Pvp should be optional alright but should be rewarding ! When i say rewarding i mean rewarding.
I dont care if some players do not enjoy it. Dont play it. Jist reward the people for doing it otherwise there will be no fun just wasted time.
And without pvp however i really want to see what you are supposed to do with strongholds...stables?? Beds where sleeping?? Fashion wardrobe?
Roleplaying?? Wow so much gameplay there.
It's not so much "What's in it for me?" as "What's in it for PVE?"
Well... if we get *really* lucky the PvP'er types will have better things to do than whine about each other/class imbalances/OP gear/the weather in Zone in a terribly butthurt manner.
Pvp should be optional alright but should be rewarding ! When i say rewarding i mean rewarding.
I dont care if some players do not enjoy it. Dont play it. Jist reward the people for doing it otherwise there will be no fun just wasted time.
And without pvp however i really want to see what you are supposed to do with strongholds...stables?? Beds where sleeping?? Fashion wardrobe?
Roleplaying?? Wow so much gameplay there.
Well...it would be fun to have a bunch of trolls or giants etc on the loose kinda like IWD when that Giant suddenly appears near the main road and everyone in the vicinity works together by choice to end the attack.
Well... if we get *really* lucky the PvP'er types will have better things to do than whine about each other/class imbalances/OP gear/the weather in Zone in a terribly butthurt manner.
Not exactly counting on it though.
Grin....cheers! i second that. But then again, my radionicly created vamp constructs specifically designed to siphon the throw off energy of all this whine will then have to be redesigned if this happens...sigh
Having an stronghold and then pve and pvp zones to control to get more resources can be fine.
PVP zones could give bonus for pvp matches. Then, if you like pvp, you do pvp zones, if you don't you don't. People who don't like pvp won't do it anyway whatever you put there. As much as i like to do pvp from time to time the only thing that prevent me to actually involve more is that there is not matchmaking and the gap between gearpower between non full pvp players and pvp players has been increased a lot -It is not a bad thing, if there is a ladder and ranks working properly. Making pvp obligatory will hardly encourage people to participate as long as they suffer their introduction to that part of the game.
A king of the hill like match could be fun if they actually put rewards for those who even loosing participate.
In the other hand, you don't need to be 24/7 watching if in pve you loose control of zones as time goes by, you just daily or weekly do encounters and quest to keep it. Puting more difficult zones, and i mean really difficult zones with nasty encounters, can be a great if there are different tiers of features or bonifications.
So, if you don't do your zones in weeks, after loosing several zones you can loose yourstronghold. That would work for me.
In anycase it is about taste, for me having to watch over stuff and worry about going out or watch a movie instead of playing the game is not fun.
karlorsacornMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 14Arc User
edited May 2015
I agree and have the same concerns. If it REQUIRES PVP to participate, it will fail. I did see some Ogers, so that is promising. Darn PVP'ers need to go play Quake. :P
I'm hoping the actual features read better than the teaser. Most of what I got from that is 'non-optional PvP if you're in a guild who wants to work on a project', and 'only PvP guilds will have nice things', but I hope I'm wrong.
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obsiddiaMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,025Arc User
edited May 2015
I'm hoping they at least add a lot of pve toys at the same time, so we
anti-socials get something out of the module.
And yeah, it would've been better when there were huge popular guilds around.
Now its fragmented and people make guilds of 2 by paying 3 people some gold.
Curious what does happen to the tiny guilds.
Guessing they just won't have the power to take anything back from the orcs.
Will want to see the Chocolate Shoppe's castle.
Did you really think anyone could steal the power of the god of thieves?
I do hope these Strongholds don't follow STO's philosophy which was unjust to smaller fleets/guilds.
yeah I agree. I actually quit star trek online because of fleets. I didn't want to be in any, I just wanted to do my own thing and on occasion do random queues. Eventually everyone just had better stuff and I didn't like being in fleets, I disliked playing with strangers. It's like going to a movie, they can be there in the audience but I only care about my ONE friend I brought with me. Same with going out to dinner or sex even!
