2564 + 256,4 + 256,4 = 3077 Power + 180 (Steely Defense) = 3.257 Total power using a Chicken. So the difference is +78 Power. However, it is necessary to keep in mind that the Chicken only gives you Power while a BDIS comes with 209 Crit + 209 ArPen too.
If we add Disciple of War, we will have 959 ArPen (250*3+209) for a total of 240 Power, the chicken has 600 (500+50+50), that's 150 Power. 240-150 = 90 Power, BDIS is above Chicken now. The point is that the more you can add to your augment stone, more options will be available for your character. Using a chicken means that you will need to fill the missing 350 ArPen in your character, using boons, artifact, etc but using the BDSI you can add something else like Recovery that also gives you Power.
Yes, that is true. Thanks for taking the time to clear it up Laz.
What about using Battle Awareness feat and Slam for 25% bonus power?
Since action point gain is pretty high and you already use Sigil of the Devoted you would have 25% more power almost all the time. Wouldn't that contribute to more dmg?
no it wont contribute.
even if it gives you 25% more power, that doesn't mean you will deal more damage.
indomitable stregth for example can hit for 100k damage
so will you change that daily for slam?i doubt.
avalanche of steel deals more damage, and its AOE too.
no it wont contribute.
even if it gives you 25% more power, that doesn't mean you will deal more damage.
indomitable stregth for example can hit for 100k damage
so will you change that daily for slam?i doubt.
avalanche of steel deals more damage, and its AOE too.
First of all Indomitable Strength is Iron Vanguard and this guide is about Swordmaster.
Secondly since when having more power doesn't contribute to your damage?
I'm still waiting for my answer lazaroth
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schweifer1982Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,662Arc User
First of all Indomitable Strength is Iron Vanguard and this guide is about Swordmaster.
Secondly since when having more power doesn't contribute to your damage?
First of all Indomitable Strength is Iron Vanguard and this guide is about Swordmaster.
Secondly since when having more power doesn't contribute to your damage?
I'm still waiting for my answer lazaroth
it's about the daily m8
for example you using slam you will deal less damage, than you are using crescendo or avalanche of steal.
i said "for example" so that you would understand
so the 25% more POWER from batteawarness + slam damage does LESS damage than Crescendo or Avalanche of steel. ok ?
either way i was just passin by. if you dont understand do what you want.
and at 14k power u get 1300 from onslaught + 500 from stamina and probably a DC that gives u more power or from other sources like knight captain set from a GF and that 25% more power from battle awarness is suffering from diminishing returns so u will prbably get +3% more damage bonus. so OVERALL if slam doesn't do more damage it's useless .
Avalanche of Steel is not that great since damage is bigger than Slam but on the other hand you are able to hit your targets while slaming. Slam lasts 10 seconds so you have a 25% buff to your power for 10 seconds. With Sigil of the Devoted you are easily able to use another Slam right away. That said both dailies are pretty situational.
Avalanche of Steel can save your life when needed and Slam can slow down your opponents.
I agree about Vicious Advantage though. You can get these 5% crit from squash soup, elixir of fate and potion of heroism but you also lose 5% dmg with a combat advantage.
thats why it's situational, u wont use AoS when you are facing 1 target, you will use crescendo. idk, do yourself
and again i repeat, depends on your diminishing returns..
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schweifer1982Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,662Arc User
it's about the daily m8
for example you using slam you will deal less damage, than you are using crescendo or avalanche of steal.
i said "for example" so that you would understand
so the 25% more POWER from batteawarness + slam damage does LESS damage than Crescendo or Avalanche of steel. ok ?
either way i was just passin by. if you dont understand do what you want.
and at 14k power u get 1300 from onslaught + 500 from stamina and probably a DC that gives u more power or from other sources like knight captain set from a GF and that 25% more power from battle awarness is suffering from diminishing returns so u will prbably get +3% more damage bonus. so OVERALL if slam doesn't do more damage it's useless .
Nop its not corret Slam dont buff your power from Stone so -3k power.
So lets say you can boost 11k power = 2750 power 16 % more dmg for 5 sec as i remember, also slam deal max 20-30k dmg nothing more(cuz it cannot hit crit) .3
Only your base power is buffed by slam not your total its work like Disciple of war AOW set bonus and other buffs dont give you power from recovery and arp.
