvp as weve seen now (which are awesome btw)./
Can you give us some tangible information on how the 10% base bonus + any bonus from tancity will ACTUALLY affect mitigation?
If you have 25% mitigation now and manage to get 20% in pvp in module3 do you have 45% mitigation? Or 25*1.2 ? Or what?
Is armor penetration calculated after all mitigation buffs have been considered? Asking this to know if any of it will be wasted like it now even though everyone gets more mitigation.
The mitigation cap is 80%, but, in a true pvp match it will never be 80% due to armor penetration. Is any mitigation past 80% simply ignored or does it still act on enemy armor penetration?
Please give us some information this time without us having to figure it out in special premades. So many of your tooltips are <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> maybe you should bother fixing them while at it.
Can you give us some tangible information on how the 10% base bonus + any bonus from tancity will ACTUALLY affect mitigation?
If you have 25% mitigation now and manage to get 20% in pvp in module3 do you have 45% mitigation? Or 25*1.2 ? Or what?
During the livestream, mr. gentlemancrush stated that the new bonuses are multiplicative. In my mind, a very (over-)simple example would be
1000 damage vs 25% DR and 20% bonus DR
(1000*0.80)*0.75
600
Is armor penetration calculated after all mitigation buffs have been considered? Asking this to know if any of it will be wasted like it now even though everyone gets more mitigation.
I logged into the forums to ask this, so quoted for relevance.
To clarify (my point at least), is there any way to reduce the effects of tenacity (example - armor penetration)?
Comments
That is more or less my opinion as well. Initially I was against it, but I think with some minor tweaks to the stat, PVP could become ALOT more fun. Its not 100% balanced in its current form, so making a few small changes I think will help alot! (see my previous post on last page)
I also want to stress that with more game TYPEs/MAPS and a proper matchmaking system COMBINED with these changes, this will REALLY be an awesome addition to the game, and dont forget MORE gear sets!!!
Honestly, for me this is not a PVP MMO, there are much better PVP MMO's around. PVP at this game is just a cherry on the chocolate cake.
Like many people said, better to keep everything simple. The more you add, the harder it will be to adjust, because you will have more and more variables after each change.
This is a Dungeon and Dragons game..at least that is what you claim. I don't see much Dungeon and Dragons in this, only very small glimpses of it. This game looks like some Action-keybinded game, something like action-WoW?!
Make PvP, simple and fun. Add DEADLY traps...like in D&D...traps that instantly kill you. Add changing environments, for exemple: some bridge at the middle of the map that sometimes goes down, and other times it reconnects.
Make the map dynamic...force the players to think about each opportunity..rather then slaughering which is too hard to balance.
Being smart also counts in war, not only being strong and deadly.
This is a great game and has alot of potential, just make it like D&D (not like DDO...which is being killed by Warner Bros of course), I mean real D&D MMO. Neverwinter has ALL tools for it. You just need to want it.
Thanks for reading.
Edit 1: added blue colour;
Edit 2: chosen wrong blue and corrected it
Edit 3: well had to re-paste the reply and choose the colour again, last fix did not work.
From what I have seen I honestly believe as Stox said, that this is doing what the Dev's intended. Tanky classes are very tanky but not unkillable anymore as well as survivability to squishy classes. It also seems previously unused powers/feats are more useful. The base pvp buff works well however not sure about the %. I do believe that might need tweaking but more testing is of course needed to figure out the amount.
GWF: Sentinel are actually killable 1v1 now. Its not a quick kill by any means but a skilled player can over time due to regen debuff eventually wear one down. Before it took a full regen/deflect GF bunker to troll prone one off point without any other attacks to build determination. Even then they couldn't kill one and the tactic was screwed if a foolish teammate ran up and started 2v1 for instant determination and Unstoppable spamming. GWF is still tanky and a great class, just not immortal.
CW: A CW is a lot harder to kill than before. The CC nerf does hurt but the increased DR makes the survivability greater so they can rotate more often. However I do agree that the PVP set has some stat issues. Since more PVP sets are in the work from what I have heard that could be fixed by the time the release is out.
TR: TR's do not hit nearly as hard. However when played right not using the present cookie cutter live builds they are incredibly hard to kill. Almost worse than a GWF or GF in the hands of a skilled player. They are not the big one hit types anymore. Seems using DF to stack bleed and DOT's are more effective now.
DC: DC's have some issues. They have definitely nerfed the healing and also the T2 pvp set has stat issues like the CW. Like before the addition of more sets should fix this. However base DR%+PVP debuff+Tenacity+AS = hitting a brick wall. Seem to be better buffers than healers now. With some tweaks they have potential.
GF: GF's are tankier than ever. Easy flat 50% DR + PVP debuff + Tenacity = 70% standard DR. Plus 14% ARP resist makes a walking truck. However the damage debuff hits them hard so not the advantage that many people are saying. With the lowest Crit and Weapon Damage it takes a long time for a kill. Prone lock combo's do very little damage compared to before. You will get back up eventually. Also as GodlySoul mentioned the new Mark is a useful tactic for permastealth. Tested it and it will definitely follow and not drop. You see little floating symbol running around. If specced to use the 10% reduced Damage to anyone other than the GF it could be very useful tactic against any class. GWF pestering your cleric.. Mark them.
