Ok, before I give these suggestions a few things the devs should understand.
1. GF has the LOWEST weapon damage of ALL the classes.
2. Conqueror GFs want to focus on PERSONAL damage, which means they want to fight WITHOUT ITF & KV. Keeping that in mind GF's that DO use ITF&KV will get +50% more damage than a conqueror that doesn't use them. So the conqueror path should get a MINIMUM 50% damage boost to keep personal damage on par with GF's that use ITF/KV.
3. Even IF the conqueror path gets a 50% damage boost, remember that if a conqueror doesn't use ITV/KV overall group damage will take a HUGE hit because CW doesn't get a 50% damage bonus, GWF doesn't get a 50% damage bonus, HR doesn't a 50% damage bonus, SW doesn't a 50% damage bonus, etc etc etc. Basically the group gets a 250% damage bonus from the ITF/KV combo which is 2 extra group members. So even a 100% damage bonus isn't optimal for conquerors, but most I think would appreciate the conqueror path actually becoming a valid DPS path.
Now, the suggestions:
1. Make staggering challenge a straight 40% damage bonus to all hits.
2. Increase Cruel Cut Style to 8/16/24/32/40% damage bonus.
3. Increase Tactical superiority to 4/8/12/16/20% damage bonus.
4. Increase Reinforced Surge to 4/8/12/16/20% damage bonus
5. Increase Stunning Flourish to and extra 15/30/45/60/75% chance to crit
6. Increase Reckless Attacker to 10% damage bonus and 4% crits, stacks up to 5 times.
7. Increase Menacing Impact to 5/10/15/20/25% damage bonus
Venril Sathir- CW
Venril- SW
Lurch- GF
Mini Ven- DC
I dont understand the aversion towards ideas that would give the GF more options regarding encounters and make it more diverse to play. Arguing that other classes are locked in rotations and thus we should be content with ours, is not taking in consideration how the other classes rotation work.
No other class has an encounter which once activated doesnt require any activity other than blocking. My conq with shield talent slotted has no trouble maintaining block for longer durations so i assume that permablock is a reality, which in my opinion is not a fun way of running dungeons. Just because i dont like that playstyle doesnt mean that i argue for its removal, but i want the option of being able to combine other powers that would be equaly viable. As it is now GF are locked into using certain powers because we dont have anything else to bring to the table. And once people have outgeared the newer content GF:s will once again find themselves in a dark place.
Claiming that asking for too much is gluttoneous and it will upset the balance is just plain wrong when comparing to the other classes. CW:s can solo CN, thats the state of the game now. We can wish all we want for a balanced game were every class has its role and thus being dependent of each other to be successful in dungeons, but in reality that is not the case. For the GF to have its own place we need more diversity regarding encounters and at least around 20% more damage (not arguing for the GF to outDPS the DPS classes but at the moment there is no contest).
This is a great opportunity, at least in thoery, for the GF to get proper attention from the dvs, so pls dont sell the class short.
The devs,particularly Crush,in the past he stated that he sees GF as a controller in a wide sense/tank type.So he/they would not agree to get s big damage buffs.
The truth is (that most other classes forget it) that we have a clear by definition DPS branch ,the Conqueror.
Conq took some buffs prior to mod4 and he was in adequate position.But the other melee classes took more buffs(combat HRs) and that made us obsolete again.Not only Conqs but GFs in general.
I will not ask for huge damage buffs but for minor things:
Self heals.All are relics of the past.4% every 40 secs? This is design from the beta.And designed around the opponent dps available back then.
1.Shielded Resurgence:When affected by a control power gain 2/3/4 of your max hit points .This happens every 40 secs.
Buff:Make it 3/6/9 every 40 secs.
2.Grit:Gain 1/2/3% of your max hit points when healed by a player power.40 second cooldawn.
Buff it to 2/4/6 % every 40 secs.
3.Ubiquitous Shield:Reduces the combat advantage bonus damage to you by 5/10/15/20/25%.
This is the definition of obsolence.Investing 5 points to get a 25% damage decrease to a CA.CA is normally 15% more damage.So you take about 3% less damage.LOL
Rework:Reduce the Crowd control duration to you by 3/6/9/12/15%.
Mind you that Gf does not have high deflect and he is the n1 easy class for any CC class.
4.Pin Dawn:Current state is improve the duration of your prones by 0.1/0.2/0.3 secs ( )
Rework 0.2/0.4/0.6 secs.
5.Take Measure:When you are crit you gain 1/2/3/4/5 % of your max hit points .Cool dawn 50 secs.Change it to:
>>>> >>>> 2/3/4/6/8/10 >>>>>> .Cool dawn 40 secs.
6.Wrathfull Warrior:Currently the effect lasts only 2 secs (!) .Basically i have seen the icon of wrathfull warrior (a raised fist) 2 times in one year i play NW.The effect is extremely short duration .I doubt it is enough for an alt will.
Suggestion:Increase its duration to 2/4/6/8/10 secs per rank.keep damage same.
7.Stunning Flourish:Currently 1/2/3/4/5% more chance to crit per rank and stuns for 0.2/0.4/0.6/0.8/1 sec.
With classes running with 40-55% deflect and tenacity "Stunning Flourish" is not stunning anymore.
Increase its stun duration to 0.3/0.6/0.9/1.2/1.5 secs.
And really shorten its animation.HRs prones are instant and always outpace GWF/GFs Flourishes.Shorten animation (or faster activation time,same thing) by 15-20%.
8.Griffon's Wrath.Same problem with Flourish.Plus that can be missed.While enemy classes have auto lock.
Make Griffon autolock.
9.Tactical Superiority:Curently adds a 5% bonus damage.Make it 2/4/6/8/10 per rank.
If that's too much dps for some :
Add 1/2/3/4/5% crit per rank plus the existing 1/2/3/4/5 bonus damage.
9.Menacing Impact:Curentlly adds 1/2/3/4/5 feet range to Villain's Meanace and 2/4/6/810% damage to both Terrifying Impact and Villain's Menace. Buff it to 3/6/9/12/15 feet and damage to 3/6/9/12/15%.Currently range is really to short.This is a pve power you ll have no cries from pvpers.
