test content
Logo
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc
Options
Suggestion for a new "experience" system for Artifacts and Equipment
ironzerg79
Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,942 Arc User
So obviously this has been a hot topic since more Artifacts and Artifact Equipment was announced for Module 5. Over a month ago, I suggested a system where earned Experience could be used as a resource to help grow Artifacts and Artifact Equipment. The goal of such a system would allow people more freedom to build and advance their characters simply by playing the game. Right now there is an enormously high level of frustration as to how expensive and tedious it is to level your Artifacts and Artifact Equip.
Here is the new system I propose. First, Experience becomes a resource that is tracked on your Riches tab. Collecting Experience begins from day one. You don't need to be 60 to start collecting Artifacts, so you shouldn't have to be 60 to start collecting Experience. A simple mock up is here:
You can see at the bottom the Experience resource is neatly added to the bottom. The currency tab is already being revamped for Module 5, so I don't believe this is a major technical hurdle. Next to the Experience count is the "Use" button, exactly identical to the Black Ice resource.
When a player hits the Use button, another interface is brought up:
The Item Empowerment screen, again identical in function to the existing Black Ice Empowerment. The screen lists your available Experience points you can allocate, and lists all your equipped Artifacts and Artifact Equipment. If something is already at maximum rank, the equipment will be listed, but you will be unable to add more experience.
Now all you do is simply use the slider (or 100% to allocate it all) to decide how much experience you wish to add to the Artifact. If enough experience is added to enable the Artifact to "Rank Up", after the experience is allocated, the 100% button turns to the "Rank Up!" button, and you cannot allocate more experience until the Artifact is refined to the next level. Pressing the "Rank Up!" button brings up the traditional refining interface for this.
Now what's the ROI that justifies the change?
First, it allows players to focus on just playing the game, while still feeling like they have control over advancing their Artifacts and Artifact Equipment. Since nearly everything in this game gives experience, players can chose how they want to play and still make progress. They're not forced to feel like they have to "grind" a particular path in order to keep advancing.
And happy players are satisfied players. And satisfied players are you best customers, and advocates to new or potential customers. Bottom line: Happy players spend money.
Secondly, the current experience boosters become more relevant to post-60 play, meaning more players have more reasons to purchase these from the Zen shop. If you want to rank up an Artifact more quickly, you might purchase a large or huge experience booster to double the rate at which you receive experience to help speed up the process.
Third, it turns content that might otherwise be viewed as boring or repetitive into opportunities to earn more experience for your artifacts. Doing existing Campaign dailies even after you finished the Campaign could potentially become a lucrative way to earn experience for your artifacts, as well as running dungeon or skirmish content with friends or new players, even though you don't need any of the drops. However, the experience earned will go a long way towards improving your existing equipment.
Fourth, it's not something that 3rd party farmers and bots can produce and sell back to players. The experience you earned is earned via your own play. There's no way for farmers to monetize this, which takes away from Cryptic, as well as generally leads to less happy experience (via attempts to exploit) for players.
And Fifth, it's more satisfying to know that your power level is directly related to how much you continue to play. And as new Artifacts and Artifact Equipment is released, it's not as stressful to start to replace other gear by simply playing the game...and it also gives you an incentive to keep playing and building and experience pool in anticipation of new equipment.
I even think it's reasonable to make this experience pool account-wide to help (and encourage) people to grow their alts, and not make starting a second, third or tenth character seem like such a mountain to climb
Anyway, I'm sure the rest of the community can continue to come up with ways this alternate path to leveling Artifacts and Artifact Equipment would be a much welcome addition.
Please keep in mind I'm not advocating changing anything about the current Refinement system. Using equipment, stones and enchants is still a valid path to ranking up your Artifacts or Artifact Equipment. If you feel like you'd rather farm stones, or purchases stacks off the AH, that's totally cool. But multiple paths to advancement to help supplement is never a bad thing.