Nop its not corret Slam dont buff your power from Stone so -3k power.
So lets say you can boost 11k power = 2750 power 16 % more dmg for 5 sec as i remember, also slam deal max 20-30k dmg nothing more(cuz it cannot hit crit) .3
Only your base power is buffed by slam not your total its work like Disciple of war AOW set bonus and other buffs dont give you power from recovery and arp.
dont make it sound so good, we are talkin about diminishing returns too. for example lazalia build omgwowz0retc. have 14k power and like i said + 1300 from avatar + 500 from stamina, the 25% out of POWER from slam for 5 seconds it won't be worth and you wont deal more damage than using a daily like crescendo/indtomitable strength or avalance of steel, depending of the situation. understand or no ?
(so if you have 11k power and you get 2750 you wont have 16% more damage, cause you already have 14k power so adding extra 3k power more it wont give you 16% .. but either way it doesn't matter. ok?
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lazaroth666Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,332Arc User
What about using Battle Awareness feat and Slam for 25% bonus power?
Since action point gain is pretty high and you already use Sigil of the Devoted you would have 25% more power almost all the time. Wouldn't that contribute to more dmg?
Thanks for passing by and sorry for the late reply.
The other guys already replied to you (Thanks btw) so I will just try to do a summary and simplify it.
Regarding to Power and the way it works at higher lvl, I will quote Kaelac:
The increase in skill damage is linear with respect to power. Every 500 increase in power is a 3% increase in damage/healing. This is not a straight percentage increase, rather it's a 3% increase with respect to the zero power baseline ... People keep saying 167 power is 1% more DPS. IT IS NOT. It is only 1% when you have zero power, as your power increase, that increase drops.
You can check more information about this here section: 3 Crit Vs Power, where you will find a graphic that will show us that the higher your Power, less benefit we get from stacking it or in other words, it has diminishing returns.
So, let's say that I have 13k Power, using Battle Awareness means 3250 extra translated into 19,58% dmg, that sounds great but due to the DR, it's actually a lot less than that. Also, in order to activate it we have to use Slam which is an Utility daily, it is not meant to be a daily used for DMG, the dmg that it deals even being AoE is really low compared to Spinning Strike i.e. We have mentioned many times in the forum that Slam must be reworked, it should crit or whatever gives to it much more dmg because actually is really bad. After using Slam, you might gain a bit more of dmg for your Encounters/At-Wills but it won't cover the loss of dmg produced by not using Crescendo/Spinning Strike.
Ok, thanks for your answer. I tried to calculate it on my own since Kaelac's graph ends at 12k power and I'm still looking for sth to boost my overall dmg.
I like your build because I'm a big fan of crit rating and I'm using a very similar one with some small differences - for example Heart of the Black Dragon + Vanguard Banner instead of Blue + Kessell's. But that's only because I keep my action point gain high.
titaniumworldMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 28Arc User
edited January 2015
I am not seeing how you have 61% critical chance by my math you have 44.5% critical, weapon mastery + artifact is 7.5%, and vicious advantage is 5%, for a total of 57% I have gone over your post a few times but I cant see where the other 4% is coming from to give 61%.
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lazaroth666Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,332Arc User
I am not seeing how you have 61% critical chance by my math you have 44.5% critical, weapon mastery + artifact is 7.5%, and vicious advantage is 5%, for a total of 57% I have gone over your post a few times but I cant see where the other 4% is coming from to give 61%.
Weapon Master by itself is 7.5% crit chance with 5 stacks and the artifact class feature gives you 4% more (should be 5%, bug reported and ignored)
This whole discussion of Slam completely missed the mark on the most important thing Slam does. For single target, it's pretty bad and that seems to be the vacuum upon which it is being theorycrafted in.
No target cap damage debuff & threat generation AKA your DPS is ingoing to increase dramatically if you aren't chasing mobs around the map due to overzealous CWs.
I mean, you can do all the number crunching possible, but all that is a reflection of is total *potential*, not indicative of player dynamics. #1 enemy to GWF DPS is other players. If you don't mitigate that, then your DPS will suck.
