Well, have you counted in the time you walked from mob to mob in WoD? Because hey, the ICD doesn't care if you're in combat or off-combat. No-wonder you get 1 drop per 1 min in combat. Cause by the time you reach a mob you're at least half cooled down.
No. As I said I got drops with 20-40 seconds in between.
One was dropping in the first encounter and the next in the second encounter. The end of the second encounter was 40 seconds after the start of the first encounter and time between encounters was 20 seconds. Thus the range of 20-40 seconds.
I disagree on this, i've tested the hoarding drops with G dragon hoards borrowed from a friend, in the foundry i ran for about half an hour i got 11 drops.
Then i ran in WoD, same for about half an hour, i got only 14 drops.
Amulet of Mourning, belt filled with G dragon hoard to, equals to about 15% drop chance, if i'm right i should not be getting this few drops if the ICD isn't nerfed that badly in the normal content.
You are free to disagree. This are the number I got.
Since you are not giving the numbers of kills I the 14 dops are without context and meaningless.
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nwnghostMember, Moderators, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited November 2014
From my own testing, the ICD is foundries is simply significantly longer than in non-foundry content now, which is great for combating botters and discouraging publications of pure grind foundries for purposes of enchant drop farming.
The ICD in Open World content on the other hand seems lower than previously, approx 20 seconds instead of 30.
So I think the change was good overall and personally I think the devs made the right choice. Foundry play will now be focussed on story and content rather than bot to grind. With grind foundries slowly disappearing as a result, those foundries with actual play content will be more visible and played, which is good for the foundry author community.
Currently there is no evidence that a cool down actually exists. Only speculation.
The starter of the thread claimed it was three minutes, which I was able to proof wrong.
As long as the drop rate is in the range of what is to be expected who cares about any cool downs?
there is proof enough, ive killed 100~200 mobs in an instant(avalanche of steel in a foundry) many times and never had a double drop. in mod 4 i farmed some 4mil RP myself, there was ICD about 30 seconds. havent bothered with mod5, but in foundry test it was some 2 minutes between drops so we get 4x less RP
drop rate is useless if you get a drop 1/hour, ICD is much more important than drop rate, farming foundries 2% drop rate was enough to get a drop on cooldown or close enough, now even if i get a drop on cooldown its 4x less rp. at these rates it would take at least 170 hours for a legendary artifact equip., before it was 43 hours, how many ppl can spend 500 hours farming foundries for the new artifacts ?
foundries are(or at least were) the best place to farm since in dungeons ppl are running fast and you leave a lot of RP on the ground or go at snails pace, in maps it might be better, but there is too much trash dropping and sorting that out takes more time and fills inventory with trash.
Can a moderator may speak on this subject? Has any moderator could send a message to Cryptic the restored normal ICD in DHE and let legit players get points for our RP artifacts? BoP drop is all so what's the problem that enchantment works like before?
There is no question about it, the ICD on these (and fey blessings) were increased by four times, it's a blatant nerf, nuff said. They want people to give up farming and pay zen store rates for RP, this should be obvious. I hope when this fails to work they try something else... (like a separate artifact XP system and leave refining for enchantments).
This is going to leave a bad taste in MANY long-time player's mouths, they really should've thought this over more... How can they be so casual about such a huge nerf? "oh yeah, sure, nerf RP drops by 4 times, I'm sure nobody will notice... Oh, by the way, those new artifact items ready yet?"..... Seriously?!
Does anyone have any numbers/testing on ICD for these enchants pre mod 5?
i dont have exact tests but when i farmed foundries on gwf i did a pull every 30~40 sec and got a drop almost every time, i had 2% chance and there were 50+ mobs per pull so it was somewhere there
on cw i have 9.6 sec CD on icy terrain and a drop every 3rd or 4th cast on a nonstop spawning foundry at same chance
had 2 lesser hoard and 1 lesser fey so the cooldowns werent shared and were the same
picked out some quotes about rate and icd from that thread
just did 15min test, got 28k rp but with 1 opal so it might be 80~100k / hour of hard farming
I pegged it at about 1800 RP a minute over 8 hours of farming
Also figured out, thanks to my doohikey, those dragon hoard enchantments have 30 seconds CD, not 20 as somebody previously claimed. Doing a lot of foundry farming in between the queues :P
roughly 30 seconds, and yes, leave these enchants alone and focus on fixing things that actually matter...
i did an hour long test and got some 68k RP with 0 sapphires/opals and i have 2 lesser dragon hoard enchants
Does anyone have any numbers/testing on ICD for these enchants pre mod 5?
No testing as such, but I did farm with an encounter slotted with a 15 second cooldown, after a drop I would hit that encounter immediately and then once again when that 15 secs was up. This gave me a 30 second timer between drops.