Here is the new system I propose. First, Experience becomes a resource that is tracked on your Riches tab. Collecting Experience begins from day one. You don't need to be 60 to start collecting Artifacts, so you shouldn't have to be 60 to start collecting Experience. A simple mock up is here:
You can see at the bottom the Experience resource is neatly added to the bottom. The currency tab is already being revamped for Module 5, so I don't believe this is a major technical hurdle. Next to the Experience count is the "Use" button, exactly identical to the Black Ice resource.
When a player hits the Use button, another interface is brought up:
The Item Empowerment screen, again identical in function to the existing Black Ice Empowerment. The screen lists your available Experience points you can allocate, and lists all your equipped Artifacts and Artifact Equipment. If something is already at maximum rank, the equipment will be listed, but you will be unable to add more experience.
Now all you do is simply use the slider (or 100% to allocate it all) to decide how much experience you wish to add to the Artifact. If enough experience is added to enable the Artifact to "Rank Up", after the experience is allocated, the 100% button turns to the "Rank Up!" button, and you cannot allocate more experience until the Artifact is refined to the next level. Pressing the "Rank Up!" button brings up the traditional refining interface for this.
Now what's the ROI that justifies the change?
First, it allows players to focus on just playing the game, while still feeling like they have control over advancing their Artifacts and Artifact Equipment. Since nearly everything in this game gives experience, players can chose how they want to play and still make progress. They're not forced to feel like they have to "grind" a particular path in order to keep advancing.
And happy players are satisfied players. And satisfied players are you best customers, and advocates to new or potential customers. Bottom line: Happy players spend money.
Secondly, the current experience boosters become more relevant to post-60 play, meaning more players have more reasons to purchase these from the Zen shop. If you want to rank up an Artifact more quickly, you might purchase a large or huge experience booster to double the rate at which you receive experience to help speed up the process.
Third, it turns content that might otherwise be viewed as boring or repetitive into opportunities to earn more experience for your artifacts. Doing existing Campaign dailies even after you finished the Campaign could potentially become a lucrative way to earn experience for your artifacts, as well as running dungeon or skirmish content with friends or new players, even though you don't need any of the drops. However, the experience earned will go a long way towards improving your existing equipment.
Fourth, it's not something that 3rd party farmers and bots can produce and sell back to players. The experience you earned is earned via your own play. There's no way for farmers to monetize this, which takes away from Cryptic, as well as generally leads to less happy experience (via attempts to exploit) for players.
And Fifth, it's more satisfying to know that your power level is directly related to how much you continue to play. And as new Artifacts and Artifact Equipment is released, it's not as stressful to start to replace other gear by simply playing the game...and it also gives you an incentive to keep playing and building and experience pool in anticipation of new equipment.
I even think it's reasonable to make this experience pool account-wide to help (and encourage) people to grow their alts, and not make starting a second, third or tenth character seem like such a mountain to climb
Anyway, I'm sure the rest of the community can continue to come up with ways this alternate path to leveling Artifacts and Artifact Equipment would be a much welcome addition.
Please keep in mind I'm not advocating changing anything about the current Refinement system. Using equipment, stones and enchants is still a valid path to ranking up your Artifacts or Artifact Equipment. If you feel like you'd rather farm stones, or purchases stacks off the AH, that's totally cool. But multiple paths to advancement to help supplement is never a bad thing.
"Meanwhile in the moderator's lounge..."
Post edited by Unknown User on
0
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
No change. The only difference is you also accumulate experience as a resource to spend on your Artifacts and Artifact Equipment.
I also think this is a valid idea as well - one i like.
If it was some sort of a mixed system - EXP and/or RP, that is optimal IMO.
This would not take the grind too fast either. 4.6M EXP is a TON of exp, but it does give EXP a nice use.
