I'm sure you're a good GF player and i'm equally sure your opinion and feedback will be appreciated.
This thread wasn't designed as a platform for players to provide a 'how to' for tanking however. Perhaps consider compiling your own GF build and guide in a separate thread instead?
I do have some concerns with the accuracy of what you wrote, yet i'll leave it to someone else in some other thread to discuss those with you.
Many thanks and take care!
ok seem like its not a how to but just to discuss whats wrong and right u said.
so, let see:
1. What do you like about the GF class?
u have insane survivability, the shield can stay up long enough, comapre to old shield that was based on hit, so 5 hit in 1 sec puss bye bye shield, not anymore, good party buff, good party dmg mitigation (tanking even if u dont have the agroo).
2. What do you LEAST like about the GF class?
Low dps, very low dps compare to almost every class if not all when doing dailies, specially since the base became a do this every day, go there kill x guys, dc 1-2 encounter all dead, cw 1 encounter all dead, tr 2-3 encounters or just 1 at-will and any add dead, GF even with dps build/tree takes long making what is borring cuz u have to do it everyday even.
3. In what direction do you want to see this class go?
i would like to see the GF be a must have on dungeons, but we know thats not the case specially with 2 cw or 3ce can kill everything and keep it in a stun lock.
to change this i dont see any class boost or nerf needed just a very simple change in party/queue system, i have defend this since day 1, u should not be able to queue for dungeons/pvp/skirmish with 2 chars of the same class, parties should be only able to enter dungeon/pvp/skirmish with 5 diferent classes, no more 5 cw farming and cleaning any dung, no more pvp against 5 stealth tr, this would make more ppl have to play different classes and would make it more strategic each fight an team/party playing more interactive.
P.s. tell me what u find not correct or what lacks in accuracy in what i wrote, the numbers are not 100% correct in set terms i was wroting and just rolling eyes on gateway over the gear numbers there.
(pm in game if u need and we run some dungeons to test it - search for X-tremoz gf lv60).
ok seem like its not a how to but just to discuss whats wrong and right u said.
so, let see:
1. What do you like about the GF class?
u have insane survivability, the shield can stay up long enough, comapre to old shield that was based on hit, so 5 hit in 1 sec puss bye bye shield, not anymore, good party buff, good party dmg mitigation (tanking even if u dont have the agroo).
2. What do you LEAST like about the GF class?
Low dps, very low dps compare to almost every class if not all when doing dailies, specially since the base became a do this every day, go there kill x guys, dc 1-2 encounter all dead, cw 1 encounter all dead, tr 2-3 encounters or just 1 at-will and any add dead, GF even with dps build/tree takes long making what is borring cuz u have to do it everyday even.
3. In what direction do you want to see this class go?
i would like to see the GF be a must have on dungeons, but we know thats not the case specially with 2 cw or 3ce can kill everything and keep it in a stun lock.
to change this i dont see any class boost or nerf needed just a very simple change in party/queue system, i have defend this since day 1, u should not be able to queue for dungeons/pvp/skirmish with 2 chars of the same class, parties should be only able to enter dungeon/pvp/skirmish with 5 diferent classes, no more 5 cw farming and cleaning any dung, no more pvp against 5 stealth tr, this would make more ppl have to play different classes and would make it more strategic each fight an team/party playing more interactive.
P.s. tell me what u find not correct or what lacks in accuracy in what i wrote, the numbers are not 100% correct in set terms i was wroting and just rolling eyes on gateway over the gear numbers there.
(pm in game if u need and we run some dungeons to test it - search for X-tremoz gf lv60).
I like idea no. 3. No same class inside the dungeon. I hope the devs look into that.
0
schweifer1982Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,662Arc User
edited January 2015
Bug:
Crushing Pin
Your Control powers cause the target to take 2/4/6/8/10% bonus damage for 3 seconds.
Not work with GF Artifact offhand Guarded Assault: Guarded Assault now also lowers the Run Speed of the affected attacker by 5%.
and Perfect frost enchantment . Both stuff count as Control power and both used by GF so it shoud work .
But it work with Heart of the White Dragon Artifact
Use: Deals 2,608 Cold damage (+20% if you are Dragonborn) to up to 7 enemies in a cone in front of the user and slows those targets for 5.1 seconds.
