great points I agree with you but i do belive there must be somthing done
- if they cant change the min gs then how about setting the raid groups up by a average gs so for every 10 k that joined a 19k has to also join to off set it
14k average should be ok it would let everyone play
It's your videocard. The engine Neverwinter runs on prefers ATI. My main system is an i7 @4ghz +gtx780.. My media center machine runs the game smoother and it's only an i5 @3.4ghz and a ATI HD 6850... All details maxed (in the advanced section to 300%).
I found a few things that help when running on Nvidia cards. First. Turn off GPU physics or whatever it's called (can't check right now) and in the advanced section there is an option to smooth framerate. Use that. Also vertical sync seems to create more problems then it helps. Unless you have screen tearing I would shut it off. (Works great on my other ATI system)
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aimeesellersMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 342Arc User
edited December 2014
When ToD was first released... that is where the problems began. I agree there should have been something besides gear score and level to allow entry into it. The unlocking of Kessels... 3 IWD boons... something. But yes, we are way past that now. The hourly dragon zerg is just... absurd. At first me and my friends did our best to avoid it, fighting one or two dragons in the opposite order. But... since there is no gain for getting "great success" as opposed to normal in terms of something dropping, and we were actually limiting the number of coffers we could get during "dragon time"... we finally gave in, and run the zerg with the rest of the mob.
The devs tried to fix it... making the dragons tougher, and the time needed to complete shorter. It worked for about... 6 hours. The zerg adapted, and the mobs of players are just bigger than they were before. In my opinion, the player cap in the zone should have been reduced for each instance. Why? These are dragons... and not just any dragons. They are the Heralds of Tiamat... they should be the pinnacle of that a dragon is. Yet, they are each melted in under a minute on an hourly basis. This is not the fault of the players... they play with what is given to them. This is the fault of how it is set up.
How do you fix it? Well... one way would be to make them even tougher... and not have them spawn all at once. Have their respawn times work the same as the other ToD dragon encounters... based on when they were defeated last. It would add an almost random element to the entire zone. Its just a thought.
Tiamat... what a mess. My friend and I ran it on the first day, only to end up in separate instances. The dev's said they were going to change to a queue format, so we decided to wait until that happened before we ran it again. What a waste... since that statement was retracted, two days before the patch was released. So... We run it now and then. No where near on the level of those that flock there every hour regardless of anything else that is going on. There are time theories on getting in together, but these are simply a crapshoot... its hit or miss if you get in with your friends or guildmates.
There are some who seem to always end up in a winning instance... and there are those who rarely do. Which leads to the next issue...
Once in... everyone looks to see what the GS is of the other players. If there are too many "low GS" players in the instance, the higher GS ones (most... not all) either just leave and try to get into another before the countdown runs out... leave totally and come back an hour later, or... simply camp at the fire and do nothing. All of these simply lead to ensuring the fight is going to fail for those that do stay.
So... how do you fix that? Perhaps a bracketed system based on gear score? And is a 10K GS too low for the Tiamat fight? I would have to say it is. If there were an instance of nothing but 10K GS players... and they all stayed, and all fought as hard as they could... there is no chance they could beat it. Different levels of Tiamat would be needed... but... this would require a queue system... which the devs have stated they are not going to do. An error in my opinion. Yes... its broken.
Now... lets look at what Tiamat has done to the rest of the game. Artifact belts are dirt cheap at auction. Our guild has members GIVING them away because they dont want them. The market is flooded with them. Tier 1 & 2 gear is so cheap, and so available, there is no need for anyone to run dungeons to get it anymore. They can just buy it. But why buy it, when the cookie cutter Draconic gear is so easy to get? And almost as cheap? Slowly but surely... everyone is ending up with the same gear. Variation is going away. It if werent for transmuting, you would see hundreds of players running around in the same gear... looking the same... how boring.
But yet... try to refine that fancy artifact belt, or cloak, or weapon. It either required countless hours of mindless farming (what fun that is)... or some serious cash. Even the needed enchantments for your gear are absurdly expensive now.
Perhaps if Tiamat were a scheduled event that came around a few times a day... like Dungeon Delves, or GG, or Skirmishes?
I dont know... All I know is... it is seriously broken. There are a lot of good ideas out there to fix it. And some bad ones. To fix it, it may take a serious rework of how it is set up. It may be painful for some at first... and it is going to require some effort, and some concern on the part of the developers about what is going on.
This is a great game... but it is in trouble. These issues need to be fixed, and soon.
I don't think they will change from the raid component, but maybe adding an epic 5 player version on top of this could work.
At present there appear to be a number of contradictions with the Tiamat encounter, and also possibly with the WoD zone.
In a pure progression format, players would likely go ->Sharandar/Dread Ring ->Ice Wind Dale -> WoD
Now IWD does have requirements - 10k GS with a tier 3 boon from either Sharandar or DR
However, WoD is accessed purely via a 10k GS, meaning players can actually go there before IWD. Which of course some do, and included in the zone is Tiamat.
But let's focus on the zone and the impact it has had on other things. IWD is near empty as players leapfrog to WoD. Once popular dungeons are ignored.
Introducing higher requirements for the WoD - in my opinion should have been done at zone launch. XXkGS plus a certain level of progression in the IWD campaign. This would fit the vertical path zone progression.
At present WoD is a horizontal progression but with higher rewards - so people are bound to go there.
But I believe it is too late to change the zone entry level now - that opportunity has been missed. Having players half way through quests, or item farming, suddenly prevented from continuing those - cannot see it happening.
So the WoD zone is what it is - a lower entry than IWD, yet with higher level quests/quest mobs.
Now Tiamat - and what a can of worms.