I ran my foundry "Straight Line RP Farm" at least a hundred times doing this and as soon as the second cooldown was up and my 30 secs was elapsed I would hit the big mob with my GWF using avalanche and would get a drop 95% of the time. So I would say that 30 sec cooldown or less is safe to assume.
I have only been playing NW for a couple of months; I have nothing but subjective data. However, I got my first DH enchant 2 days before Mod 5. I have never farmed foundries; I found 1 enchant to be enough of a payback playing about 1 hour that first day on one of the ToD dailies (think it was in Neverdeath, not sure). Got 2 more the next day, all 3 were 1%. I was in heaven!
In a couple hours, again just doing dailies in Sharandar, Dread Ring, and ToD, I had a stack of pearls, about 50 peridots, a selection (10-12 ea) of resonance stones, 4 flawless sapphires, 12 aquamarines and a black opal. I only have one artifact (the first 'free' one), and this was a godsend as far as I was concerned.
The next day, WoD released, and after doing those same dailies (every day for a total of 6 days) at about the same rate of kills, etc. - I have exactly 5 resonance stones, 2 lesser resonance stones, 5 aquamarines, 41 peridots, and approximately a couple dozen pearls. Oh, and I added WoD dailies.
(Edit: That is the total after doing 6 days of dailies. The difference is staggering, although admittedly way too small a sample size to be statistically significant.)
Certainly not enough of a sample set to be conclusive, my RNG has been horrible since the new mod too, and I thought that may have been a factor. But I feel like I'm using them 'as intended' - never farmed a foundry, playing through quests, after module 5 my DC is killing things faster, and I only managed to get 2 days of decent return on my investment.
Thanks...trying to get some before and after numbers for Akro to feed to the devs....
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jennyavarielMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 167
edited November 2014
What numbers are you looking for? Was 40 second ICD. Now 3 min ICD. Since the only content that needs more a T1 set is PvP... what's the issue? Slow grind to legendary is slow grind to legendary. Nothing to see here. Move along.
What numbers are you looking for? Was 40 second ICD. Now 3 min ICD. Since the only content that needs more a T1 set is PvP... what's the issue? Slow grind to legendary is slow grind to legendary. Nothing to see here. Move along.
Duly noted, but I need numbers so I can give them to Akro to show the devs. I need to know what the ICD tested before mod 5.
ROLL TIDE ROLL
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jennyavarielMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 167
It won't matter whether it is 30 second or 3 minute or 30 minute cool down. As long as the RP items are being manipulated in the AH nobody really cares since nobody will play a game just to farm everything 240/70 or pay 360 AD for each pearl.
Before Mod 5, ICD was anywhere from 20-30 seconds. In an hour of farming (both foundry and questing), I would have to empty my bags. Now, I'll be lucky if I get anything good after an hour, and I have greater dragon hoards, Greater fey blessings, salvage and tymora on me.
Duly noted, but I need numbers so I can give them to Akro to show the devs. I need to know what the ICD tested before mod 5.
The ICD in module 4 was 30 seconds. I've seen others claim it was 20 or 25 seconds, but for me it always tested out as 30 seconds between drops. Never less.
Prior to M5: the ICD was exactly 30s
With the M5: the ICD in foundries = 2min; outside - no change (same 30s, may differ a bit as it is difficult to maintain constant kill rate).
Prior to M5: the ICD was exactly 30s
With the M5: the ICD in foundries = 2min; outside - no change (same 30s, may differ a bit as it is difficult to maintain constant kill rate).
Im pretty sure there is a change outside foundries as well. I always been farming in IWD and it appears I get much less.
Maybe it's just bad luck? I'm just running 4 lessers, and I was getting drops off of every group of mobs I hit in WoD last night (didn't time it, but it was definitely in the 20-30 second range).
I tried it in a foundry, and got considerably less.
I hadn't noticed much difference myself but if they have given them a longer ICD then I don't know what to say ,it is almost as if they are now doing things specifically to try to get people to stop playing , when I log on later I'll spend a bit of time just killing mobs and time how long between drops with my phones stopwatch.
I did that yesterday. im running 5% enchant.. in a portal foundry
1st drop started timer
2nd=2 min 7 sec
3rd drop 2 min 43 sec
4th drop 23 sec
5th drop 3 min 21 sec
6th drop 2 min
7th drop 2 min 38 sec
whereas it used to be every 20-25 seconds I would get a drop. I would have to agree they nerfed the ICD on it
Maybe it's just bad luck? I'm just running 4 lessers, and I was getting drops off of every group of mobs I hit in WoD last night (didn't time it, but it was definitely in the 20-30 second range).
I tried it in a foundry, and got considerably less.
