And that is why many people find the class annoying. I'd have less problems with monks as a class if people actually played them as monks. You know, spiritual, introspective, harmonious. Instead it seems they become an excuse to play macho industructable flying men with magic fists that can punch through steel and knockout dragons. It's like millions of childeran playing Naruto because that's what they think Ninjas should be like.
To be fair though, all classes are often played that way in mmos. You just need to have a 'childeran' behind the wheel. Many don't play any class lore appropriot.
0
zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
Pscions are NOT spell casters. Powers of the mind are not directly related to The Weave. I wanted to make sure there was a note on that here.
Did someone say they were? They tap into the Psiweave. There's three weaves, the Timestream, the Weave of Magic, and the Psiweave. Mystra controls the first two and *is* the second. Shar keeps trying to make her Shadoweave, but the Weave of Magic restricts that to her divine power only.
Did someone say they were? They tap into the Psiweave. There's three weaves, the Timestream, the Weave of Magic, and the Psiweave. Mystra controls the first two and *is* the second.
Wait, when did that happen? I don't remember the reveal of either of the other two. Admittedly, I've ignored all lore once I found out they killed of Eilistraee and the Midnight version Mystra was killed off. (Yes I am way behind)
To be fair though, all classes are often played that way in mmos. You just need to have a 'childeran' behind the wheel. Many don't play any class lore appropriot.
Now granted, I'm being a little facetious with all this. But I still believe that the class somehow is the problem. Ive played table-top games where otherwise reasonably intelligent people suddenly were reduced to drooling mouth breathers when playing a monk. Every solution to every problem simply was reduced to "Punch it in the face"
GM: "Its a black pudding, it has no face"
Player: "Ill draw a face on it with a stick, then punch that!"
I can forgive the barbarians, being mindless is a long honored trope for them. I'm just not sure where monks went wrong. It reminds me of old Shadowrun campaigns where you could simply count on the Street Samurai doing something stupid enough to kill off the entire party. I see monks pretty much the same way.
Now granted, I'm being a little facetious with all this. But I still believe that the class somehow is the problem. Ive played table-top games where otherwise reasonably intelligent people suddenly were reduced to drooling mouth breathers when playing a monk. Every solution to every problem simply was reduced to "Punch it in the face"
GM: "Its a black pudding, it has no face"
Player: "Ill draw a face on it with a stick, then punch that!"
I can forgive the barbarians, being mindless is a long honored trope for them. I'm just not sure where monks went wrong. It reminds me of old Shadowrun campaigns where you could simply count on the Street Samurai doing something stupid enough to kill off the entire party. I see monks pretty much the same way.
I get ya. I made a 'Billy Jack' clone in champs online. A couple of players even recognized him. But the 'monk' (MA) skills were way obnoxious for him. He was still pretty cool though.
"I'm gonna take this right foot, and I'm gonna whop you on that side of your face... and you wanna know something? There's not a **** thing you're gonna be able to do about it." - Billy Jack
Now granted, I'm being a little facetious with all this. But I still believe that the class somehow is the problem. Ive played table-top games where otherwise reasonably intelligent people suddenly were reduced to drooling mouth breathers when playing a monk. Every solution to every problem simply was reduced to "Punch it in the face"
GM: "Its a black pudding, it has no face"
Player: "Ill draw a face on it with a stick, then punch that!"
I can forgive the barbarians, being mindless is a long honored trope for them. I'm just not sure where monks went wrong. It reminds me of old Shadowrun campaigns where you could simply count on the Street Samurai doing something stupid enough to kill off the entire party. I see monks pretty much the same way.
Throk hit it with axe. If it no die, Throk get bigger axe. Hulk Smash Rawr.
I love barbs.
0
zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
Wait, when did that happen? I don't remember the reveal of either of the other two. Admittedly, I've ignored all lore once I found out they killed of Eilistraee and the Midnight version Mystra was killed off. (Yes I am way behind)
The Timestream and Psiweave have always been there. As Mystryl (her first incarnation) she controlled both the Timestream and the Weave of Magic. Ilsensine and other psionic deities tapped into the Psiweave, but source material never never mentioned if any deity had supreme control over it like Mystra did hers. From the period after her rebirth as the first incarnation to bear the name "Mystra" and on until 5th edition, there's no mention why her domain over Time was stricken from source material. Yet, in novels she seemed to alway still have some control over time, as did some of her Chosens and Magisters. Now in 5th Edition, Mystra is reborn again and is clearly listed in source material as governing Time once again.
