The way you've said it makes all high tire players seem like they dont like progression if it was 15k + it would be 90% chance of winning 10% bugged, honestly the only problem is people cant seem to use their class with the instance in mind. A 10k DC using full buffs and debuffs is better than a 20k that is only healing everyone. And vice versa, a 21k GWF might be built for pvp with low dps, where as a 15k GWF might be built for pve with high dps, you tell me whats better in this "race against time" U cant judge a book by the cover your arrogance will be your undoing that's why people don't like when people talk with their wallets.
And a 20k DC using debuffs is better than a 10k using debuffs. What's your point? It's more likely that the 20k would be doing so as they've invested more into their character, whereas the 10k hasn't been playing that character for as long, and if they have then they clearly have no idea what they're doing.
15k is a little on the high side though, but min requires should be getting higher. It's just common sense.
And to think how many times less Tiamat would fail if only they would give time for one more wave of clerics/heads...
..... That so isn't the problem. There is nothing inherently wrong with the time limit that is there. Lets try for bug fixes here not screaming nerf it. It's not like it's even hard content.
You do realize that maybe 15% of runs bug out so that there is nothing to do but sit at the campfire right?
Ok, so 15% bugged. I've seen that, had it happen to me as well.
Out of the other 85% I'd guess 20-40% more would be viable to win if everyone kept fighting rather than complaining and standing at the door typing, "stoooooopppppp, it's over" after the first complete cleric/head round. They'd actually be, as others have said, the most memorable fights.
Don't get me wrong, I love the fights where we are basically waiting for the devils to spawn and it's over (victoriously) in the late second or early third round, and that's when there's a majority of high GS players.
If there can be only one, why do they always make a sequel?
Overall it seems smoother indeed but from time to time I still encounter lags in Tiamat, especially at heads. Similar lags also hit at Heralds, e.g. Black Dragons give me a huge lag just when passing them by even if noone is fighting them at the moment. The other dragons seem to cause lag in connection with some skill/debuff used only (although with 30+ of those stacked it's hard to guess which could it be).
We killed the dragon heads with about three seconds to spare. Everything freezes for a couple of seconds, then we hear "No! I cannot be stopped!" which signifies that we ran out of time on that phase (there was still three minutes left on the overall raid timer). The clerics tell us she's coming back, but then...
The clerics are cheering, and no more adds come. I get a "Contest Finished" popup (which includes a Draconic Templar armor piece). However, the adds that were there when we killed the heads are still there, and we dispatch them. No one can open the chest, and in three minutes Elminster turns back time and we get a "failed" message.
I can't even begin to explain this one.
Harper Chronicles: Cap Snatchers (RELEASED) - NW-DPUTABC6X Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
My Foundry playthrough channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Ruskaga/featured
We killed the dragon heads with about three seconds to spare. Everything freezes for a couple of seconds, then we hear "No! I cannot be stopped!" which signifies that we ran out of time on that phase (there was still three minutes left on the overall raid timer). The clerics tell us she's coming back, but then...
The clerics are cheering, and no more adds come. I get a "Contest Finished" popup (which includes a Draconic Templar armor piece). However, the adds that were there when we killed the heads are still there, and we dispatch them. No one can open the chest, and in three minutes Elminster turns back time and we get a "failed" message.
I can't even begin to explain this one.
The last head needs to die with at least 10 secs or so to spare or the animation doesn't finish and it bugs.
Well, i wittnessed 6 attempts on this "challenge" now. Everytime i ended up with 25 random people who rarely had a higher gearscore than mine (which is about 16.6k). We lost all battles. Since i have not been playing this encounter often, i am only able to give some first impressions. First of all: The encounter feels "lazy". Enemies superhard, Players superweak, done. Invisble AoE can one shot 30k+ HP players in an instant.