This whole discussion of Slam completely missed the mark on the most important thing Slam does. For single target, it's pretty bad and that seems to be the vacuum upon which it is being theorycrafted in.
No target cap damage debuff & threat generation AKA your DPS is ingoing to increase dramatically if you aren't chasing mobs around the map due to overzealous CWs.
I mean, you can do all the number crunching possible, but all that is a reflection of is total *potential*, not indicative of player dynamics. #1 enemy to GWF DPS is other players. If you don't mitigate that, then your DPS will suck.
If i recall correct, one of the major nerfs it received was a 5 target cap.
any1 wants to test profound destro + high deflect and feythistle ? and tell me how much teh damage is increased ?
ps:yea, you hit 5 numbers, that wouldn't be a problem, but dont you see the damage you do ? its really really low, and it doesn't get multiplied or it doesn't crit. if this daily gets a fix it will help the dps of gwf in PVE.
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mefmareMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 2Arc User
edited January 2015
First of all thank you for this great guide. And here is a couple of questions.
If I have enough ArP to ignore 24% Armor, will I get benefits from other's debuffs that lower defense like terror enchantment, CW's High Vizier set, TR's wicked reminder, 'Student of the Sword' feat etc?
I believe in some cases ArP is better even overcapped. E.G. Dread Ring T3 boon: +3% Deflect severity (considered it is bugged) or 250 ArP. With 'Disciple of War' feat we get 25% of arp as Power. so it is like 62.5 bonus power - not much but still better than 51.5% deflect severity, i suppose.
Archmage's Ring vs Archmage's Belt vs Ring of Pain: AM's ring bonus: 250 Power, 250 ArP and extra slot for 300 Defense (10 Azure). Power bonus 250+250*0.25 (Disciple of War feat)+300*0.2 (Steely Defense heroic feat)=372.5 or 2.24% bonus dmg
Ring of Pain bonus: 181 Power, 138 CS, 181 Recovery. Power bonus 181+181*0.25 (Disciple of War feat)=226.25 or 1.36% bonus dmg
Also 138 CS is about +0.26% critical chance (If we have 3.7k-3.8k), and with 0.75+0.05 (Orc Race)+0.15 (Devastating Critical heroic feat)+0.5(P.Vorp)+0.02 (IWD t3 boon)+0.05 (ToD t5 boon) = 152% Crit Damage 0.26*1.52=0.39%
Sum up RoP's DPS bonus: 1.0136*1.0039=1.0176 or 1.76% bonus dmg (and 181 recovery as well).
AM's belt bonus: 250+300*0.2 (10 Azure in defense slot) = 310 Power or 1.86% bonus dmg, 250 CS is about 0.5% critical chance with Crit Dmg 152% it is +0.76% DPS
Sum up belt DPS bonus: 1.0076*1.0186=1.0263 or 2.63% bonus dmg
Ioun Stone of Choice:
Minimal BiS Gear ArP bonus: 298 (Belt)+350 Artifact (Kessel's or Lantern)+250 (Golden Dragon weapon set)+153 (Ioun stone of Might or Black Dragon Ioun Stone) = 1051. With CON 14 according https://www.desmos.com/calculator/3dqpvhuavj we need ArP 1970-2000, so 4 AM's rings work fine (2 in Ioun stone).
In conclussion we choose 2.24% dmg from archmage's ring with Black Dragon Ioun Stone or 2.63% from Might/Radiance.
Please note this math works if you pick Steely Defense and Disciple of war feats to utilize your Defense, Recovery and ArP in Power
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lazaroth666Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,332Arc User
Hi, I'm very sorry for the late reply, I didn't see the post until now.
Regarding to your first question, Yes, you will get full benefit other's debuff even if your ArPen is 24%. The problem about the Stat power is that is not as good as it looks once you reach a certain amount, please take a look at this link which will take you to Kaelac's Guide about Crit, Power and DPS, I kindly ask you to check the section 3 Crit vs Power where he explains how Power works at high levels and then the following link where Kaelac explains the mechanics of Neverwinted related to damage, buffs, debuffs, etc.
Knowing this, the reason I choosed the deflect severity in this case isn't due to his usefulness but ArPen being too much high for my build and the gain in Power isn't noticeable.
