If that is the only problem you have with all of the alterations, then I cant be happier. I am not sure how to change the white and black dragon to fit this new situation. But we are here with a lot of people and someone might have a good solution. Something that just comes to mind on the white dragon, if the gem can be used during the freeze and give an anti freeze, that problem is solved.
The black dragon still can be dodged, so if someone has a smart way to go around that?
Even if you dodge you still end up with the defense debuff of the black dragon breath. I don't remember it doing any dmg, just a debuff and push, which hits me even if I dodged it. The debuff is signifigant though, after having it the demons have a tendency to 1shot me if they hit me. Now that I know that though they don't hit me anymore.
EDIT: If you wanted to make the gems personal and required, just making it so that having them in the hotbar would give a constant buff making you immune to the matching breath attack.
I don't really like your suggestion though. I like being able to help others by using the gem to protect them. The current arrangement encourages group play and lets you help out if one of the groups is struggling to bring their head down. Without the gems doing area buffs anyone trying to help the middle 3 heads would be kills as soon as the breath went off.
Joined a run late earlier and found that none of them had taken a red gem, they went to fight the red head and when the fire breath went off I was surronded by 10+ people calling for help. Was a bit amusing. I had dodge all of the damage from the breath and had not gone down.
The sad part of all this is that this Raid could have been special, but you know that bean counters told the suits at PWE that in order to make the game pop surge again, they needed to be fully inclusive with this new end game content. The problem with bean counters and suits telling the devs what is required is that they have no insight as to how to make this actually work, so the devs are left to sort it themselves and obviously were a bit overwhelmed by it.
The solution is actually quite simple with the mechanics in place already to support it. The GG PVP Queue can be modified to have a 25 player limit. It can then be tier split, with 10-14K GS players moved into a version of the fight appropriate to their gearing level and the 15KGS and up players fighting the current version of the fight. Reward levels would be appropriate to gearing the class you are in with T1 rewards and minor RP/enchant drops going to the lower level players, and T2 gear and higher level RP items going to the higher level group.
The bugs of course are another experience crushing problem that needs to be addressed. One suggestion I have there for the cowardly dragon heads is to make the area around the dragon heads a fast death zone similar to the poison dragon AOE strike until the heads are all the way up to prevent overly excited players from attacking them early and bugging them. I've got more but as I'm not paid by cryptic, I'll have to let them sort some of their own issues.
My apologies if my message wasnt 100% clear. I do understand how the mechanics of the gems work. I am saying that because it is a team defensive shield, to withstand the might of Tiamat's big attack, but it makes it rather easy. You need 3 gems for 2 dragons, that are 6 people, out of 25. While you use 1 Gem, you can shield all 25 people in the instance. To me, that feels wrong.
.
So let me get this straight. You want gems that have a long cooldown, to only protect 1 person. Basically you would get 20 seconds to attack the green head and then everyone would have to leave. i.e. not even the highest dps groups could succeed.
Here are some reasons or/and bugs which can appear in there:
1. Some instances are bugged. (nr 1 for sure)
2. Sometimes you can`t kill red head of Tiamat because it is under the platform
3. Sometimes even when you kill Tiamat you don`t get any reward
4. Sometimes when you finish protecting clerics, they`d bug and you can`t get into heads because of killing dot which should be removed when clerics finish their stuff
5. Tiamat should be instanced zone like Moradin where you just can`t change instance.
6. There`s no group queue for Tiamat. It means that you just go with 24 RANDOM PEOPLE (different nationalities, some people don`t understand English so how is it possible to comunicate with them?)
7. 10.000 GS? That`s ridiculous. Imagine group with 25 10k GS people. And? Is it still possible to finish it? THINK! IS IT? Stupid The Shores of Tuern has 13k GS. And Tiamat? LET`S MAKE IT EASIER AND GIVE 10K GS. And second thing, most of people know how to increase GS without changing sets. Just buy some Dragon Enchants 6/7 put it in all set parts and you`ll easly have even 13k GS. Sounds weird? Nope that`s how it works.
8. There`s no separate chat for every instance. So how people can communicate? In SAY chat? Some people can`t see everything because the are too far... SO 24 RANDOMS WITH NO COMMUNICATION? OF COURSE YOU CAN MANAGE THAT! Cryptic said.
9. Too much dragon coins needed to fill the all 4 buffs in Tiamat. Look at the population of servers and look how many dragon coins people can gather in about an hour!
So let me get this straight. You want gems that have a long cooldown, to only protect 1 person. Basically you would get 20 seconds to attack the green head and then everyone would have to leave. i.e. not even the highest dps groups could succeed.