Final result - learn to player your char and like me u will do the 1st CN boss alone as GF.
AT GS?
Any way i can do all 4 alone but noone care about, ask y self why ?
Time it take to kill it is important .If y figth the draco ower 1 hour ist funny.
As CW i can do it in 30 min full run. With lower GS ofc.
16k CW /TR /DC /GWF can do it too can y say 16 k GF can do it ? I dont think so.
I can also solo E.lol but it takes ages to kill 1 stack ranger freezing GWF duo .
CW can kill those thing 6 time faster . And many ohter class can do it 6 time faster there is no i say agan no chalange in pve after 22-26 k GS al perfect stuff.
Any way i can do all 4 alone but noone care about, ask y self why ?
Time it take to kill it is important .If y figth the draco ower 1 hour ist funny.
As CW i can do it in 30 min full run. With lower GS ofc.
16k CW /TR /DC /GWF can do it too can y say 16 k GF can do it ? I dont think so.
I can also solo E.lol but it takes ages to kill 1 stack ranger freezing GWF duo .
CW can kill those thing 6 time faster . And many ohter class can do it 6 time faster there is no i say agan no chalange in pve after 22-26 k GS al perfect stuff.
20k GS GF conqueror, and its a nice 5-10 min fight. ofc every other class can do it faster, every other class do 30-50k crits easy even on aoe skills gf do some 10-20k crits with most aoe full buffs and debuffs. specially cw with stun locks and the same skills that stun/freeze deling massive 30-50k hits.
and a 16k gs its nothing dont compare gf with other classes on GS terms, in case u dont know since changes on GF CON with HP increased from each 1 CON a gf get 16k gs easy make a GF and a CW buy a T2 set for each and compare.
0
damnaciousMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 354Arc User
edited January 2015
Well guys and gals.... it has now been over a month and a half since my first post informing you of the difficulties and situation i'd experienced as your Advocate and well over a month since both Zebular and I messaged Akromatik.
I wanted to keep you updated and let you know that there has still been no response. For all intents and purposes, I believe, you can assume these are dead in the water and will simply be swept under the carpet.
With the release of the Paladin as a new 'tank' class, I fear that our class will, like our attempt at resolving issues with our class, be dead in the water.
I'm sorry guys for this result. I really hoped 'someone' cared about our class and us as consumers.
Yeah well.. thanks for trying. But most of us knew this 'project' was nothing but smoke up the back alley when it started. It was nothing more than an attempt to cut down on forum clutter. A way for us to be ignored in bulk rather than on an individual level. They will do what they will do and I do not care.
checkmatein3Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 525Arc User
edited January 2015
PREFACE: I have played GF as my main toon since beta (April 2013). For those that have not been around for that long, I can say that the current state of the GF is not as bad as it has been. GFs are wanted in parties because of the ability to buff/debuff (not for tanking). There was a time when no one wanted a GF in a party for any reason (except an occassional speed run in FH so that the GF could kite the mob at final boss). So, I will take what I can get, even if I have to be a buff bot. It is good to be wanted.
SUGGESTIONS for Improvements:
1. Higher softcap/hard cap on stats that will make the GF tankier: Regeneration, Deflect, Defense, Life Steal
2. Change total formulaic limit of defense from 80% to 95%. If a GF can make it to 95%, why not?
3. Change Protector path Capstone feat to debuff more (how about something like -5% defense and -2% crit chance, stackable 5x, for 8sec) and while defending and/or attacking (I don't play Protector). It would be like Conqueror in Reverse.
4. Increase base stamina by 10%.
5. Increase base weapon damage by 5-10%.
6. Bring back AP gain for all dailies. We know it was nerfed because of the 100% uptime of SoS in PvP. But this depended on the enemy players attacking while the GF had SoS up. It is their fault for attacking, not the GFs fault for having it up. It is also interesting that the GF was nerfed immediately after mod 4 release, because of complaints of the community, but other classes get no such nerf until, perhaps, months and months and months of flaming and trolling and complaints.
