test content
Logo
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc
Vote Kicking Feedback Thread (PC)
radome
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
Heyo,
not sure where to post this but I'm trying here.
I know all about this controversy between needing and greeding during greed runs and alike. But still, I am new to the game, and was running with a friend. We queued up for dungeon and noticed very quickly a guy in the party was really strong. Got gear score around 18k, which is a lot compared to ours around 10k.
So, we are gearing up, while running pug runs during dungeon delves. I know gearing feels pointless right now, but still.
So, I needed on a thing. And got vote-kicked out in the blink of an eye. The other people in party were as clueless as me and my friend, but I guess they clicked yes anyway. Worthy to mention, everyone had been needing everything before, this run and runs before, always everyone needs epics in pug runs. And this item was an obvious upgrade for me.
But yeah. I got kicked. Because I needed an item I needed because it was better than what I had.
I mean come on, pug run, no one cares there. I can understand getting kicked if I was running a greed run, but we weren't.
Is this really how things work? I'm not upset, I just can't wrap my head around what happened.
not sure where to post this but I'm trying here.
I know all about this controversy between needing and greeding during greed runs and alike. But still, I am new to the game, and was running with a friend. We queued up for dungeon and noticed very quickly a guy in the party was really strong. Got gear score around 18k, which is a lot compared to ours around 10k.
So, we are gearing up, while running pug runs during dungeon delves. I know gearing feels pointless right now, but still.
So, I needed on a thing. And got vote-kicked out in the blink of an eye. The other people in party were as clueless as me and my friend, but I guess they clicked yes anyway. Worthy to mention, everyone had been needing everything before, this run and runs before, always everyone needs epics in pug runs. And this item was an obvious upgrade for me.
But yeah. I got kicked. Because I needed an item I needed because it was better than what I had.
I mean come on, pug run, no one cares there. I can understand getting kicked if I was running a greed run, but we weren't.
Is this really how things work? I'm not upset, I just can't wrap my head around what happened.
Post edited by radome on
0
Comments
people arent going to babysitting you, they are playing for a reason: the drop.
give everyone the same chance or play with friends willing to give stuffs for free.
You mean to say, people here really really gear up by greeding only? I don't belive that.
This is pretty much a flame topic .. so no matter which side of the fence you are on the strong opinions and tempers are there ...
People run dungeons for gear plain and simple .. they added DD chest to increase the chances that YOU specifically will definitly get your gear ... I did not play prior to this so I don't know what the culture was at the time ... but GREED is the winning factor in this game and it seems all others ...
The point is you run you might get your class drop you might not ... if someone does they need if more than 1 class is there its a roll be tween them ... if the winner doesn't use it then they sell it like anyone else would someone buys it who doesn't want to run dungeons for it and everyone walks away with what they want ...
However the culture/mentality is a whinny bunch of greedy people and yes they are .. cause they think they are entitled a roll just because they are they despite the fact that they may run this 10 times and get half the drops for their class .... so the thought is EVERYONE must greed because so that EVERYONE allegedly has a shot at getting a piece they need/want ... however this ruins equality in the fact that people who can't even use it will sell it for profit and somoene who is RNG unlucky may never get what they want ... frankly they will get told to go buy it from AH so YOU hard working player can fatten someone elses wallet.
Somewhere someone is going to play economics major and claim the benefits of economy yada yada yada ... but truth be told ... if people actually played as intended there would probably be more equal distribution of wealth ... from what I can tell is people get very streaky RNG luck and they can win the loot rolls on most of the loot in a run .. .think they wanna share or split? Odds are if they are on that streak and doing multiple dungeons they are getting MORE than their FAIR share of loot.
If you want fair the game should lock the loot results in round robin mode and make it so if you won a loot roll you don't win the next one until everyone else has won something ... it sure would make people think twice about picking something up or picking greed on something and winning some blue item and losing out on purple drop next lol. Yeah yeah all you nay sayers out there ... I never expect this to happen but in my mind I think it would be funny ...
Truth be told just about all games are this way ... its the greedy entitled nature that the vast majority of human beings have that wins and is shown in online games ... so its best to go with teh flow and do as other say and just greed on something ... hopefully you will one day win something of value to trade or sell and buy off AH ... Personally it pisses me off when people say "buy it off AH" .. I run content to get it as intended as a drop ...