No I want to have the gems a cooldown, equal to the cooldown from Tiamats big attack. Meaning you would actually have group play, instead of everyone all over the place. Which means you would have to split up in 5 groups each on their own dragon head. Then, as you have mentioned, when a group needs help you've got 20 seconds, before you gotta run for your life.
When you make Tiamat a queued event:
Please make one queue with gs requirement 16k+, and one with 10k+.
Currently Tiamat is cake as long as you get a properly geared team. If you get too many low gs people on your team it is a fail.
We do want to be able to control who we play with, it should not be the right of low gear score people to attempt to be carried through Tiamat and cause a fail.
Separate queues will solve this.. the low gs people can attempt Tiamat and fail as much as they want, while those with better gear has a fair chance of winning.
Or else make it so we can control the raid setup in advance, that will effectively shut the low gs people out from Tiamat.
There is much unhappiness in zone chat about low gs people attempting to leech and causing fails.
Separate queues based on GS will not solve another problem: Dividing the groups that want to Zerg from people that do not want to Zerg. I find that more Tiamats fail because of this "conflict" than from people with a low GS. Coordination and teamwork in Tiamat (the method is less important) are the most important thing.
When you make Tiamat a queued event:
Please make one queue with gs requirement 16k+, and one with 10k+.
Currently Tiamat is cake as long as you get a properly geared team. If you get too many low gs people on your team it is a fail.
We do want to be able to control who we play with, it should not be the right of low gear score people to attempt to be carried through Tiamat and cause a fail.
Separate queues will solve this.. the low gs people can attempt Tiamat and fail as much as they want, while those with better gear has a fair chance of winning.
Or else make it so we can control the raid setup in advance, that will effectively shut the low gs people out from Tiamat.
There is much unhappiness in zone chat about low gs people attempting to leech and causing fails.
mmm seems you want special treatment just because you have a higher gs what about my alts they have just as much right to killing tiamat EVERY time as my main yes they have ~13k gs but that doesnt exclude them from haveing the ability to contribute to the fight.
if you want an epic tiamat encounter then ask for one with NEW GS and NEW loot
while your at it ask for double cool downs on gems and 3x hp on tiamat and a breath from red that actually will 1 shot like green and blue
while you at it request for the adds at the clerics to have 3 spawn points on dreamer and moondancer and 9 on linu just to make it interesting since your an elitist and can do the instance by your self
mmm seems you want special treatment just because you have a higher gs what about my alts they have just as much right to killing tiamat EVERY time as my main yes they have ~13k gs but that doesnt exclude them from haveing the ability to contribute to the fight.
I am not suggesting to take away your right to kill Tiamat. I just don't want to carry your low-gs alts through it and most likely fail because of them.
So you queue up for the low-gs queue, I queue up for the high-gs queue. We both get a go at Tiamat.
You will probably fail without high-gs people carrying you, but you really have no business messing with Tiamat below 16k gs anyways.
Only issue on my end, is the red aoe damage area on ground from blue dragon breath weapon doesn't appear and wipes groups. Other than that, awesome job on raid Cryptic
You will probably fail without high-gs people carrying you, but you really have no business messing with Tiamat below 16k gs anyways.
This reminds me of the time when me at 14k and 4 other 14k people did enough damage to almost kill their head in the first round. Can you imagine how much we would have failed if we were all under 16k, oh wait a minute. It's as if gear score is almost completely meaningless.
no need to carry me or my alts they are set to do thier jobs just fine. my 2 main alts both have ~5 linu. i understand that you need to be carried even with a hi GS because you are moar worried about GS then good stat placement / set bonus / team play / skill
Separate queues based on GS will not solve another problem: Dividing the groups that want to Zerg from people that do not want to Zerg. I find that more Tiamats fail because of this "conflict" than from people with a low GS. Coordination and teamwork in Tiamat (the method is less important) are the most important thing.
Quoted for truth. As long as there are two separate strategies that seem popular and no way to coordinate beyond your own group (presuming the stated changes are implemented within the target timeframe) then "elite" queues won't make a difference or guarantee victory.
It would merely change the dynamic from getting 24 other people to listen to you, to getting only four others.
ROLL TIDE ROLL
Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com
when I was grinding my offhand I was okay with the gear score requirements because I was seeing enough attempts in a night to think in terms of average result. However more recently I started pairing with a real life friend that only has enough time for 1 or 2 tiamat's a night, and I noticed my whole perception of the randomness of raids changed. First I stopped going at the "uber time" because getting two or three people into the same raid from the same group requires a lot of attempts at the door, and second at that rate you can go days without a win due to low dps raids.
