Not defending the clerics properly doesn't usually matter much. You usually have 3 full rounds anyway, and if you're good enough to defend properly, you should be good enough to do it in 3.
Not defending the clerics properly doesn't usually matter much. You usually have 3 full rounds anyway, and if you're good enough to defend properly, you should be good enough to do it in 3.
I have been in a few where defending the cleric took up to seven mins on the first two attempts, so no it leads to a fail period!
People seem to want "easy win" or nothing at all. Why do people not want to fight anymore for a last-minute win?
I've yet to see a close win even when people stay. My experience is that it's either 2.5 heads down (min) in the first round or it will fail every time, presence of afk'ers or not. I've yet to see that rule get broken.
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vinceent1Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,264Arc User
edited January 2015
i have seen many times only two heads down at first round and still beating tiamat. it depends on "luck", sometimes green head aoe devastating zerg and slow down a lot
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tripsofthrymrMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,624Community Moderator
I've yet to see a close win even when people stay. My experience is that it's either 2.5 heads down (min) in the first round or it will fail every time, presence of afk'ers or not. I've yet to see that rule get broken.
I have won with 8 seconds and with 15 seconds remaining in the last few days. Someone posted earlier that they lost even though 0:02 remained on the clock because the despawn animation counted too, so they ran out of time.
Not defending the clerics properly doesn't usually matter much. You usually have 3 full rounds anyway, and if you're good enough to defend properly, you should be good enough to do it in 3.
Look - the optimal control strategy for defending the clerics is to have 1 GF per spawn point (4 total) just taunt the adds and kite them around, while everyone else just stands around picking their noses. Because then you don't have adds respawning and the GFs have all the aggro, not the clerics. If you do this, then you should get 5 rounds easy with the heads.
I have doubts whether this strategy would work as mobs seem designed to kill everyone in 1-2 hits and even if you are no longer in the spot they targeted you, you still run a high risk of being hit by them with full damage.
I have doubts whether this strategy would work as mobs seem designed to kill everyone in 1-2 hits and even if you are no longer in the spot they targeted you, you still run a high risk of being hit by them with full damage.
I think that's lag. With my Fury SW I usually end up tanking a spawn and leading them to IT's and ST's. The only time I've experienced this is while lagging.
I haven't had any lag yet today in three runs (with everything turned down to minimum), but I reminded myself today why I stopped doing Tiamat.
I park my HR far in front of Linu a foot from the cliff edge. I'm pulling adds like crazy, up to 6 at a time. I'm bobbing and weaving, dodging like mad, and burning up life stone charges like water. With buffs I've got 40k HP and almost 50% damage resistance. The devils and erinyes' want me dead BADLY, but I'm holding their attention just above the abyss.
And...the CW, who is standing resolutely on Linu uses ice knife.
Yeah.
The DC? Standing resolutely beside the CW.
Silly me for trying. I'm going back to doing the Dragon Hoard Treasure campaign task every day.
At least one CW on the first run got the hint. We were all the way on the leftmost cleric and I'm all the way in the back, right at the edge. Just the two of us managed to keep the cleric clear long enough for it to max out first.
Harper Chronicles: Cap Snatchers (RELEASED) - NW-DPUTABC6X Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
My Foundry playthrough channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Ruskaga/featured
There seriously needs to be a strong DIS-incentive to hiding at the camp. I was 0 for 8 tonight, with all but the last run having lots of people just staying at the camp.
Well, all but the last two. I remembered something on the second-to-last run.
HR's are aggro magnets.
When half a dozen people are just staying at the campfire, an aggro magnet can anger all of the adds around Linu and pull them into the room. What's more, when you have aggro, the dragons just might decide to target you -- in the room.
That got it cleared out pretty quickly.
It's only a workaround, though. A better one would be: if the players fail the HE, anyone who spent more than two minutes total in the foyer gets nothing.
Until then, I'll be using my aggro-magnet ability to maximum effect.
Harper Chronicles: Cap Snatchers (RELEASED) - NW-DPUTABC6X Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
My Foundry playthrough channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Ruskaga/featured
The 10k GS crowd are just scapegoats, by and large, for failed Tiamat runs.
Much more to blame are people who don't know what they are doing, and my biggest pet peeve, the HIGH GS crowd who give up early even when it is still winnable.
The last failed Tiamat raid I was in, when it came time for the first head phase, that went okay but not great, 10 people immediately left the raid and another 4 AFK'ed by the campfire. I inspected one of the leavers on his way out, and it was not a 10k GS scrub, but a 20k CW.
(Oh, and a particularly classy move on his part was when he said "you suck n00bs" on his way out.)
People seem to want "easy win" or nothing at all. Why do people not want to fight anymore for a last-minute win?
It seems like if things don't look like a slam dunk right off the first round, the "oh so L33T" players bail, which kills it for everyone.