No i tried playing with 3 hoard only - and then you get basically nothing though I have 5 % chance doing this. When I play with 5 enchants its much better (though it only gives 7 %) - However not as good as it used to be. I think that once a hoard triggers a refining stone that invidual one goes on 2 minutes cooldown - the rest of 30 seconds - so once i got 2 stones im down to playing with de facto 3 enchants. for a minute or so. However I dont have that high % to deeply test this.
But I tested several times in this way that once i triggered 2 drops i hurry to herd 15 mobs (not faster than 30 seconds) - which should give me a drop and I often get none.
Before mod 5 it was even rare if I did not get a drop when herding 10.
Prior to M5: the ICD was exactly 30s
With the M5: the ICD in foundries = 2min; outside - no change (same 30s, may differ a bit as it is difficult to maintain constant kill rate).
To me, this sounds like an acceptable, even preferable situation. I've heard a lot of people complaining here about the abuse of Foundry for farming, so reducing the most abused drop rates should cut down on that without affecting Foundry game play.
Duly noted, but I need numbers so I can give them to Akro to show the devs. I need to know what the ICD tested before mod 5.
I farm refirement stones a lot before module 5 to get my weapon and belt to legendary level. With my 12% (4 DHE) in foundry with constant kill rate I drop refirement stones in 24-35s (sometimes a bit longer but that was better drop for example flawless saphire or black opal). After module 5 dragon hoard enchantment ICD in foundry is 120s+ so it isnt cool. In normal instances (sharandar, IWD) is around 30s but is very hard to get constant kill rate to keep this ICD and with riding from one group to other ICD is around 1m+ what isn't cool too.
At this moment this sick situation make that some artifacts belt are cheaper than refirement items. Artifact prices droping down every day because noone want spend rest of his life to get 4,6kk RP to get legendary level. I dont know why I bought belts for my others toons when I cant levelup them because I spend not much time in game. Many ppl think same "why I should buy belts/caps if I cant level up it in legit way like before module 5?". Soon belt price will be similar like prices of common epic items.
After some more testing, I'm becoming quite certain that the proc rates have been increased to 2 minutes only in the Foundry. Outside the foundry I am getting drops within two minutes. I just had two peridots drop within 40 seconds of each other in the Well of Dragons. So it may just be that they are trying to choke off Foundry farmers. Which is not a bad thing.
At any rate, it would be nice if they actually disclosed what was going on. I don't buy that they need us to collect data and report back to them. This was done deliberately.
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No. As I said I got drops with 20-40 seconds in between.
One was dropping in the first encounter and the next in the second encounter. The end of the second encounter was 40 seconds after the start of the first encounter and time between encounters was 20 seconds. Thus the range of 20-40 seconds.
You are free to disagree. This are the number I got.
Since you are not giving the numbers of kills I the 14 dops are without context and meaningless.
The ICD in Open World content on the other hand seems lower than previously, approx 20 seconds instead of 30.
So I think the change was good overall and personally I think the devs made the right choice. Foundry play will now be focussed on story and content rather than bot to grind. With grind foundries slowly disappearing as a result, those foundries with actual play content will be more visible and played, which is good for the foundry author community.
there is proof enough, ive killed 100~200 mobs in an instant(avalanche of steel in a foundry) many times and never had a double drop. in mod 4 i farmed some 4mil RP myself, there was ICD about 30 seconds. havent bothered with mod5, but in foundry test it was some 2 minutes between drops so we get 4x less RP
drop rate is useless if you get a drop 1/hour, ICD is much more important than drop rate, farming foundries 2% drop rate was enough to get a drop on cooldown or close enough, now even if i get a drop on cooldown its 4x less rp. at these rates it would take at least 170 hours for a legendary artifact equip., before it was 43 hours, how many ppl can spend 500 hours farming foundries for the new artifacts ?
foundries are(or at least were) the best place to farm since in dungeons ppl are running fast and you leave a lot of RP on the ground or go at snails pace, in maps it might be better, but there is too much trash dropping and sorting that out takes more time and fills inventory with trash.
This is going to leave a bad taste in MANY long-time player's mouths, they really should've thought this over more... How can they be so casual about such a huge nerf? "oh yeah, sure, nerf RP drops by 4 times, I'm sure nobody will notice... Oh, by the way, those new artifact items ready yet?"..... Seriously?!