I could do this with 1 or 2 other people but thats its, and those people barely log on because their jobs (they are both doctors) so it's tough for me (own my own business) so even with that we all don't have lots of hours to play. We play this like we'd play and other D&D product, now and then.
And t that other guy I don't play any game to have a social network, I don't even use facebook at all. I just play for my own pleasure. People are nice in MMOs as scenery at best. I already was forced into groups with people in life to do real dangerous work, I'm not looking to be forced into groups online to do easy work. I just want to play at my pace. I actually quit mmos (specifically *******s games) when they add a feature that you have to give in and pretend to like people to get by. I refuse.
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dragoness10Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 780Arc User
edited May 2015
As a suggestion to a few concerns on whom can aquire a Stronghold it was tossed around as an idea between people I know to require a guild to have at LEAST 10 members before you can aquire a Stronghold. This was suggested as a means to help eliminate "cheat guilds" that were only formed so ONE player can have a "second bank" via a guild bank. It was also suggested as a means to encourage people to be more social in larger guilds since this is an MMO.
This has pros and cons as a suggestion. Opinions?
" I tried to figure out the enigma that was you, and then I realized mastering Wild Magic was easier." - Old Wizard in Waterdeep
"Why is it dragons only use ketchup? I'd like a little wasabi please. Us silvers like a variety of condiments."
"Don't call them foolish mortals. One, they don't learn from it. Two, It just ticks them off." - An Ancient Red Dragon
Well, for the last 3 weeks I've been the only, and I mean ONLY consistently active member of my guild. we were small to begin with, but mod 6 and computer deaths pretty much have me running alone. I wonder if I'll be able to claim a stronghold and hold it solo...
Well, for the last 3 weeks I've been the only, and I mean ONLY consistently active member of my guild. we were small to begin with, but mod 6 and computer deaths pretty much have me running alone. I wonder if I'll be able to claim a stronghold and hold it solo...
I love love love this! Thank you Cryptic! This verywa was brought up months ago on the forums by the players as a wish. Whether this is devs giving us something we asked for or if it is unspoken synergy between the upgraded Dev team and the players, it is good stuff!
People worried about having a small or mainly absent guild- recruit! Bring some older guildies back to the game to win their guild stronghold and defend it!
People worried about the pvp- the PvP guilds will have to contend with pve elements as well. Would be wise for guilds to have both a strong pve and PvP component.
Would also be super cool if guilds and/or solo players could be contracted as mercenaries by guilds to help protect strongholds. So if your guild focuses pve it could hire a PvP guild or bunch of PvP players to defend or attack for it!
A diplomatic system would be sweet also: guilds could ally with each other for mutual defense or as simple non-agression treaties. So guilds would have a disposition with each other requiring both guilds to agree in order to change it. Example- neutral as the default and in order to attack each others stronghold would require both guilds agreeing to be hostile. Or at least making it so that to attack a guilds stronghold it has to have a hostile disposition to yours.
I can't kill that class, that class is over powered, please nerf that class...
PvP in this game is so wrong! It should be a searate stuff from the PvE content, maybe with some interchangeable gear from each other, but not same characters!
It should be diferent maps maybe called Arenas, with different versions of the classes from PvE... something like Battlefield Wizard, Gladiator, Holly Fighter...
We don't need balance between PvP and PvE, what looks OP in PvP can easily not be OP in PvE. Some people complain about being easily killed in PvP by some classes, but people forget that those players are, maybe (99% of chance), full geared with epic PvP sets and have all the PvP boons... so, yes, you will die like a sneal in a pot of salt...