I did the maths some time ago, the best ioun stone for a GWF is Might/Radiance followed by BDIS as I mentioned in the 2nd post, however, this might change in Mod6 since the % varies according to the character lvl and it's going be raised to 70, so we might need much more ArPen i.e, so we just need a bit more of information about the next module before we start getting conclusions about gear.
ps:yea, you hit 5 numbers, that wouldn't be a problem, but dont you see the damage you do ? its really really low, and it doesn't get multiplied or it doesn't crit. if this daily gets a fix
It was "fixed" long ago. It used to deliver some damage but the devs explained they wanted to make it a mere "utility" daily.
1- Why Destroyer on single target DPS? does it proc even on single target?
2- Why Mighty leap for aoe?
Hi, thank you very much!
Regarding to your questions:
1 - The 4th feat in the Destroyer tree is "Focused Destroyer" it also grants you a chance to activate it hitting any number of enemies, up to 25% per hit.
2 - Mighty Leap can be used in both defense and ofense, it allows you to avoid dmg if you use in the right moment, it gives you a very nice mobility and it doesn't have a target cap so you can hit many enemies.
1 - The 4th feat in the Destroyer tree is "Focused Destroyer" it also grants you a chance to activate it hitting any number of enemies, up to 25% per hit.
2 - Mighty Leap can be used in both defense and ofense, it allows you to avoid dmg if you use in the right moment, it gives you a very nice mobility and it doesn't have a target cap so you can hit many enemies.
Mmm ok!
One last question, why DEX belt over STR belt? isn't better having more %Damage bonus than %Crit chance?
Comments
Yes, that is true.
no it wont contribute.
even if it gives you 25% more power, that doesn't mean you will deal more damage.
indomitable stregth for example can hit for 100k damage
so will you change that daily for slam?i doubt.
avalanche of steel deals more damage, and its AOE too.
First of all Indomitable Strength is Iron Vanguard and this guide is about Swordmaster.
Secondly since when having more power doesn't contribute to your damage?
I'm still waiting for my answer lazaroth
You must exchange 5 % crit for it. If u use Laz full build .
Or
If you are IV and use mark feat you must give it up to put 5 point to Battle Awareness.
http://nwcalc.com/gwf?b=cn4:13ydj4:13ydj4,13iju2i:1u0000:1pu55v:100000&h=0&p=smr
Vivious Advantage missing.
http://nwcalc.com/gwf?b=cn4:13ydj4:13ydj4,13iju2i:100000:1pu55v:150000&h=0&p=ivn
Or powerful challenge missing.
it's about the daily m8
for example you using slam you will deal less damage, than you are using crescendo or avalanche of steal.
i said "for example" so that you would understand
so the 25% more POWER from batteawarness + slam damage does LESS damage than Crescendo or Avalanche of steel. ok ?
either way i was just passin by. if you dont understand do what you want.
and at 14k power u get 1300 from onslaught + 500 from stamina and probably a DC that gives u more power or from other sources like knight captain set from a GF and that 25% more power from battle awarness is suffering from diminishing returns so u will prbably get +3% more damage bonus. so OVERALL if slam doesn't do more damage it's useless
Avalanche of Steel can save your life when needed and Slam can slow down your opponents.
I agree about Vicious Advantage though. You can get these 5% crit from squash soup, elixir of fate and potion of heroism but you also lose 5% dmg with a combat advantage.
I'm just curious - I'm not trolling you
and again i repeat, depends on your diminishing returns..
Nop its not corret Slam dont buff your power from Stone so -3k power.
So lets say you can boost 11k power = 2750 power 16 % more dmg for 5 sec as i remember, also slam deal max 20-30k dmg nothing more(cuz it cannot hit crit) .3
Only your base power is buffed by slam not your total its work like Disciple of war AOW set bonus and other buffs dont give you power from recovery and arp.
dont make it sound so good, we are talkin about diminishing returns too. for example lazalia build omgwowz0retc. have 14k power and like i said + 1300 from avatar + 500 from stamina, the 25% out of POWER from slam for 5 seconds it won't be worth and you wont deal more damage than using a daily like crescendo/indtomitable strength or avalance of steel, depending of the situation. understand or no ?