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i dont have exact tests but when i farmed foundries on gwf i did a pull every 30~40 sec and got a drop almost every time, i had 2% chance and there were 50+ mobs per pull so it was somewhere there
on cw i have 9.6 sec CD on icy terrain and a drop every 3rd or 4th cast on a nonstop spawning foundry at same chance
had 2 lesser hoard and 1 lesser fey so the cooldowns werent shared and were the same
posted my old thread on last page:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?769281-drops-from-Dragon-Hoard
average drop value was ~890
picked out some quotes about rate and icd from that thread
I ran my foundry "Straight Line RP Farm" at least a hundred times doing this and as soon as the second cooldown was up and my 30 secs was elapsed I would hit the big mob with my GWF using avalanche and would get a drop 95% of the time. So I would say that 30 sec cooldown or less is safe to assume.
bar - number of sections in a healthbar
There was this thread when they first came out: http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?769281-drops-from-Dragon-Hoard
And Post 90 in this thread
I have only been playing NW for a couple of months; I have nothing but subjective data. However, I got my first DH enchant 2 days before Mod 5. I have never farmed foundries; I found 1 enchant to be enough of a payback playing about 1 hour that first day on one of the ToD dailies (think it was in Neverdeath, not sure). Got 2 more the next day, all 3 were 1%. I was in heaven!
In a couple hours, again just doing dailies in Sharandar, Dread Ring, and ToD, I had a stack of pearls, about 50 peridots, a selection (10-12 ea) of resonance stones, 4 flawless sapphires, 12 aquamarines and a black opal. I only have one artifact (the first 'free' one), and this was a godsend as far as I was concerned.
The next day, WoD released, and after doing those same dailies (every day for a total of 6 days) at about the same rate of kills, etc. - I have exactly 5 resonance stones, 2 lesser resonance stones, 5 aquamarines, 41 peridots, and approximately a couple dozen pearls. Oh, and I added WoD dailies.
(Edit: That is the total after doing 6 days of dailies. The difference is staggering, although admittedly way too small a sample size to be statistically significant.)
Certainly not enough of a sample set to be conclusive, my RNG has been horrible since the new mod too, and I thought that may have been a factor. But I feel like I'm using them 'as intended' - never farmed a foundry, playing through quests, after module 5 my DC is killing things faster, and I only managed to get 2 days of decent return on my investment.
Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
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Duly noted, but I need numbers so I can give them to Akro to show the devs. I need to know what the ICD tested before mod 5.
Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
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I'm not sure but... The Devs had to change the ICD to it's current value. They probably have a pretty good idea what it was before they changed it.
The ICD in module 4 was 30 seconds. I've seen others claim it was 20 or 25 seconds, but for me it always tested out as 30 seconds between drops. Never less.
With the M5: the ICD in foundries = 2min; outside - no change (same 30s, may differ a bit as it is difficult to maintain constant kill rate).
I tried it in a foundry, and got considerably less.
I did that yesterday. im running 5% enchant.. in a portal foundry
1st drop started timer
2nd=2 min 7 sec
3rd drop 2 min 43 sec
4th drop 23 sec
5th drop 3 min 21 sec
6th drop 2 min
7th drop 2 min 38 sec
whereas it used to be every 20-25 seconds I would get a drop. I would have to agree they nerfed the ICD on it
No i tried playing with 3 hoard only - and then you get basically nothing though I have 5 % chance doing this. When I play with 5 enchants its much better (though it only gives 7 %) - However not as good as it used to be. I think that once a hoard triggers a refining stone that invidual one goes on 2 minutes cooldown - the rest of 30 seconds - so once i got 2 stones im down to playing with de facto 3 enchants. for a minute or so. However I dont have that high % to deeply test this.
But I tested several times in this way that once i triggered 2 drops i hurry to herd 15 mobs (not faster than 30 seconds) - which should give me a drop and I often get none.
Before mod 5 it was even rare if I did not get a drop when herding 10.
To me, this sounds like an acceptable, even preferable situation. I've heard a lot of people complaining here about the abuse of Foundry for farming, so reducing the most abused drop rates should cut down on that without affecting Foundry game play.
I farm refirement stones a lot before module 5 to get my weapon and belt to legendary level. With my 12% (4 DHE) in foundry with constant kill rate I drop refirement stones in 24-35s (sometimes a bit longer but that was better drop for example flawless saphire or black opal). After module 5 dragon hoard enchantment ICD in foundry is 120s+ so it isnt cool. In normal instances (sharandar, IWD) is around 30s but is very hard to get constant kill rate to keep this ICD and with riding from one group to other ICD is around 1m+ what isn't cool too.
At this moment this sick situation make that some artifacts belt are cheaper than refirement items. Artifact prices droping down every day because noone want spend rest of his life to get 4,6kk RP to get legendary level. I dont know why I bought belts for my others toons when I cant levelup them because I spend not much time in game. Many ppl think same "why I should buy belts/caps if I cant level up it in legit way like before module 5?". Soon belt price will be similar like prices of common epic items.
At any rate, it would be nice if they actually disclosed what was going on. I don't buy that they need us to collect data and report back to them. This was done deliberately.
Mod5 release day. Drop rate seemed lower.
Mod5 patch 2 days later. Drop rate seemed about the same prior mod5.
Regular playing, no foundry.
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