Nobody - in any of the few encounters i played - seemed to have ANY idea what to do. Let's get to the left everyone, hit some guy, press "F" and get some stuff (which magically replaces your healing potions in their slot). Then go and run for some dudes, kill them and last but not least let's protect some clerics.
Let's run to the middle, because for some reason there seems to be some devil-gathering-camp.
So everyone fights devils (who don't have any problems to beat down 10k GS players with one hit). Some of us pop healing potions. Some don't. They pop dragonsouls instead. At least we feel protected now, while we get beaten up by a bunch of almost unkillable devils.
And so the battle continues and those who are not on cooldown to pop dragonsouls, when fighting the head (of course, the left one first), actually pop the dragonsoul to get protection. Sometimes it's even the right dragonsoul per head.
Meanwhile i for myself completely fail to understand the situation. It's chaos, no communication, no coordination, nothing that would help me - as the confused player i am - to master this encounter with the random folks i have met with. Because there isn't any teaming, at least none i was able to notice. We all go for everything and the status bars on the right are not very helpful, since players do not interpret them equally. Those with more experience might be able to do that. A team of 25 able to SPEAK or chat with each others might be able to do that. But a random group of people who spend much of their time at the respawning-point because they are easily killed will not be able to do that, at least not in the short timeframe for this encounter.
No. This isn't a 10k GS encounter nor does it work as a teamevent of any sort if strangers meet. If so, then devs are either awesome players or never tested this.
Another thing that really bugs me is this reclaimation-thingy. Ok, even if you are not playing this day, you might as well donate some coins for helping other players in this "challenge". It's ok for me, since in return i get 1 (in words: ONE) linus favor for 1500 dragon hoardcoins.
My favourite hobby in this game is killing dragons. Such encounters give you about 5 coins (average). So you only need to kill around 4500 dragons and can then buy an offhand-artifact weapon of your choice, yay! I am aware, there's the dragonhoard-coffer-alternative. Nevermind, just as tedious.
So while it's possible to donate coins to help other players (and unlock better rewards in case they actually WIN the encounter) the daily price for this is simply over the top, if not on the best way to insanity.
Dragons in the Well of Dragons give 10-15 coins per kill, which, of course, does not make grinding Linus considerably faster, just a cosmetic difference.
The invisible 1-hitting aoe is probably Blue head attack which can hit miles away from its circle (and twice at that) because of how awesomely it has been programmed.
No, I don't think devs are awesome players. As for them testing stuff, it reminds me of dragon overload enchantments which could only be tested by devs before going live and they apparently never were till they turned up to be a major screwover of the gameplay.
Dragons in the Well of Dragons give 10-15 coins per kill, which, of course, does not make grinding Linus considerably faster, just a cosmetic difference.
The invisible 1-hitting aoe is probably Blue head attack which can hit miles away from its circle (and twice at that) because of how awesomely it has been programmed.
No, I don't think devs are awesome players. As for them testing stuff, it reminds me of dragon overload enchantments which could only be tested by devs before going live and they apparently never were till they turned up to be a major screwover of the gameplay.
Oh, i am so used to the unrewarding experience of killing dragons in this game, that in fact i never noticed it's that MANY dragon hoard coins you can get in the well of dragons Anyway, when dragons are up in WoD and a bazillion of players hunts them as fast as possible, it feels to me like watching a flip-book. The lag i experience in those hunts is incredible, which is why i don't often go for dragons there.
I have not yet figured out what the invisible AoE's source might be, but you are probably right, that it's one of the heads. Other annoyances there are those staggering effects on the players, while enemies happily hit 25000 HP out of them. The entire fight feels poorly made (regarding the enemies) yet utterly expensive for the players who waste time/energy/potions and injury kits on it, well knowing, that it's a lost encounter again.
Ok, I can't believe it took me this long to see that they are not planning to move over to a queue as I have been waiting to do Tiamat once they implemented one.