(so if you have 11k power and you get 2750 you wont have 16% more damage, cause you already have 14k power so adding extra 3k power more it wont give you 16% .. but either way it doesn't matter. ok?
Thanks for passing by and sorry for the late reply.
The other guys already replied to you (Thanks btw) so I will just try to do a summary and simplify it.
Regarding to Power and the way it works at higher lvl, I will quote Kaelac:
You can check more information about this here section: 3 Crit Vs Power, where you will find a graphic that will show us that the higher your Power, less benefit we get from stacking it or in other words, it has diminishing returns.
So, let's say that I have 13k Power, using Battle Awareness means 3250 extra translated into 19,58% dmg, that sounds great but due to the DR, it's actually a lot less than that. Also, in order to activate it we have to use Slam which is an Utility daily, it is not meant to be a daily used for DMG, the dmg that it deals even being AoE is really low compared to Spinning Strike i.e. We have mentioned many times in the forum that Slam must be reworked, it should crit or whatever gives to it much more dmg because actually is really bad. After using Slam, you might gain a bit more of dmg for your Encounters/At-Wills but it won't cover the loss of dmg produced by not using Crescendo/Spinning Strike.
I like your build because I'm a big fan of crit rating and I'm using a very similar one with some small differences - for example Heart of the Black Dragon + Vanguard Banner instead of Blue + Kessell's. But that's only because I keep my action point gain high.
Anyway keep up the good work.
motivated by this thread (http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?821881-Dex-vs-STR-%28belt%29) I created a sheet to calculate the damage multipliers from an easy to use input mask. I recommend to copy/paste the sheet into your own google drive table or excel because multiple access will cause confusion ^^. Link: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1PS72tYTabmnbYC3VO7bxb79HvmugQOWfIETUZGtGBIY/edit?pli=1#gid=0
//Bellistor
Thank you very much for your work.
Weapon Master by itself is 7.5% crit chance with 5 stacks and the artifact class feature gives you 4% more (should be 5%, bug reported and ignored)
I see where my math was going wrong, I thought weapon master only stacked 3 times thank you for your reply.
No target cap damage debuff & threat generation AKA your DPS is ingoing to increase dramatically if you aren't chasing mobs around the map due to overzealous CWs.
I mean, you can do all the number crunching possible, but all that is a reflection of is total *potential*, not indicative of player dynamics. #1 enemy to GWF DPS is other players. If you don't mitigate that, then your DPS will suck.
If i recall correct, one of the major nerfs it received was a 5 target cap.
Definitely hits more than 5 targets.
The word "Definitely" is so... mercyless. I searched for "Slam + target cap":
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?392521-%28PSA%29-Avalanche-of-Steel-does-not-have-target-cap-of-5/page2
Perhaps we can do better and provide a log extract with activated timestamp (chat options)... I will do this when I'm back home soon...
//Bellistor
...I don´t know. I came in, read the post and thought "NO, only 5...".
Now I testet it to be sure:
[19:39] [Combat (Other)] Summoning Portal's Imp loses 219 Physical Damage from falling.
[19:39] [Combat (Self)] Your Slam deals 570 Physical Damage to Summoning Portal's Imp.
[19:39] [Combat (Self)] Your Slam deals 497 Physical Damage to Summoning Portal's Imp.
[19:39] [Combat (Self)] Your Slam deals 566 Physical Damage to Summoning Portal's Imp.
[19:39] [Combat (Self)] Your Slam deals 579 Physical Damage to Summoning Portal's Imp.
[19:39] [Combat (Self)] Your Slam deals 515 Physical Damage to Summoning Portal's Imp.
[19:39] [Combat (Other)] Summoning Portal's Imp loses 219 Physical Damage from falling.
I alway hit 5 mobs. Even if there are 40. The 5 are picked at random each wave.
//Bellistor
ps:yea, you hit 5 numbers, that wouldn't be a problem, but dont you see the damage you do ? its really really low, and it doesn't get multiplied or it doesn't crit. if this daily gets a fix it will help the dps of gwf in PVE.
If I have enough ArP to ignore 24% Armor, will I get benefits from other's debuffs that lower defense like terror enchantment, CW's High Vizier set, TR's wicked reminder, 'Student of the Sword' feat etc?