The ability to turn PvP off completely would be good, if this expansion is about win or lose control of a keep then I'll find something else to do with my time. I don't PvP. If I wanted to PvP i'd go to the arena. If they make Keeps like starbases in STO then all fine and good - a base amount of land permanenetly held by the keep for resourcing would be nice - but if I have to constantly PvP to keep what I build then I really don't see the point as my Guild is small and we play only a few days a week. This would make it completely impossible and certainly not worth our wasted time to build a keep up only to have it stolen by a power PvP Guild.
>}--;--'--,----
LOVECAREHOPESUPPORTCOMMUNITYSHARINGPEACE
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rickcase276Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,404Arc User
edited May 2015
It was already stated in another thread that the PvP parts of the strongholds would be opt-in and consensual. Most everything to build and maintain the keeps will be by PvE, PvP will be used to enhance some things you acquire through PvE.
The hope I have is that the PvE aspects of the Mod are soloable, as I am the only active member in my guild.
This is an idea here. Implementation? HMM.....Icewind! The solution for this already exists in part.
If a Guild Stronghold is not participating in PvP then there is not a red light fence around it. Settings can be adjusted by Guild Leaders only (Rank 6). Passing through the outer areas of Guild Stronghold that WANT PvP will flag you for Open World PvP. It'd be a matter of being careful which areas you visited, but it's possible.
Get flagged = accept PvP.
Avoid being flagged = PvE only.
The problem with this approach is that it adds an extra layer of difficultly for maintenance for PVP players only - PVE players strongholds will be intrinsically better maintained and progressed as a result regardless of having put less work into it. This is assuming the resources required are available through PVE content and assuming that PVPer's will do what they've always done to get an edge and PVE for what they need when they need to.
Your idea is a compromise that like all compromises sounds fair except it isn't.
Edit: One of the difficulties with including PVE and PVP elements into one game is that making it optional somewhat defeats the purpose. IE if you made PVE rewards all available to people who PVP'ed and did no PVE content or vice versa you essentially end up with two very different games.
It's pretty unlikely that there's going to a huge map where there are thousands and thousands of guild castles dotting the countryside. Rather, more likely there will be a door or portal or map icon or whatever that leads you to your "Guild Stronghold" - it's the same icon for everyone, but when you go there you go to YOUR guild's stronghold, not someone else's.
The pvp, the way I see it anyway, could take a couple different tracks.
One, you get a premade guild team and queue for a stronghold assault PvP mission. Your team is matched with another guild's premade and you fight in a map with a couple smallish strongholds at either end (typical Quake, et al. style CtF-ish map). In any case, you're not really defending YOUR stronghold and you don't get to pick what guild you're attacking.
Two, the pvp is open-world pvp but there's a mechanic - maybe a guild faction-like thing - where you can pick to be at-war with another guild. That opens up a pathway for your guild to enter the other guild's territory. I'm a little fuzzy on how this might work, but clearly there are way too many guilds to just make each one accessible to everyone else, unless it's through a search feature or something.
In any case - how ever Cryptic implements this, I will be absolutely shocked if the result is that a guild can actually case material damage to another guild. Cryptic has never built a "setback" mechanic into it's games in any way, so I would be surprised if they implement anything that would cause one guild to be able to actually damage what another guild has built. You might be able to "plunder" another guild, but whatever you get from probably won't be taken from the guild you attacked - Cryptic has never made it's games that way, and my guess is they wouldn't be doing themselves any favors by changing that now.
dragoness10Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 780Arc User
edited May 2015
RE: merlinquarks1973
I'm sorry person. I didn't suggest PvP rewards for PvE and vice versa. You do have an intriguing slant of interpretation on what I suggested. I shall think on it more to see if I see your view.
I think very few guilds around here would frown on a player being in two or more guilds at once via differnt charecters. You could have a main in your smaller guild, and an alt in a bigger guild to fully expereince the new mod from both perspectives. Some guilds even have a Custom Channel, or there's other Custom Channels you can join so you have opportunities to participate with larger guilds, but not leave your own smaller one.