10.Plate Agility:Increase its deflect bonus to 2/4/6/8/10%.
11.Staying Power:Currently only 10% dr to your powers.Tide of Iron has 20%.So why to use it?
Buff it on par with ToI.20% at final rank.
12.Crushing Pin:Improve its duration from 3 secs to 5.
13.Make Griffon's Wrath affected by recovery.13 secs with 2400 recovery for a refill i think is too much.
Make each charge refill at 11 secs.
14.Crushing Surge:Fasten its animation.Remove the third hit animation is too ugly.Just place the second in its place.
Even better put the animation of Griffon's .All Gfs love that animation
15.Crescendo can be interrupted.This is should not happening."while attacking you are immune to control effects".Buggy for ever.Make Crescendo really cc resistant.
16.Flourish Animation again:Either make the animation cc or make it faster.Currently unusable against HRs.Interrupted all the time.
17.Iron Warrior:The temp hp are extremely low.I think they are 1k at max rank.make them 1,5k hp per IW rank.
These...
As all see i did not asked for any pvp based encounter /power damage increase.Just minor buffs and fixes.
Our obsolete heals should be buffed.Our animations faster.
And tactical superiority to add a 1/2/3/4/5 crit per rank.Comparing my suggestions to what other classes,mostly HR Combat,have ,i ask for very minor things.Please consider them.
N1 priorities should be our obsolete self heals and our really long animations.
The devs,particularly Crush,in the past he stated that he sees GF as a controller in a wide sense/tank type.So he/they would not agree to get s big damage buffs.
The truth is (that most other classes forget it) that we have a clear by definition DPS branch ,the Conqueror.
Conq took some buffs prior to mod4 and he was in adequate position.But the other melee classes took more buffs(combat HRs) and that made us obsolete again.Not only Conqs but GFs in general.
I will not ask for huge damage buffs but for minor things:
Self heals.All are relics of the past.4% every 40 secs? This is design from the beta.And designed around the opponent dps available back then.
I will support these changes because we all have to agree on SOMETHING but the problem will be Conqueror branch is still a joke for PVE DPS.
GF's will still be locked into ITF/KV for PVE.
Yes, some GF's will NOT use ITF/KV in groups and be higher on the paingivers, but really that is a stupid option because not only do they lose a 50-60% damage bonus, but the CW's, SW's, GWF's, and the other DPS classes lose 50-60% damage bonus and it's a slower group. That is, if they are not kicked in the 1st 5 minutes for not using ITF/KV.
Venril Sathir- CW
Venril- SW
Lurch- GF
Mini Ven- DC
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damnaciousMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 354Arc User
1. Make staggering challenge a straight 40% damage bonus to all hits.
2. Increase Cruel Cut Style to 8/16/24/32/40% damage bonus.
3. Increase Tactical superiority to 4/8/12/16/20% damage bonus.
4. Increase Reinforced Surge to 4/8/12/16/20% damage bonus
5. Increase Stunning Flourish to and extra 15/30/45/60/75% chance to crit
6. Increase Reckless Attacker to 10% damage bonus and 4% crits, stacks up to 5 times.
7. Increase Menacing Impact to 5/10/15/20/25% damage bonus
I agree that Conqueror and GF DPS in general need an increase, yet I also see that increase these Feats to provide Conquerors with a competitive DPS without using KV and ItF is all well and good, however increasing these does not also prevent the Conqueror from ALSO taking these increases and STILL using KV and ItF at the same time for a... what? 100% Damage increase?
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damnaciousMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 354Arc User
edited November 2014
I've been toying with a potential change to Reckless Attacker that goes something like:
Reckless Attacker: Permanently sacrifice 50% of your current Damage Resistance % and gain that % amount as an increase to Damage. In addition, gain a stack of Reckless Attacker each time you are hit which increases Critical Chance and Damage by 2%. Stacks up to 5 times.
I thought that would be a more accurate reflection of what the Reckless Attacker should be like, which forces the Conqueror to sacrifice some significant amounts of their survivability in exchange for a greater increase in their capacity to deal damage.
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damnaciousMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 354Arc User
edited November 2014
BUGS:
GF Mark is inconsistent as all other forms of Mark (including GWF Marks) give 20% DR debuff EXCEPT Enforced Threat which only gives 8% DR debuff.
Conqueror Feat “Staggering Challenge” does not display any visual or log confirmation that the Feat ability has triggered and should.
Boar charge can prone a Gf even while in Villain's Menace.
After a HR’s Disruptive Shot duration ends on a Gf and can use Encounters, the GF’s Guard remains unusable for additional 0.5-1.5 secs.
Fox shift melee ignores Block.
SUGGESTIONS:
Any and all powers that generate threat alone, such as Mark and Enhanced Mark, should be folded into other existing powers. Let the threat be generated based on how much of an actual threat the tank is. Let the tank's powers be to actually do things that inconvenience, hurt, slow, debuff, weaken, or damage the target. That will instantly give GF's a much better option in play, in PvP, and in character builds.
Increase the movement speed of the GF with and without Blocking.
Shorten the casting animation of Villain’s Menace, Crushing Surge, Weapon Master’s Strike and Flourish.
Bull Charge, Knee Breaker, Flourish and Anvil of Doom need their range slightly increased.
Steel Grace is obsolete and should be increased to 36% at tier 3.
Mark Focus to be permanent.
Tactical Superiority should give a 1% more critical per rank.
Ubiquitous Shield rework: increase your CC resistance by 2/4/6/8/10%.
Shielded Resurgence: Increase its healing to 5/10/15%.
Grit: Increase its healing to 3/6/9%.
Take Measure: Increae its healing to 3/6/9/12/15 % or decreaae its cooldown to 25 secs.
Stunning Flourish feat: Increase its stun to 3 secs agaisnt players and increase its critical chance to 2/4/6/8/10%.