Because of these two effects, I am more sympathetic about people that are mad about gear score. You somewhat mitigate it when you can find a time where like minded people that know the encounter go in, and you can mitigate it by just burning them all night for 12 hours putting your faith in your luck turning, but without these two things, man that raid makes you h8 10k GS.
We need a no-zerg que. Zerg does not need a party, or talent, or any sort of plan......
Human nature. When dealing with people you don't know and your success is dependent on the actions of those other people, they tend to go with the plan that requires the least amount of communication or strategy, to reduce the chance of failure.
Unfortunately, the problem arises when those people have a completely different strategy, and having a separate queue would be pointless because there's simply no way to enforce a given strategy without devising two completely separate mechanics for the fight and that would create its own set of problems.
ROLL TIDE ROLL
Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com
The GS requirement should be 13k, 12k absolute minimum.
I can literally outdps 10k people by 5x or 6x the damage they deal, and im not that amazing, just sitting at 15.3k.
You shouldnt be able to farm the hardest boss in game wearing T1 gear and rank 4 enchants.
Another major, major flaw (and its really a killer) is the fact that we can get T1/T2 gear from Tiamat. What about the older dungeons, so i guess they are totally useless now.
The contribute quest % also needs fixing, the max ive seen since day1 was 14%.
The clerics bug a lot. The blue head AoE is invisible.
By the way, to other control wizard players out there. If you use Lantern and Ray of Enfeeblement, the respective head just gets melted in seconds.
Human nature. When dealing with people you don't know and your success is dependent on the actions of those other people, they tend to go with the plan that requires the least amount of communication or strategy, to reduce the chance of failure.
Unfortunately, the problem arises when those people have a completely different strategy, and having a separate queue would be pointless because there's simply no way to enforce a given strategy without devising two completely separate mechanics for the fight and that would create its own set of problems.
Darwin. Sure some troll will try to zerg a Tactics que. From my experience with Tactics groups they can probably take Tiamat with 4 parties. So if you don't feed the trolls it works out in the end. If enough people troll it won't result in an instance win but a mess. I doubt there are that many people willing to lose their Linu on trolling....
The tactics problem can be solved more or less the way it was done initially with the current solution: The 5x5 people zone in during the first 2-3 minutes, then the Zerg people follow the last 2 minutes. This problem people will find solutions to, as it is in their interest to solve it.
The gs problem is unsolvable without Cryptic intervention, as it is very much in the interest of the low-gs people to leech kills off the high-gs people. As long as there is a chance to exploit a situation, it will be exploited.
Looking forward.. assuming Tiamat is just the first of several raids that will face similar challenges:
We should be able to form 5x5 supergroups outside the raidzone, with a raidleader that can rearrange the groups and inspect/kick/invite people. This takes some code work, but if Cryptic intends to move forwards with raids(please please do!!) I think this solution is a must. No more discussions about tactics and gs.
Such solutions exist in other mmorpgs, they work well.
We need a no-zerg que. Zerg does not need a party, or talent, or any sort of plan......
Hate to break it to you, but attacking your own head isn't talent. It comes down to debuffs, a dps race and using a soul gem instead of dodging. I'd say CN back in the day when we didn't have inflated gs required more talent.
We need a no-zerg que. Zerg does not need a party, or talent, or any sort of plan......
Zerg or tactics has nothing to do with talent or anything else you mentioned other than maybe party. It is however a plan, a plan that simplifies the herding of cats which is always difficult with a completely random pug of people. The nerd rage from the tactics people seems to disregard this.
Hate to break it to you, but attacking your own head isn't talent. It comes down to debuffs, a dps race and using a soul gem instead of dodging. I'd say CN back in the day when we didn't have inflated gs required more talent.
Maybe at one point CN was like that. But in the end it became the very model of the zerg mentality. There are plently of talentless folks that have the DPS to zerg CN, and they do,and the same folks likely fail on coffers in VT. I'd say zerg vs. Tactic is a bit like CN vs. VT. In CN you mass attack and DPS race to the win. In VT you have to have 5 people coordinate, communicate, and occasionally cover for other's failures. In Zerg/ tactics the same general model applies except it is 5 parties rather than 5 players. But wure you are welcome to yur opinion. Zerg all you want. I just want a way to get a run that won't be disrupted by 5 imbeciles shouting ZEEEERRGGG BLACK!!!!! in /say.