Do players want a challenge in their gameplay? Well allowing premade groups of say 20k+ GS players wouldn't give you that. But maybe players now just want to walk in sure they can win - do the encounter - get reward - wait for next one - rinse & repeat.
There are many solutions to Tiamat being voiced on here. A higher GS requirement would seem to be a way forward, but then the semantics begin of what that level actually should be - and there will never be common agreement on this.
12k ? 13k ? I've read zone chat with some players quoting 14k as a minimum. But would that solve the whole issue? --- no.
20k players would still want to group with players around their GS, I've even seen group requests for 23K+ only people - definitely playing on the sure to win side here it seems.
Now, suddenly introducing a higher requirement would make some people happy, but it would also make others extremely unhappy - particularly those who where running the encounter ok, farming the favors - then stopped.
What do they do? Donate to the hoard just to see themselves barred from benefiting from the contribution reward? Can't really see that happening.
It is a shame that the Tiamat encounter couldn't scale to take into account the collective GS of the party (or use some other scaling factor)
- or could it in fact be done?
- and would the general playerbase accept that no matter what their GS was (10k-25k+), they would always be faced with a challenge?
I agree with everything that has been said on this post but there is one item I would like to address. This weekend past I was just going to do a character to hold some of my loot that is just causing clutter on my other inventory...well I found out once I leveled that new character to level 60 that getting T2 gear for it is so much cheaper and easy now days than when I first started back on beta days. My point is that after I geared up that TR I had a level 60 character with no boons 3 green companions and the free healer on my companion slots and a 14K GS ....Now my issue is seeing all those 10-12K at Tiamat....After seeing what I can do after leveling my character in one day, something that took me nearly a week back in beta, then grind for T1 armor so I could graduate to T2 about 2-3 weeks later...I have no words or excuses for those running around with crappy or unmatching gear in Tiamat. To me they are just looking for a free meal....yes I said it...freeloading and hoping that another player will do it for you is not acceptable on my book.....Now that are those that put some effort in it and to those people that are trying you are not my target here on this post. I s mainly those that cannot be with a winning group in Tiamat, the instance jumpers and fire camp parkers...and the GS on my characters range from 15K-22k...Not because I pay to instantly win, but because I used some form of tactic that is provided by the game to have AD readily available....I farm...I use professions and I most definitely I take to the fight I am not a bench warmer or point my finger and claiming in not fair when I am not doing anything for myself individual. I have seen many things in the game that upset me but nothing like what I have seen lately with this crying over things you do not have, because you figure the game is not fair by not giving it to you right away....Be inventive and go get it yourself. On the way there please before you go step into that door grab the bag labeled COMMONSENSE on it it helps getting those things you like in the game...This is not an attack or a rave but more of a get it done yourself and quit worrying about what people are doing and including you....Maybe they are not including you because you have identified yourself as a freeloader.BTW I have a full time job and I still have time to grind out 270 Linu's favors with different characters
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troutnaboutMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 21Arc User
edited December 2014
Hi just to say tiamat needs to be fixed, this instance is causing so much frustration and rage its not funny any more, we have had a few good guild members delete because of this... Basically groups of ppl with high GS call a time to enter, if they see the cleric fight as being slow in any way they leave or camp leaving the rest of the group fighting a losing battle. It would be fine if this happened now and again but now it happens all the time and players can farm tiamat all day and not get a win. Its not a hard thing to fix just group 10-15k. GS., 15-20k. GS. and 20k.+ together, make it so as you cant leave instance until after the group win or lose, and set a points level you must finish at to stop campers......really you devs need to come play it on a normal 15k.+ toon to see how bad it is
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aimeesellersMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 342Arc User
Basically groups of ppl with high GS call a time to enter, if they see the cleric fight as being slow in any way they leave or camp leaving the rest of the group fighting a losing battle.
That is EXACTLY what is happening... over and over again. Since ToD came out, I have limited myself to pretty much one character, the grind is just too much to do with all of them. My GF has a 20K gear score... I have been in 2 winning instances of Tiamat... 2. I never bail... I fight to the end... even when I know its over. The problem is, once the certainty of victory is in question, some players start to leave, or just camp... which then ensures defeat.
A 1 minute AFK timer in Tiamat would fix the camping... and the bots. Oh yes... bots have started farming this now too. By refusing to set up a queue system, the door was left wide open for them.
As far as leaving at the first sign of difficulty... some sort of penalty needs to be put in place to prevent people from just bailing.
(english is not my mother language, so sorry in advance)
This is my 2nd reply/post at all, since I've been playing this game. But simply, I need to say something about this. I will try to be concise as much as possible.
I didn't read all the post (I don't have time to waste on 19 pages), BUT I've read first three and every operators/developers words.
My opinion is that Tiamat can destroy future of this game. Why? I will explain.
I know that developers of this game have hard time to create interesting modul every a while, to make this game more fun. Competition is on high level in entertainment business, and I'm sure it is not easy job to make this game interesting more then others. But, on the other side, one or two big mistake can destroy hole story.
Lets see some facts and some defects why Tiamat is so devastating for this game:
1) one semi pro player can level up charachter from lvl 1 do lvl 60 in less then 24 hours (during experience weekend). Even with 50% speed mount.
2) With less then 150k (maybe even 100k) AD you can gear your new character with T2 gear and rank 6 enchants, and have 10k+ gs.
3) Of total of 10 items on your charachter (without Shirt and Pants), Tiamat drop 8! (only Rings can't be buy for Linu's Favor).
3a) I didn't forget Tiamat's Orb of Majesty, which also drop only in Tiamat.
4) All items that drop in Tiamat is the T3/end-game/highest stat/most valuable items.
5) Tiamat is only place where player can get Draconic Templar set. Can not be bought on AH.