Reckless Attacker activates when entering ‘battle stance’, which starts a timer and each second after its been activated the GF receives a stack of Reckless Attacker. At 3 stacks it lasts for the entire fight, and when combat finishes it resets. Stacks should be a maximum of 3 with 2/3/5% Crit Chance and 5/10/20% damage increase.
WMS animation is awkward and rigid and it should be changed into something more fluid.
Tab Function:
If you mark a target and they do not attack the GF, it enables (for a short time) a "followup" attack that can stun the target for say 1 second.
Either Knight’s Valor, Into the Fray, Iron Warrior or Knight’s Challenge can be slotted over the Tab and will be constantly activated unless the GF is proned or stunned. If that happens then they will get the same ICD as they have in the tray and after that reactivate on their own. So Tab Mark will work as it does now and the above mentioned powers will be working in the background for some of the buffs and then add additional buffs and bonuses when marking targets.
Knights Valor
Slotted with TAB: Constant uptime same bonuses as now (50% damage intercepted the damage reduction and threat building on top of it). When marking an enemy the party gets an additional 5% DR vs that enemy and the marked enemy’s damage is reduced by 5%.
Slotted in tray: Same bonuses as it has now with an additional 15% damage mitigation. But it loses its ability to be up all the time and instead lasts for 8-10 seconds with an ICD of 8 secs.
Iron Warrior
Slotted with TAB: Gives the entire party 40% temp hitpoint based on the missing hit points up to 15% of their max HP and the temp hit points drain in 5s. This should have a timer which starts when slotted and procs every 10s after that. So plyer X has 30K hit points. He gets hit and loses 15k. 0.4x15K=6000 but since it can only give back 15% of max hit points it will give 4,5k temp hit points for 5s or less if he gets hit again. So every 10s iron warrior checks party’s health and distributes temp hit points to everyone if needed. When marking targets everyone gets 5% stamina increase over 5 seconds and another 5s icd after that.
Slotted in tray: Same thing as it does now.
Knights Challenge
Slotted with TAB: Only applies to the marked enemy and gives between 50-100% damage increase for the GF and between 25-50& damage increase for the rest of the party against the marked target. The marked target deals 50-100% more damage against the GF and 25-50% more against the rest of the party.
Slotted in tray: Exactly the same as it is now.
In to the Fray
Slotted with TAB: Regenerates AP up to 75% of max AP in 3minutes. Any player will get AP regeneration from it until they reach 75% AP after that it stops and start the regeneration process again next time the AP drops under 75%. So it checks every single player in the party every 2s or so. Also increases party run speed, slower than it is now, but allow the GF to get higher speed increase that the rest. When marking a target the entire party gets another 10% damage increase against all sources.
Slotted in tray: Same bonuses as it has now with two exceptions. First allow the GF to cast it while moving, and second give the GF higher run speed from it compared to the rest of the party. Acquiring and maintaining aggro is a lot easier when being first in to the battle.
Shielded Resurgence: Increase to 5% at Rank 3.
Grit: increase to 5/7.5/10% and lower the cool-down from 40 to 30 sec.
Take Measure: Lower the cool-down from 50 sec to 35-40 sec and buff the amount of Temporary Hit Points or lower the cool-down to 15 sec and keep the same amount.
Change Bull Charge to a Stun.
Knee Breaker: needs to have an increased slow effect for more efficient utility in keeping targets within striking distance, such as 50% run speed. Also activation and range of Knee Breaker should be increased slightly.
Griffons Wrath: This ability needs a shorter CD with preferably no charges.
GFs need a clear visual indicator of what gets blocked or not. Sometimes it can be hard to determine if something gets blocked, if it's an attack from the edge of the blocked area. A semi-circle at the base of the character similar to the one that tells you where you can get combat advantage, possibly with some faded lines extending outwards a little bit to show the exact boundaries of what gets blocked and not would be helpful.
Make staggering challenge a straight 40% damage bonus to all hits.
Increase Cruel Cut Style to 8/16/24/32/40% damage bonus.
Increase Tactical superiority to 4/8/12/16/20% damage bonus.
Increase Reinforced Surge to 4/8/12/16/20% damage bonus.
Increase Stunning Flourish to and extra 15/30/45/60/75% chance to crit.
Increase Reckless Attacker to 10% damage bonus and 4% crits, stacks up to 5 times.
Increase Menacing Impact to 5/10/15/20/25% damage bonus.
Shielded Resurgence: improve to 3/6/9% every 40 secs.
Grit: improve to 2/4/6 % every 40 secs.
Ubiquitous Shield: Reduce the Crowd control duration to you by 3/6/9/12/15%.
Pin Down: Rework to 0.2/0.4/0.6 secs.
Take Measure: Change it to 2/3/4/6/8/10% with a cool-down of 40 secs.
Wrathful Warrior: Increase its duration to 2/4/6/8/10 secs per rank.
Stunning Flourish: Increase its duration to 0.3/0.6/0.9/1.2/1.5 secs and shorten its animation by 15-20%.
Griffon's Wrath: Increase its duration to 0.3/0.6/0.9/1.2/1.5 secs and shorten its animation by 15-20%. Make Griffon’s Wrath autolock so attacks cannot miss. Each charge should refill in 11 second and should be affected by Recovery.
Tactical Superiority: Make it 2/4/6/8/10% per rank or, 1/2/3/4/5% Crit Chance per rank plus the existing 1/2/3/4/5 bonus damage.
Menacing Impact: Buff it to 3/6/9/12/15 feet and damage to 3/6/9/12/15%. Currently range is too short and needs to be increased.
Plate Agility: Increase its Deflect bonus to 2/4/6/8/10%.
Staying Power: Buff to 20% at final rank.
Crushing Pin: Improve duration to 5 seconds.
Crushing Surge: Fasten its animation and remove the third hit animation or use the Griffon’s Wrath animation.
Crescendo can be interrupted. This is should not happening. Make Crescendo really cc resistant.
Flourish: Either make the animation CC Immune or make it faster.
Iron Warrior: Increase Temporary Hit Points to 1.5k Hit Points per Rank.