Any chance we could have a 24hr Tiamat ban for players that leave before the 10 minute mark or spend more 2 minutes at the foyer, or stay 'dead' on the battlefield? That should at least keep people fighting.
If there can be only one, why do they always make a sequel?
It seems like if things don't look like a slam dunk right off the first round, the "oh so L33T" players bail, which kills it for everyone.
Any chance we could have a 24hr Tiamat ban for players that leave before the 10 minute mark or spend more 2 minutes at the foyer, or stay 'dead' on the battlefield? That should at least keep people fighting.
You do realize that maybe 15% of runs bug out so that there is nothing to do but sit at the campfire right?
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palad1nMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited January 2015
PWE, please, please, PLEASE, fix this freakin fight. I'm ready to dump this game for good. I'm so sick of going into fights with people that shouldn't be there (whether due to gear, afk, leave early, WHATEVER) and then doing nothing but LOSING Tiamat fights all day. I currently spent my evening losing 5 Tiamat fights in a row due to these issues. I won't say it's completely a GS issue, yet I am confused as to why the minimum GS for ELOL and ESOT are 13k and it's only 10k for Tiamat? Please fix this, I guarantee you you are burning bridges with your players.
PWE, please, please, PLEASE, fix this freakin fight. I'm ready to dump this game for good. I'm so sick of going into fights with people that shouldn't be there (whether due to gear, afk, leave early, WHATEVER) and then doing nothing but LOSING Tiamat fights all day. I currently spent my evening losing 5 Tiamat fights in a row due to these issues. I won't say it's completely a GS issue, yet I am confused as to why the minimum GS for ELOL and ESOT are 13k and it's only 10k for Tiamat? Please fix this, I guarantee you you are burning bridges with your players.
The bridges aren't burning, they've gone up in smoke. I'd hoped common sense would have kicked in at Cryptic. People play games to have fun. This encounter has potential to be fun, in it's present state it is anything but fun. Not being able to party up and enter with guildies or friends was yet another sign the developers have lost touch with their players. It saddens me to see so many people just say "***-- it" and not bother logging in. My guild has always been bustling and thriving, particularly on weekends. This past Saturday evening there were 4 players on. People have already stopped playing...and if they're not playing they're definitely not paying. I've not seen another peep about this encounter from the devs since the first 'patch' which amounted to a broken promise followed up with weak excuses. I've sunk a fair amount of money into this game, can't say I'm really interested in spending one more $ until it looks like it may survive. Fixing the bugs would be a good start, but reconfiguring it to accept grouped players (ie not splitting friends at the entrance) is critical. Anything less and it will continue to be a show stopper for me.
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jhozamMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 44
edited January 2015
Hi all,
first of all, sorry for my poor english, don't blame me if I make too many blunders :P
My main char is a GWF 21k GS, I just did with blood and tears my 2nd boon on final Tyranny of the Dragons and I have some suggestions for devs, because really I average a success in five attempts.
1) 10k GS to enter is too low, if you dont want to change anything to the encounter, i think it need to be raised to 15k. People will cry? It's not my problem, they can run lower DGs to equip their chars, then can run Tiamat.
In my opinion if you say 10k GS is sufficient to win the encounter, it means that 25 chars ALL with 10k GS can finish it. Try to test that, probably, if they can overcome the phase of clerics (and i think NO), they do not pass the first Black head. So 10k GS to enter is WRONG.
2) Ok you want to keep 10k GS to enter (because people really cry a lot) so you can use a ranking for the encounter. If the encounter will fail, almost who has contributed a good supply of DPS (say the first 5-6) can get a linu's favor.
3) You do not want anything above. Ok: let us forming party so.
Thank you all, sorry if I do not speak English too well
Jhozam
Jhozam, DDO player since March 2006 (2006-2009 on Devourer server, 2009-2012 on Cannith server)
Proud Officer of Ordo Draconis, DDO Italian Elite Guild
now up on Neverwinter Online, member of Ordo Obscuri Domini, Italian Guild
0
hellratedMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited January 2015
I hope the requirements to get the books needed for the last few Tyranny of Dragons campaign boons get reduced. The requirements at the campaign store is just too much. Currently require 100 of each campaign token just to get 1 book , and don't even get me started on the drop rate of the "first two" books while the drop rate of the third book (giving by doing tiamat) is pretty good..
In-game Characters: Raba Leo - 16k GWF | Raba Dharma - 15.5k CW | Raba Chanda - 15k TR | Raba Karma - 14k HR PURE F2P, so far..