The worlds within the D&D multiverse are magical places. All existence is suffused with magical power, and potential energy lies untapped in every rock, stream, and living creature, and even in the air itself. Raw magic is the stuff of creation, the mute and mindless will of existence, permeating every bit of matter and present in every manifestation of energy throughout the multiverse.
Mortals can’t directly shape this raw magic. Instead, they make use of a fabric of magic, a kind of interface between the will of a spellcaster and the stuf of raw magic. The spellcasters of the Forgotten Realms call it the Weave and recognize its essence as the goddess Mystra, but casters have varied ways of naming and visualizing this interface.
By any name, without the Weave, raw magic is locked away and inaccessible; the most powerful archmage can’t light a candle with magic in an area where the Weave has been torn. But surrounded by the Weave, a spellcaster can shape lightning to blast foes, transport hundreds of miles in the blink of an eye, or even reverse death itself.
All magic depends on the Weave, though different kinds of magic access it in a variety of ways. The spells of wizards, warlocks, sorcerers, and bards are commonly called arcane magic. These spells rely on an understanding—learned or intuitive—of the workings of the Weave. The caster plucks directly at the strands of the Weave to create the desired effect. Eldritch knights and arcane tricksters also use arcane magic. The spells of clerics, druids, paladins, and rangers are called divine magic. These spellcasters’ access to the Weave is mediated by divine power—gods, the divine forces of nature, or the sacred weight of a paladin’s oath.
Whenever a magic effect is created, the threads of the Weave intertwine, twist, and fold to make the effect possible. When characters use divination spells such as detect magic or identify, they glimpse the Weave. A spell such as dispel magic smooths the Weave. Spells such as antimagic field rearrange the Weave so that magic flows around, rather than through, the area affected by the spell. And in places where the Weave is damaged or torn, magic works in unpredictable ways—or not at all.
The mentions of the Psiweave are somewhere in one of the many source materials on the Illithid and Ilsensine. The Timestream is mentioned in either the source material for the Arcane Age (when Mystra was Mystryl) or in one of the Arcane Age novels, I cannot remember.
Eilistrase was indeed slain while she inhabited the body of her and Mystra's Chosen, Qilué Veladorn. She was sent reeling to the Astral Plane as an inanimate "dead" god, however Corellon Larethian (her father) intercepted her astral form because she sacrificed herself for her beloved good drow. Corellon took his daughter's essence into himself and then lifted the curse on all Good Drow that were truly faithful to Eilistrasee at the time of her sacrifice. Corellon, as the God of All Elves, has the power to restore her. This brought these good drow back to a state before their race was cursed by Corellon, in effect populating the world with the original Dark Elves (Ssri-tel-quessir) once again. So we may see Eilistrasee once again, since her essence resides within Corellon Larethian.
Eilistrasee is currently not listed in the 5th edition deities. I'll be updating my Grimoire of Time today or tomorrow to reflect the 5th Edition deities and lore. However, scroll down to the Sundering entries at the bottom for a "Prophet Style" overview of the Three Sunderings.
Paladin been waiting since launch real excited for it; I'm really interested in the way the devs plan to go about it and I always love paladins in almost every game.
For my vote sword mage because of the same interest and it would be pretty cool to fight and weave magic at the same time I'm curious as to how that would play out.
0
alienmafiaMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 19Arc User
There is no "necromancer" in dnd that I'm aware of. The closest is a palemaster, which is just a variety of wizard (I think evil clerics can be them too, not sure) that specialized in necromancy spells.
Thanks. First DnD based game played
I want those then :P. Whatever is the closest to a Necromancy type character
0
zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
I want those then :P. Whatever is the closest to a Necromancy type character
He is correct, in a "class" sense. However, in 5th edition D&D, Necromancy itself is an arcane art, not divine. Necromancy is a school of magic that a wizard can specialize in, thus becoming a "Necromancer." They can do this in 5th edition upon reaching level 2 and choosing an Arcane Tradition in the Necromancy School. From then on, they may call themselves Necromancers but are actually just a Wizard that is Specialized in the School of Necromancy. The same is true for earlier editions too, where you had to choose to specialize in Necromancy in order to *be* a Necromancer.