6) Regular character need around 180 Linu's Favor to get all items, and boons in that campaign.
7) Single player have 0% of choosing other players with who he play in that dungeon.
So, in my guild is a player who told me that he play 10-20 hours per day ONLY in Tiamat, for last 7 days, and he have almost same gear score like me, who is playing last 7-8 months. His gear is better, because he have Draconic set (also drop in Tiamat), and have arti Cloak that I still don't have it, but he have enchants rank 5. His gearscore is 16k!! For only 7 days! Ok, he spend some time in leveling that character, but hey...in ONE MONTH he (or anybody else) can reach and beat all others that play this game MUCH MUCH longer.
That is not fair.
Society and history have shown us during the time, that in every situation when something unfair happend, some people turn to dark side. While everything have sense, people try to do it on the right way, because people love to get credit for own efforts. But in unfair times, they start to think: if "that" is unfair - I can be unfair also.
You wonder why that much 'elite' players camp in Tiamat? Because, they see that story in this game became totally unfair.
In all other dungeons there is gear score cap, and its go higher and higher, how dungeon more and more difficult is.
What will happend? Old players will stop playing. They will lose interest. When you play for 1-2 years, and then you see a 16k gs with enchants rank 4 or 5, and high-end gear from Tiamat, JUST because some developers make it allowed for 1 month players, you will start to ask yourself: "Who is stupid here? Me or developers?". Most of players think that is some big crew of masterminds behind this game, so they will choose to blame it on theyself. Therefore, they will uninstall game where they are stupid, and find another one.
I've spend around 30 min on this, and miss 1 turn of Tiamat, just to tell You (developers) to THINK about that last card you put on your house of cards.
And some of those AFKers are the aforementioned "elite". There are people that will win their rewards on the backs of others among all types of players. Asking that Tiamat be made only the playground of the elite is pointless. Unless they're willing to make this into a 5 team dungeon in which they can separate into epic and normal modes, I don't see any changes on that front.
But then again, this wasn't made to be your average "just throw more DPS at it" heroic encounter. I actually welcome the fact that some sort of actual strategy and planning is required.
If You read my post which is above this, You will see what I think about 'elite' campers. I think they've camp because Tiamat is not fair. I don't see campers in any other dungeon, ever.
Yes, You can say this dungeon is biggest and here is harder to control players. Yes, that is why this dungeon should be much better planned.
On the other hand, reason why I reply to Your post is next sentence: "Asking that Tiamat be made only the playground of the elite is pointless". Really? And You are COMMUNITY Manager? And You are here since...september 2012?
If You think that is pointless to 'elite' players should and can get best gear in game, I must ask You two things:
a) for which community You work for, loyal_old players or new players?
b) since I'm here from Jun 2014, can I work Your job? Can I be a Community Manager? It seems pretty much the same, by You.
I will not read or answer in future about it. I don't have time for that. I'm here to play game, and ENJOY in it. I didn't write this to insult anyone, I'm sure that You are great Community Manager. I just want to make people think about things, from some other point of view.
Thank You.
If You read my post which is above this, You will see what I think about 'elite' campers. I think they've camp because Tiamat is not fair. I don't see campers in any other dungeon, ever.
Yes, You can say this dungeon is biggest and here is harder to control players. Yes, that is why this dungeon should be much better planned.
On the other hand, reason why I reply to Your post is next sentence: "Asking that Tiamat be made only the playground of the elite is pointless". Really? And You are COMMUNITY Manager? And You are here since...september 2012?
If You think that is pointless to 'elite' players should and can get best gear in game, I must ask You two things:
a) for which community You work for, loyal_old players or new players?
b) since I'm here from Jun 2014, can I work Your job? Can I be a Community Manager? It seems pretty much the same, by You.
I will not read or answer in future about it. I don't have time for that. I'm here to play game, and ENJOY in it. I didn't write this to insult anyone, I'm sure that You are great Community Manager. I just want to make people think about things, from some other point of view.
Thank You.
Please do again read my title. I'm a Community MODERATOR. Not manager. I'm completely volunteer personnel--a player just like you. As such, I'm allowed my opinions, and I do believe that such a high GS requirement for Tiamat would turn it into the "playground of the elite".
ROLL TIDE ROLL
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1. Known bugs that have yet to be fixed. This morning at 9:00 AM EST Tiamat run had several instances bugged. Several are sharing people are doing this on purpose to annoy other players. Preventable bugs for sure, but when will Cryptic fix these know bugs?
2. PWE states Tiamat can be done with 25 people of 10K GS if they communicate, coordinate, and cooperate. Did PWE forget that unless all 25 speak, read, write, etc. the same language you cannot communicate? No communication means the other C's don't happen.
3. Did PWE ever test in terms of pure random 25 10K GS players of various builds (all close to zero armor pen) ever finishing Tiamat successfully? If yes, how many times out of 100 times did they win?
4. Tiamat is the only instance with very strict timers. When the clerics cast their spell and it states 2 minutes for the head phase, by the time you get to a head, it is typically 1.45 minutes. Unless you have the proper defense to get to any head, you cannot contribute DPS. If you are at the head, and just happen to be outside the soul gem area (presuming there's one operational), and don't have the defense, you die, and don't contribute DPS. If you don't have proper armor penetration stats, you don't contribute DPS.
Given that PWE purposely developed Tiamat as a DPS race (due to the short time involved during the head phases as well as the overall time limit), yes, it does come down to gearscore as one of several key measurements of success. This has nothing to do with elitism or stating < 15 GS = bad player, and greater = good player. It comes down that as one gets to 15K+ GS they tend to (not guaranteed) have proper defense, proper armor penetration, proper power, etc. to really contribute.