Tactical Superiority: add a 1/2/3/4/5% Crit Chance per rank.
COMMENTS:
The GF is definitely in a better place now than it was in mod 3 and 2 but there is always room for improvement.
Take Measure: Another nice feat, just need some adjustments.
Grit: This power is barely visible on the Hit Point bar and with mobs hitting up to 70k this is just not enough. This power also points out and fortifies the DCs role as a brother/sister to the GF.
Shielded Resurgence: This is maybe one of the best made feats in the whole game.
It’s boring the other 6 class get Demigod buffs and they are all looking now like Galactus.
As a DPS tree, Conqueror is coming up way short.
GFs in PVP are facing extinction as, compared to other classes, they have the lowest Deflect stats, are easily Crowd Controlled, do not possess the capability to deliver DoT attacks and possess negligible effective self-healing, particularly when compared to the average damage dealt by other classes.
Overall, the GF is a striker/controller that needs to exemplify "you can contain foes and keep them away from your friends." Adding more melee oriented stuns, like griffons wrath, is ideal for the direction of the class. With bull charge being a stun, Tab function adding a griffons Wrath like stun, and things like Knee Breaker, it should be in the GFs power to attack and retain foes within melee striking distance. GF's should be vulnerable at range (which they are) but a force to be reckoned with at melee distance.
Would like to see some simple and logical rebalancing where the difference between the most damage a GF can do is compared to the most damage from any other class and the difference is then equal to what our increased survivability should be.
For the GF to have its own place we need more diversity regarding encounters and at least around 20% more damage (not arguing for the GF to outDPS the DPS classes but at the moment there is no contest).
If any buffs were done to increase our damage significantly with 2 new skills we would replace Into the Fray and Knight’s Valor in a heartbeat and happily be locked into using those 2 skills. Into the Fray and Knight’s Valor are actual abilities and more importantly, they're getting us groupage and a lot of it. Please leave them alone.
PREVIEW COMMENTS:
PVP on Preview is a freaking joke. We are essentially worthless other than to stand at mid with Knight’s Valor up. When you get proned once in mod 5 all 50-70k of your HP will be gone in seconds.
GF stand very well and they take all the damage and offers good taunts.
The one sneaky nerf added this last patch was to GF’s Knight’s Valor. Now it only affects the closest 5 people. KV is one of the most important ways a GF helps the group. This is one of the only real ways a defensive GF can do some decent damage on HEs and soon the tiamat encounter. You already added a range restriction; there is no reason for this nerf. The GF is in a good place right now, in fact the GF class restructure you did in mod4 should set the standard for how you do all the classes. You established a meaningful role for the GF and allow the flexibility to go DPS or defensive. You did a great job with the GF now don’t F^%* IT UP!
beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
edited November 2014
Honestly, I think the KV change is necessary. They could get rid of or tone down the visuals to address some of the lag it's creating, but I think it's overall been doing a lot more than was ever intended with the effect being applied the way it has been. Affecting more than 5 allies really only matters on HEs, and it's on HEs where more than one GF is using KV where you get most of the atrocious interactions. And in town, I for one have been scrambling to get out of line of sight of GFs with it toggled on because it bogs my system there too. I also note that most of the GFs that I observe actually playing the class well on HEs, aren't even using KV. It is not and should not be the only tool in the kit.
One thing I was mulling over while playing GF on the weekend was what I feel is a lack of responsiveness in tab-marking. It takes long enough to activate that I often find myself cancelling my own efforts to mark by taking another action, which means that what I want to do is mark then attack, but I end up only attacking. I don't know if it would be improved by making it a queue-able action, or if that can even be done. It might also just be me and middle-aged reflexes.
KV affecting more than 5 people was never intended, every true GF knows that. It was a bug that came after a patch. So no point on saying that it was a nerf.
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schweifer1982Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,662Arc User
That change would hurt conquerors a lot in PvP; halving damage resistance would result in other players' Armor Penetration (at 20-30%, even more is not uncommon) basically nullifying that damage resistance which is left. It would leave conquerors incredibly squishy, and the damage increase would either be too much (resulting in more one-rotation kills, which would be cause for nerfs later on), or not enough (resulting in more dead conquerors making fewer kills).
Lol The % to be sacrificed is not a definite but a figure used as an example. I tried to look at the situation and identify approximately how much of a damage increase Conquerors actually need. From the testing i've done and the feedback from people i have spoken to, the general opinion seems to be that an increase of 20% to the Conqueror's damage would balance it out, if that was also used in conjunction with a general ~10% increase to the class damage overall plus increases in Critical chance % and Prone/Stun durations.
So, with that type of rework to the mechanics of the capstone, it would allow for greater flexibility in 'fine tuning' the damage of the Conqueror. Even a 20% sacrifice of DR % could yield a 9-10% increase to damage, which might be a suitably balanced amount.
For PvP, conquerors are in a pretty good place right now (though that may change a lot with the upcoming balance changes). For PvE damage performance, it's probably better to look at some area damage; boosting Cleave, Enforced Threat and Frontline Surge damage, maybe giving some powers Intimidation-style effects.
Some good suggestions. In the main, GFs seem capable in PVP (except against certain classes...), yet their damage is far from consistent in comparison to other classes, where the GFs damage will tend to spike quite dramatically given certain circumstances. This apparent lack of consistent DPS does not seem to be offset by any increase to the mitigation and survivability of the GF. For example, the difference in average DPS between a similarly geared GF and, say, a HR is most often greater than the difference between their mitigation and survivability and seems to favor those other classes.
I can see what you're thinking in terms of lower damage resistance making ITF less attractive to spec and giving the conqueror incentives to spec other abilities, but that would also result in a nerf of one of the most useful GF PvE powers, reducing the overall attractiveness of conquerors in dungeons too, because their increased damage won't nearly outweigh that loss in group buff potential, and they would make paper tanks.
