Blocking votekicks when _any_ party member is in combat would IMHO be the way to go!
Can't understand why this isn't the case already...
Also blocking them after the final boss drops below 50% health, for the rest of the run - unless there's a wipe.
Naming the initiator? I'm not really for this. But a moderate cooldown after initiating the second vote within a short time (e.g. 5 minutes) would be reasonable. Or 3 votes in 15 minutes, or somesuch.
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isaintify1Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 414Arc User
edited June 2015
How about the issue of getting kicked from a "T1" like elol for not having high IL and not having the gear for it. This automatically means a kick out of the party. How do people "get gear" if they get kicked from the dungeon for not having "gear".
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santralafaxMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,896Arc User
As for getting gear--some suggestions are farm Black Ice for Elemental Black Ice Gear (IL 122) or do some PVP and pick up pieces with glory. PVP isn't so bad after you try it a few times. I avoided it like the plague for months....
It is the developers' fault. You should be able to get decent gear playing PVE--I'm not that hot on dungeons OR PVP. Heroic Encounters, anyone?
There's a very simple solution to all this mess. Even the XBoxers realized it already (and are advocating the same thing):
remove vote kicking from the game. It's not needed. If you don't like the way people do the instance, you're free to leave and start another party. Done. End of story.
Awesome solution. Now if one person decides to afk through the entire dungeon to leech or afks right at the end, the rest of the 4 party members has start all over again even if they played fine. Surely you know some people are selfish, surely you can understand that some people would surely just alt tab and let everyone else do the work?
• Queue Improvements: We have made a number adjustments to the queue system to help improve the overall experience. It is still recommended that players who want specific group requirements or players group up before entering the queue. These features may be tuned while the server is active should any of the initial settings be too strict or lax.
o When queues fill a player who has left they now respect roles. Ie. If a Devoted Cleric leaves a map the queue will only replace them with another Devoted Cleric or an Oathbound Paladin of the appropriate specialization.
o After a map has had a number of players leave the queue will no longer attempt to fill players from the queue. This is both to prevent maps that are in a stuck state to continually send players there as well as discourage frequent use of vote kicking.
o There is now a minimum amount of time that must pass before a player may be vote kicked from a party. It should be enough time that it will be worth attempting any content before being able to kick the player.
[...]
It's an improvement, probably.
Probable problem: The kick-o-rama fans won't read this.
...folks, I'd love to see their faces when they sit there in ther DD run spawn place, and no more fresh people get into their instance... :^D
On the other hand, they're probably thick enough to just leave the map, and join the Q again. But in the long run it'll get through to them. Will have fun reading PE zone chat tomorrow :^)
Ok, so I understand that the vote kicking needed a shake up, but patch notes say that there will be a minimum time limit before vote kicking is allowed. And that the time limit will make it worth attempting the content. How long is this timer? What happens if that person gets disconnected or goes afk for 15 minutes before being disconnected? Now what happens if it happens to two of them?
I don't think this was the way to go.
I can see it creating more problems than it solves.
Thoughts?
It's customary to wait when someone has been disconnected. If you're looking to kick someone as soon as they DC, then I am glad that they've put a mandatory time limit to prevent people from doing that.
You should also notice that there is a limit on how many replacements you will get in a zone.
In sum these things will make it considerably less attractive to randomly votekick people. You know what you have, but not what you get etc.
That was really needed, votekicking is WAY out of hand.
For the specific examples of afk or ld, in most cases that will happen after the timer is out so you can votekick straight away for that. There likely will be a few cases where it is a problem, but that is a small price to pay for an overall better system. We are just talking of waiting a few minutes anyways, so small consequence really.
Cryptic are asking for feedback, so if the settings for max number of replacements or votekick timer turns out to be problematic, I am sure they can be discussed.
We do need an improvement of the votekick mechanism itself though. The votekick window should not block you from doing anything else, a votekick window in the middle of a fight can easily kill you and thus be used for harassment. Also having to click the votekick in a hurry means most people are defaulting to clicking yes without thinking(personally I default to no).
Votekick windows should let you drag them aside and continue fighting, so you can consider the votekick request after the fight.
It also might be a good thing to show the name of who initiated the votekick. That would not be name and shame, that would be taking responsibility for your actions. Part of the reason votekick is so rampant is that people can do it anonymously so they will not get *****ed at for it. That makes it way too easy to abuse the votekick system.
This is a good change indeed! There was more than once that I've experienced that I was insta-kicked from party as soon as I joined, so this is a welcome change.
Oh, I love this change so much! No more cherry-picking or kicking at the boss room. I'm gonna play some dungeons tonight
Well,... ...no.
Just no kick-kick-kick-until-3.5k-ILvl-gets-rolled-in. And no kick-ever-so-often. But if you don't kick any players before, boss room kicking still is completely possible... ...though it might prove detrimental to the run success.