Maybe at one point CN was like that. But in the end it became the very model of the zerg mentality. There are plently of talentless folks that have the DPS to zerg CN, and they do,and the same folks likely fail on coffers in VT. I'd say zerg vs. Tactic is a bit like CN vs. VT. In CN you mass attack and DPS race to the win. In VT you have to have 5 people coordinate, communicate, and occasionally cover for other's failures. In Zerg/ tactics the same general model applies except it is 5 parties rather than 5 players. But wure you are welcome to yur opinion. Zerg all you want. I just want a way to get a run that won't be disrupted by 5 imbeciles shouting ZEEEERRGGG BLACK!!!!! in /say.
5 player team per head is not talent, but luck to get high DPS group.
VT is easy now with inflated GS, but if you strip your gear off and completed with 9K group then maybe we call it good group.
Tiamat fight itself is frustrating, bugged/glitched... I got my off-hand allready so using group "Brute force" as tactic is working, but still even that way only 75% succes, because few SOLOist want play per head alone or players dont see colors or bugged/lagged/glitched.
If we can make Premades for Tiamat it then brings another problem with Elitist and then most 10K are out... but try get yourself in VT with 10K GS... maybe Tiamat needs second version as Legendary and same rewards drops so Elitist get place where shine.
5 player team per head is not talent, but luck to get high DPS group.
VT is easy now with inflated GS, but if you strip your gear off and completed with 9K group then maybe we call it good group.
Tiamat fight itself is frustrating, bugged/glitched... I got my off-hand allready so using group "Brute force" as tactic is working, but still even that way only 75% succes, because few SOLOist want play per head alone or players dont see colors or bugged/lagged/glitched.
If we can make Premades for Tiamat it then brings another problem with Elitist and then most 10K are out... but try get yourself in VT with 10K GS... maybe Tiamat needs second version as Legendary and same rewards drops so Elitist get place where shine.
Umm yeah, got my OH, and 2 peice DT, and another boon. 80% of that was with Tactics groups. And not always high GS groups really just making sure people don't waste gems = success in Tactics. I've won with 12k's in my party who simply worked together and used coms. An organized Tactic party can win without high GS because they spend 100% of the uptime attacking. Not moving about, not drawing random mobs onto the platform. The reason I feel it takes more talent is experience. I have seen poorly coordinated high GS groups fail Tactics. I have seen well-coordinated lower GS groups succeed. If anything Zerg is luck of the draw. One way or another you can have an all 20k team and if they fail in coordination they will fail VT. Regardless. An all DPs high GS team can roll CN without ever even bothering to use party chat. I know. I've done it. But, again, if you want to zerg then zerg. I just want to group with people who want Tactics instead. Will it kill you if they impliment a way for people who don't want to play the way you do to play with others of the same opinion? How does that hurt you?
Umm yeah, got my OH, and 2 peice DT, and another boon. 80% of that was with Tactics groups. And not always high GS groups really just making sure people don't waste gems = success in Tactics. I've won with 12k's in my party who simply worked together and used coms. An organized Tactic party can win without high GS because they spend 100% of the uptime attacking. Not moving about, not drawing random mobs onto the platform. The reason I feel it takes more talent is experience. I have seen poorly coordinated high GS groups fail Tactics. I have seen well-coordinated lower GS groups succeed. If anything Zerg is luck of the draw. One way or another you can have an all 20k team and if they fail in coordination they will fail VT. Regardless. An all DPs high GS team can roll CN without ever even bothering to use party chat. I know. I've done it. But, again, if you want to zerg then zerg. I just want to group with people who want Tactics instead. Will it kill you if they impliment a way for people who don't want to play the way you do to play with others of the same opinion? How does that hurt you?
It's not that it will hurt anyone, it's that unless they implement full 25 man raid grouping and allow you to queue at that point it will never happen, and some of the comments I've read make it seem like that will never happen. So what we have is that people that like color parties spend their time raging and insulting everyone else for doing a zerg party. I have no in game problem doing a color tactics run if the whole group agreed but I won't try to join one at the moment because the insults that constantly fly from the pro-tactics partisans make me not want to have anything to do with them in game.
Here are some reasons or/and bugs which can appear in there:
1. Some instances are bugged. (nr 1 for sure)
2. Sometimes you can`t kill red head of Tiamat because it is under the platform
3. Sometimes even when you kill Tiamat you don`t get any reward
4. Sometimes when you finish protecting clerics, they`d bug and you can`t get into heads because of killing dot which should be removed when clerics finish their stuff
5. Tiamat should be instanced zone like Moradin where you just can`t change instance.
6. There`s no group queue for Tiamat. It means that you just go with 24 RANDOM PEOPLE (different nationalities, some people don`t understand English so how is it possible to comunicate with them?)