7. Increase Frontline Surge damage back to pre-GWF crossover level (for GF only). I do not play Iron Vanguard, but this nerf remains in place because of the inherent damage that a GWF can do. Also, increase the # of hits from 5 to whatever is in range. The area of effect and direction of effect is the limiting factor.
8. Add more kinds of transmutes for the GF. I would love more options with hammers, spears, tridents. The Sword and Board does not have to be so bland.
9. If soft cap and hard cap for defense remains the same, be more imaginative for GF armor/equipment stats than loading it up with defense stat that is diminishing in return.
10. If other classes can have a perma-build, and give up other functionalities to achieve it, the GF should have the ability to become perma-guard. If you do the math, even with Profound set, artifacts that increase stamina gain, feats that increase stamina and reduce guard loss, offhand artifact shield talent increase, offhand artifact extra stamina stat, boons that increase stamina regeneration, and with jewels for stamina gain, you cannot be in guard 100% of the time. Why not give the GF a build option to be perma-guard, at the sacrifice of dps? To do this, make a feat on the Protector line that increases stamina regeneration by 5% per feat point, and put this as the second tier option. With Enforced Threat, Boon, and this, you can hit 55% regeneration of stamina. Just saying...
FIXING BUGS:
1. Make shield transmutes correctly fit the race selection and height of PC. I play Dragonborn, and the only three shields that don't look like bucklers are the two Thayans (which look the same) and the Orc Transmute. I know you can do this because the Dread Spire Knight has a huge shield, as does the Whispering Canyons ToD mini-lair boss. Please fix it.
2. Fix shield defense so that it procs when it is supposed to, on the use of every daily.
3. Fix Villain's Menace immunity to CC so that the TR's dazed attacks do not immobilize.
4. Fix the inability to come out of guard after fights. Because the GF can be in guard and it moves more slowly in guard, this makes running a dungeon burdensome for teammates because the GF is last to get to the next mob.
5. Remove the lag-inducing, blue glow from Knight's Valor. My parties love it when I run KV at the beginning of dungeons (like eLoL) and are begging me to turn if off by the end. Also, KV in Tiamat (I am not arguing its usefulness or wisdom), but if a GF wants to get cursed at like he has never been cursed at before, use it in Tiamat. The lag is so bad, you would think you are watching a screen saver. Remove the blue glow. No one cares whether they visibly see themselves protected by KV. And, remove the visible effect of showing damage going to the GF. If you want your GF to glow like a nuclear reactor, use KV with lots of adds at a boss (try FH second boss if you want to laugh your face off). It is so bright, I only see white/blue on my screen. Remove it please!
6. Fix the bug that only permits the Dragonborn helmet to go on Dragonborn race. All others are invisible by default.
7. Fix the Profound Gear's bonuses. Make them different based on sets, and make them work. 8. Fix the problem with temporary hit points and regeneration/lifesteal. Temporary hit points for a GF are a huge problem. First, you can be at full health and then a party member or one of your feats/enchants/encounters grants you temporary hit points. You lose health. Second, while you have temporary hit points, you do not gain regeneration nor lifesteal. Try it and see. Third, this makes the selections on the Conqueror Path for temp hit points/extra damage with temp hit points cost a lot more than a few feat points. You are giving up two means of auto-healing.
If you haven't already seen, there is a new call-out for "Class Reporters".
In the interest of having our class not continuously ignored, I would hope that someone who genuinely cares about our class decides to take on the responsibility, particularly as having someone not truly dedicated may negatively affect any chance we might have of obtaining our much needed improvements.
I will be asking for this thread to be locked as it no longer seems to serve much of a purpose, yet I would like to take this opportunity to once again thank you all for your efforts and support. I really do appreciate it.
Take care all, good luck and may all your enemies (except me!) be struck quivering in fear simply by the sight of you!
0
zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
edited January 2015
Closing this up now so it can be used as an Archive and not have new feedback mixed in with old.
Safe travels,
Archmage Zebular of Mystryl PWE Community Moderator
Comments
ok seem like its not a how to but just to discuss whats wrong and right u said.
so, let see:
1. What do you like about the GF class?
u have insane survivability, the shield can stay up long enough, comapre to old shield that was based on hit, so 5 hit in 1 sec puss bye bye shield, not anymore, good party buff, good party dmg mitigation (tanking even if u dont have the agroo).