Even if they do not add a queue, something needs to be done, here's why:
This is an MMO
MMO's are games we play with friends
Tiamat is a raid
Raids are played with friends and guildies
In Neverwinter, raids are played with PUGs that like bugging your instance
At least, give us the option to enter with our current party into the same instance, even if there isn't a queue. I mean for god's sake, this is ridiculous
zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
edited January 2015
Moderator Notice:
While I also agree that we should be able to at least choose our party of 5 to queue, posting in this manner is akin to an ultimatum or threat and we cannot allow that, as specified in the Rules. So, please don't post with such intentions, conveyance, or action. That is not constructive. It's clear this is a hot topic, as it has stayed up here even after it was unstickied. So there is no need to bump it like that, which is also not allowed. Let the normal discussion keep it alive in itself -- for that is the best feedback, as such shows true community desire. Thanks!
Safe travels,
Archmage Zebular of Mystryl PWE Community Moderator
[ RoC | ToS | Support ]
Here's my daily post, as we still can't enter Tiamat with our friends....
Even though I'm the only one so far who's doing this, I'm sure I'm not the only one feeling this way. If anyone agrees with me, please follow suit and try to post in this thread daily, or as often as you can. It doesn't need to be a novel, a simple sentence will suffice.
I'll be back tomorrow
(For those of you feeling confused, I committed to posting daily until something is done to let us run Tiamat with at least the people in our party.)
Honestly, I don't think anything will be done, no matter what. I think at this point Tiamat is done and unless something in it starts crashing the server I don't think anyone will ever look at it's code again.
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lirithielMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,482Arc User
edited January 2015
Yeah I'm not even bothering with the 7th ToD boon - so not worth the investment for such pittance in stat increase. My second and third toons are working their way to the 6th boon - 10 and 30 respectively to go and I'm done with Laggybug.
I really was looking forward to doing Tiamat with four of my guildies in a group, which meant we may have been able to do it as was meant but sadly the devs reneged on their previous plans and so here we are still zerging in 2015.
Our pain is self chosen.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
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urlord283Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,084Arc User
edited January 2015
My only problem is I am unable to find the components to get the weapon...
So, after playing this "challenge" more often i was finally able to collect enough Linu's Favor to buy me an offhand. I have stopped counting those encounters but i would guess i played about 30-40 of them now and just after i bought my offhand yesterday, i decided for myself, that i will likely not bother with tiamat anymore, even though LF's might be needed to gain some better gear and boons.
Since WoD is bugged for me (i don't get any quests there), i cannot earn the currencies anyway, which is why i will not even get close to a complete templar set. Doesn't matter much. The boons, that require an insane ammount of LF's aren't worth it either.
The encounter still feels lazy, but random PUGs seem to have more and more problems with disheartened AFK'ers who rather warm their feet at the campfire than actually PLAY this encounter. It's very obvious, that people only take on this lagfest in order to gain LF's. Investing anything (time,energy,potions,injury-kits) in a lost encounter leads to almost nowhere else than a few (really lame) RP one can gain quicker elsewhere and perhaps some random drop like a bag or so. And even if the team managed to win the encounter, i didn't get anything better than a few (really lame) RP and a boring armor that doesn't even sell at the AH. And btw, i never scored last in any of those encounters.
IMO (as a rather **** casual player) this encounter is as challenging and deadly for me as for many i have fought it with. It should be rewarded just to give it a try, and no, some (really lame) 500 RP are not motivating at all. They are discouraging and also lead to many people having a relaxed cup of coffee during the fight if they deem the fight a lost cause. They will get the (really lame) RP anyway.
I have seen a few battles, where it was really darn close to winning the encounter. But then some people died and couldn't be bothered with joining the battle again as they saw it lost. And lost battles never pay. Hence a bunch of people dragged the entire encounter down, making it fail and causing quite a lot of fun in the zone-chat. So not only is the encounter rather unrewarding, it also seems rather counterproductive to the community as a whole, because it doesn't make people play together. Quite the opposite actually, because e.g. high GS try to avoid instances with low GS at any cost.