7. 10.000 GS? That`s ridiculous. Imagine group with 25 10k GS people. And? Is it still possible to finish it? THINK! IS IT? Stupid The Shores of Tuern has 13k GS. And Tiamat? LET`S MAKE IT EASIER AND GIVE 10K GS. And second thing, most of people know how to increase GS without changing sets. Just buy some Dragon Enchants 6/7 put it in all set parts and you`ll easly have even 13k GS. Sounds weird? Nope that`s how it works.
8. There`s no separate chat for every instance. So how people can communicate? In SAY chat? Some people can`t see everything because the are too far... SO 24 RANDOMS WITH NO COMMUNICATION? OF COURSE YOU CAN MANAGE THAT! Cryptic said.
9. Too much dragon coins needed to fill the all 4 buffs in Tiamat. Look at the population of servers and look how many dragon coins people can gather in about an hour!
1. Check - certain instance numbers just don't give rewards.
2. Check - happened to me on the Black head... might be because it got hit before it actually managed to fully rise.
3. Check - and annoying as hell: currently, you win the game after Tiamat's dying ANIMATION completes; if you set the win to count the instant all heads reach 0 HP, instead of when the last head decides to reach the lava, this would be fixed.
4. Check - no idea what cause this, though.
5. +1
6. Check - however, I can't see a viable solution to this.
7. I still say it can be won with low GS folks, if they coordinate and don't forget how friendly debuffs are... and the gems.
EDIT 1: As for the second part, in order to NOT kill prices on T1/2 dungeon drops, how about making the loot in Tiamat BoP?
8. Say works alright for me...
9. I guess there might be some truth here.
EDIT 2: the 100% you've seen when it was launched was everyone dumping everything they had for the Favors. Since then, I personally haven't seen it fill up to Tier 2... it might have happened, but I haven't seen it.
Human nature. When dealing with people you don't know and your success is dependent on the actions of those other people, they tend to go with the plan that requires the least amount of communication or strategy, to reduce the chance of failure.
Unfortunately, the problem arises when those people have a completely different strategy, and having a separate queue would be pointless because there's simply no way to enforce a given strategy without devising two completely separate mechanics for the fight and that would create its own set of problems.
I'm thinking the Cryptic had no intention of having Tiamat taken down one head at a time. That said, leave the map as it is for now, but work on modifying it in a later patch?
I see it this way:
- 25 people get in the "lobby" and find 5 waiting circles, which will each need at least 4 people on them in order for everyone to be teleported - why 4? in case some bug / lag out.
- Now, simply separate the teams: have them attack from 5 different angles (or 3 - 1 on each side, 3 in the middle, having 3 of the teams work together) by turning the map into corridors surrounded by lava. (careful on the distance, TRs might slip away)
Zerglings not happy? Give the above a decent GS requirement, call it epic and raise the drop chance a little. Then, give the current one a lower GS requirement, leave it as it is, and the zerglings are happy as well.
But first of all, please take a look at those bugs. People are losing countless hours trying to get those favors. :P
0
inthefade462Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I'm thinking the Cryptic had no intention of having Tiamat taken down one head at a time. That said, leave the map as it is for now, but work on modifying it in a later patch?
I see it this way:
- 25 people get in the "lobby" and find 5 waiting circles, which will each need at least 4 people on them in order for everyone to be teleported - why 4? in case some bug / lag out.
- Now, simply separate the teams: have them attack from 5 different angles (or 3 - 1 on each side, 3 in the middle, having 3 of the teams work together) by turning the map into corridors surrounded by lava. (careful on the distance, TRs might slip away)
Zerglings not happy? Give the above a decent GS requirement, call it epic and raise the drop chance a little. Then, give the current one a lower GS requirement, leave it as it is, and the zerglings are happy as well.
But first of all, please take a look at those bugs. People are losing countless hours trying to get those favors. :P
far simpler solution than an entire environmental redesign is changing the gems.
When gem is equipped in belt slot (you have the colored circle on your head) you (and only you) are immune to that color breath weapon. It is no longer an activated item that protects others from/clears effects of breath attacks. and then change the cooldown of tiamat's breath weapons to every 30s, ie starting at 2:00, 1:30, 1:00, 0:30, 0:00.
Now you need 4-5 ppl (really, you just need balanced DPS, so some heads could have 3 heavy DPS classes while other heads get 6, etc) with gem equipped per head. You can still help other groups but only in short bursts (such as you finish your head and jump down to help them finish their's off) but you can't 25man zerg it.