Clerics cannot be necromancers. They can pretend a semblance of such by worshipping a god who's domain is Death however.
As for Neverwinter Online, a Necromancer Wizard Class could very well be implemented for such would fit in how they interpret the 4th and now 5th edition classes to work in this particular MMORPG.
With that in mind, next time we make a new Class Poll thread, I'll first inquire with Cryptic about Necromancy and see if they think we should add Necromancer as a class choice in the new poll. For now, choose "Other" and post a reply that details one's desire for a Necromancer Wizard.
I want those then :P. Whatever is the closest to a Necromancy type character
In playstyle to d2's necromancer it would be some kind of summoner, which I think is a conjuration spell iirc. However I don't think that playstyle would work well here based on the ai of the companions and SW pet. The ai is very poor and the attacks are in general not high enough in damage to be worthwhile.
As far as a true necromancy focused class this is from zeb
In 5th edition D&D, clerics cannot be necromancers. They can pretend a semblance of such by choosing a god who's domain is Death. Necromancy itself however is an arcane art, not divine. Necromancy is a school of magic that a mage can specialize in, thus becoming a "Necromancer." They can do this in 5th edition upon reaching level 2 and choosing an Arcane Tradition in the Necromancy School.
To me this means that any necromancy themes would be better handled by adding another paragon path to the CW, mechanically that would just probably fit best imo for this game.
edit* zeb beat me but I'm leaving up my opinion of how necromancy should be added with another paragon path.
0
zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
To me this means that any necromancy themes would be better handled by adding another paragon path to the CW, mechanically that would just probably fit best imo for this game.
edit* zeb beat me but I'm leaving up my opinion of how necromancy should be added with another paragon path.
Yeah, I agree. I'd rather see the Necromancer added as a new Paragon Path as well for the Control Wizard.
On that note, I'd also love to see the Simbarch of Aglarond Paragon Path for Control Wizards too. More-so than Necromancy.
I voted Bard again just because I really want to see more support type roles in the game. Everything is all about DPS right now and it gets kind of boring. My tank and my healer were both basically unnecessary most of the time so I end up playing more of a buff/debuff role right now with and it makes them a bit more fun. But I'd really like to see a class where this support role is the primary focus and get really creative with different ways to buff/debuff.
0
alienmafiaMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 19Arc User
edited January 2015
Aw. Not enough powers as a Paragon Path on the CW. 3 encounter, 2 Dailies, 3 Class features is not enough to get a new feel of a "necromancer". CW is a CW no matter what paragon path they have.
Necromancer Wizard as a Class is my vote :P.
Bone Control
Poison Dmaage
Curses Debuffs
Skeleton/Reanimation summons
Aw. Not enough powers as a Paragon Path on the CW. 3 encounter, 2 Dailies, 3 Class features is not enough
Its not even that much. A paragon path only offers 3 powers TOTAL. (1 encounter, 1 daily, 1 one at-will) And 3 passive class features. That's it. That is hardly enough to make any one class into two. Paragons simply offer flavors, nothing more.
Its why I always grit my teeth when someone shouts that Paladin should of been a paragon of Guardian. There is just not enough there to really do it any kind of justice.
0
zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
edited January 2015
There's really no logical reason why they couldn't implement a paragon path that has new powers/features/feats that replaces more than just a few powers/features/feats.
There's really no logical reason why they couldn't implement a paragon path that has new powers/features/feats that replaces more than just a few powers/features/feats.
Then its no longer called a Paragon Path but something completely different. Something called a New class? :P
There's really no logical reason why they couldn't implement a paragon path that has new powers/features/feats that replaces more than just a few powers/features/feats.
No there is no logical reason not to. But there is also no logical reason to change it either. I don't see Cryptic changing a standard they made, just because. There would need to be a reason for one paragon to offer more then any other. This gets further complicated with each new class. If they did release an expanded paragon that offers more then the current standard. There would have to be similar options offered to every class, or it would simply be seen as unfair.
The only likely option would be to fold such changes into a larger project. We might see more changes to the paragon system added with any new powers available due to the level increase. But even at that, with only 10 levels, we are still only talking a tiny hand full of powers.