2. What do you LEAST like about the GF class?
Low dps, very low dps compare to almost every class if not all when doing dailies, specially since the base became a do this every day, go there kill x guys, dc 1-2 encounter all dead, cw 1 encounter all dead, tr 2-3 encounters or just 1 at-will and any add dead, GF even with dps build/tree takes long making what is borring cuz u have to do it everyday even.
3. In what direction do you want to see this class go?
i would like to see the GF be a must have on dungeons, but we know thats not the case specially with 2 cw or 3ce can kill everything and keep it in a stun lock.
to change this i dont see any class boost or nerf needed just a very simple change in party/queue system, i have defend this since day 1, u should not be able to queue for dungeons/pvp/skirmish with 2 chars of the same class, parties should be only able to enter dungeon/pvp/skirmish with 5 diferent classes, no more 5 cw farming and cleaning any dung, no more pvp against 5 stealth tr, this would make more ppl have to play different classes and would make it more strategic each fight an team/party playing more interactive.
P.s. tell me what u find not correct or what lacks in accuracy in what i wrote, the numbers are not 100% correct in set terms i was wroting and just rolling eyes on gateway over the gear numbers there.
(pm in game if u need and we run some dungeons to test it - search for X-tremoz gf lv60).
I like idea no. 3. No same class inside the dungeon. I hope the devs look into that.
Crushing Pin
Your Control powers cause the target to take 2/4/6/8/10% bonus damage for 3 seconds.
Not work with GF Artifact offhand Guarded Assault: Guarded Assault now also lowers the Run Speed of the affected attacker by 5%.
and Perfect frost enchantment . Both stuff count as Control power and both used by GF so it shoud work .
But it work with Heart of the White Dragon Artifact
Use: Deals 2,608 Cold damage (+20% if you are Dragonborn) to up to 7 enemies in a cone in front of the user and slows those targets for 5.1 seconds.
Mybe somone care about this .
AT GS?
Any way i can do all 4 alone but noone care about, ask y self why ?
Time it take to kill it is important .If y figth the draco ower 1 hour ist funny.
As CW i can do it in 30 min full run. With lower GS ofc.
16k CW /TR /DC /GWF can do it too can y say 16 k GF can do it ? I dont think so.
I can also solo E.lol but it takes ages to kill 1 stack ranger freezing GWF duo .
CW can kill those thing 6 time faster . And many ohter class can do it 6 time faster there is no i say agan no chalange in pve after 22-26 k GS al perfect stuff.
20k GS GF conqueror, and its a nice 5-10 min fight. ofc every other class can do it faster, every other class do 30-50k crits easy even on aoe skills gf do some 10-20k crits with most aoe full buffs and debuffs. specially cw with stun locks and the same skills that stun/freeze deling massive 30-50k hits.
and a 16k gs its nothing dont compare gf with other classes on GS terms, in case u dont know since changes on GF CON with HP increased from each 1 CON a gf get 16k gs easy make a GF and a CW buy a T2 set for each and compare.
I wanted to keep you updated and let you know that there has still been no response. For all intents and purposes, I believe, you can assume these are dead in the water and will simply be swept under the carpet.
With the release of the Paladin as a new 'tank' class, I fear that our class will, like our attempt at resolving issues with our class, be dead in the water.
I'm sorry guys for this result. I really hoped 'someone' cared about our class and us as consumers.
Steel and Magic
SUGGESTIONS for Improvements:
1. Higher softcap/hard cap on stats that will make the GF tankier: Regeneration, Deflect, Defense, Life Steal
2. Change total formulaic limit of defense from 80% to 95%. If a GF can make it to 95%, why not?
3. Change Protector path Capstone feat to debuff more (how about something like -5% defense and -2% crit chance, stackable 5x, for 8sec) and while defending and/or attacking (I don't play Protector). It would be like Conqueror in Reverse.
4. Increase base stamina by 10%.
5. Increase base weapon damage by 5-10%.
6. Bring back AP gain for all dailies. We know it was nerfed because of the 100% uptime of SoS in PvP. But this depended on the enemy players attacking while the GF had SoS up. It is their fault for attacking, not the GFs fault for having it up. It is also interesting that the GF was nerfed immediately after mod 4 release, because of complaints of the community, but other classes get no such nerf until, perhaps, months and months and months of flaming and trolling and complaints.