Everything you need to know about CW:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?780981-Chem-s-CW-Compendium-Everything-you-need-to-know
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
I could see them remaining separate systems, or linked. If separate then the Overflow XP would simply be a counter that would award the current items/points/whatever when you fill up the bar, but that XP bar is simply a counter of how much you have earned. That same XP would ALSO be going into an "Artifact Pool" to be used in the manner that Ironzerg suggests.
If they are a linked system then you would be presented with a choice. If you use the XP to level up an artifact then that XP would not be available to get rewards through the Overflow XP meter. And vice-versa, if you allow the Overflow XP bar to fill up and recieve the Overflow reward then that XP would be gone and unavailable for use in Artifacts.
Personally, I would prefer the second option, a linked system that forces you to choose where to spend that XP. While leveling it would not be in effect, you should not be hindered in your rise to 60 by leveling up an artifact, simply set it so that before lvl 60 you basicly get double XP, the normal amount goes to leveling up, and an equal amount goes into the artifact pool to be used. it takes 910,000 XP to hit lvl 60, which would give you enough earned AXP to level 1 artifact to lvl 76 (ish). Artifact equipment would not matter here as you can not get any until lvl 60 anyway.
I like the idea of "Choice" in this instance. It should be something that you have to look at closely and make a decision that matters (at least to a point), but not one that will "gimp" you in the long run. In this case I do not think it would be much of a problem to make the decision to upgrade the artifact, but for some lvl 60s it would mean forgoing a chance at an extra powerpoint which may assist the continued growth of their character, which is a GOOD thing. Do you want your toon to have more flexibility in power choices, or the increased benefit of an artifact? This choice would be moot for those of us that have already gotten all the powerpoints that we need, but that is an advantage for long term players that I consider reasonable and not game breaking.
You know MP, that's not a bad idea either. That way people can progress by playing how they choose instead of... mobs farms foundries or something like that.
Everything you need to know about CW:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?780981-Chem-s-CW-Compendium-Everything-you-need-to-know
As for overflow experience, that could simply be the first slider on the allocation UI. That would make the "choice" clean and simple from a usability standpoint and make it easier to implement from a technical standpoint. Regarding pre-60 play, I don't think it really matters all that much: you can get to 60 in no time in this game: if the UI only became available at level 60, so what? You don't need really powerful artifacts pre-60 anyway.
Edit: Oops, it's not in the DMG (that's what I get for relying on memory). I know I read it somewhere. Maybe Unearthed Arcana...
Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO
Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF
Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP
The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
My Foundry playthrough channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Ruskaga/featured
Im so confused o.o
I would add experience to PvP instead. Make it roughly equivalent to PvE. That way, players don't feel like they're forgoing buying PvP equipment to level Artifacts.
I've never pay much attention to it post level 60, but I know the experience for pre-level 60 PvP was really good for the time invested, and a nice way to take a break from PvE if you chose to.
I think something similar for post-60 PvP would be in order.
I'd guess he photoshopped them to show what the system would look like in the game.
The pictures are from preview. Th interface will be changed to that in module 5. Then the experience picture plus the text was merely added through any program such as paint.
I made them. I took in game screenshots, then used photoshop for the mock ups.
And in that regard, I purposefully chose the Black Ice system because it already exists. The code for the Riches tab, and the Empowerment tab can be repurposed for this. I understand that Cryptic only has so much bandwidth for sweeping changes, so I wanted to make sure as many pieces of the Artifact Empowerment system were already in place.
The game can already open an Empowerment window. It can already track which gear you're wearing and should show up, and it already has the mechanism for taking points from one bank and adding them to an item. And via the Overflow, experience is still be gained and stored somewhere. All you would need to do is some work to tie a new system into the Artifacts.
Exactly. Having weapons and equipment become more powerful in the hands of characters as they use them is a very, very D&D thing.
The idea that you build affinity with your equipment through battle and adventures is totally within the bounds of the lore. And in fact, I think it would make an awesome selling point to those who really look for a D&D experience.