Also red breath attacks needs a boost, it can be tanked by basically everyone, even without dodge.
Comments
Even if you dodge you still end up with the defense debuff of the black dragon breath. I don't remember it doing any dmg, just a debuff and push, which hits me even if I dodged it. The debuff is signifigant though, after having it the demons have a tendency to 1shot me if they hit me. Now that I know that though they don't hit me anymore.
EDIT: If you wanted to make the gems personal and required, just making it so that having them in the hotbar would give a constant buff making you immune to the matching breath attack.
I don't really like your suggestion though. I like being able to help others by using the gem to protect them. The current arrangement encourages group play and lets you help out if one of the groups is struggling to bring their head down. Without the gems doing area buffs anyone trying to help the middle 3 heads would be kills as soon as the breath went off.
Joined a run late earlier and found that none of them had taken a red gem, they went to fight the red head and when the fire breath went off I was surronded by 10+ people calling for help. Was a bit amusing. I had dodge all of the damage from the breath and had not gone down.
The sad part of all this is that this Raid could have been special, but you know that bean counters told the suits at PWE that in order to make the game pop surge again, they needed to be fully inclusive with this new end game content. The problem with bean counters and suits telling the devs what is required is that they have no insight as to how to make this actually work, so the devs are left to sort it themselves and obviously were a bit overwhelmed by it.
The solution is actually quite simple with the mechanics in place already to support it. The GG PVP Queue can be modified to have a 25 player limit. It can then be tier split, with 10-14K GS players moved into a version of the fight appropriate to their gearing level and the 15KGS and up players fighting the current version of the fight. Reward levels would be appropriate to gearing the class you are in with T1 rewards and minor RP/enchant drops going to the lower level players, and T2 gear and higher level RP items going to the higher level group.
The bugs of course are another experience crushing problem that needs to be addressed. One suggestion I have there for the cowardly dragon heads is to make the area around the dragon heads a fast death zone similar to the poison dragon AOE strike until the heads are all the way up to prevent overly excited players from attacking them early and bugging them. I've got more but as I'm not paid by cryptic, I'll have to let them sort some of their own issues.
So let me get this straight. You want gems that have a long cooldown, to only protect 1 person. Basically you would get 20 seconds to attack the green head and then everyone would have to leave. i.e. not even the highest dps groups could succeed.
1. Some instances are bugged. (nr 1 for sure)
2. Sometimes you can`t kill red head of Tiamat because it is under the platform
3. Sometimes even when you kill Tiamat you don`t get any reward
4. Sometimes when you finish protecting clerics, they`d bug and you can`t get into heads because of killing dot which should be removed when clerics finish their stuff
5. Tiamat should be instanced zone like Moradin where you just can`t change instance.
6. There`s no group queue for Tiamat. It means that you just go with 24 RANDOM PEOPLE (different nationalities, some people don`t understand English so how is it possible to comunicate with them?)
7. 10.000 GS? That`s ridiculous. Imagine group with 25 10k GS people. And? Is it still possible to finish it? THINK! IS IT? Stupid The Shores of Tuern has 13k GS. And Tiamat? LET`S MAKE IT EASIER AND GIVE 10K GS. And second thing, most of people know how to increase GS without changing sets. Just buy some Dragon Enchants 6/7 put it in all set parts and you`ll easly have even 13k GS. Sounds weird? Nope that`s how it works.
8. There`s no separate chat for every instance. So how people can communicate? In SAY chat? Some people can`t see everything because the are too far... SO 24 RANDOMS WITH NO COMMUNICATION? OF COURSE YOU CAN MANAGE THAT! Cryptic said.
9. Too much dragon coins needed to fill the all 4 buffs in Tiamat. Look at the population of servers and look how many dragon coins people can gather in about an hour!
No I want to have the gems a cooldown, equal to the cooldown from Tiamats big attack. Meaning you would actually have group play, instead of everyone all over the place. Which means you would have to split up in 5 groups each on their own dragon head. Then, as you have mentioned, when a group needs help you've got 20 seconds, before you gotta run for your life.
Please make one queue with gs requirement 16k+, and one with 10k+.
Currently Tiamat is cake as long as you get a properly geared team. If you get too many low gs people on your team it is a fail.
We do want to be able to control who we play with, it should not be the right of low gear score people to attempt to be carried through Tiamat and cause a fail.
Separate queues will solve this.. the low gs people can attempt Tiamat and fail as much as they want, while those with better gear has a fair chance of winning.
Or else make it so we can control the raid setup in advance, that will effectively shut the low gs people out from Tiamat.