Not at all. That might happen to be a by-product of the concept, yet it is not the motivation. It also by no means prohibits the Conqueror GF from stacking Defence, toggling on KV and using ItF, for example. What I believe it may do is provide the much needed increase to DPS for the Conqueror, reflect the idea of the Reckless Attacker more appropriately, help to establish more firmly the role of the Conqueror Path as DPS orientated rather than as that of a 'Tank' and allow Conqueror GFs (at least) to have greater flexibility in their slotted Powers without sacrificing significant benefits to them.
What it does mean is that if a player wants to choose Conqueror as a Path then they must be prepared to deal more damage generally at the expense of survivability. This doesn't mean that a Conqueror can't 'tank', just that by focussing on DPS, their capacity to 'tank' is lessened. So, yes. It is likely that a DPS focussed Conqueror GF using this mechanic would make a pretty poor tank. Their tanking capability would likely be no better than that of any other DPS class. However, a mitigation and Hit Point heavy Conqueror using this mechanic would still make a very suitable tank but, as is logical to expect, they would not have the same survivability as that of a Protector for example.
As for comments regarding how mitigation has not really increased proportionally with that of damage over each Mod, I think it is good to clear up that mitigation works to reduce a % of damage received. This means the problem isn't so much that increases to mitigation are necessary for the GFs survivability to remain current, but rather it is the GFs Hit Points that need to be increased (somewhat) proportionally to increases of DPS.
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schweifer1982Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,662Arc User
edited November 2014
"GFs Hit Points that need to be increased (somewhat) proportionally to increases of DPS"
Solution :
When the big hammer nerf came out they say its too powerfull now and also they say mybe they will implement it later .
I think the time have come to implement this set bonus.
There is also the problem of GF's being left behind in dungeons, when they should be the 1st to arrive at every fight to grab agro and tank. All the other classes get movement buffs, while the GF has only ITF, which affects the whole group.
A run speed buff is definitely needed.
Venril Sathir- CW
Venril- SW
Lurch- GF
Mini Ven- DC
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ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
There is also the problem of GF's being left behind in dungeons, when they should be the 1st to arrive at every fight to grab agro and tank. All the other classes get movement buffs, while the GF has only ITF, which affects the whole group.
A run speed buff is definitely needed.
Blame the other fools, not the GF. If they rush, die, and cry, not our fault.
Blame the other fools, not the GF. If they rush, die, and cry, not our fault.
Yeah I know, but if they wait for us it slows down the run because we don't have movement speed up on the shift key. It would be nice if we at least had a chance to get to the fight 1st.
Venril Sathir- CW
Venril- SW
Lurch- GF
Mini Ven- DC
I'm pretty sure that is the intended utility of Lunging Strike.
When I'm tanking without KV, that is typically what I do to get in front of my speed demon teammates and let off an ET before anyone else gets the chance to aggro anything.
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ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
Yeah I know, but if they wait for us it slows down the run because we don't have movement speed up on the shift key. It would be nice if we at least had a chance to get to the fight 1st.
Now that's just hypocrisy if you ask for a GF to join the party and then complain about them.
Besides, the most heavily armored class in the game should not be as mobile anyway...
Yeah I know, but if they wait for us it slows down the run because we don't have movement speed up on the shift key. It would be nice if we at least had a chance to get to the fight 1st.
Leave first. This isn't everquest, nobody needs a GF to tank the last mob until it dies. I usually start picking things up at 2 and leave camp at 1.
There are new PvP armor sets coming, which are upgraded versions of existing armor sets. That raises a couple of issues:
- the set bonus is +625 Defense. GFs have issues with stacking Defense well into very strong diminishing returns territory anyway. It would be nice if the GF PvP set bonus was changed into +2,450 Hit Points instead. Or something else, like Control Resist or even Deflection.
+1 to this
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damnaciousMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 354Arc User
that is actually the best i could do...maybe i just suck
I don't think you 'suck' at all. I've fought against Sicarius a few times and I remember him always being BiS and a good player.
Perhaps you could provide a bit more detail regarding your feedback?
I assume you are trying to demonstrate that GFs have difficulty against a TR in Mod5.
I assume you're equally similarly geared? Perhaps you could confirm what specs, gear etc. was being used?
It's a bit difficult to see in the video how much damage the TR was doing and what he was using and whether that damage was Blocked or not by you, levels of Crit and the impact of mitigation.
Not to diminish the value of your feedback in any way, yet would it be possible for you to produce a similar video with damage logs or ACT available please? I think hard data of some sort would be of enormous assistance to the Developers.
I don't think you 'suck' at all. I've fought against Sicarius a few times and I remember him always being BiS and a good player.
Perhaps you could provide a bit more detail regarding your feedback?
I assume you are trying to demonstrate that GFs have difficulty against a TR in Mod5.
I assume you're equally similarly geared? Perhaps you could confirm what specs, gear etc. was being used?
It's a bit difficult to see in the video how much damage the TR was doing and what he was using and whether that damage was Blocked or not by you, levels of Crit and the impact of mitigation.
Not to diminish the value of your feedback in any way, yet would it be possible for you to produce a similar video with damage logs or ACT available please? I think hard data of some sort would be of enormous assistance to the Developers.
he died in 40 seconds, what is to be told?
his attacks didnt reach the TR at all.
because of 2 reasons: 1st the tr is skillful and 2nd: the TR has good mechanics of dodgin/stealthing and being immune ITC from any damage/prones/stuns.
this is actually a feedback brought on the idea the GF underperfoms against the new TR.
similar fights are between GWF and TR.
GF is good as it is now, maybe SMALL tweaks or adjustments to some things that didnt work as the tooltip .
i want to see a fight between CW and GF , and GF vs GWF.
those fights are more balanced IMO.
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damnaciousMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 354Arc User
he died in 40 seconds, what is to be told?
his attacks didnt reach the TR at all.
because of 2 reasons: 1st the tr is skillful and 2nd: the TR has good mechanics of dodgin/stealthing and being immune ITC from any damage/prones/stuns.
this is actually a feedback brought on the idea the GF underperfoms against the new TR.
similar fights are between GWF and TR.