HR: HR's seem to be doing better with the change. The CC capabilities have always been great and now that they are not so squishy they can range/melee without being as afraid of the every present TR lurking just around the corner. Its more important than ever to CC someone before they can get on a cap due to the difficulty in killing now.
All in all as I previously mentioned it promotes more tactics but the matches are quite long and that might need work.
Matchmaking would also help but just from things I've read on the forums I do believe the Dev's are working on that as well. So the people that are bringing that up first I do believe that the Dev's are listening and already on it.
<< patch notes removed per the CM, this will be updated at a later date >>
Wow. Very excited about these changes!
Join Essence of Aggression: PVP-ing Hard Since Beta!
Daria - Dwarf Sentinel GWF (mistaken for Halfling a lot)
Karia (aka "The Pug") - Human Combat HR
Kayd - Human Conqueror GF - Retired
Cool. Just jumped on the Preview Shard, of course the changes aren't there yet. Very excited to see this in game.
Keep up the good work, Devs!
Join Essence of Aggression: PVP-ing Hard Since Beta!
sucks that the gear was useless before and i salvaged it who woulda thought eh.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Except the pvp gear for certain classes is awful and they just killed variety by pretty much forcing you to have to wear it.
that may be the case today, but they are adding new pvp gear. hopefully the different sets will adequately fit different play styles/builds.
Join Essence of Aggression: PVP-ing Hard Since Beta!
I cant imagine any tenacity items being actually good since they lower the stats.
Also, at 18% anything else is just dumb. they shouldn't add more tenacity on top
Tenacity on weapons just jump your up to 20% DR etc.... So its not a big jump but does add up. I agree with Trace in that they need to have a weapon set bonus for the PVP weapons, maybe the new ones coming out, to make them more attractive.
You only carry two sets of gear? Man I have like 6 sets in my bags.... Most people already had two gear sets (pve/pvp) so its not really a change.
essentially min/max at your own risk. Not saying the feature wouldnt be cool, but with enchants its not the easiest thing to do and i would rather have time/resources spent on a proper matchmaking/ new maps/gametypes/balance etc a TON of things before just trying to save a few slots of space honestly... Not to mention for like 300 zen you can just buy another bag.... Id pay 3000 zen for a new pvp map
I don't carry any extra sets around with me. In my bank I have every T2 set. But I almost never switch gear. Even for PvP.
Honestly, I really don't care. I rarely PvP and after this update I will never PvP but it just seemed like a good idea.
MORE INFORMATION: http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?589881-Neverwinter-Adventure-Hour-PvP-with-the-Devs-1-24-3PM-PST
Be there of be square!!!
Aww I open launcher to log preview only to see ninja patch 800 MB lol
Very nice
i wasn't able to test all the new gear but i was able to get the T2 pvp rings and belt. is it possible that these items will be free to try on mimic? i'm not exactly sure if it helped me, but i played two matches where i was completely slaughtered in the first one and won the second. i think most people are afraid that this is going to change pvp drastically, but other than having to acquire new pvp gear or build up on existing gear, i think it doesn't necessarily level out the playing field, but makes it less possible for you to be burst-killed. add to this the matchmaking system and truly competitive matches will be possible once this is implemented.
New gear is so easy to get: Farm Glory. That's really all you need to do.
As someone else mentioned in another thread: Why run PVE now?
Join Essence of Aggression: PVP-ing Hard Since Beta!
Do the bonuses from tenacity only work in whole number increments, or can I have 18.1% bonus damage resistance?
I did pvp on preview server today i felt much lack of CC compared to what is on live server now, since everyone now can have 28% cc resist easily (10% if u are halfling, 18% PVP stat+tenacity). A control bonus stat on pvp set would be welcome
https://www.youtube.com/user/ThePatomalo/videos
Same here, most of the times people get out of Entangling Force even with full arcane stacks too fast, so you cannot properly land shard on them. Also the freezes are way way more inefficient now.
Id be curious to know if this is pre-mod 3 or planned FOR Mod 3. Typically the past mods have been announced on the PTR as Mod 3 PTR, since this is "shadowmantle PVP patch" I assume that means noone of this is intended for Mod 3 but prior to Mod 3?
Would it be safe to say that Mod 3 is going to then have more content for pvp as opposed to just the changes to pvp as weve seen now (which are awesome btw)./
They do work in increments. The Character sheet currently isn't displaying them correctly, but that is a bug, not the intended display.
If you have 25% mitigation now and manage to get 20% in pvp in module3 do you have 45% mitigation? Or 25*1.2 ? Or what?
Is armor penetration calculated after all mitigation buffs have been considered? Asking this to know if any of it will be wasted like it now even though everyone gets more mitigation.
The mitigation cap is 80%, but, in a true pvp match it will never be 80% due to armor penetration. Is any mitigation past 80% simply ignored or does it still act on enemy armor penetration?
Please give us some information this time without us having to figure it out in special premades. So many of your tooltips are <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> maybe you should bother fixing them while at it.
I appreciate your dedication to this thread and player inquiries.
During the livestream, mr. gentlemancrush stated that the new bonuses are multiplicative. In my mind, a very (over-)simple example would be
1000 damage vs 25% DR and 20% bonus DR
(1000*0.80)*0.75
600 I logged into the forums to ask this, so quoted for relevance.
To clarify (my point at least), is there any way to reduce the effects of tenacity (example - armor penetration)?