" I tried to figure out the enigma that was you, and then I realized mastering Wild Magic was easier." - Old Wizard in Waterdeep
"Why is it dragons only use ketchup? I'd like a little wasabi please. Us silvers like a variety of condiments."
"Don't call them foolish mortals. One, they don't learn from it. Two, It just ticks them off." - An Ancient Red Dragon
I'll be the naysayer here and say that it sounds completely uninteresting to me. "Guilds have been a cornerstone of Neverwinter since its inception", not really, couldn't disagree more actually. Not until PWE decided to make it an MMO. And, even then, Neverwinter was a VERY solo friendly game. Its what attracted a lot of your players that you are now working overtime to spurn. Also, I prefer, and actually run smaller guilds. You know, more like actual long-term friends in real life enjoying a game together; rather than the short-term acquaintances using each other for mutual advantage until there is no advantage and then "see ya later chump" situations that large guilds tend to be.
I agree with several others here that say the STO way of larger guilds that PvP a lot having all the nice things is not the way to go here. All you'll end up with is larger well established guilds starting to charge their members AD per week to remain members. Don't laugh. It will happen if the goodies tied to the Strongholds are nice enough.
Also, stongholds, in original D&D were a per character based concept, not necessarily a "party" or "group" based concept. So, it would be nice is a small group of players or even a single player (remember them, yeah the guys you have been working overtime to alienate the last couple mods) could get something out of this as well. After all, the game is already divided, quite bitterly, between the "haves" and the "have nots." I.E. Those who can afford to buy their gear, and those who can't. There is no use making that feeling worse with an entire new module actually DESIGNED to make that feeling worse.
So, the main two points to take away from my post are these: Make sure that their is something MEANINGFUL there for everyone of every style of play. And, make SURE you take your time and do it RIGHT. You guys have been overloading your resources and ability to deliver quality content of late. It is showing. Badly. The community would much rather wait for content done right, than rushed content that breaks the game like mod 6 did.
Just my .02 AD. Hope you guys listen.
Peace.
Telling us about upcoming content updates, and getting those updates out the door BUG-FREE, is *AWESOME*!! Know what's even *MORE* awesome? Fixing game breaking bugs (and/or undocumented "features") that have been in EXISTING content for months/years!!! Guess which one makes me want to spend money on a game much more than the other? Hint: It's the "more awesome" one.
i hope they don't have us fight each other over land cuz that going to end badly for most people. Most pvp players not all but most of them buy their good enchantments and stones from gold hackers and that's bs. the rest of us work our asses off whenever we can to get the good stones and enchantments but all they have to do is whip their wallet for some gold hackers and get it the easy way without working for it the whole thing is screwed up
Comments
Yes indeed...us PVE'ers beam with glee lol mooooooo
When is the summer?? i mean which month?
I dont care if some players do not enjoy it. Dont play it. Jist reward the people for doing it otherwise there will be no fun just wasted time.
And without pvp however i really want to see what you are supposed to do with strongholds...stables?? Beds where sleeping?? Fashion wardrobe?
Roleplaying?? Wow so much gameplay there.
Well... if we get *really* lucky the PvP'er types will have better things to do than whine about each other/class imbalances/OP gear/the weather in Zone in a terribly butthurt manner.
Not exactly counting on it though.
Well...it would be fun to have a bunch of trolls or giants etc on the loose kinda like IWD when that Giant suddenly appears near the main road and everyone in the vicinity works together by choice to end the attack.
Grin....cheers! i second that. But then again, my radionicly created vamp constructs specifically designed to siphon the throw off energy of all this whine will then have to be redesigned if this happens...sigh
PVP zones could give bonus for pvp matches. Then, if you like pvp, you do pvp zones, if you don't you don't. People who don't like pvp won't do it anyway whatever you put there. As much as i like to do pvp from time to time the only thing that prevent me to actually involve more is that there is not matchmaking and the gap between gearpower between non full pvp players and pvp players has been increased a lot -It is not a bad thing, if there is a ladder and ranks working properly. Making pvp obligatory will hardly encourage people to participate as long as they suffer their introduction to that part of the game.