PWE, please, please, PLEASE, fix this freakin fight. I'm ready to dump this game for good. I'm so sick of going into fights with people that shouldn't be there (whether due to gear, afk, leave early, WHATEVER) and then doing nothing but LOSING Tiamat fights all day. I currently spent my evening losing 5 Tiamat fights in a row due to these issues. I won't say it's completely a GS issue, yet I am confused as to why the minimum GS for ELOL and ESOT are 13k and it's only 10k for Tiamat? Please fix this, I guarantee you you are burning bridges with your players.
Ya, what i suggest is have a minimum GS (about 13-14k) requirement or better yet, what if there was a requirement for players to at least finish 2-3 out of 5 campaigns/modules before entering "well of dragons".
In-game Characters: Raba Leo - 16k GWF | Raba Dharma - 15.5k CW | Raba Chanda - 15k TR | Raba Karma - 14k HR PURE F2P, so far..
0
jhozamMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 44
<snip> If you can't figure that out for yourself, I suggest simply refraining from posting period.
I gladly accept that you disagree with my ideas. But I also think to be free to write my thoughts.
Thank You
Jhozam, DDO player since March 2006 (2006-2009 on Devourer server, 2009-2012 on Cannith server)
Proud Officer of Ordo Draconis, DDO Italian Elite Guild
now up on Neverwinter Online, member of Ordo Obscuri Domini, Italian Guild
If you're 21k and have a success rate of 20% I'd strongly recommend joining one out the high GS channels and use their timers.
The only fails I'm getting are due to bugs.
I did, but unfortunately the loading times are bad.
What I do not understand is why having a channel-only 20k+ (where people try to exclude low levels) is not selfish, but my proposals are
Jhozam, DDO player since March 2006 (2006-2009 on Devourer server, 2009-2012 on Cannith server)
Proud Officer of Ordo Draconis, DDO Italian Elite Guild
now up on Neverwinter Online, member of Ordo Obscuri Domini, Italian Guild
0
jiubiizeekkMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 144Arc User
edited January 2015
The way you've said it makes all high tire players seem like they dont like progression if it was 15k + it would be 90% chance of winning 10% bugged, honestly the only problem is people cant seem to use their class with the instance in mind. A 10k DC using full buffs and debuffs is better than a 20k that is only healing everyone. And vice versa, a 21k GWF might be built for pvp with low dps, where as a 15k GWF might be built for pve with high dps, you tell me whats better in this "race against time" U cant judge a book by the cover your arrogance will be your undoing that's why people don't like when people talk with their wallets.
0
jhozamMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 44
edited January 2015
I think I just said what the rest of the people do but quietly with dedicated channels or private messages before the encounter start
Jhozam, DDO player since March 2006 (2006-2009 on Devourer server, 2009-2012 on Cannith server)
Proud Officer of Ordo Draconis, DDO Italian Elite Guild
now up on Neverwinter Online, member of Ordo Obscuri Domini, Italian Guild
Really you folks are treating two related problems as if they were two seperate problems. Basically at this point Tiamat is the only PVE content where GS matters. In all other content you can choose your team because you can que as a group. This means that you can take people based on your experience of their competance for literally everything in the game except Tiamat. Sopeople will continue to use high GS channels for timed entry. Because while it might not get your whole team into the same instance it will get 8-12 high GS players into your instance. Meaning the other 17-13 player will have a statistically average GS distribution.Meaning that the odds of clearing the instance will go up dramatically on raw stats because you cannot plan for competance or coordination or... planning. You can only attempt to overwhelm the possibilty of having incompetence with raw power. This is Mod5 endgame content.
Comments
I have been in a few where defending the cleric took up to seven mins on the first two attempts, so no it leads to a fail period!
I've yet to see a close win even when people stay. My experience is that it's either 2.5 heads down (min) in the first round or it will fail every time, presence of afk'ers or not. I've yet to see that rule get broken.
I have won with 8 seconds and with 15 seconds remaining in the last few days. Someone posted earlier that they lost even though 0:02 remained on the clock because the despawn animation counted too, so they ran out of time.
Sci-fi author: The Gods We Make, The Gods We Seek, and Ji-min
Look - the optimal control strategy for defending the clerics is to have 1 GF per spawn point (4 total) just taunt the adds and kite them around, while everyone else just stands around picking their noses. Because then you don't have adds respawning and the GFs have all the aggro, not the clerics. If you do this, then you should get 5 rounds easy with the heads.
I think that's lag. With my Fury SW I usually end up tanking a spawn and leading them to IT's and ST's. The only time I've experienced this is while lagging.
I park my HR far in front of Linu a foot from the cliff edge. I'm pulling adds like crazy, up to 6 at a time. I'm bobbing and weaving, dodging like mad, and burning up life stone charges like water. With buffs I've got 40k HP and almost 50% damage resistance. The devils and erinyes' want me dead BADLY, but I'm holding their attention just above the abyss.
And...the CW, who is standing resolutely on Linu uses ice knife.
Yeah.
The DC? Standing resolutely beside the CW.