GF is good as it is now, maybe SMALL tweaks or adjustments to some things that didnt work as the tooltip .
i want to see a fight between CW and GF , and GF vs GWF.
those fights are more balanced IMO.
What i'm trying to highlight is that simply posting a video in that manner as 'feedback' isn't necessarily as constructive as it could be.
Consider it this way:
What gear was the GF using?
What gear was the TR using?
What builds were each using?
What Powers was the TR using?
What damage did the TR do: Raw, after mitigation, after Blocking?
Is the damage unreasonable, odd or working as intended?
As to directly responding to your statements...I could post a video of a level 60 GF in BiS gear fighting a TR in level 10 gear and use it to demonstrate that GF are 'OP'. Similarly, i could post a video of a level 60 TR geared in Uncommon equipment and no enchants kill a BiS GF in the same time because the GF isn't Blocking any of the TRs big hits.
Simply posting a video without having available any other data does not really help all that much, particularly as there are a few 'bugs' already known about certain TR builds at present and if this was one of those types of TRs then it wouldn't necessarily be entirely relevant feedback then would it?
Comments
1. GF has the LOWEST weapon damage of ALL the classes.
2. Conqueror GFs want to focus on PERSONAL damage, which means they want to fight WITHOUT ITF & KV. Keeping that in mind GF's that DO use ITF&KV will get +50% more damage than a conqueror that doesn't use them. So the conqueror path should get a MINIMUM 50% damage boost to keep personal damage on par with GF's that use ITF/KV.
3. Even IF the conqueror path gets a 50% damage boost, remember that if a conqueror doesn't use ITV/KV overall group damage will take a HUGE hit because CW doesn't get a 50% damage bonus, GWF doesn't get a 50% damage bonus, HR doesn't a 50% damage bonus, SW doesn't a 50% damage bonus, etc etc etc. Basically the group gets a 250% damage bonus from the ITF/KV combo which is 2 extra group members. So even a 100% damage bonus isn't optimal for conquerors, but most I think would appreciate the conqueror path actually becoming a valid DPS path.
Now, the suggestions:
1. Make staggering challenge a straight 40% damage bonus to all hits.
2. Increase Cruel Cut Style to 8/16/24/32/40% damage bonus.
3. Increase Tactical superiority to 4/8/12/16/20% damage bonus.
4. Increase Reinforced Surge to 4/8/12/16/20% damage bonus
5. Increase Stunning Flourish to and extra 15/30/45/60/75% chance to crit
6. Increase Reckless Attacker to 10% damage bonus and 4% crits, stacks up to 5 times.
7. Increase Menacing Impact to 5/10/15/20/25% damage bonus
Venril- SW
Lurch- GF
Mini Ven- DC
No other class has an encounter which once activated doesnt require any activity other than blocking. My conq with shield talent slotted has no trouble maintaining block for longer durations so i assume that permablock is a reality, which in my opinion is not a fun way of running dungeons. Just because i dont like that playstyle doesnt mean that i argue for its removal, but i want the option of being able to combine other powers that would be equaly viable. As it is now GF are locked into using certain powers because we dont have anything else to bring to the table. And once people have outgeared the newer content GF:s will once again find themselves in a dark place.
Claiming that asking for too much is gluttoneous and it will upset the balance is just plain wrong when comparing to the other classes. CW:s can solo CN, thats the state of the game now. We can wish all we want for a balanced game were every class has its role and thus being dependent of each other to be successful in dungeons, but in reality that is not the case. For the GF to have its own place we need more diversity regarding encounters and at least around 20% more damage (not arguing for the GF to outDPS the DPS classes but at the moment there is no contest).
This is a great opportunity, at least in thoery, for the GF to get proper attention from the dvs, so pls dont sell the class short.
The truth is (that most other classes forget it) that we have a clear by definition DPS branch ,the Conqueror.
Conq took some buffs prior to mod4 and he was in adequate position.But the other melee classes took more buffs(combat HRs) and that made us obsolete again.Not only Conqs but GFs in general.
I will not ask for huge damage buffs but for minor things:
Self heals.All are relics of the past.4% every 40 secs?
1.Shielded Resurgence:When affected by a control power gain 2/3/4 of your max hit points .This happens every 40 secs.
Buff:Make it 3/6/9 every 40 secs.
2.Grit:Gain 1/2/3% of your max hit points when healed by a player power.40 second cooldawn.
Buff it to 2/4/6 % every 40 secs.
3.Ubiquitous Shield:Reduces the combat advantage bonus damage to you by 5/10/15/20/25%.
This is the definition of obsolence.Investing 5 points to get a 25% damage decrease to a CA.CA is normally 15% more damage.So you take about 3% less damage.LOL
Rework:Reduce the Crowd control duration to you by 3/6/9/12/15%.
Mind you that Gf does not have high deflect and he is the n1 easy class for any CC class.
4.Pin Dawn:Current state is improve the duration of your prones by 0.1/0.2/0.3 secs (
Rework 0.2/0.4/0.6 secs.
5.Take Measure:When you are crit you gain 1/2/3/4/5 % of your max hit points .Cool dawn 50 secs.Change it to:
>>>> >>>> 2/3/4/6/8/10 >>>>>> .Cool dawn 40 secs.
6.Wrathfull Warrior:Currently the effect lasts only 2 secs (!) .Basically i have seen the icon of wrathfull warrior (a raised fist) 2 times in one year i play NW.The effect is extremely short duration .I doubt it is enough for an alt will.
Suggestion:Increase its duration to 2/4/6/8/10 secs per rank.keep damage same.
7.Stunning Flourish:Currently 1/2/3/4/5% more chance to crit per rank and stuns for 0.2/0.4/0.6/0.8/1 sec.
With classes running with 40-55% deflect and tenacity "Stunning Flourish" is not stunning anymore.
Increase its stun duration to 0.3/0.6/0.9/1.2/1.5 secs.
And really shorten its animation.HRs prones are instant and always outpace GWF/GFs Flourishes.Shorten animation (or faster activation time,same thing) by 15-20%.
8.Griffon's Wrath.Same problem with Flourish.Plus that can be missed.While enemy classes have auto lock.