Also, I'd give it some time to settle, until the news has reached everyone, before joyfully going to DDs. But I'll enjoy the PE zone chat tonight :^D
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ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
My thoughts? This is why we can't have nice things.
People abused and abused and abused the "vote kick" feature, which has negatively impacted the game for a lot of players (especially on the Xbox One). So now we're getting new clamps put in place for the feature.
The players have no one to blame but themselves for this.
Unfortunately, the disconnect problem is a lot more rare than people just willy-nilly booting players until they get the "right" one to finish the dungeon. It's an inconvenience that we'll have to live with.
However, I would also (just to be safe) disable vote-kicking once you click the door to engage a boss, and for 5 minutes after a boss dies. And once the dungeon is complete, vote-kicking should be disabled all together.
Also, disable vote-kicking while a loot roll is active.
What they don't mention in the notes is that when people 'quit' not just get vote kicked also uses up the replenish limit. So eventually if to many people quit the group you will no longer get a new person to join and you are forced to quit.
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instynctiveMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,885Arc User
edited June 2015
When I do attempt a dungeon, I never get kicked.
But then again, I stopped PuGging in February. I don't trust random internet strangers to not be complete dooshnozzles.
[...]
However, I would also (just to be safe) disable vote-kicking once you click the door to engage a boss, and for 5 minutes after a boss dies. And once the dungeon is complete, vote-kicking should be disabled all together.
[...]
From my experience, all that is already the case. It just says "vote kicking not possible right now".
Good gods! I'll kick you next time then! "too low" or "sdsdsdsds"! Those are the most common reasons I saw!
Seriously, not pugging when the chance to get that item you want is like 0.01% is just not reasonable for me. Now waiting for leaver penalties!
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drkbodhiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,378Arc User
edited June 2015
What I like it the "replace X class that was kicked with the same class and/or build" concept.
This is a good idea. Justifying a 'vote kick' for X reason is bull****. There is NEVER a reason to kick someone out of a party. NEVER... if you don't like the part... you leave.
We were doing a guild run, minus a Tank, through eCC... and our SW dc'd and had to restart his computer. We know because he was on RC with another guild member... who was in the party. Anyways... the PuG Tank decided to put in a vote kick as soon as he was dc'd. Considering the way the game has been... that was a rather ****ty thing to do. Clearly he did not notice that we were all in the same guild.
Anyways it turned out to be a good run.
Instead of trying to have others do you heavy lifting... and then kicking them out. Make your own group instead of stealing someone else's group.
Atwil "At" - Tiefling TR / Saardush - Black Dragonborn GWF / White - Tiefling OP
not pugging when the chance to get that item you want is like 0.01% is just not reasonable for me
Yeah I definitely hear that. Its hard to find a pug group that will stick it out, or not chew through 8 people trying to achieve. Leaver penalties would be detrimental though as sometimes the group structure is just never going to work. Unfortunately it means making parties before you head in, which will render the queue system void. I can also see people wanting to inspect party members before any dungeon which is going to kill it for the little guy.
I can also see people wanting to inspect party members before any dungeon which is going to kill it for the little guy.
That's always been the case. People premake because they have a certain standard that excludes the little guys. This change will protect the little guy in the queue system. This is a greate, though long overdue, change. The only people complaining are the ones who complains about everything, and the abuser who now lost some power and will now have to finish more dungeons with a less than optimal group.
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drkbodhiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,378Arc User
edited June 2015
Well here is one huge argument against people who "inspect for quality".
A TR in CA is one of the heaviest hitters in the guild. That is saying a lot since we have a couple of gut-wrenching GWFs. one insane SW and several face-melting and atom-bombing CWs. Each of these, save the GWFs, have much higher iLvls than the TR in question. I have not seen him head to head with a CW or the GWFs, but he spanked the SW.
His iLvl... is just over 2.4k, and he spends no RL money on this game. The casters all have iLvls over 3.2k.
The quality of the killer is not on how purple/yellow/blue their sword is, it is based on how well they can use it.
Yes... that is a double entendre... but the facts are the facts. iLvl shows nothing but willingness to spend money on your toons.
Imagine how much crow you will have to eat when a f2p player kicks your butt in "Paingiver".
Atwil "At" - Tiefling TR / Saardush - Black Dragonborn GWF / White - Tiefling OP
Since IWD HE farming is consuming the vast majority of the population right now, as soon as you vote kick someone they're just going to rejoin the party (since they're the only replacement in queue) and now you're stuck with them until the timer expires. That really needs to be fixed.
"While it is possible to tank as a Justice or Light paladin, it is substantially harder, especially on longer fights where Holy Barrier and your other defensive feats get chances to kick in and contribute quite a bit of defensive power." - System Designer Gentlemancrush
Since IWD HE farming is consuming the vast majority of the population right now, as soon as you vote kick someone they're just going to rejoin the party (since they're the only replacement in queue) and now you're stuck with them until the timer expires. That really needs to be fixed.