We sometimes lost the encounter in an epic struggle, which was a fun experience. We couldn't do the damage needed, but didn't give it up, no matter what. I personally like this playstyle, but i perfectly understand people who don't want to bother with it, especially if there is no reward for playing this way.
But often we lost the encounter, because of the epic demotivation of people for whom it makes no sense to continue the fight. Many tasks/dungeons/skirmishes in this game encourage that behaviour, the laziness of people and the "we will not carry low GS people"-attitude.
Those AFkers are rewarded either way. A win get them an favour, a loss can produce stuff like a dragon egg. Losing really should not give such good rewards. It only encourages that sort of behaviour.
IMO, what encourages that behaviour is the fact, that people who stop doing anything still get a reward. I think a player who just doesn't give up and at least tries hard to deal some damage is worth more than some bloke who stands by and watches you, while you are trying to defend the clerics on white - alone.
Mybe, they should put a timer on the priests, too. If you cant get to another dragon phase in 5-8 minutes, your team gets booted from the instance. This way ppl have to try at last and wont go AFK at the campfire for their reward.
I know, that this would hurt the ones doing their best, but what do you prefer, a chance to win, bc ppl have to keep fighting, or 500 RP and maybe a dragon egg.
I would prefer, if they would use the GG que system. Ppl would have better chances with forced groups, 5 player premades and 20 ppl, than this sloppy thing now.
Mybe, they should put a timer on the priests, too. If you cant get to another dragon phase in 5-8 minutes, your team gets booted from the instance. This way ppl have to try at last and wont go AFK at the campfire for their reward.
I know, that this would hurt the ones doing their best, but what do you prefer, a chance to win, bc ppl have to keep fighting, or 500 RP and maybe a dragon egg.
I would prefer, if they would use the GG que system. Ppl would have better chances with forced groups, 5 player premades and 20 ppl, than this sloppy thing now.
i think groups would absolutely make sense, since this might "glue" people together. They are less likely to give up if they are in groups (at least i would assume that). The current timers often felt quite harsh to me already, i am not sure if it would work to put the people even more under pressure.
Would likely also lead to more "low dps = no dps" discussions, so tiamat would become a kind of elite-only-event i am afraid.
Oops katamaster81899, you are correct. It was in response to you. I went looking for my first post and when I couldn't find it and saw that mod post in about the same place....well, you know. My deepest apologies to the moderator I quoted! Please disregard what I said.
Comments
And a 20k DC using debuffs is better than a 10k using debuffs. What's your point? It's more likely that the 20k would be doing so as they've invested more into their character, whereas the 10k hasn't been playing that character for as long, and if they have then they clearly have no idea what they're doing.
15k is a little on the high side though, but min requires should be getting higher. It's just common sense.
So you will have to be patient for anything to change in this game at the moment.
Fantastic servers we have here on Neverwinter with this Tiamat fight.
..... That so isn't the problem. There is nothing inherently wrong with the time limit that is there. Lets try for bug fixes here not screaming nerf it. It's not like it's even hard content.
Ok, so 15% bugged. I've seen that, had it happen to me as well.
Out of the other 85% I'd guess 20-40% more would be viable to win if everyone kept fighting rather than complaining and standing at the door typing, "stoooooopppppp, it's over" after the first complete cleric/head round. They'd actually be, as others have said, the most memorable fights.
Don't get me wrong, I love the fights where we are basically waiting for the devils to spawn and it's over (victoriously) in the late second or early third round, and that's when there's a majority of high GS players.
We killed the dragon heads with about three seconds to spare. Everything freezes for a couple of seconds, then we hear "No! I cannot be stopped!" which signifies that we ran out of time on that phase (there was still three minutes left on the overall raid timer). The clerics tell us she's coming back, but then...