Make Griffon autolock.
9.Tactical Superiority:Curently adds a 5% bonus damage.Make it 2/4/6/8/10 per rank.
If that's too much dps for some :
Add 1/2/3/4/5% crit per rank plus the existing 1/2/3/4/5 bonus damage.
9.Menacing Impact:Curentlly adds 1/2/3/4/5 feet range to Villain's Meanace and 2/4/6/810% damage to both Terrifying Impact and Villain's Menace. Buff it to 3/6/9/12/15 feet and damage to 3/6/9/12/15%.Currently range is really to short.This is a pve power you ll have no cries from pvpers.
10.Plate Agility:Increase its deflect bonus to 2/4/6/8/10%.
11.Staying Power:Currently only 10% dr to your powers.Tide of Iron has 20%.So why to use it?
Buff it on par with ToI.20% at final rank.
12.Crushing Pin:Improve its duration from 3 secs to 5.
13.Make Griffon's Wrath affected by recovery.13 secs with 2400 recovery for a refill i think is too much.
Make each charge refill at 11 secs.
14.Crushing Surge:Fasten its animation.Remove the third hit animation is too ugly.Just place the second in its place.
Even better put the animation of Griffon's
15.Crescendo can be interrupted.This is should not happening."while attacking you are immune to control effects".Buggy for ever.Make Crescendo really cc resistant.
16.Flourish Animation again:Either make the animation cc or make it faster.Currently unusable against HRs.Interrupted all the time.
17.Iron Warrior:The temp hp are extremely low.I think they are 1k at max rank.make them 1,5k hp per IW rank.
These...
As all see i did not asked for any pvp based encounter /power damage increase.Just minor buffs and fixes.
Our obsolete heals should be buffed.Our animations faster.
And tactical superiority to add a 1/2/3/4/5 crit per rank.Comparing my suggestions to what other classes,mostly HR Combat,have ,i ask for very minor things.Please consider them.
N1 priorities should be our obsolete self heals and our really long animations.
That's why I asked for damage buffs to Conqueror for guys that don't want to use ITF/KV.
Venril- SW
Lurch- GF
Mini Ven- DC
I will support these changes because we all have to agree on SOMETHING but the problem will be Conqueror branch is still a joke for PVE DPS.
GF's will still be locked into ITF/KV for PVE.
Yes, some GF's will NOT use ITF/KV in groups and be higher on the paingivers, but really that is a stupid option because not only do they lose a 50-60% damage bonus, but the CW's, SW's, GWF's, and the other DPS classes lose 50-60% damage bonus and it's a slower group. That is, if they are not kicked in the 1st 5 minutes for not using ITF/KV.
Venril- SW
Lurch- GF
Mini Ven- DC
I agree that Conqueror and GF DPS in general need an increase, yet I also see that increase these Feats to provide Conquerors with a competitive DPS without using KV and ItF is all well and good, however increasing these does not also prevent the Conqueror from ALSO taking these increases and STILL using KV and ItF at the same time for a... what? 100% Damage increase?
Reckless Attacker: Permanently sacrifice 50% of your current Damage Resistance % and gain that % amount as an increase to Damage. In addition, gain a stack of Reckless Attacker each time you are hit which increases Critical Chance and Damage by 2%. Stacks up to 5 times.
I thought that would be a more accurate reflection of what the Reckless Attacker should be like, which forces the Conqueror to sacrifice some significant amounts of their survivability in exchange for a greater increase in their capacity to deal damage.
SUGGESTIONS:
Slotted with TAB: Constant uptime same bonuses as now (50% damage intercepted the damage reduction and threat building on top of it). When marking an enemy the party gets an additional 5% DR vs that enemy and the marked enemy’s damage is reduced by 5%.
Slotted in tray: Same bonuses as it has now with an additional 15% damage mitigation. But it loses its ability to be up all the time and instead lasts for 8-10 seconds with an ICD of 8 secs.
Slotted with TAB: Gives the entire party 40% temp hitpoint based on the missing hit points up to 15% of their max HP and the temp hit points drain in 5s. This should have a timer which starts when slotted and procs every 10s after that. So plyer X has 30K hit points. He gets hit and loses 15k. 0.4x15K=6000 but since it can only give back 15% of max hit points it will give 4,5k temp hit points for 5s or less if he gets hit again. So every 10s iron warrior checks party’s health and distributes temp hit points to everyone if needed. When marking targets everyone gets 5% stamina increase over 5 seconds and another 5s icd after that.
Slotted in tray: Same thing as it does now.
Slotted with TAB: Only applies to the marked enemy and gives between 50-100% damage increase for the GF and between 25-50& damage increase for the rest of the party against the marked target. The marked target deals 50-100% more damage against the GF and 25-50% more against the rest of the party.
Slotted in tray: Exactly the same as it is now.
Slotted with TAB: Regenerates AP up to 75% of max AP in 3minutes. Any player will get AP regeneration from it until they reach 75% AP after that it stops and start the regeneration process again next time the AP drops under 75%. So it checks every single player in the party every 2s or so. Also increases party run speed, slower than it is now, but allow the GF to get higher speed increase that the rest. When marking a target the entire party gets another 10% damage increase against all sources.
Slotted in tray: Same bonuses as it has now with two exceptions. First allow the GF to cast it while moving, and second give the GF higher run speed from it compared to the rest of the party. Acquiring and maintaining aggro is a lot easier when being first in to the battle.
COMMENTS:
PREVIEW
COMMENTS:
LINKS:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?785121-GF-Mark-Inconsistencies-amp-Bugs
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?786691-No-indication-that-Staggering-Challenge-procs
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?773431-Official-Feedback-Thread-Other-Balance-Changes&p=9390281&viewfull=1#post9390281
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?773431-Official-Feedback-Thread-Other-Balance-Changes&p=9394501&viewfull=1#post9394501
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?692701-Official-Feedback-Thread-Guardian-Fighter-Changes
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?772161-GF-Class-Advocate-Feedback
One thing I was mulling over while playing GF on the weekend was what I feel is a lack of responsiveness in tab-marking. It takes long enough to activate that I often find myself cancelling my own efforts to mark by taking another action, which means that what I want to do is mark then attack, but I end up only attacking. I don't know if it would be improved by making it a queue-able action, or if that can even be done. It might also just be me and middle-aged reflexes.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?773431-Official-Feedback-Thread-Other-Balance-Changes/page86
Thing its time to stand up felows from your chair and do what i do figth for our class.