There is much unhappiness in zone chat about low gs people attempting to leech and causing fails.
mmm seems you want special treatment just because you have a higher gs what about my alts they have just as much right to killing tiamat EVERY time as my main yes they have ~13k gs but that doesnt exclude them from haveing the ability to contribute to the fight.
if you want an epic tiamat encounter then ask for one with NEW GS and NEW loot
while your at it ask for double cool downs on gems and 3x hp on tiamat and a breath from red that actually will 1 shot like green and blue
while you at it request for the adds at the clerics to have 3 spawn points on dreamer and moondancer and 9 on linu just to make it interesting since your an elitist and can do the instance by your self
I am not suggesting to take away your right to kill Tiamat. I just don't want to carry your low-gs alts through it and most likely fail because of them.
So you queue up for the low-gs queue, I queue up for the high-gs queue. We both get a go at Tiamat.
You will probably fail without high-gs people carrying you, but you really have no business messing with Tiamat below 16k gs anyways.
This reminds me of the time when me at 14k and 4 other 14k people did enough damage to almost kill their head in the first round. Can you imagine how much we would have failed if we were all under 16k, oh wait a minute. It's as if gear score is almost completely meaningless.
Quoted for truth. As long as there are two separate strategies that seem popular and no way to coordinate beyond your own group (presuming the stated changes are implemented within the target timeframe) then "elite" queues won't make a difference or guarantee victory.
It would merely change the dynamic from getting 24 other people to listen to you, to getting only four others.
Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com
Because of these two effects, I am more sympathetic about people that are mad about gear score. You somewhat mitigate it when you can find a time where like minded people that know the encounter go in, and you can mitigate it by just burning them all night for 12 hours putting your faith in your luck turning, but without these two things, man that raid makes you h8 10k GS.
Human nature. When dealing with people you don't know and your success is dependent on the actions of those other people, they tend to go with the plan that requires the least amount of communication or strategy, to reduce the chance of failure.
Unfortunately, the problem arises when those people have a completely different strategy, and having a separate queue would be pointless because there's simply no way to enforce a given strategy without devising two completely separate mechanics for the fight and that would create its own set of problems.
Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com
I can literally outdps 10k people by 5x or 6x the damage they deal, and im not that amazing, just sitting at 15.3k.
You shouldnt be able to farm the hardest boss in game wearing T1 gear and rank 4 enchants.
Another major, major flaw (and its really a killer) is the fact that we can get T1/T2 gear from Tiamat. What about the older dungeons, so i guess they are totally useless now.
The contribute quest % also needs fixing, the max ive seen since day1 was 14%.
The clerics bug a lot. The blue head AoE is invisible.
By the way, to other control wizard players out there. If you use Lantern and Ray of Enfeeblement, the respective head just gets melted in seconds.
Darwin. Sure some troll will try to zerg a Tactics que. From my experience with Tactics groups they can probably take Tiamat with 4 parties. So if you don't feed the trolls it works out in the end. If enough people troll it won't result in an instance win but a mess. I doubt there are that many people willing to lose their Linu on trolling....
The gs problem is unsolvable without Cryptic intervention, as it is very much in the interest of the low-gs people to leech kills off the high-gs people. As long as there is a chance to exploit a situation, it will be exploited.
Looking forward.. assuming Tiamat is just the first of several raids that will face similar challenges:
We should be able to form 5x5 supergroups outside the raidzone, with a raidleader that can rearrange the groups and inspect/kick/invite people. This takes some code work, but if Cryptic intends to move forwards with raids(please please do!!) I think this solution is a must. No more discussions about tactics and gs.
Such solutions exist in other mmorpgs, they work well.
Hate to break it to you, but attacking your own head isn't talent. It comes down to debuffs, a dps race and using a soul gem instead of dodging. I'd say CN back in the day when we didn't have inflated gs required more talent.
Zerg or tactics has nothing to do with talent or anything else you mentioned other than maybe party. It is however a plan, a plan that simplifies the herding of cats which is always difficult with a completely random pug of people. The nerd rage from the tactics people seems to disregard this.
Maybe at one point CN was like that. But in the end it became the very model of the zerg mentality. There are plently of talentless folks that have the DPS to zerg CN, and they do,and the same folks likely fail on coffers in VT. I'd say zerg vs. Tactic is a bit like CN vs. VT. In CN you mass attack and DPS race to the win. In VT you have to have 5 people coordinate, communicate, and occasionally cover for other's failures. In Zerg/ tactics the same general model applies except it is 5 parties rather than 5 players. But wure you are welcome to yur opinion. Zerg all you want. I just want a way to get a run that won't be disrupted by 5 imbeciles shouting ZEEEERRGGG BLACK!!!!! in /say.