The clerics are cheering, and no more adds come. I get a "Contest Finished" popup (which includes a Draconic Templar armor piece). However, the adds that were there when we killed the heads are still there, and we dispatch them. No one can open the chest, and in three minutes Elminster turns back time and we get a "failed" message.
I can't even begin to explain this one.
Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO
Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF
Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP
The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
My Foundry playthrough channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Ruskaga/featured
The last head needs to die with at least 10 secs or so to spare or the animation doesn't finish and it bugs.
Nobody - in any of the few encounters i played - seemed to have ANY idea what to do. Let's get to the left everyone, hit some guy, press "F" and get some stuff (which magically replaces your healing potions in their slot). Then go and run for some dudes, kill them and last but not least let's protect some clerics.
Let's run to the middle, because for some reason there seems to be some devil-gathering-camp.
So everyone fights devils (who don't have any problems to beat down 10k GS players with one hit). Some of us pop healing potions. Some don't. They pop dragonsouls instead. At least we feel protected now, while we get beaten up by a bunch of almost unkillable devils.
And so the battle continues and those who are not on cooldown to pop dragonsouls, when fighting the head (of course, the left one first), actually pop the dragonsoul to get protection. Sometimes it's even the right dragonsoul per head.
Meanwhile i for myself completely fail to understand the situation. It's chaos, no communication, no coordination, nothing that would help me - as the confused player i am - to master this encounter with the random folks i have met with. Because there isn't any teaming, at least none i was able to notice. We all go for everything and the status bars on the right are not very helpful, since players do not interpret them equally. Those with more experience might be able to do that. A team of 25 able to SPEAK or chat with each others might be able to do that. But a random group of people who spend much of their time at the respawning-point because they are easily killed will not be able to do that, at least not in the short timeframe for this encounter.
No. This isn't a 10k GS encounter nor does it work as a teamevent of any sort if strangers meet. If so, then devs are either awesome players or never tested this.
Another thing that really bugs me is this reclaimation-thingy. Ok, even if you are not playing this day, you might as well donate some coins for helping other players in this "challenge". It's ok for me, since in return i get 1 (in words: ONE) linus favor for 1500 dragon hoardcoins.
My favourite hobby in this game is killing dragons. Such encounters give you about 5 coins (average). So you only need to kill around 4500 dragons and can then buy an offhand-artifact weapon of your choice, yay! I am aware, there's the dragonhoard-coffer-alternative. Nevermind, just as tedious.
So while it's possible to donate coins to help other players (and unlock better rewards in case they actually WIN the encounter) the daily price for this is simply over the top, if not on the best way to insanity.
Just my two cents.
The invisible 1-hitting aoe is probably Blue head attack which can hit miles away from its circle (and twice at that) because of how awesomely it has been programmed.
No, I don't think devs are awesome players. As for them testing stuff, it reminds me of dragon overload enchantments which could only be tested by devs before going live and they apparently never were till they turned up to be a major screwover of the gameplay.
Oh, i am so used to the unrewarding experience of killing dragons in this game, that in fact i never noticed it's that MANY dragon hoard coins you can get in the well of dragons
I have not yet figured out what the invisible AoE's source might be, but you are probably right, that it's one of the heads. Other annoyances there are those staggering effects on the players, while enemies happily hit 25000 HP out of them. The entire fight feels poorly made (regarding the enemies) yet utterly expensive for the players who waste time/energy/potions and injury kits on it, well knowing, that it's a lost encounter again.