Those players who state they buff/debuff at < 15K GS... that's great, but that also means you need sufficient players capable of the DPS given the buffs/debuffs. Right now, Tiamat is like a dice roll with little skill involved. You either get into an instance with enough DPS or you don't. If you do, you zerg because there's not enough time (due to the programed PWE limit they imposed) to actually use strategy.
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dragoness10Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 780Arc User
edited December 2014
"Tiamat is the only instance with very strict timers. When the clerics cast their spell and it states 2 minutes for the head phase, by the time you get to a head, it is typically 1.45 minutes. Unless you have the proper defense to get to any head, you cannot contribute DPS. If you are at the head, and just happen to be outside the soul gem area (presuming there's one operational), and don't have the defense, you die, and don't contribute DPS. If you don't have proper armor penetration stats, you don't contribute DPS."
This part bugged me. Tiamat surprisingly is not all DPS.
Clerics are great contributors in healing everyone else, and rezzing folks. They are also good for blasting the devils away from the 3 clerics to protect.
Fighters are also good for rezzing others as they can take the hits, and not die.
Rangers can pull adds away from people attacking the 5 heads, or the adds attacking the 3 clerics.
Anyone, and I mean anyone can quick drop an altar near the clerics before the adds spawn in to help out with healing.
What I don't like here are people whom keep screaming "you F ____" at people whom don't have 18k+ GS, and quit the minute the first summoner isn't dead in 3 seconds. The people whom go into the instance, and then AFK just waiting for the failed instance reward by not even battling. You know whom you are camping at the campfire watching the rest of the people try to make an effort. That's what is making Tiamat so hard.
As for "PWE states Tiamat can be done with 25 people of 10K GS if they communicate, coordinate, and cooperate. Did PWE forget that unless all 25 speak, read, write, etc. the same language you cannot communicate? No communication means the other C's don't happen."
Most people by now can recognise the basics of directiosn to go "Cleric Sehanine" or "white head" etc. It's no differnt in me learning "Pomocy!" means "Help!". Again, instead of blaming others for a lack of communication take the time yourself to help them learn what "go red!" means instead of blaming them for not being a mind-reader.
Think I've typed enough here.
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This is one reason why I think pre-made groups are important: they allow individual players' reputation to be a factor. I got in an argument with one person about how spamming knockbacks at the wrong time was making it take longer for other classes to DPS and DoT adds. The response was basically on the order of, "I don't care what class <xx> does, I don't play one!" In other games when you had players like that, they eventually found it hard to get into raids because word spreads that their behavior will scuttle the entire raid. Not having control over who you join with only prolongs this sort of contrarian attitude rather than provides a corrective incentive.
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Again, the issue is Tiamat is a DPS race. I've yet to see PWE/Cryptic prove it can be done with 25 random 10K GS people... and for stat purposes do it at least 100 times to count the victories and losses.
Keep in mind, anyone can say anything; it doesn't make it truth. Many of us have done Tiamat enough to know anyone claiming 25 10K people can pull off a victory is lying or doesn't know what they are saying. If you want the community at large to feel differently, then someone needs to actually take some action (rather than use words) to prove it can be done over and over again so that it isn't just luck.
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troutnaboutMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 21Arc User
Hi just to say tiamat needs to be fixed, this instance is causing so much frustration and rage its not funny any more, we have had a few good guild members delete because of this... Basically groups of ppl with high GS call a time to enter, if they see the cleric fight as being slow in any way they leave or camp leaving the rest of the group fighting a losing battle. It would be fine if this happened now and again but now it happens all the time and players can farm tiamat all day and not get a win. Its not a hard thing to fix just group 10-15k. GS., 15-20k. GS. and 20k.+ together, make it so as you cant leave instance until after the group win or lose, and set a points level you must finish at to stop campers......really you devs need to come play it on a normal 15k.+ toon to see how bad it is
Hi again, just played tiamat again so bad, team worked well got everything done in time all heads down then...defend clerics phase again...Jesus wept, how do you expect ppl to stay with neverwinter with this level of frustration. please close tiamat and fix the bugs, the unfair loot drops for non dps classes and the unbalanced team gear score level...........
"Tiamat is the only instance with very strict timers. When the clerics cast their spell and it states 2 minutes for the head phase, by the time you get to a head, it is typically 1.45 minutes. Unless you have the proper defense to get to any head, you cannot contribute DPS. If you are at the head, and just happen to be outside the soul gem area (presuming there's one operational), and don't have the defense, you die, and don't contribute DPS. If you don't have proper armor penetration stats, you don't contribute DPS."
This part bugged me. Tiamat surprisingly is not all DPS.
Clerics are great contributors in healing everyone else, and rezzing folks. They are also good for blasting the devils away from the 3 clerics to protect.
Fighters are also good for rezzing others as they can take the hits, and not die.
Rangers can pull adds away from people attacking the 5 heads, or the adds attacking the 3 clerics.
Anyone, and I mean anyone can quick drop an altar near the clerics before the adds spawn in to help out with healing.
What I don't like here are people whom keep screaming "you F ____" at people whom don't have 18k+ GS, and quit the minute the first summoner isn't dead in 3 seconds. The people whom go into the instance, and then AFK just waiting for the failed instance reward by not even battling. You know whom you are camping at the campfire watching the rest of the people try to make an effort. That's what is making Tiamat so hard.
As for "PWE states Tiamat can be done with 25 people of 10K GS if they communicate, coordinate, and cooperate. Did PWE forget that unless all 25 speak, read, write, etc. the same language you cannot communicate? No communication means the other C's don't happen."
Most people by now can recognise the basics of directiosn to go "Cleric Sehanine" or "white head" etc. It's no differnt in me learning "Pomocy!" means "Help!". Again, instead of blaming others for a lack of communication take the time yourself to help them learn what "go red!" means instead of blaming them for not being a mind-reader.