7. Increase Frontline Surge damage back to pre-GWF crossover level (for GF only). I do not play Iron Vanguard, but this nerf remains in place because of the inherent damage that a GWF can do. Also, increase the # of hits from 5 to whatever is in range. The area of effect and direction of effect is the limiting factor.
8. Add more kinds of transmutes for the GF. I would love more options with hammers, spears, tridents. The Sword and Board does not have to be so bland.
9. If soft cap and hard cap for defense remains the same, be more imaginative for GF armor/equipment stats than loading it up with defense stat that is diminishing in return.
10. If other classes can have a perma-build, and give up other functionalities to achieve it, the GF should have the ability to become perma-guard. If you do the math, even with Profound set, artifacts that increase stamina gain, feats that increase stamina and reduce guard loss, offhand artifact shield talent increase, offhand artifact extra stamina stat, boons that increase stamina regeneration, and with jewels for stamina gain, you cannot be in guard 100% of the time. Why not give the GF a build option to be perma-guard, at the sacrifice of dps? To do this, make a feat on the Protector line that increases stamina regeneration by 5% per feat point, and put this as the second tier option. With Enforced Threat, Boon, and this, you can hit 55% regeneration of stamina. Just saying...
FIXING BUGS:
1. Make shield transmutes correctly fit the race selection and height of PC. I play Dragonborn, and the only three shields that don't look like bucklers are the two Thayans (which look the same) and the Orc Transmute. I know you can do this because the Dread Spire Knight has a huge shield, as does the Whispering Canyons ToD mini-lair boss. Please fix it.
2. Fix shield defense so that it procs when it is supposed to, on the use of every daily.
3. Fix Villain's Menace immunity to CC so that the TR's dazed attacks do not immobilize.
4. Fix the inability to come out of guard after fights. Because the GF can be in guard and it moves more slowly in guard, this makes running a dungeon burdensome for teammates because the GF is last to get to the next mob.
5. Remove the lag-inducing, blue glow from Knight's Valor. My parties love it when I run KV at the beginning of dungeons (like eLoL) and are begging me to turn if off by the end. Also, KV in Tiamat (I am not arguing its usefulness or wisdom), but if a GF wants to get cursed at like he has never been cursed at before, use it in Tiamat. The lag is so bad, you would think you are watching a screen saver. Remove the blue glow. No one cares whether they visibly see themselves protected by KV. And, remove the visible effect of showing damage going to the GF. If you want your GF to glow like a nuclear reactor, use KV with lots of adds at a boss (try FH second boss if you want to laugh your face off). It is so bright, I only see white/blue on my screen. Remove it please!
6. Fix the bug that only permits the Dragonborn helmet to go on Dragonborn race. All others are invisible by default.
7. Fix the Profound Gear's bonuses. Make them different based on sets, and make them work.
8. Fix the problem with temporary hit points and regeneration/lifesteal. Temporary hit points for a GF are a huge problem. First, you can be at full health and then a party member or one of your feats/enchants/encounters grants you temporary hit points. You lose health. Second, while you have temporary hit points, you do not gain regeneration nor lifesteal. Try it and see. Third, this makes the selections on the Conqueror Path for temp hit points/extra damage with temp hit points cost a lot more than a few feat points. You are giving up two means of auto-healing.
Sincerely,
BLUNT FORCE TRAUMA
Guild--And the Imaginary Friends
You can view it here.
I do not foresee any further response.
If you haven't already seen, there is a new call-out for "Class Reporters".
In the interest of having our class not continuously ignored, I would hope that someone who genuinely cares about our class decides to take on the responsibility, particularly as having someone not truly dedicated may negatively affect any chance we might have of obtaining our much needed improvements.
I will be asking for this thread to be locked as it no longer seems to serve much of a purpose, yet I would like to take this opportunity to once again thank you all for your efforts and support. I really do appreciate it.
Take care all, good luck and may all your enemies (except me!) be struck quivering in fear simply by the sight of you!
Safe travels,
Archmage Zebular of Mystryl
PWE Community Moderator
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