Even if they do not add a queue, something needs to be done, here's why:
This is an MMO
MMO's are games we play with friends
Tiamat is a raid
Raids are played with friends and guildies
In Neverwinter, raids are played with PUGs that like bugging your instance
At least, give us the option to enter with our current party into the same instance, even if there isn't a queue. I mean for god's sake, this is ridiculous
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While 10kgs is probably too low considering that you can't premake parties. 16kgs is just as stupid but in the other direction.
|| Axios Guild Leader || Neverwinter Trade Forum Moderator || Infernal Paragons ||
Check out my foundry, titled "Akro's Gone Wacko", featuring our ex-CM Akromatik!: NW-DL8J7BY5T
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Thaumaturge's Time To Shine: A Complete Guide
While I also agree that we should be able to at least choose our party of 5 to queue, posting in this manner is akin to an ultimatum or threat and we cannot allow that, as specified in the Rules. So, please don't post with such intentions, conveyance, or action. That is not constructive. It's clear this is a hot topic, as it has stayed up here even after it was unstickied. So there is no need to bump it like that, which is also not allowed. Let the normal discussion keep it alive in itself -- for that is the best feedback, as such shows true community desire. Thanks!
Safe travels,
Archmage Zebular of Mystryl
PWE Community Moderator
[ RoC | ToS | Support ]
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
Honestly, I don't think anything will be done, no matter what. I think at this point Tiamat is done and unless something in it starts crashing the server I don't think anyone will ever look at it's code again.
I really was looking forward to doing Tiamat with four of my guildies in a group, which meant we may have been able to do it as was meant but sadly the devs reneged on their previous plans and so here we are still zerging in 2015.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
so
I wish that we could fet them as part of the loot
Since WoD is bugged for me (i don't get any quests there), i cannot earn the currencies anyway, which is why i will not even get close to a complete templar set. Doesn't matter much. The boons, that require an insane ammount of LF's aren't worth it either.
The encounter still feels lazy, but random PUGs seem to have more and more problems with disheartened AFK'ers who rather warm their feet at the campfire than actually PLAY this encounter. It's very obvious, that people only take on this lagfest in order to gain LF's. Investing anything (time,energy,potions,injury-kits) in a lost encounter leads to almost nowhere else than a few (really lame) RP one can gain quicker elsewhere and perhaps some random drop like a bag or so. And even if the team managed to win the encounter, i didn't get anything better than a few (really lame) RP and a boring armor that doesn't even sell at the AH. And btw, i never scored last in any of those encounters.
IMO (as a rather **** casual player) this encounter is as challenging and deadly for me as for many i have fought it with. It should be rewarded just to give it a try, and no, some (really lame) 500 RP are not motivating at all. They are discouraging and also lead to many people having a relaxed cup of coffee during the fight if they deem the fight a lost cause. They will get the (really lame) RP anyway.
I have seen a few battles, where it was really darn close to winning the encounter. But then some people died and couldn't be bothered with joining the battle again as they saw it lost. And lost battles never pay. Hence a bunch of people dragged the entire encounter down, making it fail and causing quite a lot of fun in the zone-chat. So not only is the encounter rather unrewarding, it also seems rather counterproductive to the community as a whole, because it doesn't make people play together. Quite the opposite actually, because e.g. high GS try to avoid instances with low GS at any cost.
We sometimes lost the encounter in an epic struggle, which was a fun experience. We couldn't do the damage needed, but didn't give it up, no matter what. I personally like this playstyle, but i perfectly understand people who don't want to bother with it, especially if there is no reward for playing this way.
But often we lost the encounter, because of the epic demotivation of people for whom it makes no sense to continue the fight. Many tasks/dungeons/skirmishes in this game encourage that behaviour, the laziness of people and the "we will not carry low GS people"-attitude.
This encounter tops them all at the moment.
I know, that this would hurt the ones doing their best, but what do you prefer, a chance to win, bc ppl have to keep fighting, or 500 RP and maybe a dragon egg.
I would prefer, if they would use the GG que system. Ppl would have better chances with forced groups, 5 player premades and 20 ppl, than this sloppy thing now.
i think groups would absolutely make sense, since this might "glue" people together. They are less likely to give up if they are in groups (at least i would assume that). The current timers often felt quite harsh to me already, i am not sure if it would work to put the people even more under pressure.
Would likely also lead to more "low dps = no dps" discussions, so tiamat would become a kind of elite-only-event i am afraid.