My view of the AH is that its a way people who got lucky could give to people not so lucky or if you got lucky with something you didn't need you could effectively trade it for things you did need .... but reality is ... AH is for profit and to make as much AD as you can so you aren't limited to your 24k/ad refining cap ... because the reality is playing this game and relying on your 24k refning cap would make you play this game for a year before you saw purple companions and high end enchants ... that doesnt' even account for coalescent wards that you can barely ever get now unless you buy them off the zen market (wait for a sale is all i can say) or off AH which is usually inflated higher than 500:1 zen exchange or just hope you are lucky and get one from praying but from what it looks like on MOD 6 you won't be much of a chance to do that either.
So if you run a dungeon ... greed ... or wait and see if the first person needs or greeds ... if the first person greeds you greed if they need then you need ... safest bet ... but don't wait til the last loot roll you might still get kicked for possibly attempting to ninja loot lol.
Some of the needs you see in a dungeon are usually on blue or green items ... every group is different so when in doubt watch the roll or just ask.
There is quite obvious difference between farm runs and gearing up runs. If no one said anything up front, you cant expect a person to let that one piece of gear that he needs slip away on a roll of a dice. It is natural to click "Need" on a piece that you actually need and will help you out in future.
If party was formed in PE, when someone shouted "greed run" or whatever, then ofc person needing should be kicked out. But if its a PUG party, during dungeon delve, and drop actually matters to a player that can Need on it, ie, replacing blue with epic, kicking out is not justified.
I realize the rules, at least now, properly. And I don't mind being kicked. I just wanted to know why. And what you guys said have given me perspective, and I thank you for that.
But I still think this need/greed system is not so thought through in that case.
What also helps is to keep something of equal salvage value in your pack (some T1 armor piece you do not need in T1 dungeons or GG Fardelver, e.g.), to offer to whoever doesn't come across when you want to need. And to determine who should get the piece, one can pick up some green thing and roll for that, winner then gets the replacement prize. Often enough you can also trade that replacement loot item with the winner after greeding.
THIS IS THE BEST YOU CAN DO. and still every 100 runs even doing this, expect 1 ninja. and 20 people accidentally clicking need.
Fox Stevenson - Sandblast
Oh Wonder - Without You
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
- Dylan Thomas
the only reason a 18k GS char goes there is the BOE-loot that drops, so if u want to gear up, buy things in the ah, its so cheap, nearly for free, normally all runs are greed runs for epique drops
running any instance having no gear, btw where did u go t2 dungeon, 10 k GS is ok but mostly far to low to go there?
so you queue and assume the mates will first do the job for you and in the end you can loot the stuff that shows up, everyone went in for? You could ask for the loot thats all, not more.
find people for need-runs or guild members or go farm 5k ad and buy T2 stuff in the AH, goes much faster
I was kicked the other day, not for picking need but because I questioned it. Somebody picked need and then somebody else wanted to kick him, the vote was always no but was endlessly spamming the kick option, eventually I asked him to stop, then I stated that nobody said greed upfront and that this unwritten rule is not something that everyone agrees to obey, I got no response. Right after the final boss battle I was kicked, why they kicked me but not the person who picked need still confuses me, they must have thought that this was the form of punishment for having the audacity to question a rule that they unquestionably (every time I want to question this greed law, I get no response).
Unlike you, I was upset, and I can't wrap my head around the fact that they created this stupid need/greed system. If they wanted to create a system that will create anger and bring out the worst, then this need/greed (and kicking after the boss battle) is definitely the best way of doing it. One would think that it would be simple to implement a need only or greed only dungeon option.
I totally agree with you. This whole system at the moment is creating too much anger and hatred. There must be some better way to do it and calm the community down. Yes I am aware "unwritten rule" or whatever, but honestly I find it sort of dumb. And as I started this thread I also notice, as in other threads about this issue as well, no one really are on the same page.
And to all others who are saying just greed purples etc. I would, totally. But the thing is, most people I run into when queuing up, they need on purples as well. It's only the people with high gear score that are creating a fuzz, all because of cash.
It doesn't look like the kicking is that big a problem now as loot is more often like 10k-ish.
There are 2 methods that would eliminate all this in-fighting:
1. Make a copy of all drops granted to each player.
2. Have items drop round-robin, without any specific prompts or pop-ups.
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
...when everybody greeds as agreed, everybody's chances are 100% / # of players. So some people think that reducing the denominator (by kicking ppl after the work is done) also increases their chances - which it actually does, unless a third person...