Silly me for trying. I'm going back to doing the Dragon Hoard Treasure campaign task every day.
At least one CW on the first run got the hint. We were all the way on the leftmost cleric and I'm all the way in the back, right at the edge. Just the two of us managed to keep the cleric clear long enough for it to max out first.
Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO
Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF
Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP
The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
My Foundry playthrough channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Ruskaga/featured
Well, all but the last two. I remembered something on the second-to-last run.
HR's are aggro magnets.
When half a dozen people are just staying at the campfire, an aggro magnet can anger all of the adds around Linu and pull them into the room. What's more, when you have aggro, the dragons just might decide to target you -- in the room.
That got it cleared out pretty quickly.
It's only a workaround, though. A better one would be: if the players fail the HE, anyone who spent more than two minutes total in the foyer gets nothing.
Until then, I'll be using my aggro-magnet ability to maximum effect.
Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO
Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF
Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP
The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
My Foundry playthrough channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Ruskaga/featured
It seems like if things don't look like a slam dunk right off the first round, the "oh so L33T" players bail, which kills it for everyone.
Any chance we could have a 24hr Tiamat ban for players that leave before the 10 minute mark or spend more 2 minutes at the foyer, or stay 'dead' on the battlefield? That should at least keep people fighting.
You do realize that maybe 15% of runs bug out so that there is nothing to do but sit at the campfire right?
The bridges aren't burning, they've gone up in smoke. I'd hoped common sense would have kicked in at Cryptic. People play games to have fun. This encounter has potential to be fun, in it's present state it is anything but fun. Not being able to party up and enter with guildies or friends was yet another sign the developers have lost touch with their players. It saddens me to see so many people just say "***-- it" and not bother logging in. My guild has always been bustling and thriving, particularly on weekends. This past Saturday evening there were 4 players on. People have already stopped playing...and if they're not playing they're definitely not paying. I've not seen another peep about this encounter from the devs since the first 'patch' which amounted to a broken promise followed up with weak excuses. I've sunk a fair amount of money into this game, can't say I'm really interested in spending one more $ until it looks like it may survive. Fixing the bugs would be a good start, but reconfiguring it to accept grouped players (ie not splitting friends at the entrance) is critical. Anything less and it will continue to be a show stopper for me.
first of all, sorry for my poor english, don't blame me if I make too many blunders :P
My main char is a GWF 21k GS, I just did with blood and tears my 2nd boon on final Tyranny of the Dragons and I have some suggestions for devs, because really I average a success in five attempts.
1) 10k GS to enter is too low, if you dont want to change anything to the encounter, i think it need to be raised to 15k. People will cry? It's not my problem, they can run lower DGs to equip their chars, then can run Tiamat.
In my opinion if you say 10k GS is sufficient to win the encounter, it means that 25 chars ALL with 10k GS can finish it. Try to test that, probably, if they can overcome the phase of clerics (and i think NO), they do not pass the first Black head. So 10k GS to enter is WRONG.
2) Ok you want to keep 10k GS to enter (because people really cry a lot) so you can use a ranking for the encounter. If the encounter will fail, almost who has contributed a good supply of DPS (say the first 5-6) can get a linu's favor.
3) You do not want anything above. Ok: let us forming party so.
Thank you all, sorry if I do not speak English too well
Jhozam
Proud Officer of Ordo Draconis, DDO Italian Elite Guild
now up on Neverwinter Online, member of Ordo Obscuri Domini, Italian Guild
Raba Leo - 16k GWF | Raba Dharma - 15.5k CW | Raba Chanda - 15k TR | Raba Karma - 14k HR
PURE F2P, so far..
Ya, what i suggest is have a minimum GS (about 13-14k) requirement or better yet, what if there was a requirement for players to at least finish 2-3 out of 5 campaigns/modules before entering "well of dragons".
Raba Leo - 16k GWF | Raba Dharma - 15.5k CW | Raba Chanda - 15k TR | Raba Karma - 14k HR
PURE F2P, so far..
I gladly accept that you disagree with my ideas. But I also think to be free to write my thoughts.
Thank You
Proud Officer of Ordo Draconis, DDO Italian Elite Guild
now up on Neverwinter Online, member of Ordo Obscuri Domini, Italian Guild
The only fails I'm getting are due to bugs.
You'd think that wouldn't you (to an extent). Not the case unfortunately.
I did, but unfortunately the loading times are bad.
What I do not understand is why having a channel-only 20k+ (where people try to exclude low levels) is not selfish, but my proposals are
Proud Officer of Ordo Draconis, DDO Italian Elite Guild
now up on Neverwinter Online, member of Ordo Obscuri Domini, Italian Guild
Proud Officer of Ordo Draconis, DDO Italian Elite Guild
now up on Neverwinter Online, member of Ordo Obscuri Domini, Italian Guild