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CW nerfs revisited
prettycelt
Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 777 Arc User
Ok, well, I'm no expert, and I don't know exact dates, but I for one DEFINITELY remember a few mods back when CW was SEVERELY nerfed all across the board...damage on almost every power was reduced anywhere from 20-60%, Shard of the Endless Avalanche was made laughable, and about the only power that was actually improved was Steal Time. The newer players won't remember this, but trust me, it was bad. Well, we all made do by necessity, and one of the few bright spots in that horrible hamstringing was that Chill was no longer utterly disrupted by your own damage, and seemed to be working as intended all along. Result? More control, and a lot more CW's slotting Icy Terrain and the like. I could finally be the "Ice mage" I'd wanted to be. My CW actually ended up doing as much or more DPS than before.
Fast forward to the last patch and this Storm Spell nerf. Now THAT one hurt...I use a Spellstorm Mage Thaumaturge CW, and had always slotted Eye of the Storm and Storm Spell class features. There wasn't even a question of anything else. To that end, I invested in numerous Cubes of Augmentation to gamble on Artifact weapon powers, and was pleased to get (after spending probably a quarter of a million AD's!) the one that adds a 5% chance of Storm Spell proccing twice. That was awesome, and seemed to happen more than 5% of the time, though maybe that was just wishful thinking on my part. The synergy of the class features and a decent crit rating made for nice damage spikes whenever Storm Spell would critically hit. Was it 20% of my damage as some people have surmised? I don't know, but it was a VERY healthy chunk of it.
Like I said, I don't know the specific math and haven't kept running tallies for numbers besides glancing at the Combat log and trying to compare, but even to my untrained eye it is a noticeable dip in damage. I especially saw it in recent skirmishes and dungeons...suddenly I was dropping to 2nd or 3rd place in Paingiver. Now it seems I am stuck with a choice of either going back, buying more Cubes and trying for a different benefit, or totally respeccing and surrendering to the cookie-cutter Renegade build for the higher crit chance to make up for my lost Storm Spell crits. The kicker is that all of these forced changes seem to have stemmed from complaints in PvP...and I don't even participate in PvP! I know a lot of people love it...I hate it, that's just me. But now I am paying the price along with everyone else, left sitting here wondering just how to climb back to where I was. AGAIN.
All I know is I am getting really fed up with grinding/striving/paying through the nose to attain some semblance of competitive edge, only to have the rug swept out from beneath my feet again and again...in terms of powers, in terms of gear, in terms of fine tuning that is rendered useless, money and resources down the drain. It has become really very frustrating and disheartening. Yeah, I know, there will be those who get on here and sanctimoniously preach ADAPT...and I will. It's either that or quit, and at this point I am hanging in there out of sheer stubborn resolve and refusal to abandon all I've striven for. I don't want to quit. I love my CW and spare no expense when it comes to finding ways to improve.
I just really, REALLY wish we could quit with the nerfs in some back-engineering attempt to balance the classes for PvP, when frankly IMO the PvP in NWO seems as though it was an afterthought in the first place, and has been plagued with inequities, bugs and exploits since day one. Nerfing Storm Spell really seemed unnecessary, a kick in the pants for no good reason I can see, and it hurt my PvE in a big way. I suppose it's too much to ask that it be rolled back, but it sure would be nice to have something to counterbalance the loss...perhaps a higher chance of it proccing, a greater base damage for it, something. Anything. With the tougher mobs and dungeons of Mod 6, along with the Lifesteal nerf, we really needed those Storm Spell crits to even the odds!
Thanks for listening.
Fast forward to the last patch and this Storm Spell nerf. Now THAT one hurt...I use a Spellstorm Mage Thaumaturge CW, and had always slotted Eye of the Storm and Storm Spell class features. There wasn't even a question of anything else. To that end, I invested in numerous Cubes of Augmentation to gamble on Artifact weapon powers, and was pleased to get (after spending probably a quarter of a million AD's!) the one that adds a 5% chance of Storm Spell proccing twice. That was awesome, and seemed to happen more than 5% of the time, though maybe that was just wishful thinking on my part. The synergy of the class features and a decent crit rating made for nice damage spikes whenever Storm Spell would critically hit. Was it 20% of my damage as some people have surmised? I don't know, but it was a VERY healthy chunk of it.
Like I said, I don't know the specific math and haven't kept running tallies for numbers besides glancing at the Combat log and trying to compare, but even to my untrained eye it is a noticeable dip in damage. I especially saw it in recent skirmishes and dungeons...suddenly I was dropping to 2nd or 3rd place in Paingiver. Now it seems I am stuck with a choice of either going back, buying more Cubes and trying for a different benefit, or totally respeccing and surrendering to the cookie-cutter Renegade build for the higher crit chance to make up for my lost Storm Spell crits. The kicker is that all of these forced changes seem to have stemmed from complaints in PvP...and I don't even participate in PvP! I know a lot of people love it...I hate it, that's just me. But now I am paying the price along with everyone else, left sitting here wondering just how to climb back to where I was. AGAIN.