...well, you get the picture. One more reason against PUGging in longer dungeons. The slightly more decent ones let you have your go at the boss chest first. I suspect or wish to hope that there is some history of covert admn action that has led to this minimal insight. Morale: Boss dead => first thing: grab chest.
All else is like in real life - or do you think the housing bubble thing has been fed by honest brokering?
You can note down everybody's player handles. Or PM all players from the party and see who responds, then ignore those the weren't kicked like you (they might be lying, though). This doesn't prevent your getting into parties with them, but whenever you send a pm to them you'll get a note that they're on your ignore list, which can be used as a reminder and is an easily checked thing during the early phases of any PUG run - just msg everybody with "." or something.
Best way to avoid this, though, is to run with guildies and friends only...
second of all, don't exepct any act of kindness/consideration out of pugs. people are there for the loot, not for any other reason. strong players or not, i would have kicked you just the same if only for not respecting common community rules.
second day in my guild we ran FH, i needed on an AOW piece (at the time said piece was 500k on the ah), and the amount of cluster**** i've gotten upon my head was unimaginable. i of course did not know any better, but i deserved it. it was a learning experience. move on, it's all shiny and awesome~
The Holy Crusaders guild leader ♚ Mod 10 PVE Destroyer GWF guide ♚ Founding member of the Relentless Alliance
Here's a better idea: Do not play Pugs.
People aren't willing to drop $50+ in Zen to gear up just so they can join a run. You agree to certain risks by default when you run a dungeon, especially with pugs. Sometimes you clear CN and get 0 drops. Sometimes you get 10+. That's an inherent risk associated with partying.
Playing with a premade negates this risk. Not to mention some people actually do need the gear.
Then again, this is Neverwinter. Where people with 500k+ GS run GWD for 2k AD drops and kick everyone who actually needs the gear.
Because that's how smart people work.
Go Cryptic!
PS - I quit.
When you need the gear, like need it. Then you should be able to get it if you want, right? Because honestly, what's the fun in buying stuff from AH? I honestly think people who need the gear have priority over people who just want AD.
Also, I don't expect people to "babysit" me. I do decent amount of damage at the same time as buffing and keeping mobs away from the party. Not everyone is running just as dps and ninja'ing loot, there are real people behind with real reasonings
How do you tell if someone genuinely "needs" an item? Why should you have any more right to an item than the rest of your teammates? The only rule, really, should be that you work things out with your team, come to an agreement, then stick to whatever loot distribution method has been agreed upon.
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
And as others have already mentioned here, people don't just simply kick because they are doing the dungeons for AD, they do because of these so called "community rules" (you got any statistics which detail what the players preferences are ?). I think there are many out there that simply love to kick people, hiding behind this greed moral excuse just makes it easier to do so.
Also this is exactly why badge gear, and personal loot was invented...perhaps we need that at end game just to keep things flowing?
In a perfect world, the system set up in the game would be great.
Need = The item is an upgrade to the currently equipped piece of the class being played, making that person stronger and able to contribute more to the group running at that moment and increase their success rate.
Greed = The item is an upgrade for an alt [who is not part of the current group so not contributing their success.] or the item is just going to be sold.
Unfortunately, we don't live in a perfect world and human greed and self entitlement comes into the picture. The community might think as a whole it has it's unwritten rule, but I encounter more people that don't know about it then those that do. Out of the games I play with Need/Geed/Pass, this is the only one this vile and hostile about it.
While the old days of camping a mob for 18 hours for one drop between 20-30+ people had it's own issues, at least people where patient and willing to accept that not everyone gets a medal or trophy for being there, and there was a huge chance of walking away empty handed from losing a roll or that the BoP item wasn't even useful to you.
/mini-rant.
The community as a whole in this game is one of the worst I've seen, find a group of people you get along with to queue for DD. Either group of friends, a guild, or the legit channel.
It's fun not to buy everything, it's fun to see what drops you get. As it is a part of the game and the experience. Just buying the gear you're looking for just isn't fun.
You can think that all you want, but that's not reality in Neverwinter. In Neverwinter most people play dungeons for one reason: to acquire purple items to sell on the AH or to salvage for AD. It doesn't matter what class the item is designed for. All players in the group did equal work to complete the dungeon and should have equal chances at winning the bosses loot. Only one major item usually drops. And you have the mistaken idea that you should get to need on it because it's for your class? That means no one else can win it because they cannot need on something that isn't their class. You have missed the point since the first post of this thread, and after several pages you still don't seem to get it.