Think I've typed enough here.
How many languages can you communicate which soul stone you have in? I can only do it in one, english, and I have now been yelled at enough in other languages that i can understand that this Tiamat setup will not work as deployed. However my largest gripe is that I can not run the instance with my guildmates and friends. That is not elitist, they are just my friends. I have guildmates with under 10k gearscore that we are helping to get up there, and I have guildmates with over 20+ gearscore that are doing the helping. We are guildmates because we like to help each other and play the game together, that is the fun part for us. Now because of the fear of elitism, we are no longer allowed to enjoy this instance, what a shame. Besides, the argument is illogical anyway. If you argue that 25 random people with 10k+ gearscore and varying ability can complete Tiamat, then what is the problem with the elitists having thier own instances? Or people like me who have 5-10 friends in teamspeak that want to be in the same instance, win or lose? The random folks who que up with no group will be filtered into instance with one or two premade groups, or an instance with 25 people from 15 countries all with under 11k gearscore, based on what has been said by the companies it should make no difference at all........right? That is what I thought.
It is very rare to get party invite on tiamat, but very common, that out of 15 max 3 player accepts invite, even if i spam it during the fight, when i am not in combat.
Ppl should understand how important the buffs are and then maybe there would be less fails on it.
But to see some numbers, ITF+BF together will make you deal like double dmg, or more than double, you would deal without party.
So there should be an auto party forming since it is hard (impossible) to make parties with pugs.
Yeah, I've mostly given up on trying to form parties, and also given up on using Battle Fury. The good news, however, is that they are looking to change Tiamat into something that you queue into, so when that happens you should always start with a full party.
Yeah, I've mostly given up on trying to form parties, and also given up on using Battle Fury. The good news, however, is that they are looking to change Tiamat into something that you queue into, so when that happens you should always start with a full party.
This is not true. They changed their mind. No changes are coming.
Tiamat is a pure DPS race against the clock, and PWE has the bar too low for GS. At 10K to 13K toons don't have proper armor penetration, defense, etc let alone the DPS (which typically requires 20% to 24% armor pen). PWE needs to raise the bar on Tiamat to be at minimum 15K GS in order to enter. Do that, fix the bugs, and you have doable Tiamat runs that do not waste people's time.
This is one reason why I think pre-made groups are important: they allow individual players' reputation to be a factor. I got in an argument with one person about how spamming knockbacks at the wrong time was making it take longer for other classes to DPS and DoT adds. The response was basically on the order of, "I don't care what class <xx> does, I don't play one!" In other games when you had players like that, they eventually found it hard to get into raids because word spreads that their behavior will scuttle the entire raid. Not having control over who you join with only prolongs this sort of contrarian attitude rather than provides a corrective incentive.
This can't be stated enough. This forced pugging is horrible.
hello i was just in a tiamat match, the first 2 minutes started after defending the clerics we got 2 of 5 heads down still able to defeat the other 3 next time but people started to leave just because we only got 2 heads down on the first part.
this ruined it for every one else as about half the match left just because we only got 2 heads down i think this should be against the rules, oh tiamat has no rules.
i mean i dont know why people have to leave even though we still; had a good chance of winning.
so my suggestion is cant we have a kick/ban system for people who leave half way through a match, like being banned from playing for rest of the day or for 24 hours, some of you might not like this but it will sort the problem out with people leaving.
and the same for people just sitting at the start of tiamat through the whole game, maybe have a active bar wear if you dont participate you get kicked out the game for not helping.
people might think this is not a good idea but they are the people who leave.
but i personaly think this will sort out both problems
sorry my writing skillz are not good
oh one last thing i heard tiamat can be done with just 25 10k gear score players can some one give me the video as i think its impossible
Agreed with the above. I also would like to add that at Tiamat there is often terrible lag (not conciding with the lag anywhere else on the server except occasionally at Well's dragons), especially at heads. Since killing Tiamat heads is mostly about 25 people rolling at the same spot, it's impossible to determin what is causing this.
Also, I think the way the white gem works should be changed and made more alike red or blue gems work - to spawning a color sphere negating the attack of the white head. As it is now, it does nothing cast before attack, it can only be cast after it and only if the gem holder either was outside the attack zone (and did not get frozen which makes it impossible to use gem) or got some immunity to counter the freeze and can use the gem.
As for the 10k GS threshold - epic LOL has 13k GS. And it's supposedly easier.
hello i was just in a tiamat match, the first 2 minutes started after defending the clerics we got 2 of 5 heads down still able to defeat the other 3 next time but people started to leave just because we only got 2 heads down on the first part.
this ruined it for every one else as about half the match left just because we only got 2 heads down i think this should be against the rules, oh tiamat has no rules.
i mean i dont know why people have to leave even though we still; had a good chance of winning.
so my suggestion is cant we have a kick/ban system for people who leave half way through a match, like being banned from playing for rest of the day or for 24 hours, some of you might not like this but it will sort the problem out with people leaving.
and the same for people just sitting at the start of tiamat through the whole game, maybe have a active bar wear if you dont participate you get kicked out the game for not helping.
people might think this is not a good idea but they are the people who leave.
but i personaly think this will sort out both problems
sorry my writing skillz are not good
oh one last thing i heard tiamat can be done with just 25 10k gear score players can some one give me the video as i think its impossible
As stated many times before there are many bugs that make the tiamat phase not advance. When one happens the whole party is stuck afk'ing. Until these bugs are completely fixed, your afk penalty would make things much much worse. My experience is that tiamat bugs out 15% of the time.