A king of the hill like match could be fun if they actually put rewards for those who even loosing participate.
In the other hand, you don't need to be 24/7 watching if in pve you loose control of zones as time goes by, you just daily or weekly do encounters and quest to keep it. Puting more difficult zones, and i mean really difficult zones with nasty encounters, can be a great if there are different tiers of features or bonifications.
So, if you don't do your zones in weeks, after loosing several zones you can loose yourstronghold. That would work for me.
In anycase it is about taste, for me having to watch over stuff and worry about going out or watch a movie instead of playing the game is not fun.
Looks like it will have a mix of PvE and PvP.
anti-socials get something out of the module.
And yeah, it would've been better when there were huge popular guilds around.
Now its fragmented and people make guilds of 2 by paying 3 people some gold.
Curious what does happen to the tiny guilds.
Guessing they just won't have the power to take anything back from the orcs.
Will want to see the Chocolate Shoppe's castle.
yeah I agree. I actually quit star trek online because of fleets. I didn't want to be in any, I just wanted to do my own thing and on occasion do random queues. Eventually everyone just had better stuff and I didn't like being in fleets, I disliked playing with strangers. It's like going to a movie, they can be there in the audience but I only care about my ONE friend I brought with me. Same with going out to dinner or sex even!
I could do this with 1 or 2 other people but thats its, and those people barely log on because their jobs (they are both doctors) so it's tough for me (own my own business) so even with that we all don't have lots of hours to play. We play this like we'd play and other D&D product, now and then.
And t that other guy I don't play any game to have a social network, I don't even use facebook at all. I just play for my own pleasure. People are nice in MMOs as scenery at best. I already was forced into groups with people in life to do real dangerous work, I'm not looking to be forced into groups online to do easy work. I just want to play at my pace. I actually quit mmos (specifically *******s games) when they add a feature that you have to give in and pretend to like people to get by. I refuse.
This has pros and cons as a suggestion. Opinions?
"Why is it dragons only use ketchup? I'd like a little wasabi please. Us silvers like a variety of condiments."
"Don't call them foolish mortals. One, they don't learn from it. Two, It just ticks them off." - An Ancient Red Dragon
Roll a paladin you should be ok
People worried about having a small or mainly absent guild- recruit! Bring some older guildies back to the game to win their guild stronghold and defend it!
People worried about the pvp- the PvP guilds will have to contend with pve elements as well. Would be wise for guilds to have both a strong pve and PvP component.
Would also be super cool if guilds and/or solo players could be contracted as mercenaries by guilds to help protect strongholds. So if your guild focuses pve it could hire a PvP guild or bunch of PvP players to defend or attack for it!
A diplomatic system would be sweet also: guilds could ally with each other for mutual defense or as simple non-agression treaties. So guilds would have a disposition with each other requiring both guilds to agree in order to change it. Example- neutral as the default and in order to attack each others stronghold would require both guilds agreeing to be hostile. Or at least making it so that to attack a guilds stronghold it has to have a hostile disposition to yours.
I already can see an avalanche of PvP whiners....
I can't kill that class, that class is over powered, please nerf that class...
PvP in this game is so wrong! It should be a searate stuff from the PvE content, maybe with some interchangeable gear from each other, but not same characters!
It should be diferent maps maybe called Arenas, with different versions of the classes from PvE... something like Battlefield Wizard, Gladiator, Holly Fighter...
We don't need balance between PvP and PvE, what looks OP in PvP can easily not be OP in PvE. Some people complain about being easily killed in PvP by some classes, but people forget that those players are, maybe (99% of chance), full geared with epic PvP sets and have all the PvP boons... so, yes, you will die like a sneal in a pot of salt...
I foresee a storm....