All I know is I am getting really fed up with grinding/striving/paying through the nose to attain some semblance of competitive edge, only to have the rug swept out from beneath my feet again and again...in terms of powers, in terms of gear, in terms of fine tuning that is rendered useless, money and resources down the drain. It has become really very frustrating and disheartening. Yeah, I know, there will be those who get on here and sanctimoniously preach ADAPT...and I will. It's either that or quit, and at this point I am hanging in there out of sheer stubborn resolve and refusal to abandon all I've striven for. I don't want to quit. I love my CW and spare no expense when it comes to finding ways to improve.
I just really, REALLY wish we could quit with the nerfs in some back-engineering attempt to balance the classes for PvP, when frankly IMO the PvP in NWO seems as though it was an afterthought in the first place, and has been plagued with inequities, bugs and exploits since day one. Nerfing Storm Spell really seemed unnecessary, a kick in the pants for no good reason I can see, and it hurt my PvE in a big way. I suppose it's too much to ask that it be rolled back, but it sure would be nice to have something to counterbalance the loss...perhaps a higher chance of it proccing, a greater base damage for it, something. Anything. With the tougher mobs and dungeons of Mod 6, along with the Lifesteal nerf, we really needed those Storm Spell crits to even the odds!
Thanks for listening.
Post edited by zebular on
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all player about 2,5k GS CW-TR-WL
CW end 50 mio damage, TR same, me 70 Mio
i spend not a single CC in the hole run, nothing to make the group perform better, only passive procs from dark revelry
CW: icy terrain + "meatball" some places + repell + entangeling forces - doing this, scipping damage, he dealt very solid damage
TR: cc'd at least with his smoke bomb + dazing strike
Warlock (me): all time WB, DT + SoulScorch, spammimg tyrannical thread every! mob group (thats the best damage setup the class has)
after the run I only dealt 20 mio + damage compared to the other classes
Since I know my class and run this dungeon with closed eyes, I really do not share your sorrows at all
PVP is a complete different story, there you only find classes dominating that either pierce (TR/GF) or are tanky as hell (DC / Pala)
this will not change until piercing damage is taken out of this game and the tenacity system gets improved or just deleted, since it makes things far too complicated atm
they should tone down te over all damage in PVP (like a debuff)
Tenacity is a real pain in case you can´t stack enough arp to mitigate it, and even if you do, some classes sit o their 70% overall DR wearing T Negation
even having 2 million Arp, you would not deal 1% more damage, thats BS
I don't understand how a little less dps causes pve to be significantly more difficult.
If you really cared about succeeding in pve, you would be renegade because it buffs all in the party.
GF has piercing damage?
There is a big difference between prison camps (prisoners are controlled) and death camps (prisoners are killed).
When you walk you dog, you control it with leash or by kicking it to death?. You either control mobs or kill them. Killing is NOT control contrary to BS belief. Yes, dead mobs don't do damage but it's NOT control. You want to 'control' mobs by killing them?. Fine with me, just give up all your CC your powers have AT THE SAME TIME DOING HUGE DAMAGE.
That nerf is a step in right direction. You EITHER do damage OR control. Not both at the same time. You've been privilaged for 5 Modules but now it's time to play the game as intended with no more BS around.
devs need to add a new combat hotbar for PvP menu skill tree, so it wont effect PvE contents. it need switch for PvE/PvP modes.
"You do know that death is the best from of CC in this game right?"
- and the best defense, is the attack. buff tanks!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObpcGNCU944
- death is the best control. listen cops? kill then all!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObpcGNCU944
-(censored to not offend some culture in the world) your childrens!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zu9W8AtZy7U
i will interview today mike tyson, some hot girl and a boring rock-indie band.
It's been this way since I started and I have been asking for a separation for what seems like forever. My CW is a Renegade so I didn't see much of a change but the quoted section above hits us all very hard. We constantly have to change our builds, rotations, etc because PvE and PvP (seemingly) can't be separated. I don't buy that but I also don't work for Cryptic. I've said it before and will continue saying it - it's not the Devs that control what gets fixed, it's the managers that are monetizing. If PvE/PvP separation were seen as a way to make more money, it would get done. As it is, they really have no reason to do so.
I both dread and look forward to seeing how the Strongholds are setup for this very reason.
I fine with that as long as Cryptic does the same for every single class that has powers with CC components, like dazes, stuns, knockdowns, etc. Remove all the damage from those powers for the GWF, GF, SW, TR, DC, HR and OP and we'll have a level playing field.
in theory (lets ignore the dynamic of the game) only gwf sws and paladins is not a controllers. so is just change the prones for stun... whats happening in pvp for gwfs.