0
zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
No there is no logical reason not to. But there is also no logical reason to change it either. I don't see Cryptic changing a standard they made, just because. There would need to be a reason for one paragon to offer more then any other. This gets further complicated with each new class. If they did release an expanded paragon that offers more then the current standard. There would have to be similar options offered to every class, or it would simply be seen as unfair.
The only likely option would be to fold such changes into a larger project. We might see more changes to the paragon system added with any new powers available due to the level increase. But even at that, with only 10 levels, we are still only talking a tiny hand full of powers.
Nah. For example, with the Necromancer, they could just replace certain spells with necromantic versions that are mostly the same in terms of mechanics but visually do different things. Like replacing Ray of Enfeeblement with Enervation and Steal Time with Waves of Fatigue, for just two examples. When one thinks about it, many abilities in game have counterparts in D&D that could easily replace them and be very similar in mechanics, yet strikingly different in visuals.
I'm curious, what happened to the Druid class for module 6?
Did Paladin win out?
Druid was never announced as the next class. At best a vague comment by a developer saying he'd like to see it has been quoted over and over on the forums, and it a good example why devs in general avoid saying anything.
And yes oathsworn Paladin was officially announced for mod 6
I mean, it was never officially confirmed or anything, but there were several hints that the Druid would be the next class.
I know the Paladin was also highly requested, and it actually is my second most-wanted class, but I thought the Druid had more support from the community. Especially since it would most likely be completely different from any other classes we have right now. (I know it's possible to also make the Paladin unique, but... I don't really have high hopes about that. It's most likely going to just be a hybrid of the Cleric and Guardian Fighter. We are talking about a game that has 2 Fighter classes that share many of the same moves, and have the exact same paragon class choices...)
I'm concerned, mainly because of how long it takes between modules that add classes. Is there any news at all about when to expect a Druid class?
Comments
(Assault) Swordmage
Invoker
Avenger
I really don't understand the draw of the druid. >_>
Bard wouldn't be terrible though.
I'd have a side vote on Shadowdancers though.
"Why is it dragons only use ketchup? I'd like a little wasabi please. Us silvers like a variety of condiments."
"Don't call them foolish mortals. One, they don't learn from it. Two, It just ticks them off." - An Ancient Red Dragon
True, but I think they are referring to gameplay rather than lore or source of power. aka ranged dps using 'blasts' of some sort.
To be fair though, all classes are often played that way in mmos. You just need to have a 'childeran' behind the wheel.
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
We don't need any of those as long as CW exists in its current form.
Wait, when did that happen? I don't remember the reveal of either of the other two. Admittedly, I've ignored all lore once I found out they killed of Eilistraee and the Midnight version Mystra was killed off. (Yes I am way behind)
glassdoor.com - Cryptic Studios Review
You can and should have more than one class able to do a role.
Now granted, I'm being a little facetious with all this. But I still believe that the class somehow is the problem. Ive played table-top games where otherwise reasonably intelligent people suddenly were reduced to drooling mouth breathers when playing a monk. Every solution to every problem simply was reduced to "Punch it in the face"
GM: "Its a black pudding, it has no face"
Player: "Ill draw a face on it with a stick, then punch that!"
I can forgive the barbarians, being mindless is a long honored trope for them. I'm just not sure where monks went wrong. It reminds me of old Shadowrun campaigns where you could simply count on the Street Samurai doing something stupid enough to kill off the entire party. I see monks pretty much the same way.
Or we got this. Everything I wanted to say about monks, said better.
http://www.ruleofthedice.com/2011/02/monks-suck.html
I get ya. I made a 'Billy Jack' clone in champs online. A couple of players even recognized him. But the 'monk' (MA) skills were way obnoxious for him. He was still pretty cool though.
"I'm gonna take this right foot, and I'm gonna whop you on that side of your face... and you wanna know something? There's not a **** thing you're gonna be able to do about it." - Billy Jack
Throk hit it with axe. If it no die, Throk get bigger axe. Hulk Smash Rawr.
I love barbs.
The mentions of the Psiweave are somewhere in one of the many source materials on the Illithid and Ilsensine. The Timestream is mentioned in either the source material for the Arcane Age (when Mystra was Mystryl) or in one of the Arcane Age novels, I cannot remember.