Lol The % to be sacrificed is not a definite but a figure used as an example. I tried to look at the situation and identify approximately how much of a damage increase Conquerors actually need. From the testing i've done and the feedback from people i have spoken to, the general opinion seems to be that an increase of 20% to the Conqueror's damage would balance it out, if that was also used in conjunction with a general ~10% increase to the class damage overall plus increases in Critical chance % and Prone/Stun durations.
So, with that type of rework to the mechanics of the capstone, it would allow for greater flexibility in 'fine tuning' the damage of the Conqueror. Even a 20% sacrifice of DR % could yield a 9-10% increase to damage, which might be a suitably balanced amount.
Some good suggestions. In the main, GFs seem capable in PVP (except against certain classes...), yet their damage is far from consistent in comparison to other classes, where the GFs damage will tend to spike quite dramatically given certain circumstances. This apparent lack of consistent DPS does not seem to be offset by any increase to the mitigation and survivability of the GF. For example, the difference in average DPS between a similarly geared GF and, say, a HR is most often greater than the difference between their mitigation and survivability and seems to favor those other classes.
Not at all. That might happen to be a by-product of the concept, yet it is not the motivation. It also by no means prohibits the Conqueror GF from stacking Defence, toggling on KV and using ItF, for example. What I believe it may do is provide the much needed increase to DPS for the Conqueror, reflect the idea of the Reckless Attacker more appropriately, help to establish more firmly the role of the Conqueror Path as DPS orientated rather than as that of a 'Tank' and allow Conqueror GFs (at least) to have greater flexibility in their slotted Powers without sacrificing significant benefits to them.
What it does mean is that if a player wants to choose Conqueror as a Path then they must be prepared to deal more damage generally at the expense of survivability. This doesn't mean that a Conqueror can't 'tank', just that by focussing on DPS, their capacity to 'tank' is lessened. So, yes. It is likely that a DPS focussed Conqueror GF using this mechanic would make a pretty poor tank. Their tanking capability would likely be no better than that of any other DPS class. However, a mitigation and Hit Point heavy Conqueror using this mechanic would still make a very suitable tank but, as is logical to expect, they would not have the same survivability as that of a Protector for example.
As for comments regarding how mitigation has not really increased proportionally with that of damage over each Mod, I think it is good to clear up that mitigation works to reduce a % of damage received. This means the problem isn't so much that increases to mitigation are necessary for the GFs survivability to remain current, but rather it is the GFs Hit Points that need to be increased (somewhat) proportionally to increases of DPS.
Solution :
When the big hammer nerf came out they say its too powerfull now and also they say mybe they will implement it later .
I think the time have come to implement this set bonus.
A run speed buff is definitely needed.
Venril- SW
Lurch- GF
Mini Ven- DC
Blame the other fools, not the GF. If they rush, die, and cry, not our fault.
Yeah I know, but if they wait for us it slows down the run because we don't have movement speed up on the shift key. It would be nice if we at least had a chance to get to the fight 1st.
Venril- SW
Lurch- GF
Mini Ven- DC
When I'm tanking without KV, that is typically what I do to get in front of my speed demon teammates and let off an ET before anyone else gets the chance to aggro anything.
Now that's just hypocrisy if you ask for a GF to join the party and then complain about them.
Besides, the most heavily armored class in the game should not be as mobile anyway...
Venril- SW
Lurch- GF
Mini Ven- DC
Leave first. This isn't everquest, nobody needs a GF to tank the last mob until it dies. I usually start picking things up at 2 and leave camp at 1.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=du_4yi5d9ZQ
that is actually the best i could do...maybe i just suck
I'm surprised Astral Resonators didn't start flying all over the place.
+1 to this
I don't think you 'suck' at all. I've fought against Sicarius a few times and I remember him always being BiS and a good player.
Perhaps you could provide a bit more detail regarding your feedback?
I assume you are trying to demonstrate that GFs have difficulty against a TR in Mod5.
I assume you're equally similarly geared? Perhaps you could confirm what specs, gear etc. was being used?
It's a bit difficult to see in the video how much damage the TR was doing and what he was using and whether that damage was Blocked or not by you, levels of Crit and the impact of mitigation.
Not to diminish the value of your feedback in any way, yet would it be possible for you to produce a similar video with damage logs or ACT available please? I think hard data of some sort would be of enormous assistance to the Developers.
he died in 40 seconds, what is to be told?
his attacks didnt reach the TR at all.
because of 2 reasons: 1st the tr is skillful and 2nd: the TR has good mechanics of dodgin/stealthing and being immune ITC from any damage/prones/stuns.
this is actually a feedback brought on the idea the GF underperfoms against the new TR.
similar fights are between GWF and TR.
GF is good as it is now, maybe SMALL tweaks or adjustments to some things that didnt work as the tooltip .
i want to see a fight between CW and GF , and GF vs GWF.
those fights are more balanced IMO.
What i'm trying to highlight is that simply posting a video in that manner as 'feedback' isn't necessarily as constructive as it could be.
Consider it this way:
As to directly responding to your statements...I could post a video of a level 60 GF in BiS gear fighting a TR in level 10 gear and use it to demonstrate that GF are 'OP'. Similarly, i could post a video of a level 60 TR geared in Uncommon equipment and no enchants kill a BiS GF in the same time because the GF isn't Blocking any of the TRs big hits.
Simply posting a video without having available any other data does not really help all that much, particularly as there are a few 'bugs' already known about certain TR builds at present and if this was one of those types of TRs then it wouldn't necessarily be entirely relevant feedback then would it?