It's probably going to be much worse than that. Wait until people realize when that same person counts as a tick toward the replenishment count each time and you no longer get 'any' people to join even though it was the same person over again. lol
It wont change much for players who run 5man premade. It's going to be a problem for those who solo q or do small premades, because there's lot's of players who cheat with itemlvl just to enter the 1600 or 2000 bracket while their dps is not big enough to make a difference. Just to give you an example. I was once in T2 dungeon playing my tank and did more dmg than our TR, despite both of us playing from the begining.
This have will have the biggest impact on low-mid geared players, because those might have harder time getting in to smooth runs and PUGing with all the itemlvl cheaters will be nightmare.
There's a very simple solution to all this mess. Even the XBoxers realized it already (and are advocating the same thing):
remove vote kicking from the game. It's not needed. If you don't like the way people do the instance, you're free to leave and start another party. Done. End of story.
^^ This exactly!!! There should be mechanics at play to determine the afk'ers. That control should have never been in the hands of another player!!! Too many players learning their own mechanics are being kicked thus not allowing them to gain the experience needed. I agree 1000% the votekick system should be completely removed.
Take the extra time to do the job right and it will never come back to bite you in the A**
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damnaciousMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 354Arc User
edited June 2015
Quite simply, if i was to initiate a vote to kick someone from a party then i don't care who knows it was me that did so as i would be man enough and confident enough that it was the right thing to do that i could stand by my action without hiding behind anonymity like a coward.
If someone wants to have an issue with me because I initiated a vote to kick them from a party, then there is the very simple process of placing them on ignore.
If you aren't prepared to take responsibility for your actions then obviously you have something to hide.
soulbearer1Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 54Arc User
edited June 2015
There's this chat channel called LFG. It means Looking For Group.
Form your own group and stop worrying about getting kicked. If you randomly join a group through the queue process then you'll be susceptible to many different situations -- being kicked out is one of those situations.
Nonetheless, there's a new update to the queue system on today's patch.
Agreed. That's why I still think we should do away with the vote kicking in full. Give a DCed person 5 minutes to get back, otherwise he'll get removed and replaced with someone from the queue that fits the role. For the rest: If you don't like the party, feel free to leave (and get replaced).
Comments
Can't understand why this isn't the case already...
Also blocking them after the final boss drops below 50% health, for the rest of the run - unless there's a wipe.
Naming the initiator? I'm not really for this. But a moderate cooldown after initiating the second vote within a short time (e.g. 5 minutes) would be reasonable. Or 3 votes in 15 minutes, or somesuch.
But it was you who were asked!
I'm all for the original poster's suggestion.
As for getting gear--some suggestions are farm Black Ice for Elemental Black Ice Gear (IL 122) or do some PVP and pick up pieces with glory. PVP isn't so bad after you try it a few times. I avoided it like the plague for months....
It is the developers' fault. You should be able to get decent gear playing PVE--I'm not that hot on dungeons OR PVP. Heroic Encounters, anyone?
Awesome solution. Now if one person decides to afk through the entire dungeon to leech or afks right at the end, the rest of the 4 party members has start all over again even if they played fine. Surely you know some people are selfish, surely you can understand that some people would surely just alt tab and let everyone else do the work?
It's an improvement, probably.
Probable problem: The kick-o-rama fans won't read this.
...folks, I'd love to see their faces when they sit there in ther DD run spawn place, and no more fresh people get into their instance... :^D
On the other hand, they're probably thick enough to just leave the map, and join the Q again. But in the long run it'll get through to them. Will have fun reading PE zone chat tomorrow :^)
I don't think this was the way to go.
I can see it creating more problems than it solves.
Thoughts?
In sum these things will make it considerably less attractive to randomly votekick people. You know what you have, but not what you get etc.
That was really needed, votekicking is WAY out of hand.
For the specific examples of afk or ld, in most cases that will happen after the timer is out so you can votekick straight away for that. There likely will be a few cases where it is a problem, but that is a small price to pay for an overall better system. We are just talking of waiting a few minutes anyways, so small consequence really.
Cryptic are asking for feedback, so if the settings for max number of replacements or votekick timer turns out to be problematic, I am sure they can be discussed.
All over a very good change.
Votekick windows should let you drag them aside and continue fighting, so you can consider the votekick request after the fight.
It also might be a good thing to show the name of who initiated the votekick. That would not be name and shame, that would be taking responsibility for your actions. Part of the reason votekick is so rampant is that people can do it anonymously so they will not get *****ed at for it. That makes it way too easy to abuse the votekick system.
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Well,... ...no.