Think of Drizzt. The weapons he wielded were very unique and iconic to him, and were very powerful in his own hands. I think this system could give people that particular feel for their own character.
First, the gains from Overflow experience aren't crazy good. Sometimes you get a Power Point, which is nice...but most times, it's just junk. I think people would feel bad if they used 250k exp to "level up" only to find they got a single Peridot out of it.
Plus, I want people to feel good about this system and excited to use it all the time. I don't want it to become a matter of trading off one thing for another.
The feeling of clicking that "Commit" button to add experience to an Artifact should be something fun, positive and exciting, and not something that leaves the player wondering if he made the "optimal" choice.
Sorry, last one then I have to help the wife with dinner.
If it was up to me, I would make the Experience pool shared across all toons on your account. After all, it's experience earned by YOU the player. Why shouldn't you have the option to spend it on alts to help them out.
Again, it's YOUR playtime. It should always be fun for YOU. Let's put some systems into place that actually make playing alts fun and rewarding!
The only real downside that I can see is that it would let lowbie twink PVPers to stay lowbie forever as they would just allocate their XP towards making 3 legendary artifacts instead of to leveling up their character. So instead I might say that when a character gets XP, then that XP still goes to leveling up one's character exactly as now, but then that XP (or some fraction thereof) also goes to the XP currency tab.
Good ideas, I support your topic and suggestions, and thanks for putting the time into it
There's no interaction between leveling, overflow and your Experience points. You still gain experience and level as normal. It's just that the experience also gets added to a pool of Experience that you can then use to power Artifacts.
A character who hits level 60 will have earned the required 910,200 points, as well as having that added to their Experience pool to spend as they wish on their journey to 60.
Also, I really really really love the slider option for allocating points. The current system of dropping five items at a time is tedious to the point of making it miserable. If you weren't a married man, I would throw myself at you right now.
Nice job on the proposal, great graphic presentation. I hope this gets some serious consideration.
i'll vote for this
Unfortunately there is no monetary incentive / $ kickback to PWE. Just letting you play the game and level your artifacts? without the hassle of farming for months / breaking down and buying zen?
For this to work, the xp required would have to be so astronomically high that it makes no difference or real impact on leveling artifacts, which is to say that it's a whole lot of coding changes for nothing. Just an allusion that you can level artifacts with xp. ie, by the time you've earned enough xp to level 1 artifact to 60 it's been made obsolete atleast once by several mods of content.
Now if they added a few more upgrade points (rather than just green>blue, blue>purple, purple>orange), say 6 total upgrade points instead of 3, and dropped the chance to upgrade to 1%, forcing you to use a coal ward ($$) each time, then yeah, i could see this getting implemented.
The difference you are missing, is that the leveling would come from playing the game. You wouldn't have to do anything different, you could run instances with friends, do quests, etc. You wouldn't have to farm - and I will call anyone who states they never made a dedicated effort to farm for their legendary artifact in the current system a liar straight to their face (they either farmed directly, or AH'd it). No farming foundries (except farming them for XP, which is already limited to uselessness), no sitting watching a movie while you sit and hold right click....
This would also have the best benefit of completely taking BOTS out of the picture of it (they could only level their own artifact for accounts they wish to sell, which I doubt is done by bots anyways).
That said, for some reason they decided to apply the most mind numbingly boring option I've ever heard instead of this. It also directly benefits the bots...which now they are trying to correct. So we all paid the price of the bots when they scripted the artifacts (insanely high RP only achieved through utilizing bots in one way or another), but were ok with it because the bots could still make legendary possible. Now the bots will be largely out of the picture, but the RP costs won't change. Its like charging $100 for a DVD because its a high piracy item, then fixing it so it can't be pirated and still charging $100.
and PS Since this has to be added for every post on the topic: No, nobody NEEDS this stuff. Nobody feels entitled to this stuff. Nobody is against WORKing towards legendary. But 1 - gear progression is critical in all MMOs and especially this one, and 2 - the work towards the legendary item should be FUN (isn't that why we "play"?).