The hope I have is that the PvE aspects of the Mod are soloable, as I am the only active member in my guild.
The problem with this approach is that it adds an extra layer of difficultly for maintenance for PVP players only - PVE players strongholds will be intrinsically better maintained and progressed as a result regardless of having put less work into it. This is assuming the resources required are available through PVE content and assuming that PVPer's will do what they've always done to get an edge and PVE for what they need when they need to.
Your idea is a compromise that like all compromises sounds fair except it isn't.
Edit: One of the difficulties with including PVE and PVP elements into one game is that making it optional somewhat defeats the purpose. IE if you made PVE rewards all available to people who PVP'ed and did no PVE content or vice versa you essentially end up with two very different games.
The pvp, the way I see it anyway, could take a couple different tracks.
One, you get a premade guild team and queue for a stronghold assault PvP mission. Your team is matched with another guild's premade and you fight in a map with a couple smallish strongholds at either end (typical Quake, et al. style CtF-ish map). In any case, you're not really defending YOUR stronghold and you don't get to pick what guild you're attacking.
Two, the pvp is open-world pvp but there's a mechanic - maybe a guild faction-like thing - where you can pick to be at-war with another guild. That opens up a pathway for your guild to enter the other guild's territory. I'm a little fuzzy on how this might work, but clearly there are way too many guilds to just make each one accessible to everyone else, unless it's through a search feature or something.
In any case - how ever Cryptic implements this, I will be absolutely shocked if the result is that a guild can actually case material damage to another guild. Cryptic has never built a "setback" mechanic into it's games in any way, so I would be surprised if they implement anything that would cause one guild to be able to actually damage what another guild has built. You might be able to "plunder" another guild, but whatever you get from probably won't be taken from the guild you attacked - Cryptic has never made it's games that way, and my guess is they wouldn't be doing themselves any favors by changing that now.
Sekhmet@kvetchus_
Guilds: Greycloaks, Blackcloaks, Whitecloaks, Goldcloaks, Browncloaks, Spiritcloaks, Bluecloaks, Silvercloaks, Black Dawn
Tredecim: The Cloak Alliance
I'm sorry person. I didn't suggest PvP rewards for PvE and vice versa. You do have an intriguing slant of interpretation on what I suggested. I shall think on it more to see if I see your view.
I think very few guilds around here would frown on a player being in two or more guilds at once via differnt charecters. You could have a main in your smaller guild, and an alt in a bigger guild to fully expereince the new mod from both perspectives. Some guilds even have a Custom Channel, or there's other Custom Channels you can join so you have opportunities to participate with larger guilds, but not leave your own smaller one.
"Why is it dragons only use ketchup? I'd like a little wasabi please. Us silvers like a variety of condiments."
"Don't call them foolish mortals. One, they don't learn from it. Two, It just ticks them off." - An Ancient Red Dragon
I agree with several others here that say the STO way of larger guilds that PvP a lot having all the nice things is not the way to go here. All you'll end up with is larger well established guilds starting to charge their members AD per week to remain members. Don't laugh. It will happen if the goodies tied to the Strongholds are nice enough.
Also, stongholds, in original D&D were a per character based concept, not necessarily a "party" or "group" based concept. So, it would be nice is a small group of players or even a single player (remember them, yeah the guys you have been working overtime to alienate the last couple mods) could get something out of this as well. After all, the game is already divided, quite bitterly, between the "haves" and the "have nots." I.E. Those who can afford to buy their gear, and those who can't. There is no use making that feeling worse with an entire new module actually DESIGNED to make that feeling worse.
So, the main two points to take away from my post are these: Make sure that their is something MEANINGFUL there for everyone of every style of play. And, make SURE you take your time and do it RIGHT. You guys have been overloading your resources and ability to deliver quality content of late. It is showing. Badly. The community would much rather wait for content done right, than rushed content that breaks the game like mod 6 did.
Just my .02 AD. Hope you guys listen.
Peace.