Just no kick-kick-kick-until-3.5k-ILvl-gets-rolled-in. And no kick-ever-so-often. But if you don't kick any players before, boss room kicking still is completely possible... ...though it might prove detrimental to the run success.
Also, I'd give it some time to settle, until the news has reached everyone, before joyfully going to DDs. But I'll enjoy the PE zone chat tonight :^D
My thoughts? This is why we can't have nice things.
People abused and abused and abused the "vote kick" feature, which has negatively impacted the game for a lot of players (especially on the Xbox One). So now we're getting new clamps put in place for the feature.
The players have no one to blame but themselves for this.
Unfortunately, the disconnect problem is a lot more rare than people just willy-nilly booting players until they get the "right" one to finish the dungeon. It's an inconvenience that we'll have to live with.
However, I would also (just to be safe) disable vote-kicking once you click the door to engage a boss, and for 5 minutes after a boss dies. And once the dungeon is complete, vote-kicking should be disabled all together.
Also, disable vote-kicking while a loot roll is active.
But then again, I stopped PuGging in February. I don't trust random internet strangers to not be complete dooshnozzles.
"...I grab my wiener and charge!" - ironzerg79
From my experience, all that is already the case. It just says "vote kicking not possible right now".
Good gods! I'll kick you next time then! "too low" or "sdsdsdsds"! Those are the most common reasons I saw!
Seriously, not pugging when the chance to get that item you want is like 0.01% is just not reasonable for me. Now waiting for leaver penalties!
This is a good idea. Justifying a 'vote kick' for X reason is bull****. There is NEVER a reason to kick someone out of a party. NEVER... if you don't like the part... you leave.
We were doing a guild run, minus a Tank, through eCC... and our SW dc'd and had to restart his computer. We know because he was on RC with another guild member... who was in the party. Anyways... the PuG Tank decided to put in a vote kick as soon as he was dc'd. Considering the way the game has been... that was a rather ****ty thing to do. Clearly he did not notice that we were all in the same guild.
Anyways it turned out to be a good run.
Instead of trying to have others do you heavy lifting... and then kicking them out. Make your own group instead of stealing someone else's group.
Yeah I definitely hear that. Its hard to find a pug group that will stick it out, or not chew through 8 people trying to achieve. Leaver penalties would be detrimental though as sometimes the group structure is just never going to work. Unfortunately it means making parties before you head in, which will render the queue system void. I can also see people wanting to inspect party members before any dungeon which is going to kill it for the little guy.
That's always been the case. People premake because they have a certain standard that excludes the little guys. This change will protect the little guy in the queue system. This is a greate, though long overdue, change. The only people complaining are the ones who complains about everything, and the abuser who now lost some power and will now have to finish more dungeons with a less than optimal group.
A TR in CA is one of the heaviest hitters in the guild. That is saying a lot since we have a couple of gut-wrenching GWFs. one insane SW and several face-melting and atom-bombing CWs. Each of these, save the GWFs, have much higher iLvls than the TR in question. I have not seen him head to head with a CW or the GWFs, but he spanked the SW.
His iLvl... is just over 2.4k, and he spends no RL money on this game. The casters all have iLvls over 3.2k.
The quality of the killer is not on how purple/yellow/blue their sword is, it is based on how well they can use it.
Yes... that is a double entendre... but the facts are the facts. iLvl shows nothing but willingness to spend money on your toons.
Imagine how much crow you will have to eat when a f2p player kicks your butt in "Paingiver".
There's nothing more disheartening as a new player than getting enough gear to enter the 1600 bracket, only to get insta-kicked without a word.
What's the best entry point to 1600 content, i.e. where gear difference will be felt the least and nerd rage at the changes will be at a minimum?
It's probably going to be much worse than that. Wait until people realize when that same person counts as a tick toward the replenishment count each time and you no longer get 'any' people to join even though it was the same person over again. lol
This have will have the biggest impact on low-mid geared players, because those might have harder time getting in to smooth runs and PUGing with all the itemlvl cheaters will be nightmare.
^^ This exactly!!! There should be mechanics at play to determine the afk'ers. That control should have never been in the hands of another player!!! Too many players learning their own mechanics are being kicked thus not allowing them to gain the experience needed. I agree 1000% the votekick system should be completely removed.
If someone wants to have an issue with me because I initiated a vote to kick them from a party, then there is the very simple process of placing them on ignore.
If you aren't prepared to take responsibility for your actions then obviously you have something to hide.
10char
Form your own group and stop worrying about getting kicked. If you randomly join a group through the queue process then you'll be susceptible to many different situations -- being kicked out is one of those situations.
Nonetheless, there's a new update to the queue system on today's patch.
.........
Thank you, Ed.
Ooops......was I thinkin out loud again?!?
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I agree with this 100%.
Sekhmet@kvetchus_
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