I believe in some cases ArP is better even overcapped. E.G. Dread Ring T3 boon: +3% Deflect severity (considered it is bugged) or 250 ArP. With 'Disciple of War' feat we get 25% of arp as Power. so it is like 62.5 bonus power - not much but still better than 51.5% deflect severity, i suppose.
Archmage's Ring vs Archmage's Belt vs Ring of Pain:
AM's ring bonus: 250 Power, 250 ArP and extra slot for 300 Defense (10 Azure). Power bonus 250+250*0.25 (Disciple of War feat)+300*0.2 (Steely Defense heroic feat)=372.5 or 2.24% bonus dmg
Ring of Pain bonus: 181 Power, 138 CS, 181 Recovery. Power bonus 181+181*0.25 (Disciple of War feat)=226.25 or 1.36% bonus dmg
Also 138 CS is about +0.26% critical chance (If we have 3.7k-3.8k), and with 0.75+0.05 (Orc Race)+0.15 (Devastating Critical heroic feat)+0.5(P.Vorp)+0.02 (IWD t3 boon)+0.05 (ToD t5 boon) = 152% Crit Damage 0.26*1.52=0.39%
Sum up RoP's DPS bonus: 1.0136*1.0039=1.0176 or 1.76% bonus dmg (and 181 recovery as well).
AM's belt bonus: 250+300*0.2 (10 Azure in defense slot) = 310 Power or 1.86% bonus dmg, 250 CS is about 0.5% critical chance with Crit Dmg 152% it is +0.76% DPS
Sum up belt DPS bonus: 1.0076*1.0186=1.0263 or 2.63% bonus dmg
Ioun Stone of Choice:
Minimal BiS Gear ArP bonus: 298 (Belt)+350 Artifact (Kessel's or Lantern)+250 (Golden Dragon weapon set)+153 (Ioun stone of Might or Black Dragon Ioun Stone) = 1051. With CON 14 according https://www.desmos.com/calculator/3dqpvhuavj we need ArP 1970-2000, so 4 AM's rings work fine (2 in Ioun stone).
In conclussion we choose 2.24% dmg from archmage's ring with Black Dragon Ioun Stone or 2.63% from Might/Radiance.
Please note this math works if you pick Steely Defense and Disciple of war feats to utilize your Defense, Recovery and ArP in Power
Hi, I'm very sorry for the late reply, I didn't see the post until now.
Regarding to your first question, Yes, you will get full benefit other's debuff even if your ArPen is 24%. The problem about the Stat power is that is not as good as it looks once you reach a certain amount, please take a look at this link which will take you to Kaelac's Guide about Crit, Power and DPS, I kindly ask you to check the section 3 Crit vs Power where he explains how Power works at high levels and then the following link where Kaelac explains the mechanics of Neverwinted related to damage, buffs, debuffs, etc.
Knowing this, the reason I choosed the deflect severity in this case isn't due to his usefulness but ArPen being too much high for my build and the gain in Power isn't noticeable.
I did the maths some time ago, the best ioun stone for a GWF is Might/Radiance followed by BDIS as I mentioned in the 2nd post, however, this might change in Mod6 since the % varies according to the character lvl and it's going be raised to 70, so we might need much more ArPen i.e, so we just need a bit more of information about the next module before we start getting conclusions about gear.
It was "fixed" long ago. It used to deliver some damage but the devs explained they wanted to make it a mere "utility" daily.
It had good utility when it "one-shot" Valindra in Malabogs Castle
/topic=true
1- Why Destroyer on single target DPS? does it proc even on single target?
2- Why Mighty leap for aoe?
Hi, thank you very much!
Regarding to your questions:
1 - The 4th feat in the Destroyer tree is "Focused Destroyer" it also grants you a chance to activate it hitting any number of enemies, up to 25% per hit.
2 - Mighty Leap can be used in both defense and ofense, it allows you to avoid dmg if you use in the right moment, it gives you a very nice mobility and it doesn't have a target cap so you can hit many enemies.
Mmm ok!
One last question, why DEX belt over STR belt? isn't better having more %Damage bonus than %Crit chance?