As far as the 25 10kgs thing. It's a theorycrafting exercise. If you had perfect class composition and the best players in the game could it be done. Since you can't make a premade group for it, there is no way to actually test it. All you will get is opinions. My opinion is that it is possible but even in those perfect situations the perfect group might still fail 9 out of 10 times. For me, that's in theory where the minimal entrance line should be drawn. 90% chance of failure even when played perfectly.
As stated many times before there are many bugs that make the tiamat phase not advance. When one happens the whole party is stuck afk'ing. Until these bugs are completely fixed, your afk penalty would make things much much worse. My experience is that tiamat bugs out 15% of the time.
As far as the 25 10kgs thing. It's a theorycrafting exercise. If you had perfect class composition and the best players in the game could it be done. Since you can't make a premade group for it, there is no way to actually test it. All you will get is opinions. My opinion is that it is possible but even in those perfect situations the perfect group might still fail 9 out of 10 times. For me, that's in theory where the minimal entrance line should be drawn. 90% chance of failure even when played perfectly.
well iv been told it is by a mod on here so maybe they will do an event of some sort to see if there right
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urlord283Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,084Arc User
edited January 2015
I believe that it can be done... but I have lately been in a match with only one head down.
there were no folks at the "fire pit"
not sure we had 25 folks but it was bad.
In the last week I have been in only one round which ended in victory
Most did have a large number of folks go ROADs or jus stand around the fire
Comments
- if they cant change the min gs then how about setting the raid groups up by a average gs so for every 10 k that joined a 19k has to also join to off set it
14k average should be ok it would let everyone play
It's your videocard. The engine Neverwinter runs on prefers ATI. My main system is an i7 @4ghz +gtx780.. My media center machine runs the game smoother and it's only an i5 @3.4ghz and a ATI HD 6850... All details maxed (in the advanced section to 300%).
I found a few things that help when running on Nvidia cards. First. Turn off GPU physics or whatever it's called (can't check right now) and in the advanced section there is an option to smooth framerate. Use that. Also vertical sync seems to create more problems then it helps. Unless you have screen tearing I would shut it off. (Works great on my other ATI system)
The devs tried to fix it... making the dragons tougher, and the time needed to complete shorter. It worked for about... 6 hours. The zerg adapted, and the mobs of players are just bigger than they were before. In my opinion, the player cap in the zone should have been reduced for each instance. Why? These are dragons... and not just any dragons. They are the Heralds of Tiamat... they should be the pinnacle of that a dragon is. Yet, they are each melted in under a minute on an hourly basis. This is not the fault of the players... they play with what is given to them. This is the fault of how it is set up.
How do you fix it? Well... one way would be to make them even tougher... and not have them spawn all at once. Have their respawn times work the same as the other ToD dragon encounters... based on when they were defeated last. It would add an almost random element to the entire zone. Its just a thought.
Tiamat... what a mess. My friend and I ran it on the first day, only to end up in separate instances. The dev's said they were going to change to a queue format, so we decided to wait until that happened before we ran it again. What a waste... since that statement was retracted, two days before the patch was released. So... We run it now and then. No where near on the level of those that flock there every hour regardless of anything else that is going on. There are time theories on getting in together, but these are simply a crapshoot... its hit or miss if you get in with your friends or guildmates.
There are some who seem to always end up in a winning instance... and there are those who rarely do. Which leads to the next issue...
Once in... everyone looks to see what the GS is of the other players. If there are too many "low GS" players in the instance, the higher GS ones (most... not all) either just leave and try to get into another before the countdown runs out... leave totally and come back an hour later, or... simply camp at the fire and do nothing. All of these simply lead to ensuring the fight is going to fail for those that do stay.
So... how do you fix that? Perhaps a bracketed system based on gear score? And is a 10K GS too low for the Tiamat fight? I would have to say it is. If there were an instance of nothing but 10K GS players... and they all stayed, and all fought as hard as they could... there is no chance they could beat it. Different levels of Tiamat would be needed... but... this would require a queue system... which the devs have stated they are not going to do. An error in my opinion. Yes... its broken.
Now... lets look at what Tiamat has done to the rest of the game. Artifact belts are dirt cheap at auction. Our guild has members GIVING them away because they dont want them. The market is flooded with them. Tier 1 & 2 gear is so cheap, and so available, there is no need for anyone to run dungeons to get it anymore. They can just buy it. But why buy it, when the cookie cutter Draconic gear is so easy to get? And almost as cheap? Slowly but surely... everyone is ending up with the same gear. Variation is going away. It if werent for transmuting, you would see hundreds of players running around in the same gear... looking the same... how boring.
But yet... try to refine that fancy artifact belt, or cloak, or weapon. It either required countless hours of mindless farming (what fun that is)... or some serious cash. Even the needed enchantments for your gear are absurdly expensive now.
Perhaps if Tiamat were a scheduled event that came around a few times a day... like Dungeon Delves, or GG, or Skirmishes?
I dont know... All I know is... it is seriously broken. There are a lot of good ideas out there to fix it. And some bad ones. To fix it, it may take a serious rework of how it is set up. It may be painful for some at first... and it is going to require some effort, and some concern on the part of the developers about what is going on.
This is a great game... but it is in trouble. These issues need to be fixed, and soon.
Pandora's Misfits Guild Leader
That is EXACTLY what is happening... over and over again. Since ToD came out, I have limited myself to pretty much one character, the grind is just too much to do with all of them. My GF has a 20K gear score... I have been in 2 winning instances of Tiamat... 2. I never bail... I fight to the end... even when I know its over. The problem is, once the certainty of victory is in question, some players start to leave, or just camp... which then ensures defeat.
A 1 minute AFK timer in Tiamat would fix the camping... and the bots. Oh yes... bots have started farming this now too. By refusing to set up a queue system, the door was left wide open for them.