Defenders take a lot of damage, mark targets and protect the rest of the party. If enemies they target try to attack another member of the party the defender will attack to stun, damage or taunt enemies to protect their companions."
but that is not about eliminate some possibility, but give some hierarchy.
I don't see what the problem is. Defenders can still stun and taunt mobs. They just can't do damage with it.
That's consistent with your this OR that philosophy, is it not?
In all your saltiness you must have confused me with someone that gives a **** about PvP. Newsflash - I don't. 'gf should not be dealing out the damage it does now as it is a tank' this line says a lot about you, I guess you're one of these guys that believes in 'perma stealth, perma daze, piercing damage, tons of HP and deflect, 1shot' TRs.
I'm not saying that ie. CWs shouldn't have damage on CC powers or CC on damage powers. I've simply implied that huge damage output shouldn't be in line with the best CC capabilities. Like it's been said many times before (using CW as an example but not limited to CWs only), if you want CC you go Oppressor but your damage output is low, if you want damage you go Thaum or Rene (whatever) but you have none/close to non-exsistant CC.
But like I said, it's not limited to CWs. TRs ie. shouldn't do obscene amounts of damage remaining in stealth all the time (PvP) and so on and so forth.
The point of my post was basicly: the balance is beyond off in this game, but recent SS nerf was a step in right direction. Now we can only hope that this step has a follow up and we will witness more and more changes to all classes that will bring us as close to balance as possible.
But next step should be complete split between PvP and PvE else we will never see a true balance at all.
and cws still do great damage. no complain about that. but rangers/gfs/dcs/rogues dont should be punishid if is the case.
Thats absolutely correct.
Correct too.
And also correct. Thumbs up
Fine. But remove all damage from all CC powers then. I know SW's are complaining that the prone is broke on Harrowstorm, but according your philosophy, that's how the power should be to begin with. It does damage, therefore it shouldn't CC.
Or they can remove the damage from Harrowstorm and keep the CC.
Which is it?
This I truly agree with. There should be more ways to spec outside of just one cookie cutter one to achieve damage. I wouldn't mind being able to mix trees in some light and only have so many slight differences.
But why does only 1 class want huge dps AND cc? To kill bosses you got great dps classes. Also for trash and trash mob grps. Dunno why CWs still thinking they must have both: DPS + CC.
Gimme time steal and will give you ibs for it.
Remember all those (many many) topics about TT of SW's from CW's? (or any other topic about other classes, but here I can say faster killing = faster clearing) Simply cause they losed the Paingiver status. Nerf this, nerf that, nerf everything except the CW cause we want the best cc/dps/mitigation (Tabbed shield + negation ae).
Intented by whome? You? When you can compare walking your dog with playing a game and clearing overpowered almost UNCONTROLLABLE ai, I think you expect to wake up in morning and finding out valindra having a morning walk on your lawn with her undead bodyguards......real life and this game are two very diffferent things you and all of you must understand first, who are talking about this control is not killing such kinda thing.
Hell in real world also depending on terminologies control does mean killing,,,ever heard the word paste control? Or you prefer to control all the cockroaches and flies in your house by storing/stunning/chloroforming (lol
What about almost single boss fights where there is almost no adds,like elol final boss, vt valindra etc? Does cw have any role there if he cant dps? No team will likely ask for a cw at a place where the mobs are either almost immune to cc or elites/bosses with full cc immunity. Then cws are not supposed to play those is that what you mean?
I dont care about the top dps chart but if a gwf after this nerf to cw with blue "cruel amulet of reviving" is beating a full epic + legendery tr (another meele hitter class with ls set) and my full epic cw by a huge amount ofdamage , at least more than 25% then clearly everything is broken, and needs fixing or reworking. I am agree with same il, gwfs shld be The hitter, but not this, this is abomination and insult, not to only cws (as controller class) but to other primary striker classes as well.
Player may choose only one of three capstones.
In your terminology, this would be
cookie A
cookie B
cookie C
Cryptic does not allow players to put feat points into any feat. Cryptic only allows putting feat points into pre-determined feat paths. All feat builds are "cookie-cutter" builds. Choices are very limited.
If you despise cookie-cutter builds, then I suggest playing a different game without classes.
I am pretty sure I've never stated that CC powers should do NO damage AT ALL. What I've said though is that CC powers shouldn't be those with ridiculous damage on them (if we're speaking of powers precisely). I have no problem with CC powers doing damage, it's just unreasonable for a class (any class) to do BOTH enormous damage AND control AT THE SAME TIME. This should go either way, not the best of both worlds.
My repiles are those in green text.
Been waiting all week to reply here.
Don't change your off-hand feature. What is does (whether intended or not) is give Storm Spell to proc on ANY damage, and that proc CAN critical strike. With the nerf to Storm Spell, it actually makes the off-hand feature comparatively BETTER, and you'd be dong yourself a disservice to either stop using Storm Spell or the off-hand feature.