This is part of it. A lot of the frustration is not coming from the fact that people want these Legendaries handed to them, but that they don't feel like they can make any progress via normal gameplay. It then turns into the perception of a total unfun grind, and they quit.
How much money does Cryptic get from players who quit? Zero.
How much money does Cryptic get from players who log in regularly, enjoy the game and tell their friends about it? A lot more than zero, I can guarantee you that.
The idea is not how does Cryptic make money off this ONE idea, but how do they continue to see financial success from the game as a whole.
The more time a player spends in a Free to Play game, the more likely they are to spend money. This system gives players an incentive to spend more time in the game, but does it in a "play and have fun the way you want" way, not a "you must grind your soul away" way.
Fun games earn boatloads of money.
Well, there is XP packs on the Zen market, yes? If those work for after 60, there's $$ right there for Cryptic for the folks who want to get their artifacts leveled and be done with it, much like with the refining stones. Just a thought.
I have many alts, I am a class and race rainbow.
I'm not missing anything here, you are.
The purpose of the refinement system is to make money.
It is intentionally tedious and the rp costs are intentionally ridiculous to get people to buy zen. They don't want you to be able to make significant progress through normal gameplay. It's an unachievable goal for casuals who don't spend $ on the game, they will never see legendary, yet it is, in the dev's mind, unlimited "content" for the free 2 play once or twice a week crowd.
It was, until recently, a significant AD investment for more regular players.
Whether it's for blood rubies or zax for the bazaar/flawless sapphire or simply buying them from AH for 1:1 ratio they want you to eventually give up and buy zen.
This only became an issue that they wanted to fix once the # of bots with dragonhoard enchants (achievable via scriptable normal gameplay thx to the ToD campaign) started flooding the market with ever decreasing RP. 5 and 6 to 1 was the norm which significantly cut down the need to convert zen to AD.
You can come up with a million and one ways to improve the Refinement system and make it better for players. Anyone can, heck any idea is better than what we have. You are starting from the worst possible implementation (for players) ever conceived by man. But that's the point.
What you don't seem to understand is that it's not supposed to be player friendly and you are not supposed to be able to make significant progress through normal gameplay. There has to be $ incentive to PWE.
If you want to improve the system you have to give something up. They are not just going to allow you to use xp and just play the game and improve your character.
How much money does cryptic get from players who quit? Zero. but this is 90-95% of the people who play this game. They play for a month or so and they quit and they never spend a dime. They are not the audience that the game is designed for.
How much money does cryptic get from players who log in every day and farm and jump through the hoops to try and make it honest and stay competitive without ever spending $ on the game? Also zero. They are also not the audience the game is designed for. You could argue that they actually cost cryptic money cus they spend nothing and eat up bandwidth but they are also "content" for other players which I believe at least equal's out their cost. by content, they are opponents in pvp, group members in pve, they are grinding it out exchanging their time for AD so that people with money but no time can buy it from ZAX.
The system is designed for people whom time > money who will open the wallet eventually and pony up not to be inconvenienced by thousands of hours of grinding. Whether its a mount purchase then maybe $10 bucks here or there all the way up to the whales throwing thousands of dollars a month at the game, this is who the game systems are designed for.
You must recognize this, and any solution you offer which takes away the tedium and frustration and pure carpal tunnel inducing madness of the current system must also include a $ feedback loop so PWE can get their due. If you want to be able to level arti's just via normal gameplay using EXP, then I suggested adding coal wards into the mix for the level ups. No more hours of clicking no more need to worry about bots, heck no more need for reso's stones or dragonhoard enchants. just use XP and pony up the tenbux or equivalent in AD every 10 levels of the arti and call it a day.
edit: This is not a p2w argument. The game is what it is. Your "solution" cannot take a profit driver and convert it to a non-profit driver. it's that simple.