VT is easy now with inflated GS, but if you strip your gear off and completed with 9K group then maybe we call it good group.
Tiamat fight itself is frustrating, bugged/glitched... I got my off-hand allready so using group "Brute force" as tactic is working, but still even that way only 75% succes, because few SOLOist want play per head alone or players dont see colors or bugged/lagged/glitched.
If we can make Premades for Tiamat it then brings another problem with Elitist and then most 10K are out... but try get yourself in VT with 10K GS... maybe Tiamat needs second version as Legendary and same rewards drops so Elitist get place where shine.
Umm yeah, got my OH, and 2 peice DT, and another boon. 80% of that was with Tactics groups. And not always high GS groups really just making sure people don't waste gems = success in Tactics. I've won with 12k's in my party who simply worked together and used coms. An organized Tactic party can win without high GS because they spend 100% of the uptime attacking. Not moving about, not drawing random mobs onto the platform. The reason I feel it takes more talent is experience. I have seen poorly coordinated high GS groups fail Tactics. I have seen well-coordinated lower GS groups succeed. If anything Zerg is luck of the draw. One way or another you can have an all 20k team and if they fail in coordination they will fail VT. Regardless. An all DPs high GS team can roll CN without ever even bothering to use party chat. I know. I've done it. But, again, if you want to zerg then zerg. I just want to group with people who want Tactics instead. Will it kill you if they impliment a way for people who don't want to play the way you do to play with others of the same opinion? How does that hurt you?
It's not that it will hurt anyone, it's that unless they implement full 25 man raid grouping and allow you to queue at that point it will never happen, and some of the comments I've read make it seem like that will never happen. So what we have is that people that like color parties spend their time raging and insulting everyone else for doing a zerg party. I have no in game problem doing a color tactics run if the whole group agreed but I won't try to join one at the moment because the insults that constantly fly from the pro-tactics partisans make me not want to have anything to do with them in game.
1. Check - certain instance numbers just don't give rewards.
2. Check - happened to me on the Black head... might be because it got hit before it actually managed to fully rise.
3. Check - and annoying as hell: currently, you win the game after Tiamat's dying ANIMATION completes; if you set the win to count the instant all heads reach 0 HP, instead of when the last head decides to reach the lava, this would be fixed.
4. Check - no idea what cause this, though.
5. +1
6. Check - however, I can't see a viable solution to this.
7. I still say it can be won with low GS folks, if they coordinate and don't forget how friendly debuffs are... and the gems.
EDIT 1: As for the second part, in order to NOT kill prices on T1/2 dungeon drops, how about making the loot in Tiamat BoP?
8. Say works alright for me...
9. I guess there might be some truth here.
EDIT 2: the 100% you've seen when it was launched was everyone dumping everything they had for the Favors. Since then, I personally haven't seen it fill up to Tier 2... it might have happened, but I haven't seen it.
I'm thinking the Cryptic had no intention of having Tiamat taken down one head at a time. That said, leave the map as it is for now, but work on modifying it in a later patch?
I see it this way:
- 25 people get in the "lobby" and find 5 waiting circles, which will each need at least 4 people on them in order for everyone to be teleported - why 4? in case some bug / lag out.
- Now, simply separate the teams: have them attack from 5 different angles (or 3 - 1 on each side, 3 in the middle, having 3 of the teams work together) by turning the map into corridors surrounded by lava. (careful on the distance, TRs might slip away)
Zerglings not happy? Give the above a decent GS requirement, call it epic and raise the drop chance a little. Then, give the current one a lower GS requirement, leave it as it is, and the zerglings are happy as well.
But first of all, please take a look at those bugs. People are losing countless hours trying to get those favors. :P
far simpler solution than an entire environmental redesign is changing the gems.
When gem is equipped in belt slot (you have the colored circle on your head) you (and only you) are immune to that color breath weapon. It is no longer an activated item that protects others from/clears effects of breath attacks. and then change the cooldown of tiamat's breath weapons to every 30s, ie starting at 2:00, 1:30, 1:00, 0:30, 0:00.
Now you need 4-5 ppl (really, you just need balanced DPS, so some heads could have 3 heavy DPS classes while other heads get 6, etc) with gem equipped per head. You can still help other groups but only in short bursts (such as you finish your head and jump down to help them finish their's off) but you can't 25man zerg it.
Also red breath attacks needs a boost, it can be tanked by basically everyone, even without dodge.