As far as leaving at the first sign of difficulty... some sort of penalty needs to be put in place to prevent people from just bailing.
Pandora's Misfits Guild Leader
This is my 2nd reply/post at all, since I've been playing this game. But simply, I need to say something about this. I will try to be concise as much as possible.
I didn't read all the post (I don't have time to waste on 19 pages), BUT I've read first three and every operators/developers words.
My opinion is that Tiamat can destroy future of this game. Why? I will explain.
I know that developers of this game have hard time to create interesting modul every a while, to make this game more fun. Competition is on high level in entertainment business, and I'm sure it is not easy job to make this game interesting more then others. But, on the other side, one or two big mistake can destroy hole story.
Lets see some facts and some defects why Tiamat is so devastating for this game:
1) one semi pro player can level up charachter from lvl 1 do lvl 60 in less then 24 hours (during experience weekend). Even with 50% speed mount.
2) With less then 150k (maybe even 100k) AD you can gear your new character with T2 gear and rank 6 enchants, and have 10k+ gs.
3) Of total of 10 items on your charachter (without Shirt and Pants), Tiamat drop 8! (only Rings can't be buy for Linu's Favor).
3a) I didn't forget Tiamat's Orb of Majesty, which also drop only in Tiamat.
4) All items that drop in Tiamat is the T3/end-game/highest stat/most valuable items.
5) Tiamat is only place where player can get Draconic Templar set. Can not be bought on AH.
6) Regular character need around 180 Linu's Favor to get all items, and boons in that campaign.
7) Single player have 0% of choosing other players with who he play in that dungeon.
So, in my guild is a player who told me that he play 10-20 hours per day ONLY in Tiamat, for last 7 days, and he have almost same gear score like me, who is playing last 7-8 months. His gear is better, because he have Draconic set (also drop in Tiamat), and have arti Cloak that I still don't have it, but he have enchants rank 5. His gearscore is 16k!! For only 7 days! Ok, he spend some time in leveling that character, but hey...in ONE MONTH he (or anybody else) can reach and beat all others that play this game MUCH MUCH longer.
That is not fair.
Society and history have shown us during the time, that in every situation when something unfair happend, some people turn to dark side. While everything have sense, people try to do it on the right way, because people love to get credit for own efforts. But in unfair times, they start to think: if "that" is unfair - I can be unfair also.
You wonder why that much 'elite' players camp in Tiamat? Because, they see that story in this game became totally unfair.
In all other dungeons there is gear score cap, and its go higher and higher, how dungeon more and more difficult is.
What will happend? Old players will stop playing. They will lose interest. When you play for 1-2 years, and then you see a 16k gs with enchants rank 4 or 5, and high-end gear from Tiamat, JUST because some developers make it allowed for 1 month players, you will start to ask yourself: "Who is stupid here? Me or developers?". Most of players think that is some big crew of masterminds behind this game, so they will choose to blame it on theyself. Therefore, they will uninstall game where they are stupid, and find another one.
I've spend around 30 min on this, and miss 1 turn of Tiamat, just to tell You (developers) to THINK about that last card you put on your house of cards.
Thank You.
If You read my post which is above this, You will see what I think about 'elite' campers. I think they've camp because Tiamat is not fair. I don't see campers in any other dungeon, ever.
Yes, You can say this dungeon is biggest and here is harder to control players. Yes, that is why this dungeon should be much better planned.
On the other hand, reason why I reply to Your post is next sentence: "Asking that Tiamat be made only the playground of the elite is pointless". Really? And You are COMMUNITY Manager? And You are here since...september 2012?
If You think that is pointless to 'elite' players should and can get best gear in game, I must ask You two things:
a) for which community You work for, loyal_old players or new players?
b) since I'm here from Jun 2014, can I work Your job? Can I be a Community Manager? It seems pretty much the same, by You.
I will not read or answer in future about it. I don't have time for that. I'm here to play game, and ENJOY in it. I didn't write this to insult anyone, I'm sure that You are great Community Manager. I just want to make people think about things, from some other point of view.
Thank You.
Please do again read my title. I'm a Community MODERATOR. Not manager. I'm completely volunteer personnel--a player just like you. As such, I'm allowed my opinions, and I do believe that such a high GS requirement for Tiamat would turn it into the "playground of the elite".
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1. Known bugs that have yet to be fixed. This morning at 9:00 AM EST Tiamat run had several instances bugged. Several are sharing people are doing this on purpose to annoy other players. Preventable bugs for sure, but when will Cryptic fix these know bugs?
2. PWE states Tiamat can be done with 25 people of 10K GS if they communicate, coordinate, and cooperate. Did PWE forget that unless all 25 speak, read, write, etc. the same language you cannot communicate? No communication means the other C's don't happen.
3. Did PWE ever test in terms of pure random 25 10K GS players of various builds (all close to zero armor pen) ever finishing Tiamat successfully? If yes, how many times out of 100 times did they win?
4. Tiamat is the only instance with very strict timers. When the clerics cast their spell and it states 2 minutes for the head phase, by the time you get to a head, it is typically 1.45 minutes. Unless you have the proper defense to get to any head, you cannot contribute DPS. If you are at the head, and just happen to be outside the soul gem area (presuming there's one operational), and don't have the defense, you die, and don't contribute DPS. If you don't have proper armor penetration stats, you don't contribute DPS.
Given that PWE purposely developed Tiamat as a DPS race (due to the short time involved during the head phases as well as the overall time limit), yes, it does come down to gearscore as one of several key measurements of success. This has nothing to do with elitism or stating < 15 GS = bad player, and greater = good player. It comes down that as one gets to 15K+ GS they tend to (not guaranteed) have proper defense, proper armor penetration, proper power, etc. to really contribute.