Eilistrase was indeed slain while she inhabited the body of her and Mystra's Chosen, Qilué Veladorn. She was sent reeling to the Astral Plane as an inanimate "dead" god, however Corellon Larethian (her father) intercepted her astral form because she sacrificed herself for her beloved good drow. Corellon took his daughter's essence into himself and then lifted the curse on all Good Drow that were truly faithful to Eilistrasee at the time of her sacrifice. Corellon, as the God of All Elves, has the power to restore her. This brought these good drow back to a state before their race was cursed by Corellon, in effect populating the world with the original Dark Elves (Ssri-tel-quessir) once again. So we may see Eilistrasee once again, since her essence resides within Corellon Larethian.
Eilistrasee is currently not listed in the 5th edition deities. I'll be updating my Grimoire of Time today or tomorrow to reflect the 5th Edition deities and lore. However, scroll down to the Sundering entries at the bottom for a "Prophet Style" overview of the Three Sunderings.
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
For my vote sword mage because of the same interest and it would be pretty cool to fight and weave magic at the same time I'm curious as to how that would play out.
Thanks. First DnD based game played
I want those then :P. Whatever is the closest to a Necromancy type character
Clerics cannot be necromancers. They can pretend a semblance of such by worshipping a god who's domain is Death however.
As for Neverwinter Online, a Necromancer Wizard Class could very well be implemented for such would fit in how they interpret the 4th and now 5th edition classes to work in this particular MMORPG.
With that in mind, next time we make a new Class Poll thread, I'll first inquire with Cryptic about Necromancy and see if they think we should add Necromancer as a class choice in the new poll. For now, choose "Other" and post a reply that details one's desire for a Necromancer Wizard.
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
In playstyle to d2's necromancer it would be some kind of summoner, which I think is a conjuration spell iirc. However I don't think that playstyle would work well here based on the ai of the companions and SW pet. The ai is very poor and the attacks are in general not high enough in damage to be worthwhile.
As far as a true necromancy focused class this is from zeb
To me this means that any necromancy themes would be better handled by adding another paragon path to the CW, mechanically that would just probably fit best imo for this game.
edit* zeb beat me but I'm leaving up my opinion of how necromancy should be added with another paragon path.
On that note, I'd also love to see the Simbarch of Aglarond Paragon Path for Control Wizards too. More-so than Necromancy.
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
Necromancer Wizard as a Class is my vote :P.
Bone Control
Poison Dmaage
Curses Debuffs
Skeleton/Reanimation summons
Its not even that much. A paragon path only offers 3 powers TOTAL. (1 encounter, 1 daily, 1 one at-will) And 3 passive class features. That's it. That is hardly enough to make any one class into two. Paragons simply offer flavors, nothing more.
Its why I always grit my teeth when someone shouts that Paladin should of been a paragon of Guardian. There is just not enough there to really do it any kind of justice.
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
Then its no longer called a Paragon Path but something completely different. Something called a New class? :P
Did Paladin win out?
-Kymos
No there is no logical reason not to. But there is also no logical reason to change it either. I don't see Cryptic changing a standard they made, just because. There would need to be a reason for one paragon to offer more then any other. This gets further complicated with each new class. If they did release an expanded paragon that offers more then the current standard. There would have to be similar options offered to every class, or it would simply be seen as unfair.
The only likely option would be to fold such changes into a larger project. We might see more changes to the paragon system added with any new powers available due to the level increase. But even at that, with only 10 levels, we are still only talking a tiny hand full of powers.
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
or multi-classing :P
Druid was never announced as the next class. At best a vague comment by a developer saying he'd like to see it has been quoted over and over on the forums, and it a good example why devs in general avoid saying anything.
And yes oathsworn Paladin was officially announced for mod 6
I know the Paladin was also highly requested, and it actually is my second most-wanted class, but I thought the Druid had more support from the community. Especially since it would most likely be completely different from any other classes we have right now. (I know it's possible to also make the Paladin unique, but... I don't really have high hopes about that. It's most likely going to just be a hybrid of the Cleric and Guardian Fighter. We are talking about a game that has 2 Fighter classes that share many of the same moves, and have the exact same paragon class choices...)
I'm concerned, mainly because of how long it takes between modules that add classes. Is there any news at all about when to expect a Druid class?