Those players who state they buff/debuff at < 15K GS... that's great, but that also means you need sufficient players capable of the DPS given the buffs/debuffs. Right now, Tiamat is like a dice roll with little skill involved. You either get into an instance with enough DPS or you don't. If you do, you zerg because there's not enough time (due to the programed PWE limit they imposed) to actually use strategy.
This part bugged me. Tiamat surprisingly is not all DPS.
Clerics are great contributors in healing everyone else, and rezzing folks. They are also good for blasting the devils away from the 3 clerics to protect.
Fighters are also good for rezzing others as they can take the hits, and not die.
Rangers can pull adds away from people attacking the 5 heads, or the adds attacking the 3 clerics.
Anyone, and I mean anyone can quick drop an altar near the clerics before the adds spawn in to help out with healing.
What I don't like here are people whom keep screaming "you F ____" at people whom don't have 18k+ GS, and quit the minute the first summoner isn't dead in 3 seconds. The people whom go into the instance, and then AFK just waiting for the failed instance reward by not even battling. You know whom you are camping at the campfire watching the rest of the people try to make an effort. That's what is making Tiamat so hard.
As for "PWE states Tiamat can be done with 25 people of 10K GS if they communicate, coordinate, and cooperate. Did PWE forget that unless all 25 speak, read, write, etc. the same language you cannot communicate? No communication means the other C's don't happen."
Most people by now can recognise the basics of directiosn to go "Cleric Sehanine" or "white head" etc. It's no differnt in me learning "Pomocy!" means "Help!". Again, instead of blaming others for a lack of communication take the time yourself to help them learn what "go red!" means instead of blaming them for not being a mind-reader.
Think I've typed enough here.
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"Don't call them foolish mortals. One, they don't learn from it. Two, It just ticks them off." - An Ancient Red Dragon
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Hi again, just played tiamat again so bad, team worked well got everything done in time all heads down then...defend clerics phase again...Jesus wept, how do you expect ppl to stay with neverwinter with this level of frustration. please close tiamat and fix the bugs, the unfair loot drops for non dps classes and the unbalanced team gear score level...........
How many languages can you communicate which soul stone you have in? I can only do it in one, english, and I have now been yelled at enough in other languages that i can understand that this Tiamat setup will not work as deployed. However my largest gripe is that I can not run the instance with my guildmates and friends. That is not elitist, they are just my friends. I have guildmates with under 10k gearscore that we are helping to get up there, and I have guildmates with over 20+ gearscore that are doing the helping. We are guildmates because we like to help each other and play the game together, that is the fun part for us. Now because of the fear of elitism, we are no longer allowed to enjoy this instance, what a shame. Besides, the argument is illogical anyway. If you argue that 25 random people with 10k+ gearscore and varying ability can complete Tiamat, then what is the problem with the elitists having thier own instances? Or people like me who have 5-10 friends in teamspeak that want to be in the same instance, win or lose? The random folks who que up with no group will be filtered into instance with one or two premade groups, or an instance with 25 people from 15 countries all with under 11k gearscore, based on what has been said by the companies it should make no difference at all........right? That is what I thought.
Ppl should understand how important the buffs are and then maybe there would be less fails on it.
But to see some numbers, ITF+BF together will make you deal like double dmg, or more than double, you would deal without party.
So there should be an auto party forming since it is hard (impossible) to make parties with pugs.
The 25-ppl raid should be considered as a party, buff-wise. That's the change the devs have to implement. Besides fixing all the bugs of course.
This can't be stated enough. This forced pugging is horrible.
:sigh:
Well, party on dude.
this ruined it for every one else as about half the match left just because we only got 2 heads down i think this should be against the rules, oh tiamat has no rules.
i mean i dont know why people have to leave even though we still; had a good chance of winning.
so my suggestion is cant we have a kick/ban system for people who leave half way through a match, like being banned from playing for rest of the day or for 24 hours, some of you might not like this but it will sort the problem out with people leaving.
and the same for people just sitting at the start of tiamat through the whole game, maybe have a active bar wear if you dont participate you get kicked out the game for not helping.
people might think this is not a good idea but they are the people who leave.
but i personaly think this will sort out both problems
sorry my writing skillz are not good
oh one last thing i heard tiamat can be done with just 25 10k gear score players can some one give me the video as i think its impossible
Also, I think the way the white gem works should be changed and made more alike red or blue gems work - to spawning a color sphere negating the attack of the white head. As it is now, it does nothing cast before attack, it can only be cast after it and only if the gem holder either was outside the attack zone (and did not get frozen which makes it impossible to use gem) or got some immunity to counter the freeze and can use the gem.
As for the 10k GS threshold - epic LOL has 13k GS. And it's supposedly easier.
As stated many times before there are many bugs that make the tiamat phase not advance. When one happens the whole party is stuck afk'ing. Until these bugs are completely fixed, your afk penalty would make things much much worse. My experience is that tiamat bugs out 15% of the time.
As far as the 25 10kgs thing. It's a theorycrafting exercise. If you had perfect class composition and the best players in the game could it be done. Since you can't make a premade group for it, there is no way to actually test it. All you will get is opinions. My opinion is that it is possible but even in those perfect situations the perfect group might still fail 9 out of 10 times. For me, that's in theory where the minimal entrance line should be drawn. 90% chance of failure even when played perfectly.
well iv been told it is by a mod on here so maybe they will do an event of some sort to see if there right
there were no folks at the "fire pit"
not sure we had 25 folks but it was bad.
In the last week I have been in only one round which ended in victory
Most did have a large number of folks go ROADs or jus stand around the fire
Very sad
UrLord